waterbear

Taylor K-1515A FAS-DPD test kit for chlorine and Taylor K-1721 CYA test kit. All other tests needed (pH, acid and base demand, TA, and CH) are in your K-2106.

Would love to see what he said if you wouldn't mind posting it here. Also, If you feel you don't need this forum then let me know and I can remove you from the membership.

You misunderstood what you read. The caution was about mixing the actual chemicals. . Once trichlor is dissolved in the pool it becomes hypochlorous acid, cyanuric acid, and chlorinated isocynurates. If you add liquicd chlorine to a pool that had CYA in it you get exactly the same thing. If you are using trichlor in a feeder you can put the feeder on bypass before shocking or adding acid (another no mix combination!). If you are using a floater just take it out. ALL forms of chlorine, once dissolved become hypochlorous acid along with some other basically inert metal ions (sodium, lithium and/or calcium). If you are using a stabilized chlorine or have added cyanuric acid to stabilize a non stabilizied chlorine you will also have cyanuric acid and chlorinated isocyanurates present. In actual practice, you can add any form of chlorine to shock a pool that is running trichlor without bypassing or taking out the trichlor. Just don't pour the shock next to the skimmer, drain or floater and make sure the pump is running. It's always a good idea to predissolve a powder shock in a bucket of water and 'walk" it around the pool as you pour it in.

No way to lower the calcium hardness of the water without using an ion exchange resin (which is what your water softener does). The calcium can be chelated with a metal sequestrant but that would require adding a weekly dose and it does not remove the calcium, only temporarily make it chemically non reactive so it does not precipitate out as scale. It is MUCH better to fill wilth soft water if it is available to you and then bump up the calcium hardness to around 120 to maybe 150 ppm to minimize foaming. (Very soft water is more prone to foaming because of organics in the water (from bathers) than slightly harder water.)

Also, "shock" is not a product. It is something you do to oxidize combined chloramines.

1) no need to be rude 2)no you don't understand the chemistry or you would have worded your question differently 3) I believe that you are asking what oxidizers (shocks) you can use with trichlor that will not add more CYA to the water. The answer is that you can use any form of unstabilized chlorine or you can use MPS., Unstabilized chlorine sources are sodium hypochlorite (liquid pool chlorine or chlorine laundry bleach), Calcium hypochlorite (cal hypo), or Lithium hypochlorite (lithium shock). You do not want to use dichlor (Dichloro-S- Triazinetrione) since it adds CYA faster than trichlor does. Trichor adds 6 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm free chlorine added, dichlor adds 9 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm free chlorine added. Also, take note that cal hypo adds 7 ppm Calcium for every 10 ppm added which can also be a problem. 4) if you understood the chemistry then you would have realized that @RDspaguyDID answer your question and, in fact, if you understood the chemistry you would not have asked the question in the first place. I hope you find this useful. I deleted your post in the other (11 year old) thread so all your answers will be in one place.

It's 1,3-dichloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin and from what I know from reading the abstract of the patent it does test as mostly total chlorine because of a possible interaction between the hydantoin and the DPD reagent used in testing for chlorine.. Hydantoin stabilized bromne has a very long life in a spa and I assume that hydantion stabilized chlorine is similar.(which is why a bromine spa has to be totally drained and refilled when converting to chlorine while plain sodium bromide, as used in some pool algaecides, will eventually be degraded by sunlight and the pool becomes a chlorine pool within a few weeks). Well, I disagree, but whatever toots your kazoo... 😉 Testing water can be a fun hobby!

