How To Know The Cell Is Working?

[ulao]

Ok so I bought a new cell as the old one was going. I did install it backwards and learned that was a nono, so I installed it the right way. I then saw I had no chlorine, so I shocked waiting 1 hr and I register just below 3.0. I let my pool run till 5:00pm ( 6 hours after )and let it sit over night. Now I the morning my test says 1.0. Its about 90 degrees here ( FL USA ), with no rain. Is this normal, or is my cell not working? This is my first summer, I normally run from 11:am to 5:pm and that has worked out ok for the winter. I need to know if the cell is any good because my 30 days are nearing and its not a cheep item.

Also note: my system says the cell is on, and the production is set to 85%, my salinity at 3.1. No errors are being reported.

[waterbear]

Ok so I bought a new cell as the old one was going. I did install it backwards and learned that was a nono, so I installed it the right way. I then saw I had no chlorine, so I shocked waiting 1 hr and I register just below 3.0. I let my pool run till 5:00pm ( 6 hours after )and let it sit over night. Now I the morning my test says 1.0. Its about 90 degrees here ( FL USA ), with no rain. Is this normal, or is my cell not working? This is my first summer, I normally run from 11:am to 5:pm and that has worked out ok for the winter. I need to know if the cell is any good because my 30 days are nearing and its not a cheep item.

Also note: my system says the cell is on, and the production is set to 85%, my salinity at 3.1. No errors are being reported.

What is the CYA and pH?

Have you tested water right out of the cell to see if there is chlorine being generated? (just loosen the union to collect some.

[Pool Clown]

Have you tested water right out of the cell to see if there is chlorine being generated? (just loosen the union to collect some.

+1, However...

You need to do this when the pool CL level is low, so you don't mistake the Cl in the pool for Cl production.

[ulao]

Thx for the help.

Well the CL level out of the cell is .4, the pool is 1.0 or so. I did this while it was not running, is that right? I have not tested the other levels but I can do that as well.

Also with my old cell I always had a visible white solution in my cell union , I dont see that now.

Also my generator ran four about 4 hrs today forward, and backward.

[jkusmier]

I surmise that 3.1 corresponds to a salt level of 3100ppm. I would bump that up a bit. I don't know what type of cell you have but I can't imagine it varies much since they all employ electrolysis; the manual for my Pentair IntelliChlor says that the operational range is 3000-4500ppm, but per intellichlor.net the recommended range is 3200-3500ppm. At the bottom of this page is a table instructing you how much salt to add to reach 3400 ppm. It can take a couple of days for the salt to fully dissolve and circulate.

You can confirm the cell is producing chlorine by setting its output level to 100%, waiting a few minutes and observing the flow from your returns. If you see a cloud of tiny bubbles coming from the returns, it's working. Those bubbles are hydrogen gas, a natural byproduct of the electrolysis that also produces chlorine gas. The effect is strikingly visible if you don goggles and jump in the pool. You'll see long cloudy streams coming from the returns.

You should determine your pool's gallonage and confirm that your cell has the capacity to produce enough chlorine on a daily basis to adequately sanitize your pool. If, e.g., you have a 17,000 gallon pool and a cell rated for a 20,000 gallon pool, you'll have to run the cell at very high output (such as 85%) to maintain FC at the recommended range of 2-4 or 2-5ppm. In such cases, your cell will struggle to maintain adequate FC, and have a diminished life expectancy. I and others here believe that you should use an oversized cell, i.e. a cell rated at 2x your pool's gallonage. My pool holds approximately 16,500 gallons and I run my IntelliChlor model IC40 (rated for a 40,000 gallon pool) at ~35% output during much of the season.

