Frustrated !

[alan1]

Ok so have the hot tub up and running for 2 weeks so far. Brought water samples in 3x and levels are all good. Im using Spa Guards Soft Soak treatment with JAcuzzi J 375 spa.. Water looks crystal clear nice and clean and smells nice.. EVERYTIME i put on the air jets by pressing the little JAcuzzi button I get a few bubbles and little foam/ bubbles that disipates in no more then 20 seconds after turning air off.. With the air ON I get this Tar like sticky gooey gross tan colored specks that once on ur body is like impossible to get off .. I scooped alot out tonight and a few days ago. This only happens with air on , woth jets pushing only water its 100% and perfect.. Any ideas of what this is ... HAd water tested two days ago and alkalinity, softsoak , ph (a bit high but ok) , hardness , and TDS were all fine.. Please any help is great having people over monday and want them to be able to use it.. I think tomorrow maybe clean the two filters and screen and scoop out all this junk i can but need suggestions and help , I can also email pics of it if it helps.

alan

[Itchy and Scratchy]

If this is a new tub what you are experiencing is to be expected. Your dealer should have informed you that during the 1st month of use your tub will leach plastics and other goo from the plumbing. Your chemisty is fine. There is nothing you can do to speed the process up. After the 1st month follow the decontamination procedure and your water will be better.

Personally I would keep the air/jets off with guests in the tub. It will be more trouble than it's worth trying to explain to them why they have a petroleum spill on them.

[alan1]

Ok thanks for your reply, i thought there would be more people that would have told me this but hey I guess one is better then none!!! I have the tub up and running for about 2 weeks now .. Do u think i should decontaminate it now or wait a few more weeks ? Does this stuff eventually just stop ? Te dealer did not tell me anything about this gooey gum like stuff .. This tub may have been filled at dealer for a bit as a floor wet test model too? wouldnt that have gotten all this stuff out ? I hope you are right ?

[endorfin]

Did you happen to use Spa Sentry from Spa Guard in your water? I had a problem that was similar that I attribute it to using Spa Sentry. Besides being a ph buffer, spa sentry also is a calcium and magnesium reducer. It came with a chemical starter kit. The symptom was the formation of whitish, rubbery clumps (sticking to the filter or chest hairs, whichever it contacted first). I refilled and switched to the dichlor, bleach, borates method and haven't had the problem since.

This is from Spa Guard:

"Spa Sentry will react with and drop out

all virtually calcium and magnesium present in

the water, which may cloud the water temporarily.

This is normal and most of it will be removed

by the filter. The “white goop” on your filter is

normal and will rinse off easily."

[Itchy and Scratchy]

Usually takes a month or so break in a new tub. I would wait until a month had passed and then decontaminate. Also, just me but I would follow the other advice about droping the soft soak. Enjoy the tub.

[alan1]

Ok after a whole day back and forth at pool - spa place, we came up with a possible problem.. Dealer (different then the pool-spa testing place) used Swirl Away to pre treat the tub prior to delivery.. Spa guard said that possibly this chemical cleaner had a reaction that locked up the soft soak and oxidizer that caused the gooey build up. Suggested and did a filter degreaser / cleaner and believe me ( i have pics to show it if anyone wants to see) it was like Spackle that u would use on your walls but a little more watery but same type of texture.... GROSS!! Degreased both filters and then used off the walls to get the gooey stuff off. Then ran the filters with air jets for 30 minutes and NOTHING!!! then drained tub 100% cleaned entire tub and wiped dry , filled and started chemicals again and so far so GOOD!!! keeping my fingers crossed, considering i spent 6 hours today and still have tub running and need to add 2 more things tonight and then tomorrow back to relaxation !! I was going to switch but the spa place guy ( been there for like 30 yrs) stated u already have all the chemicals so lets give it one more shot .. i trust him so will update all here tomorrow

[chem geek]

Thanks for updating us. That's interesting and probably means that they didn't properly rinse out the spa after using Swirl Away. The use of Swirl Away or of Spa System Flush can remove biofilms and break down grease, but you have to completely empty the spa after using it. Any residual that is left is probably not a problem with chlorine or bromine, but apparently may interfere with Baquacil (Soft Soak) or hydrogen peroxide (oxidizer)...interesting.