All aqueous (water based) solutions have a pH. Do you mean the pH was very low? What was the number and how was it obtained? (strips, liquid reagent read in a color comparator, direct pH meter, colorimeter reading a strip, disc or vial?) Black oil on bottom of what? Copper can produce dark stains on some surfaces (i.e. fiberglass) but ususally stains blue to green. Not sure what you mean by black oi (copper). Do you mean pH UP or pH DOWN. This is important. First step, post a FULL set of test results NOT done with strips. Include a test for copper if possible. Post it along with details on your pool (size in gallons, above or in ground, sanitizer used-trichlor tabs in a feeder or floater, calcium hypochlorite, dichlor, Salt water chlorine generator, etc., pool suface-plaster, fiberglass, vinyl). This way we can better tell what is going on in your pool and then advise you. However, based on what you have described I suspect this is what happened: Your pH crashed dangerously low (probably because of use of trichlor tabs in a floater or feeder) and total alkalinity was not maintained high enough for trichlor (probably because you are either not testing or testing with strips, which are useless for balancing water). The low pH damaged the copper heat exchanger on your heater and leached copper into the water You added pH increasr which caused the copper to precipitate out of the water as copper carbonate and possibly also copper sulfate if you regularly use a non chlorine shock. This is the blue cloud that is clogging your filter and is actually a good thing because the copper is in a form that can be filtered out. Bad news is that your filter will quickly clog. If you have a sand filter it means backwashing. If a cart you need to clean it whenever the filter pressure rises 8 PSI above baseline. If DE backwash and then recharge to prevent fouling the grids. Once you get all the copper out you will need to change out your filter medium (new sand, new card, breakdown and full recharge of DE) However, let's take this a step at a time and the first step is the test results.

It's a copper based algaecide, not a primary sanitizer, and needs to be used with chlorine for a sanitized spa. FW)W, copper stains. Green hair is caused by copper in the water. I would not recommend it. It's basically just copper sulfate and the EPA registration is generic for the pesticide/algaecide copper sulfate.

Also, a fun fact that you are probably not aware of. High sanitizer levels can and will beach out both DPD testing with liquid or tablet/powder/disc reagents and strips that use DPD or syringaldazine for testing sanitizer leading you to believe that sanitizer levels are low or non existent when in reality they are high This is why I recommend the Taylor K-2006 and K-2106 test kits because they use the FAS-DPD test for sanitizer which does not suffer from the same problem.

Couple of things going on. Your spa is overstabilzied so the chlorine can't kill which allows "nasties" to grow in the plumbing which further eats up any chlorine that is added very quickly, as you are seeing. The reason you had the same problem with bromine is because of the biofilm that is probably nicely entrenched in the plumbing when you switched over was doing the same thing to the bromine. From your description it sounds like you were using 2 step bromine (no bromine tabs in floater, just sodium bromide and an oxidizer). Added to that you are using test strips which are useless for water balancing. Period! End of story. With a 250 gallon spa you don't have a lot of margin for error in water testing and balancing with a 2 bather load! (In fact there really is none.) Get a Taylor K-2006 if you are staying with chlorine and switch to the dichlor/bleach method. If you go the bromine route do 3 step bromine band get a Taylor K-2106 for bromine. There are pinned posts in the spa water chemistry section of the forum. Read them. How are they testing? Liquid reagents, a disc read in a machine? Do you get a computer printout? Here's a little secret. Those testing machines and computer printouts are optimized to sell you as many chemicals as possible. Not saying that all pool store testing is bad but many of the people in pool stores that are testing water really don't have a clue. Also, when balancing water (such as when lowering TA) a LOT of testing needs to be done possibly every hour or so to monitor the progress of the procedure so pool store testing just isn't practical for water balancing either. A good test kit is the BEST investment you can make in your spa and the most important piece of equipment you can have. This is dichlor. For every 10 ppm of FC you add with dichlor you are adding 9 ppm of CYA (cyanuric acid). A tub on only dichlor quickly becomes overstabilzed, the chlorine stays bound to the CYA and is unavailable to fight the 'nasties' in the water that form biofilm, keep the water sanitized, or oxidize organic matter (Every bather introduces urine, feces and sweat, which is chemically almost identical to urine, into the tub and when you only have 250 gallon of water and 2 bathers that a lot of organic matter so the overstabilized chlorine doesn't stand a chance.) You need to follow @RDspaguy's advice and purge, possibly more than once.

YOU WIN!!!!! (Even though the 60k was just one pool at the facility. There was also a 55K 'family pool' -swim diaper leak and fecal shutdown almost daily, 2 1K hot tubs with cart filters in pits, and a 1K kids 'splash area' with deck jets, overhead water features, and deck drains to an underground water tank, also with a cart in a pit! A haven for fecal closedowns ! Even with all that you STILL win! ) 😎

Neither did I initially. The plumbing is a nightmare, IMHO. For a system that complicated you would think the builder would create manifolds instead of a spider's web of pipes and valves.

