Frustrated !

[bdubya200]

I bet that when you paint walls, you get done in 5 minutes by always using such a wide brush.

I use the same brush that waterbear uses, I was taught by a master. No doubt he would give the same advice. Poor Alan has not been able to enjoy his tub because of misinformation. I simply stated that if he switched to 3 step bromine or Dichlor/bleach he would not be up at 3:00 in the morning posting about water chemistry nightmares.

Those tub owners that have a knowledgeable dealer like hillbilly hottub have no need for this forum. It is those that go to "sales" people that come here for advice. There is alot a advice on this board. No need to FLAME me because you don't agree with what i said.

Alan read the hot topics and choose your method, then stick with it.

Im not flaming. You speak in broad terms like " most stores and esspecially the one you went to know nothing about proper water chemistry. " and " you dont see electric water heaters" and the such, when yu dont really have any real clue as to what you are talking about, but state things as if they are indisputable fact. By my count, youve had a hot tub for about 2 months, yet you are quite smug with many of your replies on water chemistry as if you are some seasoned veteran and , quite frankly, talk down to people re: their chosen method if it isnt the same as yours. You tell the guy his water chemistry is just fine, but then rag on his choice of sanitizer and chide him about switching. Im sorry that you didnt do your homework before you got a tub and screwed up and caught nasties in your tub. It stinks and Im genuinely sorry for your hassle and I DO use your expereince as a cautionary tale. However, just because you didnt do your homework and had some health issues for you and yours bc you went into a salesmans's den and got taken, doesnt mean you need to shout from the rooftops about 'most' pool/spa stores not knowing what they are talking about when you have no clue what you are talking about. Its fine to say " my store is bad,' or "there are stores that dont know", but please dont use boogeyman tactics that could scare less observant people away from the good dealers out there that DO know what they are doing, just because you screwed up.

[chem geek]

What is the next step take out the cartridge or let it run with everything in and keep fingers crossed?

Just remove the Nature 2 and you'll be fine. You now have a bromine tub so just try that out and see if that works for you. The use of bromine tabs in a feeder is more convenient for some people than the Dichlor-then-bleach method unless they are using the tub every day or two. Follow waterbear's bromine instructions. If you decide to try Dichlor-then-bleach, then you can do that on your next water change (you can't convert from bromine to chlorine without a water change).

[Itchy and Scratchy]

You are beginning to confuse even me. You are talking about putting bromine into a baquaspa then adding dichlor. You need to unlearn what you have learned and listen to the advice of one knowledgeable person. My advice, ask waterbear how to properly decontaminate your baquaspa then follow 3 step bromine to the letter. I am new to tub water chemistry myself. I am on week 9 of 3 step bromine in my 180 gal tub. I use it daily and have never had any chemistry issues with it.

To me it sounds like you need to start out with an easy failsafe method, that would be 3 step bromine. How many times can I advise you of this. Why do you post asking for advice and then do your own thing only to come back with more questions? Have you read the hot topics yet???

[alan1]

[itchy and scratchy u need to relax !!! let me sum up where i am at now:

1-Used soft soak - didnt work gooey stuff

2- drianed and refilled and tried again - NO good second time around

3-drained again today ,bleached both filters and washed out all stuff.- added nature 2 and ph up alkalinity, shock etc and bromine which was my mistake

4- NO gooey stuff and just took out nature 2 cartridge - now i have a bromine tub and need to read the forums on the bromine water chemistry..

So is that ok now , NO more gooey stuff and will take my water in tomorrow for readings to see where i stand with the chemicals from today , is this ok ?

[waterbear]

First DO NOT USE THE NATURE 2 WITH BROMINE!!!!!! not compatible! (chem geek already told you this, did he not?)

I never mentioned Nature 2 and bromine incompatibility (disclosure about Nature 2 came after my post), but Hillbilly Hot Tub did.

Sorry my bad! I knew someone did. It's difficult to post and try and stop the barrage of spam that the board has been hit with this weekend!

[waterbear]

[itchy and scratchy u need to relax !!! let me sum up where i am at now:

3-drained again today ,bleached both filters and washed out all stuff.- added nature 2 and ph up alkalinity, shock etc and bromine which was my mistake

REPLACE THE FILTERS!!!!!!!! I believe I mentioned this before, no?

