Tiger River Spas V. Hs

[eke]

I just started looking this past weekend for spas. I went to a HS dealer and had only a brief time to speak with a salesperson. I was drawn toward the TRS Caspian, but also the HS Grandee and Vanguard. Is the TRS built with the same quality as the HS spas? (Spare me the comments Jim). I know it's the same "maker", I just wondered if the technology, parts and filtering were of the same quality.

I've checked out many of the posts and I appreciate all the good information out there. One thing I will do for certain is a wet test. Thanks for your input. There are some solid and knowledgeable salespeople out there.

Besides the salespeople, are there any consumers who have some experience with the Tiger River Spas?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

[Roger]

I just started looking this past weekend for spas. I went to a HS dealer and had only a brief time to speak with a salesperson. I was drawn toward the TRS Caspian, but also the HS Grandee and Vanguard. Is the TRS built with the same quality as the HS spas? (Spare me the comments Jim). I know it's the same "maker", I just wondered if the technology, parts and filtering were of the same quality.

I've checked out many of the posts and I appreciate all the good information out there. One thing I will do for certain is a wet test. Thanks for your input. There are some solid and knowledgeable salespeople out there.

Besides the salespeople, are there any consumers who have some experience with the Tiger River Spas?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

There are some minor differences between the TR and the HS, but basicly it is the value line for HS. I was close to getting a bengal once but it was very shallow for me. I liked the layout though.

[eke]

I hope I didn't insinuate that I wanted only responses from consumers....I would love to hear what the salespeople/dealers have to say. Thanks.

Eke

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I hope I didn't insinuate that I wanted only responses from consumers....I would love to hear what the salespeople/dealers have to say. Thanks.

Eke

There is quality of parts and quality of workmanship. The Tiger Rivers spas and the Hot Springs spas have some different parts for sure but many will be the same so I doubt you'll see much difference there. As far as quality of workmanship, since they're both made at the same factory that should be the same. Usually the difference between a premium spa and the next level spa from that same manufacturer is the features (# jets, HP, water features, look of the siding, color choices, etc.)

[Jim_The_Jim]

I just started looking this past weekend for spas. I went to a HS dealer and had only a brief time to speak with a salesperson. I was drawn toward the TRS Caspian, but also the HS Grandee and Vanguard. Is the TRS built with the same quality as the HS spas? (Spare me the comments Jim). I know it's the same "maker", I just wondered if the technology, parts and filtering were of the same quality.

I've checked out many of the posts and I appreciate all the good information out there. One thing I will do for certain is a wet test. Thanks for your input. There are some solid and knowledgeable salespeople out there.

Besides the salespeople, are there any consumers who have some experience with the Tiger River Spas?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

The last time I walked into a Hot Spring store the owner could not answer my questions on why the Tiger River was $2-3k less. To me it looks like the same stuff, but the tiger has suctions at the bottom which actually costs more to produce. What do you have against expert information?

[spatech (the unreal one)]

What do you have against expert information?

Jim,

I know you think you're a God when it comes to spas but you don't give "expert information". You merely give one- sided opinions. Your rhetoric is what this person is trying to avoid.

[Chris H]

Jim wrote: "The last time I walked into a Hot Spring store the owner could not answer my questions on why the Tiger River was $2-3k less. To me it looks like the same stuff, but the tiger has suctions at the bottom which actually costs more to produce. What do you have against expert information?"

How do you know that? Do you have Watkin’s manufacturing cost breakdown for adding this item to the spa versus having the second suction in the filter area? If you don’t have these items please make sure you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.

I have no idea which one costs more, but I would not put a blanket statement out there saying they do without the manufacturing labor and component cost breakdowns.

We don’t have problems with experts. We have problems with you.

[Guzz]

I just started looking this past weekend for spas. I went to a HS dealer and had only a brief time to speak with a salesperson. I was drawn toward the TRS Caspian, but also the HS Grandee and Vanguard. Is the TRS built with the same quality as the HS spas? (Spare me the comments Jim). I know it's the same "maker", I just wondered if the technology, parts and filtering were of the same quality.

I've checked out many of the posts and I appreciate all the good information out there. One thing I will do for certain is a wet test. Thanks for your input. There are some solid and knowledgeable salespeople out there.

Besides the salespeople, are there any consumers who have some experience with the Tiger River Spas?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

Here are the facts....

