Error Message

[rockcandymountain]

I have a Cal Spas tub. It is about 7 yrs old.   

Every oncei n a while I get the dY error.  I will push a button and it will go back to running normal for sometimes a few weeks other times a few days.

 

This error 'says'  Insufficiant water level detected in heater.   The tub is filled to the proper level.  The filter is clean, so Im not sure what is causing this error.

 

I DID replace the heater a few years ago.  I do not remember if I used the new water sensors that came with it or if I just screwed in the old ones.  

Could these two sensors, which are screwed into the heater tube on each side be the cause of a false low water reading?  

[RDspaguy]

Yes, but so could a dirty filter or faulty circulation pump. Do you have the other sensors? Remove filter and see how it does.

[rockcandymountain]

So, I think I have diagnosed the issue.  I believe the main pump is not turning.   When I push on any of the control panel buttons to clear the code,  I hear what sounds to me like a mumming motor. Which makes me wonder if the impeller is broken. With the hum, I would think the motor (could) still be good.   

I will open up the cabinet and get a number off of the pump and then hopefully I can get a replacement.  Does anyone know whether the motor/pump assembly is all one piece or can they be bought seperate?

[CanadianSpaTech]

In the back of the motor there is a dust cover dead center of the motor. Remove the dust cover and you will see a shaft with a slot in it. Use a flat head screwdriver and see if A) it turns freely and 2) if you give it a spin/turn does the motor then start up.

Let us know results

[rockcandymountain]

So, after I opened up the skirting to expose the motor(s)  I started pushing buttons on the control panel.  There are 4 buttons: Temp,  Light, Jets, Options.

When pushing either the Jets, or Options button, the motor that is NOT the pump motor will start spinning.   So, I then pushed the temp button. That made the water pump motor start

working. So, for now it appears to be working.   The water temp did drop quite a bit so I will continue to monitor it to see if it gets back up to operating temp.    But, looking that the pump

motor , the replacement of it shouldn't be too hard.  I put a new heater in it last year.

The tub is a 2007 so it has served me well.

[RDspaguy]

Can you post a pic of your equipment?

[rockcandymountain]

So, today I went out to check the temp and I had an HH error which indicates an extremely high temp at the heater.   So,  I adjusted the temp 1 degree to see if the circulation pump would come on.   The motor hummed but did not turn the pump. So,  I then started the other motor which controls jets and "options"  which I think is air bubbles.  Once that pump came on a I shut it off and then I tried the circulation pump and it ran fine.   

I would think with a motor of 5 HP, that a starting capacitor may be part of the electronics.     

Since I have already replaced the skirting, I will see how it operates for a few days.  If it continues to act up, then its probably time to replace the circulation motor/pump assembly.

But I think a DIY person could do it.  

Rule #1 turn off power at the service panel.

 

[rockcandymountain]

Well, the more variety of error codes I'm seeing leads me to believe it has to be the motor, pump assembly.  I had been turning it down 10 degrees during periods when I know I wont be using it for a few days. Today when I raised the temp, the pump motor didn't come on, but it hummed.  After i turned on the jets and tried the pump again it came right on and stayed on til desired temp was achieved.  Then the tub sat for an hour or so and when I went to use it, It had error dr, which indicates inadequate water detected in heater.  I had to do the same thing, start jets, then start pump.  

The person who asked for pictures, I will get them put on here this week.

[rockcandymountain]

These are pictures of the circulation pump and the control panel.     I had used the tub last night and when I was done, I turned it down to 95.   I usually have it at 102 for use.  This morning when I took these photos, I raised the temp above what the current temp of the water was and the circulation pump started up just fine.  I did that twice, without issues.  

Yet, there are times when I go to the tub, lift the lid and check the display and it says dy or dr, which is about water supply at the heater.   So, at this point I am not convinced that the circulation up has a problem.

I don't see any relays in the control panel, so I have no idea which way to proceed. Any ideas?

I

[RDspaguy]

Ok. So it is your main 2 speed pump that moves water through the heater. It will start in high speed, but only sometimes in low. You probably have a bad start capacitor.

[rockcandymountain]

So, Can I assume that the label on the pump will indicate if it is a 2 speed pump?   Also there are two 'humps' on the casing of the motor.  Would those house the capacitors?   If so I'm hoping its only a screw or 2 that holds them in.   So I am off to do some exploring. Note to self, capacitors do hold a charge, so be careful. and also turn power off.

 

I"m back with pictures.

So are the capacitors under those humps?

The model number on the motor is 5KCP49UN9089X

[RDspaguy]

Yes, those humps are the capacitors, one is the start capacitor and the other is the run capacitor.

Your motor shows two amp ratings (A), one is high speed (10.8), the other low speed (1.4). Motors will often start in high speed even with a bad capacitor. 

[rockcandymountain]

So, should I just go ahead and replace both of them?   I assume once I get the covers off, they will have numbers on them.