So is that ok now , NO more gooey stuff and will take my water in tomorrow for readings to see where i stand with the chemicals from today , is this ok ?

Not really, you need to TEST FIRST AND THEN ADD OR ADJUST CHEMICALS SO YOU KNOW WHAT TO ADD, HOW MUCH TO ADD, AND WHEN TO ADD IT!!!! Just dumping in chemicals is partly what got you into trouble in the first place. If you had done the biguanide correctly you would not have had as much goo this quickly. You still would have had goo, it comes with the terrirtory, just not so much so fast) You mixed incompatible chemicals.

Order yourself a Taylor K-2106.

FWIW, On another Poolforum that I have been an active member on for many years my signature reads "You can lead a pool owner to water but you can't make them think" Perhaps I will add that one to my sig here also.

[alan1]

Waterbear - first i did add each chemical to spa while jets were on and waited 30 minutes prior to putting in next chemicals , i didnt just dump it all in at once ..I removed the mineral cartridge and will get my water tested today and see where i stand and i already have a taylor test kit

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Waterbear - first i did add each chemical to spa while jets were on and waited 30 minutes prior to putting in next chemicals , i didnt just dump it all in at once ..I removed the mineral cartridge and will get my water tested today and see where i stand and i already have a taylor test kit

i dont think water bear was saying you dumped them in all at once and it is what caused the issue, he is saying you were justing using a bunch of different chemicals, not knowing what they were or why you were putting them in, this added to your goop, and even with a different system such as bromine, if you do not understand what you are adding, how much, why you are adding it and what it does, you will have goop again. As i said earlier, pick a system you want to use, at the top of the forum there are write ups on each system(except biguinade) print these directions, plastic coat them and bring them out to the hot tub everytime you test it. Listen to 1 knowledgable person so you do not get suggestions intermixed and you should be ok. i think the smart choice is bromine for you untill you get a bit of a handle on water chemistry. print off waater bears directions, read them through once first, then follow them. They are very good and easy to follow.

[waterbear]

Waterbear - first i did add each chemical to spa while jets were on and waited 30 minutes prior to putting in next chemicals , i didnt just dump it all in at once ..I removed the mineral cartridge and will get my water tested today and see where i stand and i already have a taylor test kit

TEST FIRST AND THEN ADD OR ADJUST CHEMICALS SO YOU KNOW WHAT TO ADD, HOW MUCH TO ADD, AND WHEN TO ADD IT!!!!

which taylor kit...model number please..it will be on the front

what were your baseline readings before yo added any chemical

what did you need to adjust first

I bet you don't answer my questions

[waterbear]

Waterbear - first i did add each chemical to spa while jets were on and waited 30 minutes prior to putting in next chemicals , i didnt just dump it all in at once ..I removed the mineral cartridge and will get my water tested today and see where i stand and i already have a taylor test kit

i dont think water bear was saying you dumped them in all at once and it is what caused the issue, he is saying you were justing using a bunch of different chemicals, not knowing what they were or why you were putting them in, this added to your goop, and even with a different system such as bromine, if you do not understand what you are adding, how much, why you are adding it and what it does, you will have goop again. As i said earlier, pick a system you want to use, at the top of the forum there are write ups on each system(except biguinade) print these directions, plastic coat them and bring them out to the hot tub everytime you test it. Listen to 1 knowledgable person so you do not get suggestions intermixed and you should be ok. i think the smart choice is bromine for you untill you get a bit of a handle on water chemistry. print off waater bears directions, read them through once first, then follow them. They are very good and easy to follow.

Exactly!

[alan1]

Waterbear- can u just take a deep breathe here !! relax big guy , i trust that u know what ur doing and read ur bromine 3 step process. My fill of tub results with ZERO chemicals etc were :

Bromine- 0

Ph- 6.3

Total Alkalinity- 27

Hardness-68

I first increased alkalinity, waited 30 min, then increased ph waitted 30 min. , then calcium hardness, then bromine, then some scale control and today went to dealer with Alex water testing machine and my levels were the following

PH- 7.2, Bromine- 0.2, alkalinity 143, Hardness 100 am i doing ok ? I know i didnt follow ur 3 step products from grocery store etc, but once i get this going and perfect readings i will be following it .. Please big guy im new at this and understand everything ur saying, i should have NEVER started with the Soft soak junk in the first place...

