Should I Pay Extra For Ozone.

[sparific]

Was told today that ozone was not required and would cost extra for a relatively expensive tub.

Do I need it?

Do I want it?

Should I avoid this company for not including it?

[Wizzard of spas]

If you place two of the same hot-tubs side by side, one with, and one without Ozone,the one with ozone is going to have sharper, crisper looking water. Ozone is a great suppliment to any pool, or spa sanaitation program. If Ozone is installed on your spa you will have less of a drop in free avaliable sanatizer per usage. You will not be adding sanatizer, as often as someone not using Ozone. If you can afford Ozone put it in. Just do it. it is definatly worth it. If I'm doing a sale, I might add a free Ozinator to get it. A JED 103 Ozinator, Corona discharge Retails for 150.00 installed otherwise. I may give you a free coverlift. Ozone is not necessary, however it is always a great idea. It's only going to help you. Avoid the ultraviolet light generators, as they do not last as long in my opinion.

PS, Many dealers Sell tubs as they come from the factory. Things like, steps, coverlifts, ozinators, cemicals, and in some cases covers; upgrades, are extra. in a normal situation, a sales person might be able to toss one of these items in; not in all cases. Did you get any freebees? chems? free deleviry? If your sales person tossed in a free disco light, pay for the ozinator you'll be glad you did. Ozinators are not always Standard equipement, and most Tubs today come OZONE redy.

[waterbear]

I would pass on the ozone. It is not needed and can do more 'harm than good, if it does anything at all.

First, ozone is NOT a residual sanitizer and must be used with a fast acting residual santizer such as bromine, chlorine, or Siver/MPS. It does not allow you to run a lower chlorine or bromine level than without it but, under the right conditions can reduce sanitizer demand, which is a different thing. However, it can also increase sanitizer demand, depending on how the tub is used.

Ozone can be useful in a high bather load situation to help reduce chloramnes but it destroys chlorine and vice versa so it often increases chlorine demand in practice. It does not allow you to use a lower level of chlorine, as some mistakenly believe, but under the right circumstances might allow you to use less chlorine to achieve the SAME required chlorine level than without. However, that is often not the case and you end up having to put MORE chlorine into the tub to maintain the required level than without ozone. If you do not use the tub every day and do not have a high bather load it will very possibly INCREASE your sanitizer demand.

Ozone is probably a bit more useful with bromine since it will help oxidize the bromide ions in the water (your bromide reserve) back into hypobromous acid (your active bromine sanitizer) but it also tends to deplete the reserve by oxidizing some fo the bromide into non renewable bromate However, this is usually a non issue as long as you are doing water changes every 3-4 months (which is normal hot tub maintenance with or without ozone. It is probably not going to do much for a properly maintained silver/MPS system because the MPS residual in the water would make it redundant.

Finally, most people do not realize that ozone is toxic. There is supposed to be no ozone residual in the water in the tub but that is often not the case since many ozone units are not installed with reaction chambers but just bubbled into the tub water Ozone can collect under the tub cover as it gasses off, can destroy covers, and can be irritating to bathers' lungs if no allowed to dissipate before entering the tub. The good news is that most tub ozone units are UV and they really are not that effective so no a lot of ozone gets into the water.

As Wizzard of Spas noted a CD ozone unit is the effective type but they do require such things a drying chambers and reaction chambers to use them properly. They are often not installed that way so the bottom line is ozone just becomes a selling tool for the dealer to 'upgrade' you.

With all that being said ozone CAN be useful in certain situations. It is useful in INDOOR pools to help with peristant chloraine problems and can be useful in HIGH USE spas (usually commercial or a very small residential one that does not contain very much water) for the same reason. However, as I said before, this would require an effective ozone unit and that is not usually the type installed on residential spas.

[Spanky]

The debate over the value of Ozone in a residential spa is always an interesting one. There are valid points on both sides.

The fact is, most tubs today are either shipped with an ozonator or are "Ozone Ready". In my situation, (High use Bromine) I believe there is some benifit but the unit was "included" with the tub. Most CD units have a life expectancy of about 2 years in continuous use. When mine burned out I replaced it with an aftermarket DEL unit for about $80 which also has the advantage of replaceable CD chips.

So in answer to the question Should I pay extra?, I'd say NO but if they happen to throw it in, that's a different story.

[hjames710]

It also depends how much extra it would be. If it's less than $125 I'd do it, but if it's any more, I wouldn't. As they said, most tub come ready for an ozone unit, so you can always add one. You can pick up a Del MCD-50 for about $100. This is the unit my tub came with, it seems to do its job well.

[Spanky]

The Del MCD-50 is rated for 5yrs. continuous use and has a replaceable chip.

