Scam

[poollady]

Has anyone else heard about this?

We've heard of a scam involving shipping a spa overseas to an orphanage in Ghana. The way the scam works, a church official here in the States "associated with the orphanage" contacts the manufacturer or a dealer asking about a spa. The contact may be via an e-mail or "IM Relay" in which an operator calls and dictates a computer instant messaging conversation. After several of these conversations, the official wants to order the spa and pay with his "valued Mastercard". He also wants to use a shipping company of his choice, which you are required to pay up front via check and then add the shipping to the total billed to the credit card. The credit card turns out to be stolen, and you'd be out any money paid to the shipping company. Presumably if you played along with it long enough someone would come and pick up the spa, too.

[flibotte]

I'm guessing most real orphanages in Ghana probably can't afford a hot tub.

[Trigger]

I'm guessing most real orphanages in Ghana probably can't afford a hot tub.

And of all the things an orphanage in Gahna would need, I'm thinking a hot ub would pretty far down the list.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Has anyone else heard about this?

We've heard of a scam involving shipping a spa overseas to an orphanage in Ghana. The way the scam works, a church official here in the States "associated with the orphanage" contacts the manufacturer or a dealer asking about a spa. The contact may be via an e-mail or "IM Relay" in which an operator calls and dictates a computer instant messaging conversation. After several of these conversations, the official wants to order the spa and pay with his "valued Mastercard". He also wants to use a shipping company of his choice, which you are required to pay up front via check and then add the shipping to the total billed to the credit card. The credit card turns out to be stolen, and you'd be out any money paid to the shipping company. Presumably if you played along with it long enough someone would come and pick up the spa, too.

Old scam. Heard it before with my own ears!!!!

[Chas]

I got a call once from a relay service - the phone call just got started when a supervisor from the relay company interrupted the call and told me they thought the call was a scam. They offered me the chance to continue or just hang up. I thanked them and hung up.

I bet it was one of these scams - and the ralay service must get enough of them to be aware of it.

I have heard that others who sell big-ticket items are also approached for this scam.

The one thing which still puzzles me is that the amount of work involved in setting up a scam like these usually represents about the same amount of work a person would have to do to earn an honest buck in thousands of different ways. I really think that these people do this just for the thrill of 'taking' somebody, not strictly for the money. Or they just don't have any experience in doing honest work and earning an honest buck.

Years ago I had a guy come into the store and try something related - he offered to buy dozens of spas and export them. He said he had tried going to the plant, but they wanted all sorts of extra this and that out of him and he didn't have time to jump through their hoops. So if I wanted the order, all I had to do was give him a huge discount, order the spas, and deliver them all to one address in Long Beach.

He had a huge convoluted story about what he was going to do with these tubs.

Bottom line - at the end of our negotiations, I offered him a very good discount. He said he would do it, but that he wanted one tub first to be sure I could deliver as promised. That one tub would be delivered to his home...

That was the hook. All he was trying to do was get himself a new tub at a huge discount - the rest of the order didn't exist. I said that I would be glad to deliver his tub - but that it would be full price and we could take the savings out of the next dozen spas when they were paid for.

As he was leaving, I was already on the phone to the other dealers I knew to give them the heads up. Not surprisingly, two others had already had visits from him and had sent him off - but had never thought to call anyone else and offer a heads up.

[Dr. Spa]

Simple rule #1 with international sales.... WIRE TRANSFER ONLY! And make it clear right at the beginning of the conversation. 99.9% of the time they'll hang up the phone.

[poollady]

I got a call once from a relay service - the phone call just got started when a supervisor from the relay company interrupted the call and told me they thought the call was a scam. They offered me the chance to continue or just hang up. I thanked them and hung up.

I bet it was one of these scams - and the ralay service must get enough of them to be aware of it.

I have heard that others who sell big-ticket items are also approached for this scam.

The one thing which still puzzles me is that the amount of work involved in setting up a scam like these usually represents about the same amount of work a person would have to do to earn an honest buck in thousands of different ways. I really think that these people do this just for the thrill of 'taking' somebody, not strictly for the money. Or they just don't have any experience in doing honest work and earning an honest buck.