I would much rather test water than brush and tiles soap the waterline of a 60k gallon commercial pool, clean out and recharge a pit DE filter, or get a peristaltic acid pump adjusted (all of which I've had to do in the past). By comparison, water testing IS fun!

It is also easy, inexpensive, and is basically how many commercial pools are maintained (except they use peistaltic pumps to dose the liquid pool chlorine (still bleach but just double strength) and the muriatic acid. When you are ready check back and I will give you some tips. Once again, the test kit is the most important part and the one that I recommended is easy and accurate (and it's sort of fun too).

As I said when I first looked at it I didn't have time to study all the photos but I have noticed that the pool has "floor returns" which could just be returns or part of an in floor cleaning system, which is pressure side). Also I saw the Pentair Rainbow trichlor feeder which makes me think that the Smartpure is ozone. Without a full schematic of the plumbing (or maybe more pictures to get a better idea of all the valve and where they go, along with all the equipment plumbed in it's difficult to really say what needs to go where. I will print out the pictures tonight or tomorrow and try to see what goes to where as best I can but this is a more complex arrangement than even My pool! 😁 Best I can tell it's a pool/spa combo with shared filtration, trichlor feeder, ozone(?), blower for the spa, possible in floor cleaning system, and, as best I can tell, a shared heat pump and a DE filter.

My pleasure. Just tell me where to send the bill! 😄😉

I can't make out the valve labels in the vicinity of your chlorinator/filter/ heater . Also, is your Smartpure system a salt or ozone system (Bluehaven make both and I can't really tell from the picture. These are their proprietary systems.)

NO! The main drain is on the suction side of the pump, not the pressure side. It cant be used as a return! The valve arrangement allows you to distribute the suction (water flow to the pump) between the main drain, 2 skimmers, and a dedicated suction cleaner port. I don't have the time right now to study the photos but I will and post what the valves do and where to set them in the next day or two.

I agree. Even a kiddie pool needs sanitizer, pH adjustment, and chlorine stabilizer or you will be dumping and refilling daily. Fun fact, everyone entering the pool adds fecal matter, urine, and sweat (which is almost identical to urine in chemical makeup) to the water no matter how clean they THINK they are which is why you want a fast acting EPA approved residual sanitizer. For pools there are three in the United States, Chlorine, Bromine (not suitable for outdoor pools since it cannot be stabilized against destruction by sunlight) , or biguinde/peroxide systems which are expensive and are usually sold to unsuspecting misguided people who want a chlorine free pool. Once they start having problems with pink slime, white water mold, and goo they usually switch to chlorine. Peroxide is NOT a sanitizer, it is an oxidizer so it is not suitable for swimming pool use as a primary sanitizer. Metal ions are not a primary sanitizer and require the use of chlorine wit them so why bother. Silver and MPS (Nature 2) is only a sanitizer at the hot temperatures found in spas and, while Nature 2 is available for pools it still requires the use of chlorine so why bother?

any pool can leak or collapse if not set up or maintained properly. For that matter both fiberglass and gunnite (concrete) inground pools have been known to pop out of the ground! and both ingound and above ground vinyl liner pools can suffer from tears or leaks in the liner. No but you do need to learn some basics. Search the internet for the BBB (Bleach, Borax, and Baking Soda) method of pool water care, The PoolForum is a good place to start since it has special sections for inflatable and Intex pools. Depends on local zoning. Depends on the slope. Contact the manufacturer of the pool and ask.

