Hot Tub Overheating

[RDspaguy]

What did you do to correct the problem?

Do you have pump 2 wired for the right voltage?

If you had pump 2 wired for the wrong voltage you could have damaged it. Humming usually indicates a bad capacitor or locked rotor. 

[Shamwowguy]

I moved that white wire and circled pump started running. 

The pump was working perfect until I moved that wire for circ pum. Capacitor is newish in pump. 

[RDspaguy]

A pump can run for a while at the wrong voltage. Confirm ALL of your equipment is wired correctly. If it still hums, check the capacitor. Check to see if you can turn the motor shaft by hand. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Ok 1 down now onto the pump. You previously stated it was constantly running and was also recently rebuilt. Please confirm that the pump is 240V or 120V. Please check the wiring going into the back of the pump you may have the white wire in the wrong location. The red and black wires are for high speed and low speed and white is common.  It sounds like the 2 speeds are coming on at the same time. It will run in low but hum/buzz when the high speed is selected. What brand is the pump and can you post a photo of the pump motor along with any white tags on the side of the motor that shows wiring diagram if present. Also remove the back cover of the pump and post a photo of the way the pump is currently wired...if you can get at it. Is there 1 pump or 2 main pumps?

When the pump was rebuilt was the wiring removed from the back of the pump at anytime?

[RDspaguy]

From the photos, pump 2 is a single speed pump. I think he said pump 1 works and circ pump works, but pump 2 hums. I suspect pump 2 was also wired for the wrong voltage, and it has blown his capacitor, if not worse. You can see in the photo it is wired for 240v at the board, but I am not sure if it started out that way or he switched it. Doesn't really look factory to me just by wire routing.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Here is the VS501SZ 54559 hot sheet Page 5. With the exception of W2 to red AC. for the 240V circ (ozone and circ MUST BOTH be same voltage...See important information on page 7 of manual below) The single speed Pump 2 from the expansion board gets wired as pictured in manual. If all of this is wired correctly and it hums when you hit high speed then IMO you have to go to the back of the pump 1 and check that white wire as mentioned in my previous post.

Hot Sheet here: https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/50358623/54559-01-vsp-vs510sz-dcaj-balboa-direct

To kinda test the white wire at back of pump.. if the white wire is in the middle of the 3 connections remove the top wire (red or black) and connect the white wire in the top position (or visa versa). Leave the wire you just disconnected...well disconnected and turn power back on. If the pump starts on low speed then the remaining non white wire still connected (bottom position) is the low speed. If it starts in high speed then power down and move it up to the middle and try power again. If it now starts on low then power down and connect the remaining unconnected wire to the bottom connection and try powering up again. Now it should start on low and then try the high speed and let us know results. Making any changes please power down first. Safety never takes a holiday and I'm just a guy on the internet. Good luck

[CanadianSpaTech]

5 hours ago, Bobbymckay said:

two speed pump doesn't pump at all, Just a loud humming on got extremely hot really fast. Pump 1 is running good

Pump 1 is running good? Pump 1 is the 2 speed pump and pump 2 in photos is single high speed only...sorry a little confused 

[RDspaguy]

Yeah, that mixed me up too. Which pump is humming?

[RDspaguy]

And who rebuilt the pump? Did you bring it to a motor shop, pool store, or DIY? What was replaced as part of this rebuild? What brand of motor is on this Executive pump?

[Shamwowguy]

The pump was rebuilt at a shop, everything as far as wiring has not been tampered with and is factory. It is the two speed pump that is not working (Pump1,top of board) I just switched wires at the back of the pump and it ran on two speed for 15 seconds then sounded like it locked up and continued to hum. The shaft can be moved by hand so its not jammed. 

Thanks again for the help, it is much appreciated! 

 

[Shamwowguy]

Update: When I reset breaker and started pump it started in high then when put onto low speed and really hums and barley pumps, then when turned off it won't go back to high speed, it just hums really loud. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

So did you just change the wires to where they are located in the photo? Was the photo taken before or after you switched wires around? What order were the wires in BEFORE you switched them?

 

18 hours ago, Bobbymckay said:

I moved that white wire and circled pump started running. 

The pump was working perfect until I moved that wire for circ pum. Capacitor is newish in pump. 

Might try and remove the white circ wire and see if the pump now works again

[Shamwowguy]

Removing white wire the pump  does not work. The wires were like that before I moved them around. 

[CanadianSpaTech]

White black red should be correct. If on start up it starts in high switch the red and black and try again to start it in low on start up. Do you have a multi meter and knowledge of how to use one? Need to test hi and low voltages coming off the board with the pump disconnected. It is a new board so don't think there will be any issues there but should verify anyway. If good plug male end back in and leaving the green ground attached remove the 3 wires from the back of the pump and carefully test/verify high and low speeds there. If all that is good there is only the pump itself left. Repair or replace. IMO

[RDspaguy]

I ask what was done to the motor because if the bearings were replaced on that motor then they had the rotor out which means they had the start switch apart which could be your problem. I said quite a while ago that the rebuild could be the problem. Have you confirmed your board wiring for equipment voltages, because it looks in your photo that you have this 240v motor wired up for 120v. Canadaguy has been saying forever to check the wiring on the pump. If you expect a bunch of strangers to help you solve your problem for free, you should at least answer their questions and listen to their advice. This is what we do, or did, for a living.

My advice is to call a professional before you destroy your new equipment. I am sure Canadaguy or myself would have it figured out in under 5 minutes. But you seem to be incapable of following instruction. Maybe it is worth the service charge and hour of labor to get the answer before you damage your new, and possibly unnecessary, equipment pack. Just my opinion.

