fboyles Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 We’re looking for a new tub but I can’t figure out what brands use a circulation pump to heat and filter?? Verses a pump spa pack to do the same?? Can a circulation pump be added to a tub that uses a spa pack?? We use to have a Hot Springs and really liked that equipment setup but are unwilling to pay $10k+ for a foam sealed tub that no one wants to work on once out of warranty. Even then our “local” HS dealer didn’t impress me with their customer service. Any in sight would be appreciated!! Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 Almost every major brand has models with circulation pumps. You just have to look at the specs of a particular model. I hate to break the bad news to you but these days, any quality tub is going to cost $10K or more. You really do want a full foam tub for the insulative properties. There is no comparison in savings between a perimeter insulated and a full foam insulated tub. I get the issue with Hot Springs servicing out of warranty. Artesian makes many models and various product lines that have circulation pumps The Artesian Elites, Island and Island Elites all, for the most part, have circulation pumps. You would have to check on the lower end lines like the Tropic Seas and Garden Spas. Marquis, Bullfrog, Cal Spa, etc also have many models with circulation pumps. The Spa Pack is the controlling electronics. Depending on which model pack is used and the programming of such by the manufacturer, they either support a separate circulation pump or dual speed pumps which will be used to circulate water. If the spa Pack is capable of controlling a separate circulation pump, it will have the connections for it. Some Balboa series packs can do either (I wouldn't be surprised if Gecko packs can also do this). The setting of the DIP switches tell the controller how to address the pumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 31 minutes ago, cranbiz said: There is no comparison in savings between a perimeter insulated and a full foam insulated tub. Depending on climate and installation, it might not make any noticeable difference at all. Full foam tubs tend to need fewer repairs but when it needs one it uses up every dime you saved by having fewer repairs. Just the way it is. And HS has some of the worst tubs to work on. Just because the controls can operate a circ pump does not mean the spa can have one. It must be plumbed for it as well. Some brands plumb for a circ option, but others do not, and plumb it as ordered. Also, not all circ pumps work with all packs. Heaters have a minimum flow rate, and some circ pumps do not meet the required flow of some heaters, which results in sensor errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, RDspaguy said: Depending on climate and installation, it might not make any noticeable difference at all. Full foam tubs tend to need fewer repairs but when it needs one it uses up every dime you saved by having fewer repairs. Just the way it is. And HS has some of the worst tubs to work on. Just because the controls can operate a circ pump does not mean the spa can have one. It must be plumbed for it as well. Some brands plumb for a circ option, but others do not, and plumb it as ordered. Also, not all circ pumps work with all packs. Heaters have a minimum flow rate, and some circ pumps do not meet the required flow of some heaters, which results in sensor errors. Absolutely. I was going for the short version. Don't have enough time in the day to go thru all possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fboyles Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 We live in Houston TX so not too worried about the level of insulation as other parts may need. The spray insulation foam ended up being the reason we sold the Hot Springs. So I would prefer not to deal with that again. I’m leaning towards buying a used tub and feel comfortable doing any repairs myself. Our problem is the location of the hot tub which is about 10’ from our bed. After I sold the HS Envoy I bought a new Sun Belt HT. It was nice but only after 2-3 days we realized that their was no way we could listen to the droning wawawa noise that the pump made to circulate and heat the water. The only option to change the filter schedule was the start time. Which was to run for 2hrs every 12hrs. Plus the time to maintain temp. The tub sits on our covered patio in between our living room and bed room. I found a deal on a 2011 Morgan Spa that was pretty nice. But it didn’t have a circ pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 If you are truly interested in that one, see it running and test all functions. That's got a Gecko IN.XM Pack in it. Those are more costly to replace than a Balboa, so again, make sure everything works. It does, however support up to 3 pumps and a circulation pump. You could probably add a circulation pump to it but it's going to take extensive modifications to the plumbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSpaTech Posted March 10, 2022 Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 6 hours ago, cranbiz said: You really do want a full foam tub for the insulative properties. There is no comparison in savings between a perimeter insulated and a full foam insulated tub. I'll have to mildly disagree. 8-10 years ago perhaps I would have agreed. Spas need to breath. Most (a lot) of full foam spas will have/need venting for fresh air to cool pumps and keep them from overheating so I have always questioned this approach as gospel especially in -20 Canada for 5 months in Winter and 90+ in summer (2 days in august...lol). Some have tried or use adjustable vents that can be opened in summer and closed in Winter but the end user never uses this feature when needed. Off gassing, rodents, deterioration and R value effectiveness of the spray foam over time also give me pause. Closed cell foam that was used years ago when times were good vs the more common open cell foam (cheaper) that is used a lot today also paly into this thinking. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fboyles Posted March 10, 2022 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2022 It’s not currently connected to power. The owner said that after a storm water got into the wiring to the tub. Since I can’t test it I have to assume at worst case it would need a new spa pack. But the tub is >$400 so even if I had to put another $1000 for a spa pack it’s still a pretty good deal. But these forums are filled with questions on used hot tub “deals”. I was hoping that their were certain brands to look for that used circulation pumps versus the pump and spa pack. But it sounds like it’s going to be a bit more difficult as some brands do both methods?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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