You shock (super-chlorinate) when combined chlorine tests at .5 ppm or higher when using a good drop based test kit (NOT strips) A pool is a pool is a pool. If you are using chlorine then you need to test the water with a good kit (I recommend the Taylor K 2006) and adjust your chemical levels accordingly. It doesn't matter if the pool is a 60,000 gallon plaster surface pool, a 20,000 gallon fiberglass, or a 6000 gallon inflatable. The water chemistry is the same and, in fact, is a bit more difficult to maintain in a smaller pool. Usually but some will get you by for a year or two if you don't mind long pump runs and frequent filter cleaning. Depends, many inflatable and above ground pools come with very undersized pump and filter combos that require constant cleaning and attention. It also depends on whether you get a sand, cartrigde or DE filter since the maintenance is different for each. It's not the bottom that is usually brushed, it's the sidewalls. Last time I brushed my pool was prbably some time last year (and mine is open year round since I'm in Florida). It depends on what falls into the pool, how well you maintain your chemical levels, and many other factors. Basic chemicals needed for a chlorine pool are liquid chlorine laundry bleach, baking soda (TA increaser), Muriatic acid or dry acid for lowering pH, and chlorine stabilizer (cyanuric acid) . You can get everything you need at the grocery store except for the stabilizer. You will need to go to a pool store, Walmart or big box store to get that. I would not recommend using chlorine tabs in a floater because they add stabilizer with use and a small pool will quickly become overstabilized and you will start having problems with algae and other problems. The only way to lower stabilizer is by doing a series of partial drains and refills. Using bleach or liquid pool chlorine (both are the same except for the strength) will eliminate this problem but you will have to add a small amount of liquid chlorine daily. You will also need a good test kit. Get a Taylor K-2006. It will probably be the most expensive item you will need but will save you a lot of money and headaches. Here are some videos from the Taylor Technology website that show the kit and how to use it. It's not hard. https://www.taylortechnologies.com/en/page/231/k-2006-complete-kit-with-fas-dpd You will probably need to order it from Amazon or an online pool supply since most local pool stores only stock the K-2005 if they carry Taylor kits. The K 2005 is a bit less expensive but it uses the DPD chlorine testing method that is not as easy as the FAS-DPD testing method used in the K-2006. and can be prone to bleachout and some other limitations. All other tests in both kits are identical. It is well worth getting the k 2006 since it makes the testing so much easier with less chance of errors or interference from too high sanitizer levels.

If there are metals in your water then yes. It is a preventative rather than a cure. As I said it will chelate the metal ions so they are less likely to stain or precipitate out when used regularly.

If it's the or-ring between the pump and the wet end (where the skimmer basket is) it's a SAND FILTER PUMP MOTOR INLET O-RING2 part # 114571. There is a parts diagram in the manual for the pump/filter combo but if you don't have the manual here is a link to it. https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1XRD26zxLS.pdf Intex parts usually have to be ordered from Intex directly: INTEX RECREATION CORP. 1665 Hughes Way, Long Beach, CA 90810 1-800-234-6839 (310) 549-2900 : www.intexcorp.com (U.S./CANADA ONLY)

Ph = 7.6, 7.6 perfect Free Chlorine = 6.0, 3.04 Maintain at 4 to 6 ppm, if you add 50 ppm borate then you can maintain at 3 to 5 ppm Combined Chlorine = 0.5, .36 perfect, IF CC is above .5 ppm you need to shock, either use bleach or your cell Total alkalinity = 70, 68 good for a salt system. Keep it between 50 to 70 ppm. Calcium hardness = 240, 222 good for fiberglass IMHO. There are those that say you don't need to worry about CH with a fiberglass pool but there is some empirical evidence that CH of 200 or higher does help prevent iron stains and cobalt spotting, which fiberglass is prone to. You want to avoid high CH because it can cause both scale deposits which are very difficult to remove from fiberglass without causing damage AND because calcium deposits in your salt cell will necessitate acid washing the cell and can shorten its lifespan. FWIW, My T-15 cell was installed in 2005 and is still working (average life span is 3 to 5 years) and my pool is open year round since I am in Florida. CYA = below the lowest Taylor range of 30, 2 THIS SHOULD BE 80 PPM! GET IT UP THERE ASAP AND ADJUST YOUR PERCENTAGE DOWN TO MAINTAIN FC AT 4 TO 6 PPM. No or low CYA WILL shorten cell life and will also possibly necessitate needing to shock to maintain CC at or below .5 ppm. Saturation index = 0.05, 0.1 This is excellent. Personally, I like to run a slightly negative saturation index in a fiberglass pool with a salt system to minimizes calcium deposits in the cell. Additional store results are: zero for copper, iron, nitrates and dissolved solids, 917 for phosphates, 3027 for salt vs 3200 on Hayward control box readout Depending on how the store software is set up and which spindisc they are using the 0 results might just mean that certain tests were not done. Phosphates are a non issue, don't get suckered into phosphate removers. The Hayward readout is reading conductivity, the store test is a chemical test for chloride ions (which will give a slightly different results) or is done with a handheld conductivity meter that might or might not be calibrated.. These results are close enough.