The Tiger River Spa line is a premium spa made by Watkins, it has the same frame, insulation, shell, pumps, heater & electronics as any HotSpring Spa. It does not have a moto massage jet or soothing seven jet that most Hs have, but does have all the others. It has a top mounted control panel as oppossed to an outside one and in tub auxilary. I actually prefer the tiger control display over the Hs.

Both have a good quality no-maintenance cabinet. Both have a led light, though the multi colored one is an option on the Tiger. The warranty is identical with the exception of the cabinet, 3 years Tr 5years Hs. Biggest differance is the filtration, HotSpring has a no-bypass mutiple filter system and some spas have the tri-ex cartridges, tiger has intakes and standard filters. Seating in the tiger tends to be more contoured deep bucket type than the traditional Hs barrier free type, though some of the newer models are more sculptured. In my opinion the Tiger River Bengal & Caspian spas are two of the best value spas on the market right now.

[eke]

What do you have against expert information?

...nothing...I don't want to make enemies or hurt feelings, but please stay out of these postings Jim, I'd rather not read the "rant"...

[spatech (the unreal one)]

What do you have against expert information?

...nothing...I don't want to make enemies or hurt feelings, but please stay out of these postings Jim, I'd rather not read the "rant"...

Now THAT is an informed spa shopper!!!

[Jim_The_Jim]

Jim wrote: "The last time I walked into a Hot Spring store the owner could not answer my questions on why the Tiger River was $2-3k less. To me it looks like the same stuff, but the tiger has suctions at the bottom which actually costs more to produce. What do you have against expert information?"

How do you know that? Do you have Watkin’s manufacturing cost breakdown for adding this item to the spa versus having the second suction in the filter area? If you don’t have these items please make sure you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.

I have no idea which one costs more, but I would not put a blanket statement out there saying they do without the manufacturing labor and component cost breakdowns.

We don’t have problems with experts. We have problems with you.

Their own dealer could not give me a reason and I was unknow to this guy. Just another shopper.

It is the same shell structure, the same quality of jets, and fittings. There is not $2500 in difference in parts or labor. I design and have spas built. I have catalogs on the wholesale prices of most all the equipment companies. To me the Hot Spring is an inferior plumbing design to the Tiger River, because the TR was built with the ANSI standards in mind. The only real difference in the TR and the Hot Spring is the lack of the Moto Massage, which basically is a hose in the wall that goes up and down by a swivel action. I assure you that is not worth $2500. A lot of flim flam in the advertising of Hot Spring spas.

What do you have against expert information?

...nothing...I don't want to make enemies or hurt feelings, but please stay out of these postings Jim, I'd rather not read the "rant"...

There is no rant, never has been. I just state the obvious. I have been in the spa industry as well as several other high tech fields. I don't like flim flam and I don't like cheap products being sold as if they had value, especially when they don't follow the safety standards of the United States.

I started in the spa industry in service. I have participated in warranty serivice for 16 different brands of spas, some of those brands are touted on this board.

I can remember the first time I was confronted with a really upset spa owner, who basically told me: "We didn't know. The spa salesman told me it was the best spa made." This was a customer with nearly $2500 in repair damage to the spa to get it to work correctly. It basically was falling apart in 4 years.

That nice couple was the inspiration for my book, "How Spas Are Made", which started as a bunch of hand outs for spa owners with service issues, then I started giving them to spa shoppers so they could avoid situations such as that couple had to contend with.

There is a lot of pure BS in the spa industry, and some of it is products designed 30years ago with antique engineering.

Why not go buy a car with two ply cotton cord tires with a 1500 mile warranty, and no seat belts? That is how I compare some of this stuff being sold.

[SpaMan]

There is no rant, never has been. I just state the obvious. I have been in the spa industry as well as several other high tech fields. I don't like flim flam and I don't like cheap products being sold as if they had value, especially when they don't follow the safety standards of the United States.

I started in the spa industry in service. I have participated in warranty serivice for 16 different brands of spas, some of those brands are touted on this board.

I can remember the first time I was confronted with a really upset spa owner, who basically told me: "We didn't know. The spa salesman told me it was the best spa made." This was a customer with nearly $2500 in repair damage to the spa to get it to work correctly. It basically was falling apart in 4 years.

