Overwhelmed New Spa Buyer!

[GeneF]

My wife and I have been looking for a spa now for a few weeks. Most of our research has been online and visiting local dealers. We've taken wet test of Sundance, Hot Springs/Limelight. Everyone claims to have the best, and alot of stats are thrown towards said claims. We've learned alot, but it's quite overwhelming and sometimes confusing.

We liked the Limelight Flair the best so far, but I had a few concerns about it that I'd like some guidance on, if possible. 1. The warrantee is less than their sister Hot Springs models. Can't figure out why, if it's craftsmanship and maker are the same? 2. The Hot Springs has a 100% no-bypass filtration, while the Flair is at 65%. What does this mean and is it a problem? 3. I keep hearing arguments for and against foam insulation. If foam is not ideal for heat and sound than what system is? And who makes it?

The other model we wet-tested at the same time is the Hot Springs Sovereign. What we liked better about it was: the lower profile, the neck jets, and larger foot base. The advantages of the Limelight Flair, though, seemed much greater. 1. I found the lounge seat much better, with it's foot and calf jets, and rotating lumbar jets. The Sovereign had only one foot jet (in the middle, which makes no sense to me) and no leg jets. I also found the back massage unit in the Sovereign very uncomfortable. 2. The Sovereign has no true lumbar therapy, but the Flair has more than one and the variety was really nice. When I spoke to the dealer about this he said the only way to get lumbar massage was to sit in the foot well. It worked (only one jet though), but was very uncomfortable. 3. The Flair has two motors for 43 jets, but the Sovereign only one motor for 23 jets. 4. The variety of jets and massage options. I found I can move from seat to seat and work different areas. And the controls are available and individual at each seat and in some cases with each jet. This flexibility was really a great experience.

We are inclined towards the Flair, but wanted to know if there are other negatives we are unaware of and if the price was right. (These are the only two 5+ seaters that could fit in the space).

Both models were quoted to us for $6,795. Is that a good price? Please, we'd love to hear from users more than dealers, but all non-sales pitch info helps. Thanks for your advice and insight.

[Roger]

My wife and I have been looking for a spa now for a few weeks. Most of our research has been online and visiting local dealers. We've taken wet test of Sundance, Hot Springs/Limelight. Everyone claims to have the best, and alot of stats are thrown towards said claims. We've learned alot, but it's quite overwhelming and sometimes confusing.

We liked the Limelight Flair the best so far, but I had a few concerns about it that I'd like some guidance on, if possible. 1. The warrantee is less than their sister Hot Springs models. Can't figure out why, if it's craftsmanship and maker are the same? 2. The Hot Springs has a 100% no-bypass filtration, while the Flair is at 65%. What does this mean and is it a problem? 3. I keep hearing arguments for and against foam insulation. If foam is not ideal for heat and sound than what system is? And who makes it?

The other model we wet-tested at the same time is the Hot Springs Sovereign. What we liked better about it was: the lower profile, the neck jets, and larger foot base. The advantages of the Limelight Flair, though, seemed much greater. 1. I found the lounge seat much better, with it's foot and calf jets, and rotating lumbar jets. The Sovereign had only one foot jet (in the middle, which makes no sense to me) and no leg jets. I also found the back massage unit in the Sovereign very uncomfortable. 2. The Sovereign has no true lumbar therapy, but the Flair has more than one and the variety was really nice. When I spoke to the dealer about this he said the only way to get lumbar massage was to sit in the foot well. It worked (only one jet though), but was very uncomfortable. 3. The Flair has two motors for 43 jets, but the Sovereign only one motor for 23 jets. 4. The variety of jets and massage options. I found I can move from seat to seat and work different areas. And the controls are available and individual at each seat and in some cases with each jet. This flexibility was really a great experience.

We are inclined towards the Flair, but wanted to know if there are other negatives we are unaware of and if the price was right. (These are the only two 5+ seaters that could fit in the space).

Both models were quoted to us for $6,795. Is that a good price? Please, we'd love to hear from users more than dealers, but all non-sales pitch info helps. Thanks for your advice and insight.