Today i used tub and going to add some more ph , calcium hardness, and bromine (this is from the readings from the Alex water machine at dealer)

[waterbear]

Waterbear- can u just take a deep breathe here !! relax big guy , i trust that u know what ur doing and read ur bromine 3 step process. My fill of tub results with ZERO chemicals etc were :

Bromine- 0

Ph- 6.3

Total Alkalinity- 27

Hardness-68

I first increased alkalinity, waited 30 min, then increased ph waitted 30 min. , then calcium hardness, then bromine, then some scale control and today went to dealer with Alex water testing machine and my levels were the following

PH- 7.2, Bromine- 0.2, alkalinity 143, Hardness 100 am i doing ok ? I know i didnt follow ur 3 step products from grocery store etc, but once i get this going and perfect readings i will be following it .. Please big guy im new at this and understand everything ur saying, i should have NEVER started with the Soft soak junk in the first place...

Today i used tub and going to add some more ph , calcium hardness, and bromine (this is from the readings from the Alex water machine at dealer)

I had written a lengthly answer to you and I just lost my whole post and I really don't have the time or energy to waste posting my answer to you again. Just know that the ALEX software system is notorious for over dosing on chemicals since it is designed to increase a dealer's bottom line and not balance your water. If your water is balanced the dealer cannot sell you anything.

I will say that right now your total alkalinity is TOO HIGH at 143 and needs to be lowered, not raised. and that adding pH increaser (sodium carbonate) increases BOTH pH and total alkalinity. You need to test BOTH pH and TA after ajusting either one and you need to know which chemical you need to adjust them.

Alkalinity increaser-Sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) will raise TA and will cause pH to move to around 8.0 as carbon dioxide gases off but is not very useful when the pH is very low

pH increaser-Sodium carbonate will raise pH when it is very low BUT is also raises TA faster than sodium bicarbonate. However, when the pH is below 7.0 the TA is also going to be very low! (unless you aerate to outgas CO2 which also raises pH but does not have any effect on TA

Borax (sodium tetraborate, which is also sold in pool/spa supplies--Your Bioguard dealer used to sell Optimizer, which was just expensive borax, now the sell optimizer plus which is a mixture of borax and boric acid to be more pH neutal) raises pH but has minimal effect on TA. It will cause it to rise slightly and is dosed at twice the amount of sodium carbonate for the same pH rise.

Have you added sodium bromide to create your bromide bank? From your readings I would have to say no. If you do not create a bromine reserve on filling then, depending on whether you are using BCDMH or DBDMH bromine tablets you either are running a chlorine spa for the first several weeks or you have a spa that will not maintain a proper bromine level for several weeks.

Did you test your water after each addition of chemicals you made? I am assuming no and I do not think you have a test kit since you did not answer my previous questions.

Good luck with your spa, you will need it.

BTW, your problem is not that you started with SoftSoak, you started without a gameplan and even now you don't want to follow a sound one.

Have you even replaced the filters? This is a NECESSARY step when converting from biguanide to halogens.

[JimKW]

Alan, I feel for you man. This should not be anywhere near this hard to do. I also feel for anybody reading this who is thinking of buying their first Hot Tub. Don't be discouraged by this, it's not the norm believe me.

[david_bilton]

Waterbear- can u just take a deep breathe here !! relax big guy , i trust that u know what ur doing and read ur bromine 3 step process. My fill of tub results with ZERO chemicals etc were :

Bromine- 0

Ph- 6.3

Total Alkalinity- 27

Hardness-68

I first increased alkalinity, waited 30 min, then increased ph waitted 30 min. , then calcium hardness, then bromine, then some scale control and today went to dealer with Alex water testing machine and my levels were the following

PH- 7.2, Bromine- 0.2, alkalinity 143, Hardness 100 am i doing ok ? I know i didnt follow ur 3 step products from grocery store etc, but once i get this going and perfect readings i will be following it .. Please big guy im new at this and understand everything ur saying, i should have NEVER started with the Soft soak junk in the first place...

Today i used tub and going to add some more ph , calcium hardness, and bromine (this is from the readings from the Alex water machine at dealer)

I had written a lengthly answer to you and I just lost my whole post and I really don't have the time or energy to waste posting my answer to you again. Just know that the ALEX software system is notorious for over dosing on chemicals since it is designed to increase a dealer's bottom line and not balance your water. If your water is balanced the dealer cannot sell you anything.