[Orion6192]

We are looking at the Jacuzzi J345 and they do not have Ozone on them starting this year... They went to Clear Ray UV. So now we're into another variable.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

You're not gaining or losing by the ozone going away with the UV replacing it IMO though I'm with others about the idea of not wanting to replace bulbs yearly (or 18 months or however often they recommend). I'd ignore that part of the sales pitch.

[njmurvin]

One other point to consider. Does your spa have a 24hr circulation pump or does it run on a schedule (e.g. 4 hours/day)? I have an ozonator and my Marquis is of the latter type. Since the ozonator only works while the water is circulating, it's nearly useless for me. I didn't know any of this at the time I bought it. At least it was a "free" upgrade. Oh, and they tossed in a "free" spa frog too (just about as worthless as the ozonator).

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Very good point. While I do believe ozone gives you somewhat of an advantage in water care, if you don't have a 24/7 circ pump doing your fitlering and its the bigger pump only on 4 hrs or so per day then its really not going to amount to much.

[waterbear]

UV is pretty much useless in a spa. It has some value in INDOOR pools (usually commercial) to combat persistent combined chloramines and volatile oxidation byproducts. It has NO residual effect and the only sanitizing takes place in the small amount of water in direct contact with the bulb. Don't waste your money!

[chem geek]

I think it really comes down to how often the spa is used and whether chlorine or bromine is used. A properly sized ozonator works well for chlorine spas with heavier bather loads, so ones that are used every day or two. This is because they can oxidize some of the bather waste so that chlorine doesn't have to and that can result in a lower chlorine demand. However, in a chlorine spa that is used less frequently, say once or twice a week, it can result in a higher chlorine demand due to ozone oxidizing chlorine so it doesn't make sense to use in low bather-load chlorine spas. In a bromine spa, the ozone can activate more bromine assuming you've got a bromide bank (though it also produces bromate so don't drink the spa water -- it doesn't have skin absorption, fortunately).

[Hot Spring Ace]

UV is pretty much useless in a spa. It has some value in INDOOR pools (usually commercial) to combat persistent combined chloramines and volatile oxidation byproducts. It has NO residual effect and the only sanitizing takes place in the small amount of water in direct contact with the bulb. Don't waste your money!

I've never seen UV systems as doing much in spas anyway and the bulb replacement cost is an issue for many but "totally useless"? I guess I don't undersand how their use in spas is that much different than indoor pools but I'll defer to the experts like you guys.

[waterbear]

Spas tend to be uncovered during the day to shock them so they tend to get sunlight while indoor pools do not. Also, most spas are outside to volatile oxidation byproducts can outgas without negative impact on the air quality. Since indoor pools are more limited n air exchange it becomes a problem. Also, spas have their water changed regularly while pools generally do not so for these reasons (and more) UV tends to be superfluous for spas in actual use. IMHO, the money spent on them could be much better spent on upgrades to the jets, circulation system, etc.

[Trigger]

I'll bite.

I have a dichlor tub with a corona discharge ozinator that runs 24/7 and I think it makes a huge difference and would strongly recommend one. This past year, I haven't been using my tub as much as I'd like and I've gone WEEKs without adding sanitzer and the water quality is still great. I contribute this to the O3. Purely anecdotal evidence, but for me it works.

[waterbear]

if you are going for weeks without adding sanitizer then I assume you also have been not going into the tub in that time, correct?

]The tub has been covered so there has been very little sanitizer demand and the tub was properly santized after last use, correct?

How are you defining 'great' water quality?

Do you mean the water is clear or have you taken bacteriological readings?

Or are your test readings showing that the santizer level is where it is supposed to be?

How many weeks is "WEEKs"? 1, 2, or 10?

Have you ever measured your sanitizer demand (amount needed to maintain a desired FC level) based on your tub usage with the ozone on and off?

A bit more info would be helpful!

Just because the water is clear when you uncover the tub does not mean the water is safe to soak in!

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I'll bite.

I have a dichlor tub with a corona discharge ozinator that runs 24/7 and I think it makes a huge difference and would strongly recommend one. This past year, I haven't been using my tub as much as I'd like and I've gone WEEKs without adding sanitzer and the water quality is still great. I contribute this to the O3. Purely anecdotal evidence, but for me it works.

I never thought UV zone was worth much and that part didn't surprise me when they said as much as I've told people over the years not to bother with UV systems and not to bother with the replacement bulbs.

However, I've seen good results with CD ozone also but I know these guys know their stuff. I'll use the CD type for what I think it gives me though I totally agree with those than say you can do without any of them altogether and be fine.