Imagine a warranty cost 500 bucks per year. By offering a year less you can add 500 dollars worth of jets and another pump. More pumps and more jets does not neccesarily mean more water movement depending on alot of factors. If one is more comfortable to you then it's the one you should get.

[Country]

Very interesting to read your comments, as I am also in the market for a spa for the first time.

I think Hot Spring is an excellent spa in every respect but I am not sure if the value is there longterm. I plan to stay at my current home forever. One of my criteria is that the spa I buy has accessible parts, and can be repaired for decades. One person I spoke to said that Hot Springs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs, due to being fully-foamed. Is that true?

Just something to ponder.

[JerimiahR]

Gene,

Hopefully I can help answer a couple of your questions!

1) As Roger said, basically you pay for the extra warranty whether you realize it or not. Manufacturers literally have to set aside money based upon their warranty time frame, potential repair costs, etc. So because the Limelight models are a bit less expensive than the Hot Spring models, you get a shorter warranty.

As a Hot Spring/Limelight dealer I can tell you, the equipment inside the two spas is identical. Same heaters, same jet pumps, same 24/circulation pump. The life expectancy on the equipment inside a Hot Spring and Limelight are no different. However, to put the Limelight into the price bracket it falls into, the warranty isn't quite as long. Personally, I'd have no qualms with owning a Limelight. If you prefer the Flair model after sitting in it, you can't go wrong.

2) As far as filtration goes, the Limelight filters the same way 90% of hot tubs do. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it at all. The Hot Spring model line is very unique in it's 100% No-Bypass filter system. That's just not something you find with other manufacturers. It's something extra Hot Spring does as an added benefit on their Hot Spring model line.

3) Foam insulation is a huge ongoing argument between manufacturers and salesman. There are definitely different theories between companies. The Limelight and Hot Spring are insulated similarly, however the Hot Spring is going to be the more efficient between the two simply because it is a "full foamed" hot tub, using dense closed cell foam. Also, the Sovereign is generally hard to beat when it comes to energy efficiency anyhow.

In reality, the Limelight spa is insulated at least as well as the majority of hot tubs in the market. The Hot Spring on the other hand, is generally much better insulated than most major hot tub brands. The advantage with the Flair of course, is that it shares the 24/hr circulation system with the Hot Spring line, thereby filtering and heating at a lower energy cost than most spas.

It sounds to me like you really enjoyed the Limelight Flair, which is awesome. The details you gave on what you liked about it, tell me it's probably the best option for you. As a dealer, I sell more Sovereigns than most any other model. However, clearly seats and jets are opinion based. And you've obviously found that the Flair works better for you, so I'd suggest you go that route.

Price wise, as a dealer, I can tell you $6,795 is a great deal. I sell both models for more than that on a very regular basis.

[JerimiahR]

Very interesting to read your comments, as I am also in the market for a spa for the first time.

I think Hot Spring is an excellent spa in every respect but I am not sure if the value is there longterm. I plan to stay at my current home forever. One of my criteria is that the spa I buy has accessible parts, and can be repaired for decades. One person I spoke to said that Hot Springs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs, due to being fully-foamed. Is that true?

Just something to ponder.

Hi there Country. The truth is, a fully-foamed spa is more difficult to make plumbing related repairs. This of course is because the plumbing is inside the insulation of the spa. A large number of spas out there that really aren't insulated, are extremely easy to make plumbing repairs because you simply remove the siding on the hot tub. In those cases, the plumbing is just hanging there in front of you.

Our experience as a Hot Spring dealer since 1982 (we've also carried other brands over the years as well) is that the Hot Spring brand of spas develop leaks a lot less than other spas we've dealt with. The extremely vast majority of plumbing repairs we do are the direct results of poor winterization (or lack there of) on a customer's part. In other words, folks will drain their spa in the winter months, and leave it empty without actually blowing out the lines to clear ALL the water out. This is the same thing we have to do with our sprinkler systems in our lawns up here during winter. Otherwise, the water freezes and cracks plumbing.