I will say that right now your total alkalinity is TOO HIGH at 143 and needs to be lowered, not raised. and that adding pH increaser (sodium carbonate) increases BOTH pH and total alkalinity. You need to test BOTH pH and TA after ajusting either one and you need to know which chemical you need to adjust them.

Alkalinity increaser-Sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) will raise TA and will cause pH to move to around 8.0 as carbon dioxide gases off but is not very useful when the pH is very low

pH increaser-Sodium carbonate will raise pH when it is very low BUT is also raises TA faster than sodium bicarbonate. However, when the pH is below 7.0 the TA is also going to be very low! (unless you aerate to outgas CO2 which also raises pH but does not have any effect on TA

Borax (sodium tetraborate, which is also sold in pool/spa supplies--Your Bioguard dealer used to sell Optimizer, which was just expensive borax, now the sell optimizer plus which is a mixture of borax and boric acid to be more pH neutal) raises pH but has minimal effect on TA. It will cause it to rise slightly and is dosed at twice the amount of sodium carbonate for the same pH rise.

Have you added sodium bromide to create your bromide bank? From your readings I would have to say no. If you do not create a bromine reserve on filling then, depending on whether you are using BCDMH or DBDMH bromine tablets you either are running a chlorine spa for the first several weeks or you have a spa that will not maintain a proper bromine level for several weeks.

Did you test your water after each addition of chemicals you made? I am assuming no and I do not think you have a test kit since you did not answer my previous questions.

Good luck with your spa, you will need it.

BTW, your problem is not that you started with SoftSoak, you started without a gameplan and even now you don't want to follow a sound one.

Have you even replaced the filters? This is a NECESSARY step when converting from biguanide to halogens.

Alex and all the rest of them are all the same programed to sell chems

[Even Further]

I'm a new tub owner too. Get a good test kit.

I went with a Lamotte ColorQ that does 288 tests, for each type.

I still take samples in to reference my ColorQ results, once in awhile.

The ColorQ has proved to be accurate.

I couldn't imagine relying on test strips, or anything else.

I tried a couple strips that I received with my hot tub. No thanks.

In my area, the pool/spa supply store knows nothing, even though they act confident. I'm at a luck of the draw, each employee's answers will vary. They can barely test the water on their own. I have to tell them what system (Bromine) I'm using so they actually test for the correct sanitizer. They will just grab my test bottle and test away, without even knowing what their testing for. One employee will interject another without even knowing if its a pool or hot tub. I imagine if I worked there, my first question to a customer would be, is it a pool or hot tub. They don't even know to ask that right off the bat. It's pathetic.

I've had great success filling with tap water, in a clean used spa. Balancing the water, while testing multiple times. Then adding sanitizer, while testing multiple times.

[footie]

A good example of the difference between test strips and a proper test kit, brother-in-law's tub read 160+ for TA but on the actual test kit using the tablets I got a proper reading of 100. The only thing they appear to be close on is Ch/Br and pH, anything else seems to be miles out.

Needless to say I have taken steps and ordered him a proper test kit, 5 years into tub ownership and was still using test strips.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Waterbear- can u just take a deep breathe here !! relax big guy , i trust that u know what ur doing and read ur bromine 3 step process. My fill of tub results with ZERO chemicals etc were :

Bromine- 0

Ph- 6.3

Total Alkalinity- 27

Hardness-68

I first increased alkalinity, waited 30 min, then increased ph waitted 30 min. , then calcium hardness, then bromine, then some scale control and today went to dealer with Alex water testing machine and my levels were the following

PH- 7.2, Bromine- 0.2, alkalinity 143, Hardness 100 am i doing ok ? I know i didnt follow ur 3 step products from grocery store etc, but once i get this going and perfect readings i will be following it .. Please big guy im new at this and understand everything ur saying, i should have NEVER started with the Soft soak junk in the first place...

Today i used tub and going to add some more ph , calcium hardness, and bromine (this is from the readings from the Alex water machine at dealer)

I had written a lengthly answer to you and I just lost my whole post and I really don't have the time or energy to waste posting my answer to you again. Just know that the ALEX software system is notorious for over dosing on chemicals since it is designed to increase a dealer's bottom line and not balance your water. If your water is balanced the dealer cannot sell you anything.