Years ago I had a guy come into the store and try something related - he offered to buy dozens of spas and export them. He said he had tried going to the plant, but they wanted all sorts of extra this and that out of him and he didn't have time to jump through their hoops. So if I wanted the order, all I had to do was give him a huge discount, order the spas, and deliver them all to one address in Long Beach.

He had a huge convoluted story about what he was going to do with these tubs.

Bottom line - at the end of our negotiations, I offered him a very good discount. He said he would do it, but that he wanted one tub first to be sure I could deliver as promised. That one tub would be delivered to his home...

That was the hook. All he was trying to do was get himself a new tub at a huge discount - the rest of the order didn't exist. I said that I would be glad to deliver his tub - but that it would be full price and we could take the savings out of the next dozen spas when they were paid for.

As he was leaving, I was already on the phone to the other dealers I knew to give them the heads up. Not surprisingly, two others had already had visits from him and had sent him off - but had never thought to call anyone else and offer a heads up.

Amazing!

[Brulan1]

Amazing!

Yeah that is fishy. 4 years ago I got taken for a fool. These men in there early 30's purchased a spa from us on a credit card with the same last name and they wanted to take it upstate NY to there winter home. They picked it up as planed and the credit card was stopped but it was too late. I think it was the guys fathers credit card and he reported it as not purchasing a 5000 dollar item. They made off scott free. The lesson is if you sell the hot tub to always deliver it unless they pay cash or check and if it is a check 1st it has to clear before you can release the spa. They got me pretty good and I learned a valuable lesson

[Jim_The_Jim]

Yeah that is fishy. 4 years ago I got taken for a fool. These men in there early 30's purchased a spa from us on a credit card with the same last name and they wanted to take it upstate NY to there winter home. They picked it up as planed and the credit card was stopped but it was too late. I think it was the guys fathers credit card and he reported it as not purchasing a 5000 dollar item. They made off scott free. The lesson is if you sell the hot tub to always deliver it unless they pay cash or check and if it is a check 1st it has to clear before you can release the spa. They got me pretty good and I learned a valuable lesson

We had a guy named Erik try to rip us off on a Super Custom Fallsburg using a credit card scam back in 2000. This guy is a sociopath for sure. After the spa arrived he decided to contact the credit card company and get his money back. Then he called me and told me that I better give into his demands or I would be sorry. You can read about it by searching Credit Card Scams. We gave this particular scam his name, because he was the first to try it with us. We call it the "Erik S Scam"

I have not ever regretted taking that spa back and selling it to someone who really loves it and still is using it today, even though we lost about $2K on the deal. We did not lose our integrity over this. I do feel sorry for anyone who has any dealings with Erik S. He also stole some of the items in the package. The GFCI, was never returned, the Blanket, the cover butler, and the chemicals only partly came back. That is because he is a theif.

[Richs100]

We had a guy named Erik try to rip us off on a Super Custom Fallsburg using a credit card scam back in 2000. This guy is a sociopath for sure. After the spa arrived he decided to contact the credit card company and get his money back. Then he called me and told me that I better give into his demands or I would be sorry. You can read about it by searching Credit Card Scams. We gave this particular scam his name, because he was the first to try it with us. We call it the "Erik S Scam"

I have not ever regretted taking that spa back and selling it to someone who really loves it and still is using it today, even though we lost about $2K on the deal. We did not lose our integrity over this. I do feel sorry for anyone who has any dealings with Erik S. He also stole some of the items in the package. The GFCI, was never returned, the Blanket, the cover butler, and the chemicals only partly came back. That is because he is a theif.