Can it happen now and again? Sure, and it does with every hot tub brand regardless of how it's built. The advantage we've experienced, is that the fully foamed spa brands tend to leak less, in part because that foam actually holds the plumbing in place so it doesn't vibrate or move, which ultimately means the plumbing joints hold firm quite a bit longer. Also the plumbing doesn't get jostled around when the spa is moved around, which certainly can help too.

Fully foamed spas are typically more efficient due to the better insulation, which means they save you money over time. However, they can be a little more expensive/difficult to repair if they do leak. In my experience though, they tend to leak less often.

Ultimately, a consumer should weigh the differences between the insulation methods, the features they like on different spas, and decide what makes the most sense to them.

[Stuart A]

The Hot Spring model line is very unique in it's 100% No-Bypass filter system. That's just not something you find with other manufacturers. It's something extra Hot Spring does as an added benefit on their Hot Spring model line.

Not quite true my LA Spa has a 100% no bypass filter system.

[JerimiahR]

The Hot Spring model line is very unique in it's 100% No-Bypass filter system. That's just not something you find with other manufacturers. It's something extra Hot Spring does as an added benefit on their Hot Spring model line.

Not quite true my LA Spa has a 100% no bypass filter system.

Great! Looking at the LA Spa website, it looks like a select few of their models do have multiple filters, thereby allowing them to get rid of the footwell jet intakes.

It's a plus to have all the water filtered, rather than just most of it when the jets are on. But it's not something every person will find absolutely essential. Though some folks really like the idea of having all the water filtered before it comes out of their jets.

Happy 4th of July

[GeneF]

Gene,

Hopefully I can help answer a couple of your questions!

1) As Roger said, basically you pay for the extra warranty whether you realize it or not. Manufacturers literally have to set aside money based upon their warranty time frame, potential repair costs, etc. So because the Limelight models are a bit less expensive than the Hot Spring models, you get a shorter warranty.

As a Hot Spring/Limelight dealer I can tell you, the equipment inside the two spas is identical. Same heaters, same jet pumps, same 24/circulation pump. The life expectancy on the equipment inside a Hot Spring and Limelight are no different. However, to put the Limelight into the price bracket it falls into, the warranty isn't quite as long. Personally, I'd have no qualms with owning a Limelight. If you prefer the Flair model after sitting in it, you can't go wrong.

2) As far as filtration goes, the Limelight filters the same way 90% of hot tubs do. There's nothing necessarily wrong with it at all. The Hot Spring model line is very unique in it's 100% No-Bypass filter system. That's just not something you find with other manufacturers. It's something extra Hot Spring does as an added benefit on their Hot Spring model line.

3) Foam insulation is a huge ongoing argument between manufacturers and salesman. There are definitely different theories between companies. The Limelight and Hot Spring are insulated similarly, however the Hot Spring is going to be the more efficient between the two simply because it is a "full foamed" hot tub, using dense closed cell foam. Also, the Sovereign is generally hard to beat when it comes to energy efficiency anyhow.

In reality, the Limelight spa is insulated at least as well as the majority of hot tubs in the market. The Hot Spring on the other hand, is generally much better insulated than most major hot tub brands. The advantage with the Flair of course, is that it shares the 24/hr circulation system with the Hot Spring line, thereby filtering and heating at a lower energy cost than most spas.

It sounds to me like you really enjoyed the Limelight Flair, which is awesome. The details you gave on what you liked about it, tell me it's probably the best option for you. As a dealer, I sell more Sovereigns than most any other model. However, clearly seats and jets are opinion based. And you've obviously found that the Flair works better for you, so I'd suggest you go that route.

Price wise, as a dealer, I can tell you $6,795 is a great deal. I sell both models for more than that on a very regular basis.

[GeneF]

Thank you, Jerimiah, for your insight and expertise. It helps me a great deal. I spoke to the dealer again today and he mentioned the exact same things regarding the warrantee and the insulation. Makes a lot of sense. This is a nice forum and glad to see kind, helpful people as part of it.

My wife and I have been looking for a spa now for a few weeks. Most of our research has been online and visiting local dealers. We've taken wet test of Sundance, Hot Springs/Limelight. Everyone claims to have the best, and alot of stats are thrown towards said claims. We've learned alot, but it's quite overwhelming and sometimes confusing.

