Warranty Service On Evolution Spa

[arches2]

Arches - you didn't read the thread cloasely - the very first post I stated I pulled off all (8) of the side panels and looked for signs of leaks, and saw not one drop of water inside the cabinet. The very first thing I did though was turn off the electricity.

see my first inclination after not seeing a drop of water (i saw that you did that) would have been to refill it and confirm a leak. if you had done this you would have saved everyone a lot of time and money. What you did was equivalent of running your car out of gas and calling the dealer for warrantee work.

[Hot Spring Ace]

Arches - you didn't read the thread cloasely - the very first post I stated I pulled off all (8) of the side panels and looked for signs of leaks, and saw not one drop of water inside the cabinet. The very first thing I did though was turn off the electricity.

see my first inclination after not seeing a drop of water (i saw that you did that) would have been to refill it and confirm a leak. if you had done this you would have saved everyone a lot of time and money. What you did was equivalent of running your car out of gas and calling the dealer for warrantee work.

I think a lot of people would have done a day or two of self diagnostics before they called it in but spa owners come in all different packages. We see that on this site alone where sometimes its tough to tell a pro from an owner since some owners become so acquainted with their products that they're able to help new people like a pro at times.

[arf1410]

If I wasn't so concerned about warranty expiration any day I would have indeed spent more time troubleshooting.... But my work schedule had been so busy at that time it would have been at least a week before I had time to do that.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Arches - you didn't read the thread cloasely - the very first post I stated I pulled off all (8) of the side panels and looked for signs of leaks, and saw not one drop of water inside the cabinet. The very first thing I did though was turn off the electricity.

see my first inclination after not seeing a drop of water (i saw that you did that) would have been to refill it and confirm a leak. if you had done this you would have saved everyone a lot of time and money. What you did was equivalent of running your car out of gas and calling the dealer for warrantee work.

People who consider Coscto spas should really only do so if they are true DIYers and they should stick to the simpler rotomolded $3k or maybe $4k types IMO. If they are someone who isn't a true DIYer or they're looking at some of those $6k, 7k and 8k offerings I see at Costco nowadays I think thats not a great idea.

[Roger]

If I was a tub owner like arf and my warranty was about to expire I would of done the same thing. Call first so as not to waste the last remaining warranty. I probably would have refilled then and tried to figure it out. But I know a lot of people who wouldn't even think about trying to figure it out. And I know people everywhere in between.

It really says nothing about the level of service except that a manufacturer has to be very careful with this kind of stuff to be sure. It is likely one of the many causes so many manufacturers have failed at Big Box stores. If you figure they sell 1000 tubs a year, and that's likely low nationally. Giving away even the reduced rate of 75 bucks per hour and the calls average say 2 hours that's 150 bucks times say how many service calls? 1000. Do the math, chaching.

[arf1410]

If, hypothetically I had purchased the spa at a small spa dealer, how does this scenario play out differently?

[Roger]

If, hypothetically I had purchased the spa at a small spa dealer, how does this scenario play out differently?

They get paid quicker. By you.

[arf1410]

So, in Rogers opinion, in this case the consumer (me) came out ahead dealing with 1-800- strong than if I had purchased from a local dealer...

[Dr. Spa]

I think you got lucky, assuming they don't come back and bill you.

I've been in this business over 30 years, done warranty work for probably 20+ different manufacturers, and ALL of them, would never have reimbursed/paid me for something that was operator error.

[Dr. Spa]

Will they come back and bill you? I think it highly unlikely. Most manufacturers monitor these boards and and this is probably some of the cheapest and best PR they could ever ask for.

It wouldn't surprise me though if this "rookie" mistake isn't corrected in the future, and from here on out they inform everyone that calls that if the problem is operator error, the costs of the service person wont be covered under warranty.

[n1oty]

I had a similar situation three years ago, but while doing service for Master Spas. In this case, it was leaking and obviously chemical damage.........very bad chemical damage. Being the ultra-honest sort, I informed the customer that this fell outside the terms of warranty, that the factory probably wouldn't pay, but that I would at least call tech support at Master to see what they wanted to do. After all, it was a warranty between Master and their customer. The dealer, after selling a tub to a guy on Cape Cod, refused to travel that distance to service the tub.

Tech support authorized repair of the tub on their dime. I repaired the tub, submitted the invoice to Master Spas and they reneged. Thank God I always inform customers that they are responsible for any part of the bill NOT paid by the manufacturer. The customer wasn't happy, but understood my position and paid. I have continued to service this guy's tub for spring recommissioning and fall winterization ever since (the dealer still won't travel to service this guy and Master doesn't care).

