Help troubleshooting Sundance topside panel issue

[kevink5516]

I picked up a used 2003 Sundance Altamar tub and after finishing some repairs for minor leaks and replacing the flow switch I finally have the tub full and hot! My latest problem though is that the topside control panel is now not working. The display is on and shows all information I'd expect to see, but none of the buttons on the panel work at all. There is an aux panel on the other side of the tub that only has buttons for the air blower and jets and all buttons on the aux panel work correctly.

Is there anything else I can do to try and further verify that I have a bad main topside panel and not a main control board problem? I really don't want to drop ~$400 on a new topside panel so I may just live with it for now since I can control the jets from the aux panel but it would be nice to be able to adjust the water temp setting!

I tried disconnecting the aux panel from the wiring harness and confirmed it made no difference to the functionality of the main topside panel. I also tested the transformer per the instructions in this post (https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53992-sundancejacuzzi-transformer-test/) and the transformer tested good. 

Lastly, does anyone know where I can download or buy a copy of a complete technical service manual for my tub like is photographed in the transformer test post? This would be really handy to have for future troubleshooting but I can't find anything online about Sundance service manuals. I'm guessing they may only be available to authorized dealers?

[kevink5516]

Well I'm hoping I just found the smoking gun of my problem! I pulled the ribbon cable connector off the main board in the spa pack and upon closer inspection found that 1 of the 10 male contact pins has broken off the connector on my main control board in the spa pack! See attached photos. 

I've read somewhere else on-line that these are Molex connectors but Molex has tons of different connector series and styles of connectors. Does anyone know the specific type of Molex connector used on these boards? I'm fully capable of removing the busted connector and soldering a new one on assuming I can find the appropriate connector part number to order. 

[waterbear]

Is there a broken pin in the cable connector plug itself? Sometimes if a line is not used the pin in the sicket is broken off on purpose.

[RDspaguy]

6 hours ago, kevink5516 said:

I'm guessing they may only be available to authorized dealers?

They are issued to participants in their technical service seminars open only to dealers. Even dealers cannot simply order one as far as I know, though it's been many years since I've worked for one. The manual is called the sundance "STA", or "standard troubleshooting approach". It's really more of a technician training manual for new techs than a reference. An idiots guide that doesn't cover half of what you see in the field. For example, it includes a whole section dedicated to using an electric multimeter, but never mentions mice anywhere.

No, I won't share the whole thing, I don't recall what I signed at the seminar all those years ago, but maybe someone anonymously shared it somewhere. Might be worth a google. I feel I already shared the only useful page in the book.

44 minutes ago, waterbear said:

Sometimes if a line is not used the pin in the sicket is broken off on purpose.

Or not installed, as they can be removed before soldering. A look at the back of the board might show an issue, but I've never seen a pin pull off the board on one of these. That pin connection is flimsy in the plug, and the plug will vibrate out if the side clips are not locked. That's not to say it CAN'T happen, it's a spa after all, but it is unlikely.

 

4 hours ago, kevink5516 said:

I'm fully capable of removing the busted connector and soldering a new one on assuming I can find the appropriate connector part number to order. 

No disrespect, but that's 10 solder points nearly touching. I'm not sure you'd find a shop that would touch that, and if you don't solder electronics for a living I'm certain you should not try it.

But first check the main topside cable (ribbon cable) for damage, all the way to the topside, which you'll probably have to remove to get to the back. Mice like to get cozy in the space under the topside or behind the pack and nibble on the cable. 

Those aux controls are notorious for shorting a button and thereby locking out the other buttons. You disconnected the aux control and tried it out after resetting the breaker? If you hadn't said you did, I'd be 90% on bad aux button. So are you sure?

[CanadianSpaTech]

 

4 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

No, I won't share the whole thing

Don't tell anyone where you got it from...lol 

http://jacuzzipartners.com/knowledgelibrary/assets/pdf/681.pdf 

4 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

I don't recall what I signed at the seminar all those years ago

[kevink5516]

17 hours ago, waterbear said:

Is there a broken pin in the cable connector plug itself? Sometimes if a line is not used the pin in the sicket is broken off on purpose.

Not that I see. And given that the pin directly above the missing location is slightly bent I'm thinking this is more likely evidence of accidental damage than an intentional pin removal but that's just a best guess. I really wish I could find a proper electrical schematic/pinout table for this connector but I'd need technical engineering documentation from Sundance for that level of detail.

15 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

Or not installed, as they can be removed before soldering. A look at the back of the board might show an issue, but I've never seen a pin pull off the board on one of these. That pin connection is flimsy in the plug, and the plug will vibrate out if the side clips are not locked. That's not to say it CAN'T happen, it's a spa after all, but it is unlikely.

Thanks for the info about the STA. In my picture taken with the flash, you can see the remains of the missing pin in the plastic connector body so it definitely was there when the connector was soldered to the board. Whether or not it was intentionally busted off later is another question. All photos I can find online of replacement PCBs show all 10 pins being present. 

15 hours ago, RDspaguy said:

No disrespect, but that's 10 solder points nearly touching. I'm not sure you'd find a shop that would touch that, and if you don't solder electronics for a living I'm certain you should not try it.

But first check the main topside cable (ribbon cable) for damage, all the way to the topside, which you'll probably have to remove to get to the back. Mice like to get cozy in the space under the topside or behind the pack and nibble on the cable. 

Those aux controls are notorious for shorting a button and thereby locking out the other buttons. You disconnected the aux control and tried it out after resetting the breaker? If you hadn't said you did, I'd be 90% on bad aux button. So are you sure?