I will say that right now your total alkalinity is TOO HIGH at 143 and needs to be lowered, not raised. and that adding pH increaser (sodium carbonate) increases BOTH pH and total alkalinity. You need to test BOTH pH and TA after ajusting either one and you need to know which chemical you need to adjust them.

Alkalinity increaser-Sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) will raise TA and will cause pH to move to around 8.0 as carbon dioxide gases off but is not very useful when the pH is very low

pH increaser-Sodium carbonate will raise pH when it is very low BUT is also raises TA faster than sodium bicarbonate. However, when the pH is below 7.0 the TA is also going to be very low! (unless you aerate to outgas CO2 which also raises pH but does not have any effect on TA

Borax (sodium tetraborate, which is also sold in pool/spa supplies--Your Bioguard dealer used to sell Optimizer, which was just expensive borax, now the sell optimizer plus which is a mixture of borax and boric acid to be more pH neutal) raises pH but has minimal effect on TA. It will cause it to rise slightly and is dosed at twice the amount of sodium carbonate for the same pH rise.

Have you added sodium bromide to create your bromide bank? From your readings I would have to say no. If you do not create a bromine reserve on filling then, depending on whether you are using BCDMH or DBDMH bromine tablets you either are running a chlorine spa for the first several weeks or you have a spa that will not maintain a proper bromine level for several weeks.

Did you test your water after each addition of chemicals you made? I am assuming no and I do not think you have a test kit since you did not answer my previous questions.

Good luck with your spa, you will need it.

BTW, your problem is not that you started with SoftSoak, you started without a gameplan and even now you don't want to follow a sound one.

Have you even replaced the filters? This is a NECESSARY step when converting from biguanide to halogens.

Alex and all the rest of them are all the same programed to sell chems

My taylormwise lab is dead on to the taylor test kit, its not out to get customers money, so i disagree, not all store labs lie and make people buy chemicals they do not need.

[waterbear]

Waterbear- can u just take a deep breathe here !! relax big guy , i trust that u know what ur doing and read ur bromine 3 step process. My fill of tub results with ZERO chemicals etc were :

Bromine- 0

Ph- 6.3

Total Alkalinity- 27

Hardness-68

I first increased alkalinity, waited 30 min, then increased ph waitted 30 min. , then calcium hardness, then bromine, then some scale control and today went to dealer with Alex water testing machine and my levels were the following

PH- 7.2, Bromine- 0.2, alkalinity 143, Hardness 100 am i doing ok ? I know i didnt follow ur 3 step products from grocery store etc, but once i get this going and perfect readings i will be following it .. Please big guy im new at this and understand everything ur saying, i should have NEVER started with the Soft soak junk in the first place...

Today i used tub and going to add some more ph , calcium hardness, and bromine (this is from the readings from the Alex water machine at dealer)

I had written a lengthly answer to you and I just lost my whole post and I really don't have the time or energy to waste posting my answer to you again. Just know that the ALEX software system is notorious for over dosing on chemicals since it is designed to increase a dealer's bottom line and not balance your water. If your water is balanced the dealer cannot sell you anything.

I will say that right now your total alkalinity is TOO HIGH at 143 and needs to be lowered, not raised. and that adding pH increaser (sodium carbonate) increases BOTH pH and total alkalinity. You need to test BOTH pH and TA after ajusting either one and you need to know which chemical you need to adjust them.

Alkalinity increaser-Sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) will raise TA and will cause pH to move to around 8.0 as carbon dioxide gases off but is not very useful when the pH is very low

pH increaser-Sodium carbonate will raise pH when it is very low BUT is also raises TA faster than sodium bicarbonate. However, when the pH is below 7.0 the TA is also going to be very low! (unless you aerate to outgas CO2 which also raises pH but does not have any effect on TA

Borax (sodium tetraborate, which is also sold in pool/spa supplies--Your Bioguard dealer used to sell Optimizer, which was just expensive borax, now the sell optimizer plus which is a mixture of borax and boric acid to be more pH neutal) raises pH but has minimal effect on TA. It will cause it to rise slightly and is dosed at twice the amount of sodium carbonate for the same pH rise.