I hope Strong doesn't pull on you and your tech what Master pulled in my situation. Good luck.

John

[Roger]

I would be willing to bet if arf calls for service again he will get a different tech from a different company.

[Spa_Guru]

Being a repair pro for many years, I can concur that what the other repairmen have stated is correct.

Reading arf's comments about feeling no obligation to pay the repairman is typical of consumer attitude, which is why it is the repairman's responsibility to make perfectly clear to the consumer what warranty does and does not cover.

The only way the repairman is going to get $220 out of Strong is to claim on an invoice to have repaired a significant leak - commit a fraudulent act.

Some repairmen would rather anonymously commit a crime than honestly bill a hostile customer.

Customers don't "get it" that the repairman has no liability for the spa warranty, it is entirely on the factory.

I too, started in this business in the mid eighties doing exclusively warranty work, back then it paid $20-$25 per call and was miseable thankless work, POed customers who were still angry at the salesman who sold it to them, haranging me as if I personally had taken their money.

You learn to be even tempered and diplomatic - and you also learn right away that some things just aren't going to be paid, so like Roger, I insisted dealers pay me directly, and hash out their own payments with the factories or customers.

Then the dealer could chose to either eat the cost for PR purposes, bill the customer, or bill the factory.

This policy means that 20+ years later, i am still in business, and most of the dealers and factories aren't.

Let me say lastly that if Strong is actually paying $225 for service calls for warranty regardless of situation, they should contact me, because I'll take a piece of that.

[Roger]

Let me say lastly that if Strong is actually paying $225 for service calls for warranty regardless of situation, they should contact me, because I'll take a piece of that.

No S**T I wish they were a good brand for Minnesota winters. But alas, they are not. They will never do well in this part of the country.

[arf1410]

Have a bit of a problem with 2 of your comments:

"/1/ Reading arf's comments about feeling no obligation to pay the repairman is typical of consumer attitude, which is why it is the repairman's responsibility to make perfectly clear to the consumer what warranty does and does not cover.

/2/ The only way the repairman is going to get $220 out of Strong is to claim on an invoice to have repaired a significant leak - commit a fraudulent act."

/1/ since my contractual relationship is with Strong, I'm not necessarily opposed to paying Strong, or possibly even the repair man if they request it

/2/ I don't know how you (or me) could possibly know for certain what type of contract or obiligation is between Strong and Mr. Repairman. As Strong is a large company, and I live in a major metro area, it would seem likely they had some sort of arrangement with a repair man here, as opposed to just trying to find someone when I called a month ago. Though I have zero experience with this industry, I've never before heard of a repairman who didn't have a set minimum truck or trip charge. UNlike a repairman who is servicing a product his store sells, and has no choice, why in the world a repairman would agree to a job (or even doing any business for Strong) without a minimum payment is just beyond me. I can't imagine all repairmen are that stupid?

[Roger]

As Strong is a large company,

Umm Strong is a very small company. The company I work for has 120 office employees and 500-1500 field employees and is considered small. I dout Strong has even close to that. Don't kid yourself. They were a stuggling company that signed on with Costco to increase sales.

[n1oty]

I've been in the repair side of this business since 1984 when my father and I had an appliance/refrigeration repair shop and Jacuzzi Whirlpool Bath walked through our door seeking competent service in the eastern Massachusetts area. They were having trouble with their prior servicer's inability to properly and promptly diagnose electrical issues on their most recent hot tubs, like the Avanza, which featured multiple DC coil relays, bridge rectifiers and reed switches for on/off control of functions.

Back in the 80's, the larger bath and hot tub manufacturers made generally more robust products and paid a bit better in order to get service from technician's who actually had formal schooling in electrical/electronic troubleshooting.

The mid-90's brought a sea change to the bath and hot tub industry with a number of start up manufacturers developing the low end section of this business. With the low end, low cost tubs came the need from manufacturers and dealers to trim warranty costs. That included selecting technicians based on hourly rate, not necessarily on formal training, experience and skill. We even have one pool/spa dealer in Rhode Island who advertises in the Providence Journal every spring for a hot tub tech. His ad always specifies "No Experience Necessary, We Will Train".

I have actually carved out a lucrative niche for myself in this current environment by being heavily skilled and formally trained in electrical/electronic matters. The general skill level in this trade has deteriorated so badly over the past 20 years that long term pro's with a savvy skill set make very good money repairing the problems created by incompetent servicers. I also make very good money consulting with insurance firms on home losses due to electrician or technician ineptitude. Ineptitude abounds, believe me. Apollo217, who has posted previously in this thread, is one of many local dealers that call on me when needed and can attest to the bizarre things that happen when homeowners, electricians or "techs" do strange, non-code compliant things, use improper parts or use improper materials.