Jim:

I had promised myself that I would not participate in your inane posts and just ignore them from here on out, but your dredging up of the "Selberg Affair" in response to a thread about credit card scams was just too much. Why you would ever want to bring this situation back to the surface is beyond me! (for anyone unfamiliar with this saga, just google "Erik Selberg" and click "buying a spa" on his webpage)

Your story may have qualified as a "scam" if you had actually sent your customer what he ordered to begin with. But that didn't happen. The part of the story where I fell out of my chair is when Selberg discovers A DIVERTER VALVE on your supposed Super Custom Fallsburg! The one and only thing that you always rant about. A DIVERTER VALVE! How embarassing! Obviously, you sent him a Phoenix spa that had only been re-branded with your labels and nothing else.

I've always wanted to ask you if you even saw that spa before it was shipped off to your dear customer. At that point, (after drinking the Koolaid at your website) Selberg must have had a heart attack when he saw that valve! I think there was a "scam" happening there, but I'm not sure Selberg was the scammer! Selberg was very lucky that he used his credit card on that transaction. I can only imagine how it would have turned out if he had paid cash. And BTW, its spelled "thief" not "theif". (i before e, except after c)

[Roger]

One guy in Colorado calls it the Eric Scam, thousands of posters and proffesionals in the industry call it The Eric Selberg Saga, let the readers be the judge. nuff said

[Autoplay]

Zim Conjuna is a self promoted scam artist.

[duck_man]

Who would fall for that? Does the orphanage also need a Bentley?

[hottublady]

Has anyone else heard about this?

We've heard of a scam involving shipping a spa overseas to an orphanage in Ghana. The way the scam works, a church official here in the States "associated with the orphanage" contacts the manufacturer or a dealer asking about a spa. The contact may be via an e-mail or "IM Relay" in which an operator calls and dictates a computer instant messaging conversation. After several of these conversations, the official wants to order the spa and pay with his "valued Mastercard". He also wants to use a shipping company of his choice, which you are required to pay up front via check and then add the shipping to the total billed to the credit card. The credit card turns out to be stolen, and you'd be out any money paid to the shipping company. Presumably if you played along with it long enough someone would come and pick up the spa, too.

Where do you work? Is it Olympic Hot Tub Company?

[Chas]

'Jim_The_Jim' date='May 20 2007, 12:06 AM' post='26675' - " we lost about $2K on the deal. We did not lose our integrity over this. "

Based solely upon the emails that went back and forth between you and Mr. Selberg, it is my opinion that you did lose any shred of credibitily.

[Trigger]

We had a guy named Erik try to rip us off on a Super Custom Fallsburg using a credit card scam back in 2000. This guy is a sociopath for sure. After the spa arrived he decided to contact the credit card company and get his money back. Then he called me and told me that I better give into his demands or I would be sorry. You can read about it by searching Credit Card Scams. We gave this particular scam his name, because he was the first to try it with us. We call it the "Erik S Scam"

I have not ever regretted taking that spa back and selling it to someone who really loves it and still is using it today, even though we lost about $2K on the deal. We did not lose our integrity over this. I do feel sorry for anyone who has any dealings with Erik S. He also stole some of the items in the package. The GFCI, was never returned, the Blanket, the cover butler, and the chemicals only partly came back. That is because he is a theif.

That's an outright lie Jim. An absolute outright lie.

The simple fact that you can't admit to making a mistake and getting over it shows why a lying deranged lunatic you are. Honestly. You screwed it up, but refused to handle it like a decent professional. To this day you lie about it and try to cover up an obvious screw up. The fact that you can't admit it as an unfortunate event, but insist on calling this guy a thief shows what a nut bag you are.

Anyone who wants to know the truth can go to : http://www.selberg.org/~speed/erik_journal.html

Folks can read the account of Jim's half arsed operations and make up their own mind. Don't take my word for it, don’t take Jims. Read for yourself.

And then ask, "If Jim calls this a scam, what else is he lying about? (Since he claims he never lies).

[Flyonthewall]

That's an outright lie Jim. An absolute outright lie.

The simple fact that you can't admit to making a mistake and getting over it shows why a lying deranged lunatic you are. Honestly. You screwed it up, but refused to handle it like a decent professional. To this day you lie about it and try to cover up an obvious screw up. The fact that you can't admit it as an unfortunate event, but insist on calling this guy a thief shows what a nut bag you are.