That nice couple was the inspiration for my book, "How Spas Are Made", which started as a bunch of hand outs for spa owners with service issues, then I started giving them to spa shoppers so they could avoid situations such as that couple had to contend with.

There is a lot of pure BS in the spa industry, and some of it is products designed 30years ago with antique engineering.

Why not go buy a car with two ply cotton cord tires with a 1500 mile warranty, and no seat belts? That is how I compare some of this stuff being sold.

He cant help himself! EKE I am sorry for posting here but my hats off to you for seeing thru the bullstuff. Good luck to you and which ever spa you chose.

-SpaMan~

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Another hijacked thread by you know who.

[Jim_The_Jim]

He cant help himself! EKE I am sorry for posting here but my hats off to you for seeing thru the bullstuff. Good luck to you and which ever spa you chose.

-SpaMan~

You know what is really sad, is that you believe yourself. That is a sad condition for a "soul" to be in.

I pray for your family. May God bless you and give you what you need.

Another hijacked thread by you know who.

\

I am sorry that you don't like the truth. Really I am. I wish that you were teachable.

[Guzz]

I don't know of anyone who sells a HotSpring for $2500 more than a comparable Tiger River. $1000 maybe, but $2500, I don't think so.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I don't know of anyone who sells a HotSpring for $2500 more than a comparable Tiger River. $1000 maybe, but $2500, I don't think so.

That may be true of you but Jim's son met a guy who said he was friends with someone who overheard a lady say her dealer maybe once did.

[spa Dr.]

There is no rant, never has been. I just state the obvious. I have been in the spa industry as well as several other high tech fields. I don't like flim flam and I don't like cheap products being sold as if they had value, especially when they don't follow the safety standards of the United States.

I started in the spa industry in service. I have participated in warranty serivice for 16 different brands of spas, some of those brands are touted on this board.

HOLY CRAP YOU GOT FIRED 15 TIMES

I can remember the first time I was confronted with a really upset spa owner, who basically told me: "We didn't know. The spa salesman told me it was the best spa made." This was a customer with nearly $2500 in repair damage to the spa to get it to work correctly. It basically was falling apart in 4 years.

Was it the first spa you sold?

That nice couple was the inspiration for my book, "How Spas Are Made", which started as a bunch of hand outs for spa owners with service issues, then I started giving them to spa shoppers so they could avoid situations such as that couple had to contend with.

Hey Jim,

I looked for your book at amazon and couldn't find it .

Did you write it under a psudonam (I wish thar wes spel cheq on dis for um), or is someone impersonating you [/u]

There is a lot of pure BS in the spa industry,

from you

and some of it is products designed 30years ago with antique engineering.

yeh yours + some date system

Why not go buy a car with two ply cotton cord tires with a 1500 mile warranty, and no seat belts? That is how I compare some of this stuff being sold.

this is fun keep posting jim

I just started looking this past weekend for spas. I went to a HS dealer and had only a brief time to speak with a salesperson. I was drawn toward the TRS Caspian, but also the HS Grandee and Vanguard. Is the TRS built with the same quality as the HS spas? (Spare me the comments Jim). I know it's the same "maker", I just wondered if the technology, parts and filtering were of the same quality.

I've checked out many of the posts and I appreciate all the good information out there. One thing I will do for certain is a wet test. Thanks for your input. There are some solid and knowledgeable salespeople out there.

Besides the salespeople, are there any consumers who have some experience with the Tiger River Spas?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

Both brands are quality buys you really can't go wrong with either, you might want to check out Marquis or D1 as well.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Both brands are quality buys you really can't go wrong with either, you might want to check out Marquis or D1 as well.

One of the brands we have done warranty on is D1. We have a fix em all service center, and when the dealers go out of business they call us to do warranty.

Wind River, Caldera, LA, Coleman, American, Gatsby, Thermo Spas, Newport Spas, Emerald Spas, Catalina Spas, Dyasty Spas, Haven Spas, Hercules Spas, Dimension One Spas, Savannah Spas, Freeflow. Actually there are a couple others. We never got paid by Newport, because they went under.

We have also fixed quite a few Cal Spas that were under warranty, but the customer was tired of waiting, so they called us to go fix it.

Fixed a ton of Hot Spring Spas over the years. Lots of local brands, and just about every brand name spa there is. Sundance is common, so is Pacific Marquis and Marquis spas.