Have you added sodium bromide to create your bromide bank? From your readings I would have to say no. If you do not create a bromine reserve on filling then, depending on whether you are using BCDMH or DBDMH bromine tablets you either are running a chlorine spa for the first several weeks or you have a spa that will not maintain a proper bromine level for several weeks.

Did you test your water after each addition of chemicals you made? I am assuming no and I do not think you have a test kit since you did not answer my previous questions.

Good luck with your spa, you will need it.

BTW, your problem is not that you started with SoftSoak, you started without a gameplan and even now you don't want to follow a sound one.

Have you even replaced the filters? This is a NECESSARY step when converting from biguanide to halogens.

Alex and all the rest of them are all the same programed to sell chems

My taylormwise lab is dead on to the taylor test kit, its not out to get customers money, so i disagree, not all store labs lie and make people buy chemicals they do not need.

It is true that not all store testing is set up to just sell chems but many of the computerized ones are. My experience has shown the LaMotte Datamate software used with their Waterlink systems to be generally neutral in this respect but all these software prgrams can be modified by the individual dealers to better suit their purposes also so once again you really need to KNOW your dealer or do your own testing with a good test kit.

The Taylor professional labs are excellent. However, there is nothing stopping a dealer from entering the results of the tests into a computer with software to generate a printout and that software could be skewed to maximize dealer sales!

[njmurvin]

Allen,

If you have learned ONE thing in this thread, I hope it was to LISTEN TO WATERBEAR - and Waterbear alone.

As I see it, he has explained why you had goo, gave you the specific steps to eliminate it, and provided a well-documented and proven method (3-step bromine) to prevent it from recurring. What more can you ask for? Print it out, execute it, and start enjoying your goo-less tub.

[footie]

^ +1

[alan1]

nj - agreed , i have been enjoying it now for 2 weeks or so, no more gooey stuff and all is good !!!

waterbear was right about no starting with a gameplan , that was 100% my fault as I thought it was going to be a 1-2-3 ease of transition to a spa.. And yes it would have been if i followed the methods here from the start

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

nj - agreed , i have been enjoying it now for 2 weeks or so, no more gooey stuff and all is good !!!

waterbear was right about no starting with a gameplan , that was 100% my fault as I thought it was going to be a 1-2-3 ease of transition to a spa.. And yes it would have been if i followed the methods here from the start

Hey, water bear is not the only one, lets not make his head too big

I am glad it is working out for you, WB did write up a nice easy step by step for people to use, and chem geek has always done a great job explaining the

"chemical reation" side of the equation.

Sometimes on forums, you get information overload and it gets all jumbled together, add a few people not understanding what is happening and it turns into a mess, its much like the game telephone we played as kids!

[waterbear]

gonna keep my mouth shut!

[footie]

nj - agreed , i have been enjoying it now for 2 weeks or so, no more gooey stuff and all is good !!!

waterbear was right about no starting with a gameplan , that was 100% my fault as I thought it was going to be a 1-2-3 ease of transition to a spa.. And yes it would have been if i followed the methods here from the start

Hey, water bear is not the only one, lets not make his head too big

I am glad it is working out for you, WB did write up a nice easy step by step for people to use, and chem geek has always done a great job explaining the

"chemical reation" side of the equation.

Sometimes on forums, you get information overload and it gets all jumbled together, add a few people not understanding what is happening and it turns into a mess, its much like the game telephone we played as kids!

Don't agree that it gets all jumbled up together, I think we all (that are using WB's method) make references back to his 3 step plan, it's just that some don't always listen either through their own choosing or because they are getting conflicting information to what is preached on here from sources like their spa chemical supplier or other websites.

I am a perfect example of this, I bought a tub and the supplier suggested 'Active oxygen' as a sanitizer, WB told me it wouldn't cut the mustard but at the time I was new here and believe the supplier more, silly me and it wasn't long before I took Waterbear's advice and made the switch to bromine and followed his method.

Haven't looked back.

P.S.

Nitro, ChemGeek and Waterbear are all people that give advice willingly and this advice should be heeded in my opinion. To my surprise I had owned a pool for 9 years and thought I knew everything I needed to know about running a tub, boy was I wrong. Tubbing is a entirely different animal.

