justintime

^ Okay, thanks. I will try to add some baking soda without aeration and see if that gets the TA up without raising Ph too much. Is it harmful to get in the tub with a low TA?

I have been having a similar problem in that my TA is also low - in the 20-30 range, but my Ph has been stable in the 7.4-7.6 range. I use a bromine floater and do have an ozonator. If I use baking powder to raise the TA, this also raises the Ph, and then when I try to lower Ph again by adding acid, this obviously lowers my TA again. It seems like a circular problem I can't work my way out of. Is there a way to raise the TA without raising the Ph also? And what level is appropriate for TA? I thought around 100 was right, but reading the above makes it sound like ~50 is okay. Is there any risk with getting in a tub with low TA but correct Ph/bromine/CH?

Thanks for the reply. $200-$500 is actually less than I feared. I'll call my dealer and see what they say though they in the past have been very reticent to do anything they didn't know up-front that Sundance was going to cover. May be worth a call to Sundance as well.

After finally getting my water chemistry switched from BaquaSpa to bromine, I now have a more serious issue. A leak. It drops the water level a couple of inches per week. I took the front panels off and didn't notice anything. I took the back panel off and noticed a wet spot on the foam, but it seemed to actually be coming from outside-in not inside-out. I.e. the back panel was fixed about an inch below the lip of the tub and it looks like water got in as I can see streaks from the top of the back panel to the wet spot. In any case the back is covered with spary foam, so I don't see how I could find the leak without ripping all the foam out. So I'm looking for some help. And finally, there was a leak at the pump motor about three months ago that was replaced under warranty. Since that replacement, the tub sat unused for a little while and then for the past month I have been purging the spa and cleaning and doing refills which is why I never noticed the leak until now. The quandry is that in that time the warranty expired. I am wondering if the pump motor wasn't the only thing leaking at the time - i.e. did they not fix everything that needed to be fixed? If not, then what are my chances of getting this covered by the warranty since the original leak issue happened while under warranty just a few months ago? It is a Sundance spa, BTW.

Got it. And yes, that answers my question perfectly. Thanks as always. You all are great!

Thanks chem geek and Spanky. I was going to ask about the "bleach after soak" as waterbear's guide only points to weekly chlorine shock. But it sounds like with my 2 people, 2x/week, 20 minutes each I am okay with just the weekly shock. I don't think I would want to carry a bottle of bleach with me every time I ventured out. So that I have a better understanding, can someone explain the need for the shock. If it is just to activate the bromine, but my bromine levels are maintained within the desired range, why is it necessary? Earlier when my bromine levels were so high, you all suggested I could skip the shock. But let's say I maintain a pretty steady rate of ~7ppm. It goes down after a soak, but the floater brings it back up relatively quickly to 7ppm. I am guessing I should still shock the tub weekly, but I am unclear as to why exactly? Thanks for helping to educate me.

Okay, just tested the water tonight, and after 4+ days of no floater, the bromine levels are now at 5ppm. I am going to put the Pentair in and will likely set it pretty low and see how things go. Hopefully the floater was the issue re: the bromine spiking. Question: What is the desired "normal" range for bromine? Waterbear's tutorial says 4-9ppm, but in a post above, Spanky says 3-5ppm. So which is correct? Bather usage is roughly two people on average two times per week if that matters.

As suspected, bromine levels spiked back up (stopped measuring when I got >13ppm) when I put the floater in. I left the floater out for two days, ran the jets several times, and the levels only got down to ~9ppm. I know that using the tub would help, but then again I know you're not supposed to get in the tub with bromine levels at 10ppm+. Should it take this long, without the floater in, for bromine levels to drop? My Pentair floater did arrive, so I am ready to switch once the levels subside. Hopefully that will help.