We liked the Limelight Flair the best so far, but I had a few concerns about it that I'd like some guidance on, if possible. 1. The warrantee is less than their sister Hot Springs models. Can't figure out why, if it's craftsmanship and maker are the same? 2. The Hot Springs has a 100% no-bypass filtration, while the Flair is at 65%. What does this mean and is it a problem? 3. I keep hearing arguments for and against foam insulation. If foam is not ideal for heat and sound than what system is? And who makes it?

The other model we wet-tested at the same time is the Hot Springs Sovereign. What we liked better about it was: the lower profile, the neck jets, and larger foot base. The advantages of the Limelight Flair, though, seemed much greater. 1. I found the lounge seat much better, with it's foot and calf jets, and rotating lumbar jets. The Sovereign had only one foot jet (in the middle, which makes no sense to me) and no leg jets. I also found the back massage unit in the Sovereign very uncomfortable. 2. The Sovereign has no true lumbar therapy, but the Flair has more than one and the variety was really nice. When I spoke to the dealer about this he said the only way to get lumbar massage was to sit in the foot well. It worked (only one jet though), but was very uncomfortable. 3. The Flair has two motors for 43 jets, but the Sovereign only one motor for 23 jets. 4. The variety of jets and massage options. I found I can move from seat to seat and work different areas. And the controls are available and individual at each seat and in some cases with each jet. This flexibility was really a great experience.

We are inclined towards the Flair, but wanted to know if there are other negatives we are unaware of and if the price was right. (These are the only two 5+ seaters that could fit in the space).

Both models were quoted to us for $6,795. Is that a good price? Please, we'd love to hear from users more than dealers, but all non-sales pitch info helps. Thanks for your advice and insight.

[RuBaDuB]

Thank you, Jerimiah, for your insight and expertise. It helps me a great deal. I spoke to the dealer again today and he mentioned the exact same things regarding the warrantee and the insulation. Makes a lot of sense. This is a nice forum and glad to see kind, helpful people as part of it.

However, also understand that there are many people on here pushing their own brand and will give you the same salespitch as your dealer. There are a lot of other people on here with tons of experience with many brands and will give you great unbiased opinions...now you just need to figure out who those people are!

[LWD]

shopped till we dropped...tech spec'ed everything...wet tested the top 4 choices that suited us and went with Hot Springs...

Personal choice I know, but the quality was superior!

[r5ran]

My wife and I have been looking for a spa now for a few weeks. Most of our research has been online and visiting local dealers. We've taken wet test of Sundance, Hot Springs/Limelight. Everyone claims to have the best, and alot of stats are thrown towards said claims. We've learned alot, but it's quite overwhelming and sometimes confusing.

We liked the Limelight Flair the best so far, but I had a few concerns about it that I'd like some guidance on, if possible. 1. The warrantee is less than their sister Hot Springs models. Can't figure out why, if it's craftsmanship and maker are the same? 2. The Hot Springs has a 100% no-bypass filtration, while the Flair is at 65%. What does this mean and is it a problem? 3. I keep hearing arguments for and against foam insulation. If foam is not ideal for heat and sound than what system is? And who makes it?

The other model we wet-tested at the same time is the Hot Springs Sovereign. What we liked better about it was: the lower profile, the neck jets, and larger foot base. The advantages of the Limelight Flair, though, seemed much greater. 1. I found the lounge seat much better, with it's foot and calf jets, and rotating lumbar jets. The Sovereign had only one foot jet (in the middle, which makes no sense to me) and no leg jets. I also found the back massage unit in the Sovereign very uncomfortable. 2. The Sovereign has no true lumbar therapy, but the Flair has more than one and the variety was really nice. When I spoke to the dealer about this he said the only way to get lumbar massage was to sit in the foot well. It worked (only one jet though), but was very uncomfortable. 3. The Flair has two motors for 43 jets, but the Sovereign only one motor for 23 jets. 4. The variety of jets and massage options. I found I can move from seat to seat and work different areas. And the controls are available and individual at each seat and in some cases with each jet. This flexibility was really a great experience.