If you want a good education on spa construction and what falls apart, run a fix em all service center.

That may be true of you but Jim's son met a guy who said he was friends with someone who overheard a lady say her dealer maybe once did.

The quote for the Sovereign was $7500 and the Bengal was $5500 from the dealer in Tenn. Another quoted $7800 and 5300.

[eke]

The quote for the Sovereign was $7500 and the Bengal was $5500 from the dealer in Tenn. Another quoted $7800 and 5300.

Jim, for the sake of closure, which spa brands do you recommend, outside of haven spas. Another way to ask this, as everything can have a breakdown here and there, is which spas in your service center do you service less frequently? Also, as it is apparent you are no fan of FF spa's, in particular HS, why would a consumer come to you for warranty service if there are many local dealers. I'm just asking for the straight information and not some response that includes the conspiracy of the major SoCal manufacturers ripping Joe Consumer off. Thanks.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Jim, for the sake of closure, which spa brands do you recommend, outside of haven spas. Another way to ask this, as everything can have a breakdown here and there, is which spas in your service center do you service less frequently? Also, as it is apparent you are no fan of FF spa's, in particular HS, why would a consumer come to you for warranty service if there are many local dealers. I'm just asking for the straight information and not some response that includes the conspiracy of the major SoCal manufacturers ripping Joe Consumer off. Thanks.

I hope you don't really expect and HONEST answer.

[spa Dr.]

Jim, for the sake of closure, which spa brands do you recommend, outside of haven spas. Another way to ask this, as everything can have a breakdown here and there, is which spas in your service center do you service less frequently? Also, as it is apparent you are no fan of FF spa's, in particular HS, why would a consumer come to you for warranty service if there are many local dealers. I'm just asking for the straight information and not some response that includes the conspiracy of the major SoCal manufacturers ripping Joe Consumer off. Thanks.

'eke'

I'm aware that you really wanted to here from jim, hopfully I can help. rarely in my area do i have to work on Marquis, jacuzzi premium, I try not to work on Cal (ats), Master is good but have noticed leaks on newer models (I'm sure it was only a temporary issue),Vita is good (be sure to disconnect the hose for the misting system in winter),D1 has some flow issues but is a quality spa

Fact of the matter is nobody's perfect,some are just more flawed than others

[Jim_The_Jim]

Jim, for the sake of closure, which spa brands do you recommend, outside of haven spas. Another way to ask this, as everything can have a breakdown here and there, is which spas in your service center do you service less frequently? Also, as it is apparent you are no fan of FF spa's, in particular HS, why would a consumer come to you for warranty service if there are many local dealers. I'm just asking for the straight information and not some response that includes the conspiracy of the major SoCal manufacturers ripping Joe Consumer off. Thanks.

I guess I don't understand this question? : "why would a consumer come to you for warranty service if there are many local dealers."

We have done warranty work for spa owners because the dealers have closed doors, and the spa factory companies actually care to have their spas fixed, so they contact us. The thermo repairs are because they use independents all the time. I find it interesting that most all of the complaints I read on the net are from poor local dealer support, when we seem to keep our customers happy from as far away as Hawaii and England.

I am guessing that you mean why would a customer buy a Haven over a local dealer spa. The best way to answer that is to put you in touch with about 50 Haven customers. It is just that the Haven spas are very specialized products and they are very different from the "run of the mill".

I just hired a new service tech, by the way. We have been looking for a long time for a good one to add to our existing techs.

Not all Southern California manufactures are a rip off. Many are honest business people.

The brands of good value, meaning the product seems to have value in relation to the price, are Arctic (Canada), Emerald(MI), Catalina (So CA), Dynasty(TN), LA (SoCA) and don't forget the standard TP spas from Phoenix (North CA) and I like the Freeflow products (So CA) in the inexpensive spas. Freeflow uses the same brand of pumps (last time I checked) that Hot Spring puts in, but in a $2600 spa. The only full foam, major brand, spa that is decent in my opinion is Marquis, because of the ethics of the company. They are still a bit overpriced for the construction and parts and they use too much split flow with diverters.

Haven is in its own league. Small tightly controlled, low overhead company, producing much higher quality and much more quality control.

