Susanj Posted June 7, 2020 Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 Can anyone tell me about the Frog system using a mineral (silver ion) cartridge and a bromine cartridge? One came with our spa and we never used it . We use a bromine flaoater with tabs instead. What is the advantage ? The Frog system is more costly but if it works better to keep consistent bromine levels, it would be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanj Posted June 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2020 I do have 2 specific questions. I read you can't use bromide with it (inactivates the silver). So when I refill my spa I don't need to build up a bromine bank with the sodium bromide packets? 2 If water is changed monthly , does mineral cartridge get changed monthly or still every 4 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Mineral purifiers, by whatever name, put silver and copper into the water. These interfere with the reproductive cycle (cell division) of single celled organisms such as bacteria and protozoa. I am having the strangest feeling of deja-vu, Susan. Didn't we go over this before? By slowing the reproductive rate of organic contaminants it gives your sanitizer more time to kill them and fewer of them to kill. This allows for lower sanitizer levels. I have never heard that it is incompatible with sodium bromide. Bromine becomes bromide when it combines with organic contaminants, so if it did "inactivate" the silver it would do so with any bromine. Sodium bromide is added at fill to establish a "reserve" from which your bromine is created by oxidation. That is why you shock to "activate" your bromine. Metal sequesterants will inactivate the silver and copper in a mineral purifier. The majority of the metals released by a mineral purifier are released in the first few days, the rest slowly seep into the water to make up for oxidation. The metals do not dissipate on their own, but will oxidize to a small degree and be filtered out. You need a new mineral purifier any time you refill your spa. I should point out that mineral purifiers are not recognized by CDC or health department regulations and do not permit lower sanitizer levels in public spas. Just as algeacide does not permit lower sanitizer levels in pools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanj Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 On another post of mine about using shock , you did bring up some information about minerals. It was in my spa owner’s manual that I read that about bromide. And also that you can keep your bromine at 1-2 with the Frog system and without it , at 3 to 5 ppm. But I think you are saying that is only for a private spa? Not a semi-public one like in a vacation rental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Exactly. The regulations on sanitizer levels do not change because of minerals, metals, ozone, or uv. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanj Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 But apparently the sanitizer level range does change for private spas. Because my manual says with an ozonater or the Frog System, the bromine can be 1-2 ppm , otherwise 3-5 ppm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Private spas are unregulated, just like private pools. You can do anything you want to in a private spa. There are many forums about private pools and spas (as you know) but for public you won't find much information on forums. Few professionals give away their knowledge for free. And most pool stores do not, and cannot, touch a public pool. In most places you must be a Certified Pool Operator (CPO) or under the supervision of one to maintain a public pool. And yes, I do have my CPO certification. Check NSPF (National Swimming Pool Foundation), Pool and Spa News, and Aqua magazine for more information. You might also check into vacation rental owner forums. Not sure if there are any, but if so they may have some good advice specific to your situation. When I maintained vacation rental spas, they were compliant with health department regulations at the start of every rental. We were not responsible for anything after that as the owners did not pay us to test and maintain during the rental so the responsiblity fell on the owner. But we would visit immediately after a check-out and before a check in and kept records to prove it was compliant before each group checked in. And there were times the spa would be closed at that time if we were unable to make it compliant in time, resulting in a partial refund to the customer if the spa was advertised as an amenity. Incidentally, ozone will deplete not only chloramines and chlorine, but bromine as well to lesser degree. It will oxidize bromide to bromine then oxidize the bromine, thus reducing your bromide reserve. They say it is ok to have 1-2ppm because you will be hard-pressed to maintain anything higher. And chlorine the same but down to .5ppm (yes point 5). Most public spas and vacation rentals (in my experience) do not use ozone for that reason. If you have ozone I would suggest you disconnect it if you want to maintain a residual. BTW, this is the only circumstance in which I will say that, I myself won't own a spa without it. But mine is not public. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusser Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 7 hours ago, RDspaguy said: You can do anything you want to in a private spa. I can attest to that !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanj Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 We sent our cleaner to take the 2 day course to get certified. Our model came with a built-in ozonator so I imagine many vacation rentals have them. They are not considered public at a vacation rental . Perhaps there should be an intermediate classification in-between private and public. What you are saying about ozone seems contradictory to what I have read online- this is from Spa Depot- Used in concert with your sanitizer, ozone helps kill pathogenic bacteria, germs, and viruses and helps to oxidize organic contaminants. Ozone frees up combined chlorine and bromine, thus freeing them to be continuously reused. Ozone ultimately enhances the performance of chlorine and bromine . Ozone destroys microbes, oxidizes contaminants, and causes total dissolved solids to clump together for easier removal by the filter. “ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDspaguy Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.b2epc.com/publications/OzoneSystemsNewsletter.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjlr8GvxfLpAhWEdc0KHfvBDMEQFjAMegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3Ox9JNUa2VSw3SLhhH0PwH Believe who you want. I choose scientists over parts salesmen. Good luck to you Susan. I have given you my advice, you can take it or leave it as you choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susanj Posted June 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 Thank you for all the information.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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