[Spanky]

This debate can obviously rage on forever, so I’m going to jump in with what I’ll call “Facts” and “Realities”

Let’s start with Ozone

FACTS

Ozone is a highly effective sanitizer for water (commonly used in the purification of bottled water)

Ozone has the ability to oxidize Bromide to active Bromine (Only applicable to a Bromine Spa)

REALITIES

The average CD unit generates roughly 30 -50 mg/hr. That measurement applies to the concentration inside the generator, NOT what reaches in the water. First of all the ozone must travel along a plastic tube. Remember that ozone will essentially oxidize anything it comes in contact with, so the first loss (a substantial one) is found there. That’s why the first few feet of tubing has to be regularly replaced. Next the remaining ozone is injected into the water stream. The longer the ozone is contained in the water the better the chances it has of doing it’s intended job. The reality is that that even in the best designed tub, this is only a few seconds, at best. On the positive side, ozone is such a powerful oxidizer that there is no doubt that at least some amount of oxidization took place but nowhere near the amount that marketing would like you to believe. In a nutshell that’s why we have a debate. It’s not whether or not ozone does anything, it’s more about does it do enough to justify the expense .

Moving on to UV lamps

FACTS

UV (UV-C) is proven to be effective in destroying bacteria in water (commonly used in municipal water treatment systems)

REALITIES

The killing power of VU-C is a combination of energy level (power output) and dwell time. Given that the average spa circulation pump pushes water at 10 -15 GPM, the dwell time within an inline UV chamber would be in the realm of milliseconds. The power output of these lamps is less than 20W total; therefore I personally have difficulty believing that these units would be capable of killing anything. In contrast water treatment plants use multiple banks of mercury vapour lamps in the range of 1000W/inch which requires several hundred amps @ 600V to operate. A far cry from the units found in a spa.

[Dr. Spa]

Ozone CAN BE a highly effective sanitizer for water(commonly used in the purification of bottled water)...but it depends on how it's applied. For commercial water systems, the air is run through an air drier to eliminate any humidity, a chiller to bring the air temp close to freezing and an oxygen generator to increase the oxygen content of the air, all before the air passes through the ozone generator. Then it's injected into the water under GREAT pressure, and at great depths to to maximize the contact time of the o3 with the water. NONE OF THIS IS DONE ON A SPA.

[justintime]

I recently had an ozonator installed. I was having some warranty work done and mentioned that I was looking to switch away from Baquaspa after several frustrating years. He said the easiest/best thing to do would be to install an ozonator and switch to chlorine. Clearly not having as much knowledge as many of you, I went with it, but now you're making me think I made the wrong decision.

In any case, I'm not sure about water chemistry now. 500 gallon tub, used 1-2 times a week by 2-3 people. Assuming the ozonator is working properly, how much/often do I need to add chlorine/check the water. I was used to my 1-2-3 once weekly regimen on Baqua and realized I am clueless about this switch to an ozonator/chlorine system. And is the bottle of oxidizer I was sold pretty much useless with the ozonator?

[chem geek]

If you were using the tub every day or two, then the ozonator would likely be useful since it could oxidize some bather waste and therefore lower chlorine demand. However, with your 1-2 times per week usage, it's more likely that the ozonator is going to increase your chlorine usage in between your soaks and that can be frustrating for you since you'll need to add chlorine more frequently. Whereas with no ozonator you'd probably be able to add chlorine once mid-week in addition to your dosing after your soak, with the ozonator that might not be good enough and you may need to add chlorine at least every couple of days.

See the sticky for the Dichlor-then-bleach method.

[waterbear]

Ozone CAN BE a highly effective sanitizer for water(commonly used in the purification of bottled water)...but it depends on how it's applied. For commercial water systems, the air is run through an air drier to eliminate any humidity, a chiller to bring the air temp close to freezing and an oxygen generator to increase the oxygen content of the air, all before the air passes through the ozone generator. Then it's injected into the water under GREAT pressure, and at great depths to to maximize the contact time of the o3 with the water. NONE OF THIS IS DONE ON A SPA.

Pay attention everyone! THIS IS WHY ozone is not really useful in spas (and most pools also!)

[GaTub]

Since you brought up industrial systems- I may be a newbie at hot tubs but not at water on a large scale.

Years back I was the engineer responsible for a water bottling plant that used ozone for sterilization. We injected the ozonated air into the water using a venturi and then ran the water into the bottom of very tall cylindrical tanks to maximize contact time. The tanks had to be vented to let the air out and a special carbon filter system was used to get most of the ozone out of the exhaust air. I spent a lot of time working to maximize O3 concentration and contact time, and also to keep the ozone out of the air in the factory. Things I learned- it actually takes a very high ozone level to completely sterilize, ozone is extremely corrosive, and it is very nasty stuff to breathe even at low concentrations. I do not have ozone in my tub. It may work OK if the system really produces enough ozone to do any good, but then I don't ever want to smell the stuff again and the thought of it accumulating in the air under the cover is a real downer.

Our tub came with the Sundance UV system. Its a far cry from the industrial UV systems that I have used and even the industrial systems are only good for reducing micro, not sterilizing. So I don't know how much the little hot tub UV system helps, but at least there are no downsides other than replacing the bulb.