'eke'

I'm aware that you really wanted to here from jim, hopfully I can help. rarely in my area do i have to work on Marquis, jacuzzi premium, I try not to work on Cal (ats), Master is good but have noticed leaks on newer models (I'm sure it was only a temporary issue),Vita is good (be sure to disconnect the hose for the misting system in winter),D1 has some flow issues but is a quality spa

Fact of the matter is nobody's perfect,some are just more flawed than others

spa Dr. Where are you located?

[Trigger]

There are a few differnces.

1) don't listen to Jim. He has an agenda.

2) Anyhow, the major differences are

Size. TR are a smaller, shallower tub.

Filtering. The TR tub have a single filter cratridge, the HS have several.

Jets. the HS tubs have the moto massage. TR do not.

All in all the TR is a great tub for the money.

[Jim_The_Jim]

There are a few differnces.

1) don't listen to Jim. He has an agenda.

2) Anyhow, the major differences are

Size. TR are a smaller, shallower tub.

Filtering. The TR tub have a single filter cratridge, the HS have several.

Jets. the HS tubs have the moto massage. TR do not.

All in all the TR is a great tub for the money.

Hi Trigger; It is good to see you back on the forum.

1) My agenda is that I promote quality companies who are not strictly

building a product for extreme profits.

2) Smaller and Shallower; The cost for the foam differences would be about $25.00 the acrylic/abs is the same.

The single filter on the TR is bigger. Cost difference about $60

Moto Massage is about $100 in parts and not worth that.

The TR has more plumbing pieces to conform to the ANSI.

The TR is a better value than the HS, but it is still a cheaply made product being sold for too much money in today's market. It also does not have the best reputation.

I strongly recommend that anyone who is spending that sort of money, (unless you are filthy rich and have money to burn.) goes out and shops for at least a month of weekends to see what is really available. And do wet test. Don't fall for false advertising and fake, "greased palm" awards. Find out what those are as well. Don't be sold and pressured, just make an educated decision.

[Trigger]

Hi Trigger; It is good to see you back on the forum.

1) My agenda is that I promote quality companies who are not strictly

building a product for extreme profits.

2) Smaller and Shallower; The cost for the foam differences would be about $25.00 the acrylic/abs is the same.

The single filter on the TR is bigger. Cost difference about $60

Moto Massage is about $100 in parts and not worth that.

The TR has more plumbing pieces to conform to the ANSI.

The TR is a better value than the HS, but it is still a cheaply made product being sold for too much money in today's market. It also does not have the best reputation.

I strongly recommend that anyone who is spending that sort of money, (unless you are filthy rich and have money to burn.) goes out and shops for at least a month of weekends to see what is really available. And do wet test. Don't fall for false advertising and fake, "greased palm" awards. Find out what those are as well. Don't be sold and pressured, just make an educated decision.

I prefer not to get into a debate over what your agenda is. Impartial readers will quickly see what your actual agenda is.

In an effort to help the person who posted the question, and others who may look to this thread to help them understand the differences in the Tiger River line ....

The filtering: The TR ltubs are smaller and have about half the filter surface as thier sister HS tubs. If your comparing the two lines of these tubs, this is one of the differences to take a look at. This is not to say the tiger river system in't good enough for thier tub, they are matched up pretty decently. I know that at least some of the filter systems on the HS employ several smaller filters. Once again: its something to take a look at and understand what the differences are when comparing these tubs.

The heaters are also smaller on the TR line. I beieve the TR are 4000w and I belive the HS are 6000w.

Some of the TR lines are available in 120v models, The HS are all 240v. (I would recomend a 240v system)

In addition the different jets configuration and types, the tub size, and the heaters, the pumps are a bit different and I belive that HS tubs are set up for an audio system, while the TR are not.

I agree, dollar to dollar the TR line represents more tub for the money, but for the shopper who is looking for a bit more may find thier ideal configuartion in the HS models. Both are exceptional brands, but if one simpley wanted to know what the differences where, there they are.

Both Tubs are insualted the same, and offer the same Ozone systems. They are built at the same plant They are backed by the same company.

The Tiger River tubs have 3 models, and the HS line has 8. I feel the statement of a $2500 price diferences is misleading. You've got to compare at least similliar model tubs.

And FWIW, I'm not a sales person, just a hot tub enthusiast that knows what it's like to buy tubs and how overwheling it can be when dealing with some people in this industry. So if your looking at purcashing a hot tub, the TR line is definatley worth a look.