Do yourself a big favour and pick up a Pentair. Some floater designs allow the entire chamber to flood with water thus allowing all tabs inside to dissolve simultaneously. The slot adjustments are basically useless. The pentair stacks the tabs in a center tube which is "air tight" allowing only the lower "exposed" tabs to come in contact with the water. Basically the same principal as inserting a plastic straw into the water with your thumb over the top. The water cannot enter the straw. Thanks yet again waterbear and spanky. I think this is likely part of the problem, if not the main one. I was wondering about just this issue, as the floater clearly lets the entire chamber flood, and I couldn't figure out how this would regulate the bromine dispersal. I will order the Pentair today. I did re-check bromine levels on Sunday. We had a party the night before and the tub got a lot of use. So apparently if I leave the floater out for two days and then have eight people in the tub that is one way to get the bromine levels down as they were about 1-2ppm on Sunday. I put the floater back in, so I am curious to check to see if bromine spiked again due to the cheap floater. As always, I will report back.

Thanks all. I will skip shocking this week. Yes, the tabs are definitely bromine. My floater doesn't look like that, but it does look more "basic" than the Pentair. I adjusted it so that the opening is as small a I can get it, and I will check the levels again today and report back.

I measured my bromine levels last night after leaving the floater out for ~24 hours. The levels had dropped from 11ppm to 8ppm. Ran the jets for ~40 minutes, but the level didn't change much. So I left the floater out again and will see how long it takes to get it back down to the normal range. Of course I am supposed to shock it again this weekend which will only make them spike back up. So should I shock or not?

So my bromine levels were high at 13ppm. I took the floater out and ran the jets for an hour and that only lowered it to ~11ppm. Again this was early evening, so no sun to help out, but should running the jets for an hour lower it more quickly? pH was 7.4 if that matters. After I shocked it on Sunday after the initial fill and water balancing, I think the bromine levels were even higher, like 16ppm. Is this normal? Or is this due to me having just added the sodium bromide? For now I took the floater out and will check it again tomorrow.

^Is that the Pentair floater seen here: http://www.amazon.co...bromine+floater

Great. Thanks Spanky. Methinks I was sold a cheap floater as I don't recall seing a locking ring. Just a twist to open it up to one or two slots per side. I could be wrong though, so will check tonight when I get home. Also, are there any negative effects to the spa itself from high bromine levels? I ask b/c I think I was still around 10ppm when I closed it up on Sunday, and I put the floater in it, but I also have an ozonator. For various reasons I didn't get back out Monday to check levels, and yesterday it poured all night, so today will be the first day I will be able to adjust it, and I'm betting its going to be high. Just wasn't sure if this would cause any damage to anything to maintain higher than normal bromine levels for an extended period of time.

Thanks for the reply. I was doing this in the early evening, so the sun wasn't much help in burning off the excess. Taking the floater out for the night is a good recommendation that I will use next time. That brings up one other question I had. Does it matter how many bromine tabs you put in the floater? My tendency would be to err on the side of more vs. less (i.e. fill it all the way up) to give me some leeway in case I somehow forget to fill it. Is this okay?

Got it. Thanks. So bear with me here ... just want to ensure I am doing everything right. On step 3 (shock) of Waterbear's tuorial, I am now an hour in on the circulation following shocking with the bleach and trying to get bromine below 10ppm. Is this normal? Am I going to need to circulate for an hour+ every week after shocking or is it just longer on initial start-up?

Okay, so I have my Taylor kit and am testing the water. A question on pH. This was the test I had the hardest time reading the test strips on. Now with the Taylor I'm not sure it's any easier telling the difference in the gradation of red. I first looked down into the tube and it looked pretty red. Then I looked at it from the front (i.e. like you're supposed to) and it looked like the pH was ~8.0. Then I realized I was looking at it with the dark brown spa steps behind the tube. So then I held it up to the sunlight and when I did that it looked to me like it the pH was ~7.6. So are you supposed to hold it up to the light when you do the reading? The color difference between 7.6 and 7.8 sure seems minimal. Maybe I just need more practice reading these?

Yes, definitely! I have my two new filters ready to go. My test kit came today (two days from Amato Industries!). Now I just need to go get my chemicals this weekend and I should be all set to start.