We are inclined towards the Flair, but wanted to know if there are other negatives we are unaware of and if the price was right. (These are the only two 5+ seaters that could fit in the space).

Both models were quoted to us for $6,795. Is that a good price? Please, we'd love to hear from users more than dealers, but all non-sales pitch info helps. Thanks for your advice and insight.

Hi,

One thing that was not mentioned at all, is that the Hot Springs (and almost all quality tubs, so far)are made in the USA, while Limelights are outsourced by Watkins and made in Mexico. Were you aware of that? When I was shopping, once I discovered that, I crossed the Limelight off my shopping list. Unlike a automobile, it is not required to list where it is made, and I noticed many dealers and Hot Springs to their best to hide this fact. Try and find anywhere on the Limelight website that is stated.

While I don't expect Hot Springs dealers to not sell this product, I feel it's their responsibility to tell the customer this before hand. Dealers, do you? I know if I found out after I purchased my tub, that it was Mexican, I would be furious and would put a serious doubt in trusting my dealer, and wonder what was else didn't he tell me.

Just as Ford did when it built the Ford Fusion(and spent 3 billion on a new Mexican plant, while they laid off American workers and shutdown American factories), Watkins could have built Limelights at one of their current (and I am sure underutilized) facilities in the USA, but these traitors instead chose to go to Mexico only for economic greed. Now these millions of our dollars that build, maintain, supply the raw materials, and the labor to assemble Limelights are going out as pesos and staying in Mexico, instead of employing American workers, and helping to revive our declining manufacturing sector.

I truly hope that consumers get past the LED flash and glitz they have, and the Limelights division fails. Why?, because you know every other spa manufacturer is watching this, and if Limelights do well, it's just a matter of time they follow suit, and every USA hot tub plant is shutdown and our only future hot decisions will be to decide between Mexican or Chinese tubs. Hot tubs are one of the few choices we have left to buy American, but if we don't wake up, that will be gone soon. But the way this country is going, it won't be long before most Americans won't even be able to afford a hot tub anyways....

While the Sovereign was not one of my favorite tubs when I was wet testing, I do think you can do better and stay with an American tub....have you looked at a Tiger River Caspian? Also sold by your Hot Springs dealer.....not as glitzy as the Limelight, (doesn't anyone else think of all those multiple Limelights LED's as potential multiple future leaks?) but a solid great tub in the same price range.....

BTW, I did find this quote from this forum regarding Limelights.

No I didn't write it!

"Understand what Limelight is, its a low end spa built by a high end name. I know I will get hit for this but it is true. It is a brand that is really only a year old, it is not a tested brand. In that first year they have changed the insulation, delt with lighting problems, and worked thru mechanical problems. This spa was designed with low cost materials like metal frames and is being outsourced in Mexico to take advantage of lower labor costs.

It was intended to be a low end Watkins brand. Why do you think the salesmen talk about lights and not the other koolaid tactics that watkins is famous for.. It is a price spa only.. Sizzle and no steak.

It is backed by a good company, if it was not it would have failed allready.

I would never suggest that anyone buy a car or tv or any appliance in the first year or years it is made, hell we dont even know if it will make it past the warranty."

Ok, don't beat me up too bad for this...!

FYI -I own a Hot Springs Vanguard, and could not be happier with it. Not a single problem whatsoever , cheap to run, and a real quality product. and it was not much more than the Limelight Pulse, either, and more than worth the extra cash....

Randy

[spatech (the unreal one)]

One thing that was not mentioned at all, is that the Hot Springs (and almost all quality tubs, so far)are made in the USA, while Limelights are outsourced by Watkins and made in Mexico.

To be accurate, they are made in Mexico but they're still made by Watkins as Watkins has 2 facilities, one in Southern California and one in Mexico about 40 to 50 miles away from the California plant. "Outsourcing" is when you have another party build them for you. I understand the "lets buy American" sentiment but you have to be careful that you don't mis speak as I think the peson below did when he contradicts himself.