So much for industry background, let's get back to the case at hand. Other experienced tech's have pointed out in this thread (and others) how they handle the initial interaction with the customer. I make it very plain that the customer pays all charges not covered by the manufacturer. In some cases, I will not contract directly with the manufacturer and I inform the customer they must pay me when I come out and they will have to chase the manufacturer.

Finally, I refer you back to Strong Spa's own warranty:

http://www.strongspas.com/assets/files/strong_warranty.pdf

Misuse or failure to operate the equipment according to the instructions in the manual is specifically excluded from any coverage. If something was left turned on that should have been turned off before being covered would be misuse. Even if Strong decided to cover this "repair", their warranty does NOT cover travel and/or service call charges. It only covers a maximum of $80 for labor time.

Locally, I get $150 for a service call, which includes the first half hour of on-site diagnostic time. I get $110 per hour after that. If I had two hours on your tub and discerned a non-warrantable condition, you'd have my bill for $315. At best, Strong might cover $80 of that.

John

Have a bit of a problem with 2 of your comments:

"/1/ Reading arf's comments about feeling no obligation to pay the repairman is typical of consumer attitude, which is why it is the repairman's responsibility to make perfectly clear to the consumer what warranty does and does not cover.

/2/ The only way the repairman is going to get $220 out of Strong is to claim on an invoice to have repaired a significant leak - commit a fraudulent act."

/1/ since my contractual relationship is with Strong, I'm not necessarily opposed to paying Strong, or possibly even the repair man if they request it

/2/ I don't know how you (or me) could possibly know for certain what type of contract or obiligation is between Strong and Mr. Repairman. As Strong is a large company, and I live in a major metro area, it would seem likely they had some sort of arrangement with a repair man here, as opposed to just trying to find someone when I called a month ago. Though I have zero experience with this industry, I've never before heard of a repairman who didn't have a set minimum truck or trip charge. UNlike a repairman who is servicing a product his store sells, and has no choice, why in the world a repairman would agree to a job (or even doing any business for Strong) without a minimum payment is just beyond me. I can't imagine all repairmen are that stupid?

[arf1410]

Why in the world would a repairman agree to to business with Strong if he would only get paid $80 for a job that he would normally charge $300+ for?

Also, I would think to some extent, the job of Spa repairing (at least of the electronic components) has gone the way of most other electronic repairs...even of high end equipment, they are probably not doing much true, high skill repairs anymore...just remove and replace the broken component, rather than actually fix it.

[Apollo217]

Why in the world would a repairman agree to to business with Strong if he would only get paid $80 for a job that he would normally charge $300+ for?

Also, I would think to some extent, the job of Spa repairing (at least of the electronic components) has gone the way of most other electronic repairs...even of high end equipment, they are probably not doing much true, high skill repairs anymore...just remove and replace the broken component, rather than actually fix it

Because that's probably all he can get. You are probably right on your second point to a point. Most spa techs I know use trial and error to figure out why something isn't working with the exception of john who is by far the best spa tech I have seen in my 20 years in the industry. I don't know spa guru but by reading a number of his posts in this forum you can tell he is very knowledgable and most likely an excellent tech. Where we are I alway get people squeaking about our prices ad they call on the cheaper guy to come out. More often then not they realize that their are very few tech who actually understand what they are doing

[n1oty]

The really good technician's do NOT accept such low numbers from manufacturers. Any work that I do for brands that pay so little, I contract directly with the customer for payment of the entire invoice on the spot and let the customer get reimbursed by the manufacturer. Strong is not the only brand in this industry with a pathetic warranty reimbursement for techs. I routinely get called twice a year by tech support at Premium Leisure (the old Hydro Spas) asking if I'll service their tubs. My answer is always no, unless the customer wants to call me direct and contract specifically with me on my terms. This policy has proved very lucrative for me.

Oh, and not all tech's are simply parts changers. Some of us are highly skilled, trained and experienced with electronic repair.

John

Why in the world would a repairman agree to to business with Strong if he would only get paid $80 for a job that he would normally charge $300+ for?

Also, I would think to some extent, the job of Spa repairing (at least of the electronic components) has gone the way of most other electronic repairs...even of high end equipment, they are probably not doing much true, high skill repairs anymore...just remove and replace the broken component, rather than actually fix it.