Anyone who wants to know the truth can go to : http://www.selberg.org/~speed/erik_journal.html

Folks can read the account of Jim's half arsed operations and make up their own mind. Don't take my word for it, don’t take Jims. Read for yourself.

And then ask, "If Jim calls this a scam, what else is he lying about? (Since he claims he never lies).

[/quote

I read the entire Erik v. Jim the Jim saga. wow. what a sad story. i kept waiting for the happy ending. it just wasn't happening though. Jim, for you to call the customer a thief and scammer with all the documented communication between you borders on libelous. It was obvious to observers he wanted the spa taken back soon after you first offered it. When you called his counter offer a ridiculous insult i nearly fell out of my chair. If you are still operating this way i would expect to see you deliver your spa in a covered wagon, reccomending snake oil as the sanitizer. if anyone hasn't read the incident in question please click on trigger's link above to know what j the j is really about.

[Richs100]

Well, Jim, once again, it looks like you have shot yourself in your own foot.

As I said in my earlier post, I am just stunned that you would voluntarily bring up the Erik Selberg situation in this thread.

It certainly was not among your finest moments, to say the least.

Now you have succeeded in educating a new batch of hot tub people (owners, dealers and prospective customers) as to

how the Spa Specialist takes care of its own mistake when it sent the wrong tub to a new customer. And a defective one, at that.

You might also want to take note not one single person who has read about this saga that has voiced any support for your version of the events. No one, except you, thinks this guy was a thief or a scammer. That says something, huh?

I don't know whether to question your intelligence or your sanity!

I've given up on your business acumen.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Actually not Charlie. This guys email specifically says it all.

We offered to have his spa replaced with a new one, that I was going to personally build and deliver it to him.

While we were going to repair the original spa and he had the original spa we were going to charge back half of his amount until the new spa was delivered. Then charge the full amount back to his credit card.

That was not what he wanted. He wanted the spa for 1/2 off.

If I had allowed him to rip us off, that would be wrong in anybody's eyes.

It all depends on how much "venom" you have towards me what you want to believe there Chas. And you know what I think of you.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Here is a real scam that is going around.

These guys find people selling items on ebay, then they out bid the rest to get the deal.

The guy contacts you and says he is in France or some other country, using broken english.

When it is time for the payment they send out three times the amount in "cashiers checks" or "money orders" on a foreign bank and they look all official. until you examine the checks closely and they are all screwed up with ink erros and different densities of background.

You are supposed to cash these checks and wire two checks worth of money to the "shipper" by Western Union, because the "shipper only takes cash".

After you wire the money, then the conterfiet checks are returned to your bank. You are held responsible for the money.

This guy did this to me, but I did not send the money to anyone. I cashed one check and waited 20 days for it to clear. It did not.

The guy calls me on my phone from some "relay" system phone number out of MI, demanding that I send the money to the shipper right away or he is going to report me to the FBI.

I laughed at him and said, after the first check clears in 14 days, I will put the secind one in and wait until it clears, then 14 days later I will put in the last check. I figgure by July 30 he would get his money if the checks are real. The guy starts threatening me that he is going to report me to the FBI again.

I enjoyed messing with him and have all the evidence to give to the feds. There is nothing they can do because it is a net work and most of the internet stuff is from a foreign country all fake names and fake ids.

[Trigger]

Jim you are a liar.

Anyone can read for themeselves exactly what happened.

After several months of trying to get your rebranded 2nd rate tub fixed he said:

Give me a discount or come and take the tub away.

That's not a scam.

Maybe in your world of third party warrenties, and rebranded horse barn tubs it is, but to anyone in the business world it's common sense.

ALL businees have unsatisified customers. The fact that you cannot emotionaly deal with it is your problem, not ours.

Anyhow, this latest barrage of posts from you is an obvious last ditch attempt by you to try and draw attention to yourself and maybe sell a POS cut rate tub.