"Understand what Limelight is, its a low end spa built by a high end name. I know I will get hit for this but it is true. It is a brand that is really only a year old, it is not a tested brand...

I would never suggest that anyone buy a car or tv or any appliance in the first year or years it is made, hell we dont even know if it will make it past the warranty."

Hmm, I wonder who that quote was from? It would have been good if you'd added who it was but anyway, I find it odd that he states categorically that its a low end product and then says its only a year old and not tested. Which is it, low end or too new to be determined quality wise?

In reality the Limelight is built with a shell which is built the same way as Caldera and has the same controls, pumps, heaters as Hot Spring and Caldera. Limelights may be a step down from Hot Spring or Caldera to some degree that just seems like an anti-Watkins statement.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

One thing that was not mentioned at all, is that the Hot Springs (and almost all quality tubs, so far)are made in the USA, while Limelights are outsourced by Watkins and made in Mexico.

To be accurate, they are made in Mexico but they're still made by Watkins as Watkins has 2 facilities, one in Southern California and one in Mexico about 40 to 50 miles away from the California plant. "Outsourcing" is when you have another party build them for you. I understand the "lets buy American" sentiment but you have to be careful that you don't mis speak as I think the peson below did when he contradicts himself.

"Understand what Limelight is, its a low end spa built by a high end name. I know I will get hit for this but it is true. It is a brand that is really only a year old, it is not a tested brand...

I would never suggest that anyone buy a car or tv or any appliance in the first year or years it is made, hell we dont even know if it will make it past the warranty."

Hmm, I wonder who that quote was from? It would have been good if you'd added who it was but anyway, I find it odd that he states categorically that its a low end product and then says its only a year old and not tested. Which is it, low end or too new to be determined quality wise?

In reality the Limelight is built with a shell which is built the same way as Caldera and has the same controls, pumps, heaters as Hot Spring and Caldera. Limelights may be a step down from Hot Spring or Caldera to some degree that just seems like an anti-Watkins statement.

[JerimiahR]

BTW, I did find this quote from this forum regarding Limelights.

No I didn't write it!

"Understand what Limelight is, its a low end spa built by a high end name. I know I will get hit for this but it is true. It is a brand that is really only a year old, it is not a tested brand. In that first year they have changed the insulation, delt with lighting problems, and worked thru mechanical problems. This spa was designed with low cost materials like metal frames and is being outsourced in Mexico to take advantage of lower labor costs.

It was intended to be a low end Watkins brand. Why do you think the salesmen talk about lights and not the other koolaid tactics that watkins is famous for.. It is a price spa only.. Sizzle and no steak.

It is backed by a good company, if it was not it would have failed allready.

I would never suggest that anyone buy a car or tv or any appliance in the first year or years it is made, hell we dont even know if it will make it past the warranty."

Ok, don't beat me up too bad for this...!

FYI -I own a Hot Springs Vanguard, and could not be happier with it. Not a single problem whatsoever , cheap to run, and a real quality product. and it was not much more than the Limelight Pulse, either, and more than worth the extra cash....

Randy

I will say that I'm very glad you're so open with the fact that you own a Hot Spring product, and that you really enjoy it. However, be careful with the comments in regard to Mexico. They may sit well with some, but others may frankly become alienated by them. As a Hot Spring dealer, I do also sell the Limelight product line. And frankly, though I'm a Hot Spring lover to the core, the Limelight spas a a good quality product. As Spatech mentioned, they are manufactured by the same company. This means the same research and development team, same engineers, same suppliers, are putting things together for this hot tub. The construction is a little different, and the styling and features are different. However, it's the same quality (and same model) heaters, pumps, and internal equipment as you'd find in the more expensive Hot Spring model line.

It's simply put together by people on the other side of the U.S. - Mexico border. In fact, I was once told that the facility in Mexico is more impressive/modern than the one here in the United States. And I've toured the Hot Spring factory in Vista, CA. It was pretty impressive.