No disrespect taken. Not trying to sound like a narcissist, but I'm a mechanical engineer that designs and builds electrical cable assemblies on a regular basis as part of my job and have a good amount of soldering experience. So I'm not too concerned about soldering a 10-pin through hole connector. If it does end up being beyond my soldering skill scope, I can take the board into my work and have my electrical engineer assist me with the connector replacement.

I'll pull the topside panel off tonight and check the ribbon cable up to the panel. I haven't done this yet and the spa definitely had a rodent infestation issue with the prior owner but the panel was functional and working when I bought the spa. Might be that minor damage on the cable existed which was worsened when I moved it to my house. Yes, I disconnected the aux control panel and confirmed that it is not the aux panel causing the problem. I was able to probe the aux panel ribbon cable connector with a multimeter and verify that all 3 buttons on the aux panel work and are not sticking. 

11 hours ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

 

Don't tell anyone where you got it from...lol 

http://jacuzzipartners.com/knowledgelibrary/assets/pdf/681.pdf 

Thanks for the link! This gives me some good general testing reference ideas despite it being Jacuzzi brand doc. So some of the specific electrical tests won't carry over to my Sundance board.   

[RDspaguy]

On 10/25/2023 at 11:52 AM, kevink5516 said:

So some of the specific electrical tests won't carry over to my Sundance board

Jacuzzi bought sundance almost 20 years ago. It should be good, half of the jacuzzi premium line uses that board, or used to anyway. Any model ending in a 5 as I recall.

On 10/25/2023 at 11:52 AM, kevink5516 said:

Not trying to sound like a narcissist, but I'm a mechanical engineer

🤣🤣🤣 I guess you're qualified then. Braver man than I.🫡

On 10/25/2023 at 11:52 AM, kevink5516 said:

you can see the remains of the missing pin

Not on my phone screen I can't, even with my glasses, but that's good to know. I'd say that's the issue, and you're qualified to fix it, so let us know how it goes.

[Sandor23]

I am having similar problem, my top panel on a Capri not working (23yrs old). I did look the 850 controller board and no visible sign of damage. The spa heats up to 100 degree on cycle 1 then shuts down. This is the only move it does, no any response like reset from from the display panel touch pad. Pump only runs low on the jet cycle. Mouse activity present in the Sentry box.

Spa is out side and temps at freezing point at night, only gets colder here in Eastern WA.

Need advise, please to fix the problem. Support is not possible because the remote location.

[jeff123]

On 10/25/2023 at 12:52 PM, kevink5516 said:

Not that I see. And given that the pin directly above the missing location is slightly bent I'm thinking this is more likely evidence of accidental damage than an intentional pin removal but that's just a best guess. I really wish I could find a proper electrical schematic/pinout table for this connector but I'd need technical engineering documentation from Sundance for that level of detail.

Thanks for the info about the STA. In my picture taken with the flash, you can see the remains of the missing pin in the plastic connector body so it definitely was there when the connector was soldered to the board. Whether or not it was intentionally busted off later is another question. All photos I can find online of replacement PCBs show all 10 pins being present. 

No disrespect taken. Not trying to sound like a narcissist, but I'm a mechanical engineer that designs and builds electrical cable assemblies on a regular basis as part of my job and have a good amount of soldering experience. So I'm not too concerned about soldering a 10-pin through hole connector. If it does end up being beyond my soldering skill scope, I can take the board into my work and have my electrical engineer assist me with the connector replacement.

I'll pull the topside panel off tonight and check the ribbon cable up to the panel. I haven't done this yet and the spa definitely had a rodent infestation issue with the prior owner but the panel was functional and working when I bought the spa. Might be that minor damage on the cable existed which was worsened when I moved it to my house. Yes, I disconnected the aux control panel and confirmed that it is not the aux panel causing the problem. I was able to probe the aux panel ribbon cable connector with a multimeter and verify that all 3 buttons on the aux panel work and are not sticking. 

Thanks for the link! This gives me some good general testing reference ideas despite it being Jacuzzi brand doc. So some of the specific electrical tests won't carry over to my Sundance board.   

Did you ever this this working? I have a 2004 Cameo that the topside panel won't work. I have done an almost full refurb of the spa - new control board, new main control panel, new topside panel, pumps, etc.  The old topside (or remote panel) didn't work, bought a brand new one. Hooked that up, didn't work. Bought a new main circuit board, neither worked with that either. I'm at a loss here. Is there something you need to do to activate the remote panel?

[kevink5516]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:34 AM, jeff123 said:

Did you ever this this working? I have a 2004 Cameo that the topside panel won't work. I have done an almost full refurb of the spa - new control board, new main control panel, new topside panel, pumps, etc.  The old topside (or remote panel) didn't work, bought a brand new one. Hooked that up, didn't work. Bought a new main circuit board, neither worked with that either. I'm at a loss here. Is there something you need to do to activate the remote panel?

I haven't been able to resolve my topside panel issue yet. Replacing the ribbon cable connector on the main control board unfortunately didn't fix my topside control panel functionality. I haven't had the time to pull the topside panel off though to check the ribbon cable for damage and haven't pulled the trigger to spend $400 on a new topside panel since we don't know yet if we want to keep the tub long-term. 

It sounds like you've swapped almost all the original parts in your tub our with new ones so that's really weird that you still can't get your topside panels to work. Is the old remote panel the only piece you haven't tried replacing yet? Do any of the topside buttons on either your main or remote panels feel stuck and like they aren't working? I think that's my issue, several buttons on my topside panel have no "clicking" action anymore so I'm convinced they've broken and are stuck in a permanently pressed state. If your remote panel is still original and has a bad button that could be impacting your new main topside panel from working correctly maybe?