Have you checked your CYA (cyanuric acid, aka stabilizer or conditioner) level? In a hot, sunny climate like FL, proper CYA level is especially critical to maintaining your FC. Recommended level for a salt pool is 70-80ppm, although Chem Geek once posted a study that showed that even trace amounts of CYA are beneficial. But you'll want your CYA at 70-80ppm. UV radiation degrades hypochlorous very rapidly (I recall reading that you can lose as much as 50% of your unshielded FC within a single hour of noonday sun). CYA dissolves very slowly, so you'll want to expose it to flow. I do this by placing a skimmer sock over my skimmer basket, then pouring CYA directly into the skimmer basket while the pump is running, 1 cup at a time, until I reach my desired level. The warmer the water is, the faster it will dissolve, but note that it won't dissolve entirely in the skimmer - the particles will dissolve to the point where they can pass through the weave of the skimmer sock, and will then lodge in the filter medium (sand for me) until they dissolve completely. Excessive CYA is a very bad thing - a fact well documented by many pool owners who can't maintain FC after using pucks and tabs. So take care to add the CYA incrementally, a cupful at a time, over a period of days, allowing several hours for each cup to dissolve and circulate, then testing your CYA level before adding more. CYA can drop over the offseason (mine routinely drops to undetectable levels during our 7-month offseason) but during the swim season the only way to reduce your CYA is through partial drains and refills to dilute to the desired level. So be patient - you'll want to get it right the first time, then periodically bump it up a bit after heavy rains cause overflow or require you to drain a high water level back down to normal.

[ulao]

jkusmier, wow. That was helpful! Well my CyA is yet to be determined. I read up on this and see how the low levels can effect my CL production. My ph was way high and I'll have to report back if I feel there is still an issue.

I did the 100 production test a few hours after my wife shocked the pool. At that time the pool was 1.5 ( ideal ) and the amount out of the union was the same. I did not see any sign of phis/bubble or color out of the jets. Maybe this is due to the fact the pool was shocked? I'd suspect to see the effect when set to 100% production regardless.

Also my manual says salinity should be from 3.1-3.5. My guess is I need it more on the higher end for summer? Though it has not dropped in the last time I added salt ( 4 days or so )

BTW: Information that was not included in this post. The cell was put in backwards to begin with. I had not learned that was a problem for a few days after the replacement. I read doing this could create harmful gasses. Could it also mess up the CyA ? Sorry for the ignorant question.

[waterbear]

No but it is entirely possible that installing the cell backwards has damaged the cell and rendered it inoperative, which I think might have happened to yours.

[ulao]

waterbear, thx so much again insightful.

Ideal was the marking on the test kit for chlorine, not my opinion.

The test kit is a 4 in 1 drop based test kit. I can test for the following.

chlorine test ( 1.5/3.0) yellow

ph test ( greater the 8.2 bright red )

acid demand test (4-5 drops)

total alk test ( 8 drop ( 80 ) )

If I can find a kit to tel CYL I will add that above. I think I can return my cell no problem, but is it worth trying an acid bath? I did use the OTO test during cell on, and its was yellow same as the pool.

FYI: This test was done at 7:00 pm and the shock was added at 10:00 am. The cell ran til 6:00 pm. ( not sure that is helpful )

also want to add I have a 10,000 gallon pool ( just a little thing ). and a plc700 jandy generator. " Cell For pools up to 12,000 gal ". I have always ran it at 85% but currently 87. If I get the option ill go for a 20 gal gen. but I'm $500 set back at Jandy's mercy pending a return.

[waterbear]

If you are in the US get a Taylor K-2006 test kit. Amato Industries sells it online for a good price and it is available from several other online retailers also.

[ulao]

Ya, in the US, I see a few Taylor K-2006's on ebay as well. I loosened the output union after the cell to get my water for the test, presuming that is a good way to test, then I guess my cell is gone. Guessing there is not much I can do to fix it?

[jkusmier]

No but it is entirely possible that installing the cell backwards has damaged the cell and rendered it inoperative, which I think might have happened to yours.

I thought the same thing when reading today but I can't post remotely from an iPhone. I would not volunteer any information about installing the cell backwards when you call for warranty service!

[ulao]

Thx guys, looks like Jandy will come out to review the installation. I wont be saying much other then , this is how it was installed.