And the reason the Hot Spring sales folks talk about lights, is because that was part of the point with the "Limelight" model line. Many spas out there, have features like LED lights, and other bling type items. Hot Spring developed the Limelight line so that folks who specifically want those kind of things, can still buy a Watkins product. Just like Toyota and Lexus. I'm fine driving my Toyota, because I don't need/want to spend the extra money on the Lexus just to get the GPS and Leather seats. Otherwise, they're made by the same company. Doesn't mean Toyota is a poor quality product. The Limelight model line of spas is marketed toward a different customer. Not everyone falls in love with the Hot Spring Spas, not everyone falls in love with the Tiger River Spas, so they made Limelight. Some folks really love them, because of the lighting and the styling of the seats.

Frankly, there's a type of customer out there who could care less what the HP or GPM rating on a jet pump is, or what kind of insulation is inside the spa, or why this ozone unit lasts longer than that one. Sometimes someone wants something simply because it looks great, feels great, and they just plain like it. And if you have a customer who tells you they really love the lighting in the hot tub, because they think it would look great on their patio at night, why on earth would you want to shove CEC ratings down their throat?

I love the Limelight spas, because my customers enjoy them, and I know they come from a very reputable, quality and customer service driven company (Watkins). The Limelight spas may have been introduced last year, but they use the same internal equipment that has proven so reliable on the Hot Spring and Tiger River hot tubs for years. So we can presume a pretty decent reliability actually. The fact that they are assembled by folks in Mexico doesn't bug me at all. In fact, some of the hardest working folks I ever met were Mexicans who came to the US to work (I used to live in southern Arizona). And trust me, if you're concerned about American dollars flowing into Mexico, be glad. Because MANY Mexican families near the border shop our big box stores in the U.S. (Walmart, Target, Best Buy, etc). They drive up from Mexico to Tucson and Phoenix on a pretty regular basis to do their shopping.

A very large number of consumer electronics in fact are manufactured in Mexico these days. Take a look at your DVD player, and other such items. You'd be surprised. I myself, will intentionally try to find electronic devices manufactured in Japan, because they tend to be very high quality products.

Anyhow, I had to give my two cents. I think we as Americans should be very proud of our home grown products, but we should also be careful that we don't become prejudiced toward people of other countries.

And I don't think Hot Spring dealers go out of their way to hide the fact that Limelight spas are manufactured in Mexico. At least I don't. Folks ask me all the time, and I answer them with a smile.

[Roger]

One person I spoke to said that Hot Springs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs, due to being fully-foamed. Is that true?

Just something to ponder.

The guy you were talking to was flat out wrong. Hot Springs is no harder to work on than any other full foam tub. 98% of the repairs are in the equipment area of any brand. The way Hot Springs is laid out nice and neat and simple in the equipment area it makes it easier than alot of brands.

[Country]

One person I spoke to said that Hot Springs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs, due to being fully-foamed. Is that true?

Just something to ponder.

The guy you were talking to was flat out wrong. Hot Springs is no harder to work on than any other full foam tub. 98% of the repairs are in the equipment area of any brand. The way Hot Springs is laid out nice and neat and simple in the equipment area it makes it easier than alot of brands.

I believe he meant all full-foamed tubs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs. Your post suggests that Hot Springs has an easily-accessed equipment area, and 98% of all repairs occur in that area. Let's talk about leaks only. If a leak occurs, how does one go about fixing a Hot Springs or other fully-foamed model? Please advise as I'd like to know specifically how a leak is fixed in a fully-foamed spa. Thanks.

[LWD]

BE AMERICAN,BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever thought about how countries are developing now? They are riding the wave of our appetite for cheap goods.

Our money is going to places that often times do not like us, our money is building their infrastructure, our money is raising

their quality of life and education. Of course I'm not against that at all, good for them. But what about us? That is why we

should bring some balance back on our side.

[Roger]

I believe he meant all full-foamed tubs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs. Your post suggests that Hot Springs has an easily-accessed equipment area, and 98% of all repairs occur in that area. Let's talk about leaks only. If a leak occurs, how does one go about fixing a Hot Springs or other fully-foamed model? Please advise as I'd like to know specifically how a leak is fixed in a fully-foamed spa. Thanks.

