Chas Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Did you read about that child recently who was sucked into a single filter suction on an older spa with the missing grate? His mother had the presence of mind to turn off the power as soon as she heard her child screaming and she saved his life. Is that the legacy you want to leave? You should also let folks know that the above incident was not with a Hotsprings spa. Your writting style gives the impression that the above incident involved Chas, or a product chas sells. Trigger, your point is well taken, and well made. There are occasional tragic incidents in which somebody gets hurt or even loses their life due to suction entrapment. These are usually chronicled in the trade publications as well as the news. It is very important to note that to date none have involved a Portable Spa. So far, they have always involved a commercial pool/spa combo, a commercial spa, or an in-ground spa built like a pool. What I mean by that is that these spas have a skimmer at the waterline, and suction on the floor just like a swimming pool. Some of the accidents occur because a maintenance guy leaves a valve in the wrong position, shunting all the suction to the floor drain. This can't happen in a Portable spa which has a UL or ETL listing. In fact it also can't happen in a home pool, home spa, commercial pool, commercial spa, or in-ground spa which has been built in the past ten years or so because the rules do not allow the drain fittings and the skimmer to be run on separate lines - just so this cannot happen. They now must be plumbed together so if one is off, the other is off. Other accidents revolve around pools or spas with damaged grates or 'anti vortex' plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East TX Spa Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Terminator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Gee Term. that looks to be a lot safer than the minimul standards (as they themselves state in their standards) of ASTM. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like there's no anti-vortex cover that can break off of an exposed suction fitting. I also dont see how a person could get their hair sucked into the flow of the suction. Terminator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Terminator Chris, you da man!! What a hoot! I was thinking about snapping a few pictures of a filter area on a Grandee, but they would not have communicated nearly as well as what you have there. And there is no way I was going to get any good-looking human butts to include in the picture today... And, lest any should be concerned, the wall between the filter area and the bathing area has three main areas of flow: the skimmer door itself, and two vent openings through which water can freely flow as needed to keep the thing that much safer, and to allow for the large water flow rates which the bigger pumps provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Chris, you da man!! What a hoot! I was thinking about snapping a few pictures of a filter area on a Grandee, but they would not have communicated nearly as well as what you have there. And there is no way I was going to get any good-looking human butts to include in the picture today... And, lest any should be concerned, the wall between the filter area and the bathing area has three main areas of flow: the skimmer door itself, and two vent openings through which water can freely flow as needed to keep the thing that much safer, and to allow for the large water flow rates which the bigger pumps provide. Chas, there is no end to your utter stupidity. It is not about whither or not any of you think it is safe, it is about what is written in the standard. If you spa is down the road, owned by the second owener and the stand pipe is missing, could a child pull off of the suction? In your spa? That is exaclty what happend with that old spa with a single skimmer basket, with missing pieces. It doesn't matter at all what a stupid spa saleman thinks or his even dumber friends. What matters is the way the ANSI standard is written. Quoted: 8.0 RETURN INLETS AND SUCTION OUTLETS 8.2.2 A minimum of two (2) suction outlets shall be provided for each pump and the suction outlet system, separated by a minimum of three feet (3) [91.44 cm] or located on two (2) planes; i.e., one (1) on the bottom and one (1) on the vertical wall, or two (2) separate vertical walls. These suction outlets shall be plumbed such that the water is drawn through them simultaneously through a common line to the pump. Unquote. And you like a fool who is trying to cover your ass, are telling people that "Other spas" have to have dual suctions???? You are truely a #### #####!! liar. 100% The minute you defended that scum bag Steve, I should have known that you have no ethics or morals. How many Hot Spring sales people does it take to keep the truth away from the public? No matter what you do this information is going to continue to be distributed to the public. It is gong to be in the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 No matter what you do this information is going to continue to be distributed to the public. It is gong to be in the media. Blah blah blah ba blah ba blah...sheeeeesh. Good luck Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted August 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I AM NOT A DEALER SO I HAVE NO BIASES. Just a newbie who has been looking for a spa and have thoroughly researched as many models and mfg as possible here in Chicago. While I think Jim the Jim needs to control his emotions a bit better in these dialogues, I agree with him that it seems to this layman that Hot Springs is in the wrong by not having any suction outlets. All others we have seen have them and based on my understanding ot how the pumps and filters work, they should have them. Plus, I personally think Hot Springs are overpriced based on the number of jets they offer vs. other mfgs like Artesian. I think HS is riding on their name and does not provide the best value for a consumers money. Just my thoughts. I am actually fully in control and incontrol of any forum I go to. I am getting these guys to show the world just how bad they are. As a consumer you need to read everything I write and understand it. These issuses are about greed and saftety. You will notice that they come back and attack me for building spas that conform to the ANSI standards, just like every other spa company in the United States and Cananda builds, with multiple safety suctions according the the rules. Hot Spring would not change the design, so they can continue with the same BS sales pitch that is based on improper design according to science and modern safety standards. This is the exact quote from the ANSI standard for portable spas. Quoted: 8.0 RETURN INLETS AND SUCTION OUTLETS 8.2.2 A minimum of two (2) suction outlets shall be provided for each pump and the suction outlet system, separated by a minimum of three feet (3) [91.44 cm] or located on two (2) planes; i.e., one (1) on the bottom and one (1) on the vertical wall, or two (2) separate vertical walls. These suction outlets shall be plumbed such that the water is drawn through them simultaneously through a common line to the pump. Unquote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 Also quoted directly from ANSI; The provisions of this specification are not intended to prevent the use of other designs provided that any variation from the specifications in this standard provide the required quality, strength, durability and safety for the intended use and are approved by the authority having jurisdiction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 29, 2006 Report Share Posted August 29, 2006 I am actually fully in control and incontrol of any forum I go to. I am getting these guys to show the world just how bad they are. Your showing the world something alright!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Your showing the world something alright!! Who wants to break the news to the resident looney tune that he's a NOBODY and will get nowhere with his toothless threats. He's been trash talking for YEARS. Speaking of trash... Oh...nevermind! Pull your head out of your butt Jimmy. There's a real world out there... Ever wonder why NO ONE has ever responded to your "spa challenge"?... CAUSE YOU ARE A NOBODY JIM AND YOUR OPINION MEANS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SMART PEOPLE!!! Did I make that clear enough ya think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumbleweed Posted August 30, 2006 Report Share Posted August 30, 2006 Chas, there is no end to your utter stupidity. It is not about whither or not any of you think it is safe, it is about what is written in the standard. http://www.selberg.org/~speed/erik_journal.html http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...sage-boards.htm http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...ory/factory.htm http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/general.htm http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/as.htm http://www.poolandspa.com:8080/upload/spa%20specialist.jpg Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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