Stevie Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 Looks bad to me. I would have thought by now most manufactures realize that 90's are very poor plumbing practice, reduces flow and increases noise. Only a poor design if utilized on the pressure side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 No one else does what? Use barbs and clamps? There are plenty of spas that utilize barbs and clamps. No one else uses barbed fittings with the pvc flex pipe over top on a large diameter pipe that recieves a lot of pressure. On a pressure side pipe is glued into fittings to eliminate friction and drag. 104 Im not saying its all bad I just dont agree with the way they have the 90 and other fittings on the interior of the pipe like Steve mentions when its used on the pressure side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Cub Posted August 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 No one else does what? Use barbs and clamps? There are plenty of spas that utilize barbs and clamps. No one else uses barbed fittings with the pvc flex pipe over top on a large diameter pipe that recieves a lot of pressure. On a pressure side pipe is glued into fittings to eliminate friction and drag. 104 Im not saying its all bad I just dont agree with the way they have the 90 and other fittings on the interior of the pipe like Steve mentions when its used on the pressure side. How old is this pic? I dont recall seeing any 90's in my tub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meriflower Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 No one else does what? Use barbs and clamps? There are plenty of spas that utilize barbs and clamps. No one else uses barbed fittings with the pvc flex pipe over top on a large diameter pipe that recieves a lot of pressure. On a pressure side pipe is glued into fittings to eliminate friction and drag. 104 Im not saying its all bad I just dont agree with the way they have the 90 and other fittings on the interior of the pipe like Steve mentions when its used on the pressure side. How old is this pic? I dont recall seeing any 90's in my tub! Don't know but Arctic currently has it pictured on their website: http://www.arcticspas.com/index.php/en/show_content/2/43/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted August 3, 2007 Report Share Posted August 3, 2007 No one else does what? Use barbs and clamps? There are plenty of spas that utilize barbs and clamps. No one else uses barbed fittings with the pvc flex pipe over top on a large diameter pipe that recieves a lot of pressure. On a pressure side pipe is glued into fittings to eliminate friction and drag. 104 Im not saying its all bad I just dont agree with the way they have the 90 and other fittings on the interior of the pipe like Steve mentions when its used on the pressure side. 90's will work on the pressure side as long as they are sweep 90's and you keep them to a minumum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted August 4, 2007 Report Share Posted August 4, 2007 Not a big fan or artic spas either (they do make one hell of a cover). But anytime a dealer says they fired a manufacturer it usually means they couldnt get spas because they couldnt pay there textron (the financing company who buys spas for dealers) bill and were having problems...but these issues shouldnt look bad on artic even though in my eyes they are priced in same catagory as d1, hot springs and sundance (even though they arnt at level they used to be) and arnt on same level of spa but its my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Cub Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Not a big fan or artic spas either (they do make one hell of a cover). But anytime a dealer says they fired a manufacturer it usually means they couldnt get spas because they couldnt pay there textron (the financing company who buys spas for dealers) bill and were having problems...but these issues shouldnt look bad on artic even though in my eyes they are priced in same catagory as d1, hot springs and sundance (even though they arnt at level they used to be) and arnt on same level of spa but its my opinion. The dealer is a developer and got into tub business because he had space and bought a tub himself......you know, money to burn....didn't really care about this side of things..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Thank you pathfinder,stevie. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Cub Posted August 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 Update: Service tech. was out; replaced light fixture. As of this am. All issues are solved but one, My lifter bar is still bent, tech. has said he would call lifter manufacturer to see if he can get parts for Lifter. The old dealer, and the newer dealer have not called me to follow-up or help me with this issue that they know exists. Of course in the scheme of things, Artics lifter is a covered item in Canada, but not their US version, which they say is an after market product; even though it has their stamp on the cover and do not tell you anywhere that it's (lifter) after market. They are using the business loophole and ducking on this topic; which is not good customer service, no matter how they want to word it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 10, 2007 Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I believe Leisure Concepts makes the lifter and designed a special side bracket for Arctic just as they did for Hot springs and Bullfrog. Unless Im wrong about that. Call Leisure Concepts and find out if they can do anything for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Cub Posted August 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2007 I believe Leisure Concepts makes the lifter and designed a special side bracket for Arctic just as they did for Hot springs and Bullfrog. Unless Im wrong about that. Call Leisure Concepts and find out if they can do anything for you You are correct, but they won't talk to me...said to go through dealer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 > Now I remember partially why I bought an Arctic Tub. Professional and Sincere Sales Guy! > I will call him next week and he will have answers for how to handle this after talking to Arctic - I feel 100x better already and he hasn't done anything yet. Back from vacation and trying to catch up. The new dealer in Fredericksburg, VA has taken over for the dealer in Manassas and will be handling service for those customers. Another customer in a similar situation wrote, "I finally made it down to the new Fredrick [sic], VA store - What a remarkable difference in retail areas, My son (10) even commented why didn't we buy the spa from here - its CLEAN! Mr. Frank Liso and my family had a very nice conversation and I look forward to being his customer for the foreseeable future." I do apologize for the length of time we are taking but I assure Arctic Cub and others following the thread that we are working at resolving these issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 The new dealer in Fredericksburg, VA has taken over for the dealer in Manassas and will be handling service for those customers. Another customer in a similar situation wrote, "I finally made it down to the new Fredrick [sic], VA store - What a remarkable difference in retail areas, My son (10) even commented why didn't we buy the spa from here - its CLEAN! Mr. Frank Liso and my family had a very nice conversation and I look forward to being his customer for the foreseeable future." I do apologize for the length of time we are taking but I assure Arctic Cub and others following the thread that we are working at resolving these issues. You go Tom!! John 104 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 This pic is from Arctic own page The 90 degree elbow is in the return side, not the pressure side. I am unable to determine the age of the photo, but some current models are plumbed as shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Vibration from pump torque on the hoses was known a long time ago by many manufacturers, thats why the piping is put on barbed fittings, glued, then clamped and pipe joints are glued on the inside of the fittings instead of outside the fittings as what Arctic does. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out the piping would come loose as it is only glued and the force water hitting the fitting would in time work loose and cause a leak. Barbed fittings and clamps are necessary with vinyl tubing, which tends to soften and expand when warm. The heavier reflex torsion hose (also called shur-grip) used in Arctic Spas is attached in accordance with the specifications of the supplier, TekTube. This method is used for high-pressure agricultural sprayers so those specs exceed the requirements of our hot tubs. (Based on information supplied by James Keirstead, one of Arctic Spas' owners. Any errors in the description, however, are entirely mine!) According to this link, this method offers improved flow: Shur - Grip spa flex pipe...glues over the outside of 2" / 50mm spigot fittings (or 2" / 50mm) pipe. ( Standard spa flex glues inside spigot fittings such as elbows, unions, etc. Special spigot elbows, and fittings are available for use with Shur-Grip. Shur-Grip advantage - significantly improved flow rates due to the wider internal bore.... Further advantages cited by TekTube include # No clamps required # Improved glue joint performance when used with the Waterway Shur-Grip fittings # No kinking or ovaling to restrict water flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 You go Tom!! But, John, I just got back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 You go Tom!! But, John, I just got back... And not a moment to soon You do make a very nice spa. i'm glad you are getting everything in order. Is there a dealer in Connecticut?? i think the last time i looked there was not?? John 104 degrees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artic Cub Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 You go Tom!! But, John, I just got back... And not a moment to soon You do make a very nice spa. i'm glad you are getting everything in order. Is there a dealer in Connecticut?? i think the last time i looked there was not?? John 104 degrees Everything in order......Well, Tom does follow through on what he says, too bad he doesn't manage the service or warranty department. I will call the new dealer again since I seem to be very low on the pecking order. Good explanation on the reflex hoses....However, if no clamps are needed, why did the service tech. just put a bunch of clamps on my tub to help avoid leaks? Maybe it's time to start posting "live" pics of my outstanding issue/concerns for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Clamps are needed in the Arctic plumbing set up & IMO should have been there from the start. Whoops, I missed the last couple responses about tek tube and the sure grip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Barbed fittings and clamps are necessary with vinyl tubing, which tends to soften and expand when warm. The heavier reflex torsion hose (also called shur-grip) used in Arctic Spas is attached in accordance with the specifications of the supplier, TekTube. This method is used for high-pressure agricultural sprayers so those specs exceed the requirements of our hot tubs. (Based on information supplied by James Keirstead, one of Arctic Spas' owners. Any errors in the description, however, are entirely mine!) According to this link, this method offers improved flow: Shur - Grip spa flex pipe...glues over the outside of 2" / 50mm spigot fittings (or 2" / 50mm) pipe. ( Standard spa flex glues inside spigot fittings such as elbows, unions, etc. Special spigot elbows, and fittings are available for use with Shur-Grip. Shur-Grip advantage - significantly improved flow rates due to the wider internal bore.... Further advantages cited by TekTube include # No clamps required # Improved glue joint performance when used with the Waterway Shur-Grip fittings # No kinking or ovaling to restrict water flow This may be the marketing approach by tek tube, but other companies use tek tube as well and they glue the jointswith pipe internally. The "reflex torsion hose" is a marketing name. Its just vinyl tubing with a PVC Helix. If you take 2 pieces of Spa hose & on one put a barbed fitting and on the other piece glue a fitting. Take a bucket of water, pour it into the tube from the untouched end. Then poor the same amount of water in the other tube. It will be definitive the pipe with the glued fitting will drain faster as a result of less resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I was actually told that the 1996 leaker problems Sundance had was because they tried to switch to this means of plumming. I can honestly say I dont know why they had all those leaks in 96 but know they would probably be the biggest spa manufacturer if not for all those unhappy customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I was actually told that the 1996 leaker problems Sundance had was because they tried to switch to this means of plumming. I can honestly say I dont know why they had all those leaks in 96 but know they would probably be the biggest spa manufacturer if not for all those unhappy customers. Sundance had the leak problems back in mid 90s because of new California environmental regulations forced them to change glues they used for plumbing. The new glues failed after a time. By the time the problem developed and could be addressed, there were spas in the field. Most all of those spas were replaced. Even as late as about three or four years ago there were posts regarding a Sundance spa that from that era that was developing leaks. Though SD did not replace a 7 or 8 year old spa, they applied the original purchase price towards a new spa or would take the spa and repair it. Needless to say the person took the new spa which would normally sell for $8000 for about $2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted August 19, 2007 Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 Did they ever resolve the cheap jets from China issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saskman Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Did they ever resolve the cheap jets from China issue? My elliptical trainer made in china - broke My DVD Player made in china - broke My childrens toys made in china - recalled for lead paint My cat food with additives from china - recalled and killed other people pets Anything with made in china is not on the top of my list these days. I wonder if matel would be having all these problems if they just kept a few more jobs in north america. Matel....Here's your sign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 I wonder if matel would be having all these problems if they just kept a few more jobs in north america. Our society clamours for lower prices at Walmart and that mentality is one of the reasons for driving jobs to China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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