[waterbear]

[ I think we all (that are using WB's method) make references back to his 3 step plan

Once again, It is not MY method...it is simply the proper way to do a 3 step bromine sanitizer system. I cannot take credit for developing it. I did not develop it. I just wrote a step by step for people to follow in simple terms (well, sort of simple)

Credit for the bleach/dichlor method really does need to go to chem geek since it was he who first talked about having a small amount of CYA in a hot tub when the general feeling in the industry for commercial spas was that CYA was a no no (many Health Depts. did not allow ANY CYA in a commercial hot tub and still don't to this day!) and for residential spa that is did not matter at all (as was/is the general feeling for residential pools). Nitro put it all together into a simplified maintenance plan.

All I did for bromine was put together a step by step of what to do from info that was already out there. My chemistry background and understanding of how bromine actually works allowed me to separate fact from industry myths and sales pitches. Just because a product is sold (such as the one step bromine products that are mostly dichlor with some sodium bromide in them) does not mean that it will work well. Case in point, anyone on this board been involved in the industry long enough to remember when iodine was tried as a pool sanitizer? There were even some iodine based sanitation products developed for the general market. Wonder why they still are not on the market? BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WORK! (Some CPO manuals still make reference to them, btw!)

OR why ionizer$ and alternative $anitizer$ are not more widespread? BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WORK!

We know what works, we just need to explain how to do what works in an easy way that anyone can follow.

That is all I did with my write up on 3 step bromine. If anyone is interested I can also explain 2 step bromine but that had no real advantage (other than the fact that pH is not quite as critical) since it does require daily spa maintenance like chlorine (bleach/dichlor) and is a bit more expensive. IMHO, the one step bromine products are NOT a good solution and lead to water balance problems in a short time. Manufacturers have them because:

Owners want "magic in a bottle" that they can pour in and then forget about

Dealers want to maximize their chemical sales and if your water is always having some problems you will keep coming back for more "magic in a bottle".

Think of it this way...you buy a new car.

The dealer says just put in gas and drive and forget about everything else. Don't worry about checking the tire pressure, the oil, the coolant, etc. Just bring the car in and we will test everything for you and tell you what you need. You don't need your own tire pressure gauge or anything like that.

Now tell me, How many of you are going to believe that car dealer? Not many!

Now let's take it a step further. The car is not running well so you go to the auto supply. They say just buy a bottle of this magic car fix additive and pour it in your gas tank every week AND add a bottle of this magic oil additive once a month and you will have no more problems. How many of you are going to believe that?

Yet, this is exactly what we do with spa dealers, pool builders, and pool/spa supply stores! They say just put in the chlorine or bromine and bring in the water for us to test. You don't need a test kit (tire pressure gauge) and we will tell you what you need when you bring in the water.

They sell you expen$ive "magic in a bottle" and say to pour it in and all your problems will be gone and when it does not work they sell you another "magic in a bottle" and you buy that one and when it does not work...

Now, I have to add that not ALL dealers and builders are like this but the ones that are not are in the minority! There is a reason why...chemical sales can be lucrative (and for many pool/spa supply stores their MAIN income) so it really is against the dealer's bottom line to balance your water and make it as maintenance free as possible since you won't be coming in regularly. Why do you think dealers love guess strips (test strips) and tell you that you have no need for a test kit like the Taylor K-2006?

When I worked in the retail end of the industry we were told to push test strips because we WANTED THEM COMING IN TO US FOR WATER TESTING. (Do I need to repeat that statement?) Now, we did stock the Taylor K-2005 and would special order the K-2006 or K-2106 or any other Taylor or LaMotte test kit for condo associations and service people that were our customers but not for residential pool and spa owners. We were told to actively discourage them from buying such kits.

I will give credit to where I worked. We did stock sodium bromide and we sold a lot of sodium hypochlorite. We did not stock any biguanide based systems but we did actively push Nature 2 for both spas and pools (because it was good for the bottom line. we not only sold a lot of the cartridges but the people using them had a lot of water balance problems so we sold a lot of clarifiers and algaecide to them when they tried to keep the FC at .5 ppm, which was the older instructions for both pool and spa use! Nature 2 instructions were changed around 2006 or 2007 for spas for the current slilver/MPS method and a chlorine only method that is at normal and not reduce chlorine levels. Before that MPS was just used as a weekly shock and the dichlor was added daily at a very low level and it just did not work!)