UPDATE:

My wife added 2 cups of CYL("balance") acid to "balance the ph" as we kept getting strange readings from the ph test. Very red, to clear over night. As a result the chlorine is staying above 3.0. We are going to get our water tested today and get a full read out of the values. However I still dont see hydrogen bubbles from return. No response from Jandy yet.

[ulao]

Results:

Total Chlorine 2.0 ppm

free Chlorine 2.0 ppm

combined 0

PH 7.0

base demand 2

Total Alkalinity 50 ppm

Calcium hardness 440 ppm

stabilizer 30 ppm

total dissolved solids 4900 ppm

salt 3300 ppm

It was recommended to do 7 pounds of alkalinity and 3.1 pounds of stabilizer.

I'm Adding the pre-mixed stabilized as instructed ( same as instructed in this thread ) via skimmer cup every few hours. And we had added 3.5 pounds of alkalinity thus far.

[waterbear]

Thx guys, looks like Jandy will come out to review the installation. I wont be saying much other then , this is how it was installed.

UPDATE:

My wife added 2 cups of CYL("balance") acid to "balance the ph" as we kept getting strange readings from the ph test. Very red, to clear over night. As a result the chlorine is staying above 3.0. We are going to get our water tested today and get a full read out of the values. However I still dont see hydrogen bubbles from return. No response from Jandy yet.

This post makes no sense at all. The pH test does not go from red to clear. and has no effect on where the chlorine will stay. Also, what is the ingredients in CYL? Never heard of it.

[ulao]

We use backing soda. Noticed that a ways back it was the same thing.

As to the CYL, I commonly make that mistake I mean CYA. The bottle says "PH balance". We did a PH test and it was red at 7:00pm. In the morning we did the test again and it was clear ( maybe a hint of red, not much ). never really saw that before, always got some color to it.

[waterbear]

We use backing soda. Noticed that a ways back it was the same thing.

As to the CYL, I commonly make that mistake I mean CYA. The bottle says "PH balance". We did a PH test and it was red at 7:00pm. In the morning we did the test again and it was clear ( maybe a hint of red, not much ). never really saw that before, always got some color to it.

pH balance is not the same as CYA. CYA has nothing to do with pH! It is a chlorine stabilizer. It will help maintain more pH staibility in a salt pool for very technical reasons but it has NOTHING to do directly with pH so it would not come in a jar labels pH balance! What is the ingredient listed on the bottle? pH test does not change from red to clear, that sounds like a DPD chlorine test. pH test has a color range from yellow to orange to red to red violet as ph rises.

Like I said, your post made no sense.

You need to get a reliable test kit that will test what you need to test. Once again I recommend a Taylor K-2006.

[ulao]

Well that is why I said CYA, it say "100% Cyanuric acid" on the bottle for ingredients. Hey nothing make much sense to me, its all new. Just trying to learn here. We are getting the Taylor K-2006. but I figure the test from a company ( results above ) would be good enough. I have yet to receive my Taylor K-2006.

Today, my current test kit shows PH about 6.0 and Chlorine at 2.0 still.

My guess is to add a bit more baking soda to get the ph up? Still adding the recommended stabilized.

[waterbear]

Well that is why I said CYA, it say "100% Cyanuric acid" on the bottle for ingredients. Hey nothing make much sense to me, its all new. Just trying to learn here. We are getting the Taylor K-2006. but I figure the test from a company ( results above ) would be good enough. I have yet to receive my Taylor K-2006.

Today, my current test kit shows PH about 6.0 and Chlorine at 2.0 still.

My guess is to add a bit more baking soda to get the ph up? Still adding the recommended stabilized.

Pool test kits only test pH in the range of 6.8 to 8.2. What are you testing pH with?

[ulao]

Ok going to get some Borax. 6.0 was my guess as it was a bit below 6.8 sorry for the confusion. Will report my tk test kit ( yes that is the one I bought )results.