[RDspaguy]

You are looking for both size and uF or mF rating. This should be printed on the side. It may be quite obvious which is bad, as there could be goo coming out of one or obvious heat damage. Some caps have a small hole with cardboard behind it, if cardboard is split or bulging it is bad.

[rockcandymountain]

So here are the capacitors, they dont look bad, but who knows.   Not sure what number to research a replacement by.   I tried the one with M30  no luck.

[rockcandymountain]

The #15 is 2 3/4 in by 1 3/4 dia.   The 30 is 3 3/4 by 1 3/4.   dia.  Gonna see what Grainger has that matches/

[rockcandymountain]

So, I'm not seeing a lot of plastic cased capacitors.  Most of the aluminum cased units have a rolled lip on them that makes them  a bit bigger in diameter than the plastic cased ones. Which could make it more difficult to push back into the 'hump' that holds them.   Also, while I was removing the humps, the bottom hump has a relay also. Should I leave that alone?  It looks like to spade connectors for the relay are down inside the motor case. And I don't know how much excess wire there is to try to pull out to remove/replace the relay.

[RDspaguy]

I am not familiar with that brand, and google is not turning up much. Call an electric motor shop, or just bring the whole pump to one.

[rockcandymountain]

Why would I empty my hot tub and  disassemble the entire pump to get a matching capacitor? That's crazy.   I wasn't aware that forums, as such, only had one person that can offer advice to those of us looking for help.

But thanks for the help, anyway

[CanadianSpaTech]

I offered advice and would have offered more but you didn't want to take it.

Here is a link to the capacitors for that pump: 🖕  

[RDspaguy]

Wow. You asked for advice, I gave it to you. I received nothing in return, I do this out of kindness and generosity, as does everyone else on this forum. You do not have to take our advice, but could at least be appreciative of those offering it. If I had not diagnosed your problem you would have no clue and been stuck paying a professional like myself to come fix it for you. But instead you expect us to do all the work and hand you a solution for free. You are so clueless you cannot even answer our questions accurately. But you feel it's ok to be derisive when you don't like the advice you are given. The only thing crazy is me for wasting my time trying to help you.

Good luck to you. You'll get no more advice from me. Or, I would imagine, anyone else on this forum.

[rockcandymountain]

All I am saying is why would anyone empty a hot tub just to cross check some capacitors that are easily removed withOUT draining the tub.  You, yourself mentioned to call an electric motor shop.  I took pictures that would pretty much tell an electric motor shop technician everything he would need to know in regards to figuring out what capacitor to use.   

I offered advice and would have offered more but you didn't want to take it. from CanadianSpatech. you told me to check to see if the motor turns. That was your advice.  I knew that the motor turned. So I guess I didnt want your advice on that particular test.

I'm guessing I gave all the information that various people had asked for. Yet,  I'm still baffled why A trained Paid Professional Spa Tech would tell me to empty the tub, remove the motor and take it in for capacitor comparison.

[CanadianSpaTech]

8 hours ago, rockcandymountain said:

why A trained Paid Professional Spa Tech would tell me to empty the tub, remove the motor and take it in for capacitor comparison.

Because it was obvious from the beginning that you lacked the skill, knowledge or have the mental ability to follow basic instructions. I asked you to perform a basic task. Put a screwdriver into the slot in the back of the motor and see if A) was it seized and 2) if you were able to help the motor start in low speed by turning it. This would have led to the conclusion that you have a bad start cap 7 days before you finally listened to @RDspaguy 

 

On 6/4/2020 at 5:02 PM, rockcandymountain said:

So, at this point I am not convinced that the circulation up has a problem.

 

[rockcandymountain]

The basic task you asked me to do was mute from the beginning. I knew the pump turned.  So, attacking my skill, mental ability and knowledge is way off.  I have done basic repairs on 10 ton A/C units. replaced inducer motors. blower motors,  exhaust motors. I have rebuilt 220 volt deep fryers.  Both thermostatic side and High limit switch side. 

I have built computers for 30 years.   I'm in my late 60's and can usually figure out whats up. I replaced the heater in this hot tub.  

So, when YOU tell me that I cannot follow basic instructions when I already knew what the answer was to "seeing" if the motor was seized. I knew it was not.

 

So, thanks one this sub to the 2 people who have all the answers. Or so it seams

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

It was not mute from the beginning... AGAIN... I wanted to know if the pump would start if you helped it turn with a screwdriver. That is an indicator of a weak start cap and if you had I would have advised to replace it over a week ago. I had no knowledge of your talent or lack there of so I asked you to perform the most basic thing I could think of in order to HELP you along diagnosing the issue. I already knew what it was I just wanted you to see and understand what was happening with your spa and pump. FYI you are the first of the hundreds of folks I have helped on this forum to be ungrateful of not only my time but @RDspaguy as well.