I fix leaks by taking the equipment bay cover off and hopefully find a neat clean equipment area that it is easy to locate leaks in.

Most leaks occur in the equipment bay. So if we are talking about leaks only, and 98% are in the equipment area then there ya go.

There are several ways to go about leaks in the plumbing under foam. All techs think there way is the best. I use a hot wire knife to cut foam blocks out and remove foam to the leak with screwdrivers and several other tools. But because I only have fixed a few foam leaks over 15-20 years I don't get allot of practice. Usualy a line leak in the foam is from a freeze up and I preach prevention instead of repair because repair is so rare. How many foam leaks have you repaired? I haven't done a foam leak in a couple years. Locating them can be a bit tricky but allowing the water to leak down to the specific jet line location most times clues in the tech right away. Replacing foam is just like using a spray gun.

[bobm]

BE AMERICAN,BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever thought about how countries are developing now? They are riding the wave of our appetite for cheap goods.

Our money is going to places that often times do not like us, our money is building their infrastructure, our money is raising

their quality of life and education. Of course I'm not against that at all, good for them. But what about us? That is why we

should bring some balance back on our side.

thank your government for free trade....

[canadianrepairman]

One person I spoke to said that Hot Springs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs, due to being fully-foamed. Is that true?

Just something to ponder.

The guy you were talking to was flat out wrong. Hot Springs is no harder to work on than any other full foam tub. 98% of the repairs are in the equipment area of any brand. The way Hot Springs is laid out nice and neat and simple in the equipment area it makes it easier than alot of brands.

I believe he meant all full-foamed tubs are nearly impossible to fix if a leak occurs. Your post suggests that Hot Springs has an easily-accessed equipment area, and 98% of all repairs occur in that area. Let's talk about leaks only. If a leak occurs, how does one go about fixing a Hot Springs or other fully-foamed model? Please advise as I'd like to know specifically how a leak is fixed in a fully-foamed spa. Thanks.

in my experiance with hot springs its not just plumbing leaks you have to worry about its the shell cracking, unlike most of the other manufactures when a hot springs crack its a structural problem not a cosmetic.

yes they have good customer and dealer support but their parts; any thing from their jets to the heater to the pack is propriotiry and will cost you 3 to 5 rimes as much as most other brands when it come time to replace.

[JerimiahR]

in my experiance with hot springs its not just plumbing leaks you have to worry about its the shell cracking, unlike most of the other manufactures when a hot springs crack its a structural problem not a cosmetic.

yes they have good customer and dealer support but their parts; any thing from their jets to the heater to the pack is propriotiry and will cost you 3 to 5 rimes as much as most other brands when it come time to replace.

That hasn't been my experience at all.

[Roger]

in my experiance with hot springs its not just plumbing leaks you have to worry about its the shell cracking, unlike most of the other manufactures when a hot springs crack its a structural problem not a cosmetic.

yes they have good customer and dealer support but their parts; any thing from their jets to the heater to the pack is propriotiry and will cost you 3 to 5 rimes as much as most other brands when it come time to replace.

What a great way to slander a brand, "in my experience it's not just the plumbing leaks you have to worry about" No one said you had to worry about plumbing leaks except a competeing sales pitch. In my experience Hot Springs very very seldom have any plumbing leaks. So why worry about them when they are in the equipment bay if there ever is one.

[Trigger]

Salesmen who scare consumer about leaks in the watkins tubs are exagerting.

My brother in law has my old Tiger River tub ( A full foamed Watkins brand tub, made on the same factory floor as the other US Watkins tubs). This past spring he discovered a leak. He pulled the panel off, deduced it was from the water fall and reapired it himself in a few hours. It wasn't a big deal at all.

Now, I'm sure there are some repairs that could occur that could be a problem (maybe one that would require lifting the tub up and repairing form the bottom? ) but to be honest, the likely hood of that with a *QUALITY* full foam tub make it virutally non existent. And if it did occur, It's not the doom and gloom that unscruplious dealers would lead you to belive.

Search the net for yourselves, the only ones claiming it could be a problem are trying to sell you somehting. The actual users and owners of these products are thrilled with them.