Got it. Thanks again to everyone. I'll let you know how it goes. I need to wait to get my test kit though before I fill the tub again and embark on this.

Thanks Waterbear. I'll see if I can return the oxidizer to the store then. It also sounds like if I shock a little more often than even I need to that might help mitigate the formation of bromamines and therefore the smell. Is that correct? I think I am just about ready to go. You said the "two uses of borax are done much differently!" Can you help me with what I need to do to use it as a pH buffer instead of just using it to raise pH?

A continual thanks to all who are helping me out with this. So I think I will go ahead with the three-step bromine approach. So three last (okay probably not really last) questions: 1) So if I use bleach per the instructions, is that the "oxidizer"? I have a bottle of Brilliance Oxidizer I was sold - didn't know what it was for honestly. 2) Waterbears instruction say to use borax to raise pH, but arches2, do you use it as a pH buffer? I.e. should I add some borax even if my pH is fine? If so, how much (540 gallon spa)? 3) Any tips on how to keep down the potential for the bromine to smell? Thanks as always!

Okay, so a little more reading answered some of the questions, I.e. it appears that the mineral sticks are useless. So mark that off the list. Chlorine seems a bit too "needy" for my situation. I.e. requires too much day to day attention. So mark that off the list. BaquaSpa causes me throat irritation/coughing. So mark that off the list. So the only thing left is the three step bromine approach. Is that correct or is there any other system/approach I am missing? I am fine going with bromine, as it sounds right for my situation, but I am now worried about smell/coughing again.

Thanks for the replies. I have been trying to read about three step bromine in the interim and have a couple of questions. It seems like there are a lot of complaints about the bromine smell and even some complaints of throat irritation/coughing. One of the reasons we are switching from Baqua is the irritation/coughing that we would experience quite often. I definitely don't want to risk going back to that, nor do I want the spa to have a distinctive smell. On the other hand, it does seem like the bromine doesn't require as much maintenance as chlorine which is definitely what I am looking for. So I'm torn. I have read a little bit about mineral sticks like Spa Frog and Nature 2 that you place in your filter. If I am reading correctly, these would allow you to use lower levels of bromine, so I am thinking maybe that would reduce the risk of the smell/throat irritation. Is this true? Oh, and in case it matters I have a Sundance Optima that I believe is ~540 gallons.

So after four frustrating years I am switching from BaquaSpa. I have tried to read a lot, but still have a few questions and was hoping someone could help me out so I don't screw this up. I am planning to switch to the Dichlor/bleach method. I have already done the decontamination suggested in the sticky to try to purge the residual Baqua goo from my pipes. My concern is that I am not the best at regularly adding chemicals which is why I went w/ BaquaSpa in the first place. Upon hearing I wanted to switch, Mmy spa company sold me on an ozonator saying that with it I would only need to add chlorine once a week or so. But we only use the tub (2 people) on average twice a week. In reading the forum it sounds like I might have to add chlorine more frequently since I have an ozonator. Also got sold a bottle of oxidizer which I'm not even sure I need. Do I? Is there any method that, given our use profile, will allow me to only add chemicals once a week (and/or after a soak)? Oh, and I understand you need to get the stabilizer (CYA) up. Is that contained in the dichlor or is that something separate? Thanks in advance from an admitted chemistry neophyte!

I recently had an ozonator installed. I was having some warranty work done and mentioned that I was looking to switch away from Baquaspa after several frustrating years. He said the easiest/best thing to do would be to install an ozonator and switch to chlorine. Clearly not having as much knowledge as many of you, I went with it, but now you're making me think I made the wrong decision. In any case, I'm not sure about water chemistry now. 500 gallon tub, used 1-2 times a week by 2-3 people. Assuming the ozonator is working properly, how much/often do I need to add chlorine/check the water. I was used to my 1-2-3 once weekly regimen on Baqua and realized I am clueless about this switch to an ozonator/chlorine system. And is the bottle of oxidizer I was sold pretty much useless with the ozonator?