Best of luck to you.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Yeah went back and had a second look at the photo on page 1 and it is hard to see but the White wire below and to the right (W1) of where the pump connects to the board is going to White AC (120V) and should go to Red AC. Thought we were past this point. Please confirm where the W1 wire goes.

[Shamwowguy]

I would have called a professional a long time ago but im 2+ hours from the nearest city, would be cheaper to buy a new tub, Also I'm not incapable of following instructions I'm doing the best I can with what I got, sorry I don't have a "LARGE" knowledge on tubs like yourself.  

The motor had the wet end rebuilt and bearings replaced. 

I tried disconnecting the white wire from circ pump and it didn't make a difference in the pumps activity. 

I did switch red and black wires and the pump starts/runs and turns on/off on high nicely, just missing low speed buts doesn't lock up and hum, the only issue seems to be the low speed. 

I will hook my volt meater up at pump and see what I am getting.  

[Shamwowguy]

17 minutes ago, CanadianSpaTech said:

Yeah went back and had a second look at the photo on page 1 and it is hard to see but the White wire below and to the right (W1) of where the pump connects to the board is going to White AC (120V) and should go to Red AC. Thought we were past this point. Please confirm where the W1 wire goes.

Just confirmed it is going to Red AC 

[CanadianSpaTech]

Just confirmed it is going to Red AC....ok thx. When you reset the breaker does the pump automatically start on high or low?

Also look at the white pump #1 male end that plugs onto the board and ensure that the pins are all the way in when connected. 

 

[CanadianSpaTech]

We are getting close hang in there. Remove the silver cap dead center at the back of the pump and you will see the shaft of the motor with a slot cut into it. Have a flat head screwdriver with you. With power off Remove the bottom wire from the back of the pump and wrap it in a bit of electrical tape ensuring it can't touch anything and restart power again. If the pump hums put the flat head screwdriver into the slot and try to spin the shaft and help it to start spinning. Let us know results

[RDspaguy]

From the pic, I assume this motor is a US motor, formerly Emerson. The centrifugal switch in these is a wishbone behind the bearing that is easily damaged and difficult to get back in place when the rotor is pulled to replace the bearings. If this switch is damaged or improperly reinstalled, the motor may run on low speed at a very slow rate until it burns up the start windings, or it will not run at all. High speed will often still start, as it uses a different winding and generates enough torque to start without the start winding. One pool store I worked at refused to rebuild these motors for just that reason. A bad capacitor can have a similar effect.

I think that motor has been an issue since your first post, before you replaced the pack, has it not? It has not worked properly with either pack, and has not worked since it was rebuilt? But we all assume it to be good, because it was just rebuilt? Bring it back to the motor shop. Have them show you it running in low and high speed while grounded.

Check voltages at pump wiring and spin the shaft to check for a bad capacitor as Canadaguy suggested. I suspect there will be no problem there, but we need to confirm that first.

I apologize for my earlier post. I have a 3 month old and haven't been getting enough sleep lately. This is not your fault and you should not have to suffer for it. I am sorry.

[CanadianSpaTech]

Yeah never had any luck with those pump rebuilds. Very easy to damage the wishbone and tiny springs popping out. To this day I don't know how they put them together. Was slowly working in that direction. 

[RDspaguy]

I have rebuilt hundreds of them working for other people. In my own business I learned to not offer rebuilds. They may save my customer some money, and they may cost them more. The only guarantee you get is that they will charge you wether they can rebuild it or not. No warranty and customer now has to pay me for another trip to re-install it, which eats my time and their savings. I carried new motors on my truck, so could replace it immediately with no extra trip, and give a warranty. Better for everyone but the rebuilder. And you never have a PO'd customer expecting you to buy them a new pump and install it for free because a motor shop rebuild failed. Last 10 years or so, if a customer wants a rebuild I explain that I will charge them an additional trip to come back out to reinstall it, and I remove it and give it to them to take where ever they want. I have no part of the rebuild, that is between them and the motor shop.

[CanadianSpaTech]

I carry seals, impellers and bearings and do the rebuild onsite off the tailgate of my truck. I can usually complete one in under 30 mins. What I find for a leaking seal or seized motor is what usually happens is the the shaft of the motor just before the threads where the impeller goes will balloon a bit from centrificle force and cause the impeller shaft to expand into the seal and either crack the impeller shaft causing a leak or to lock/seize in place. When I do a rebuild I will usually only replace the front bearing if it looks or sounds like water has run down the shaft and into the front bearing. Most times if the shaft is clean and clear of rust and not making noise I don't even touch it. If the shaft has ballooned and or is rusty I will use my grinder and shave it down a bit so the impeller screws on easily. Hardly ever do the rear bearing and usually only re grease it. Not every pump can be saved but I will give my customers several options and prices. New, Rebuilt or a lot of times if the motor can't be saved I strip a lot of used spas going to the dump but will often have pumps and other good parts and price them in between new and rebuilt. Only offer warranty on new. I inform the customer what the risks are for rebuilt and used and let them make the decision. For a rebuild I am usually under $50 in parts (less if I don't have to do the bearing) and a half hour of time plus the trip fee and re and re labour. I can usually be in and out in 2 hours if access to the pump is good. I don't carry new pumps on my truck not enough room and if I do have one on board it is usually the wrong one...lol. I add in a bit of travel time to go and get one if it is needed. Luckily I have a wholesale distributor 20 minutes away. Stay Safe Cheers

[RDspaguy]

I have a friend that does the used part thing. I will put used parts in a used spa I am fixing to sell, but will not sell used parts in the field. 

Just doing the front bearing saves you from messing with that centrifugal switch. I have never done a rebuild in the field. I guess it's just how I was taught. I bring it to the shop.