[alan1]

[Chem geek- they called spa guard the stated that this product should be ok with soft soak but apparently NOT!! Put the air jets on again and same stuff came into water , so today flushing system and starting Nature 2 with bromine I believe its so frustrating..!! If i have this problem with bromine or dichlor I am calling dealer to return tub and if no good I will call Amex and get my money back from them !!! Any suggestions on how to start with nature 2 , ike do i need to flush system etc?

[alan1]

Any JAcuzzi people out there ? Why is this only happening with the Air jets on ? how is the setup , isnt it the same pipes / plumbing ? hopefully dichlor will shock this gooey stuff and then i guess re drain tub and start up again ... what a mess!

[Itchy and Scratchy]

You are making your tub too difficult. Loseing valuable soak time and paying more for this privilege. Take the advice I originally gave you with your first post about soft soak, don't use it. It's a waste of time and money. I know the store "sold" you on it but that is there job.

Take a look a my first post "please learn from my mistakes and medical bills". You have just learned your first lesson about tub maintenance, most stores and esspecially the one you went to know nothing about proper water chemistry.

All you need for safe, soft, silky, clear water is here on this board. Proper water chemisty is very cheap with little maintenance if you follow the advice of the board. 99% of the people here use the methods listed under the hot topics because they work and if you experience difficulty with them there will be help available to you. We can't help you because we don't use soft soak. Take my advice and you will be relaxing instead of frustrated.

[bdubya200]

Alan...nothign wrong with using what youve already paid for. if you are sanitizing the water properly, dont listen to the boogeyman. Thats a bummer about the sludge. i wish you luck in getting it cleared up soon.

[bdubya200]

most stores and esspecially the one you went to know nothing about proper water chemistry.

I bet that when you paint walls, you get done in 5 minutes by always using such a wide brush.

[david_bilton]

I've got 2 floor models that use spa sentry and 5-6 out in the world and none of them have had this issue. spa sentry is a good product .

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

[Chem geek- they called spa guard the stated that this product should be ok with soft soak but apparently NOT!! Put the air jets on again and same stuff came into water , so today flushing system and starting Nature 2 with bromine I believe its so frustrating..!! If i have this problem with bromine or dichlor I am calling dealer to return tub and if no good I will call Amex and get my money back from them !!! Any suggestions on how to start with nature 2 , ike do i need to flush system etc?

dont use bromine with nature 2, they do not work together. Also, if you mixed chlorine with a biguinade product it will cause all sorts of issues. At this point, I would swirl away to clean the plumbing, fill and deontaminate to make sure all is out, including the swirl away, decide what system you would like to use, and listen to 1 knowledable person to how to ru that system. Even here on the forum you will get conflicting advice since so many people post,and its like the game telephone. Chem geek, water bear, nitro, myself and a few others can talk you through stop by step on you water. Once you get set with the right info, you should really enjoy your tub. i think you have had some bad advice and information overload at this point.

[JimKW]

A place that has been selling Hot Tubs for 30 years should know what they are doing. I would be really pissed off if I was you and they would know about it. You should not be getting any kind of goo from a new hot tub. Pretty sure I would be demanding they fix this problem or come and get their friggin hot tub.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

A place that has been selling Hot Tubs for 30 years should know what they are doing. I would be really pissed off if I was you and they would know about it. You should not be getting any kind of goo from a new hot tub. Pretty sure I would be demanding they fix this problem or come and get their friggin hot tub.

I am not saying his dealer did good by him, but new hot tubs do have goo, all the plastics have oil on them that takes about a month to get rid of. The dealer should have told them that. I think the next bigggest mistake was being told to add this chemical and that chemical and it created a chemical soup. Many dealers hire seasonal staff and never train them properly. This then becomes a big issue. One staff person thinks it should be one way, another thinks something else and it ends up neither one of them were right. i would also have a fit with the dealer. Proper water chemistry, IMO, should be a continuing part of the sale. This is part of why people purchase from a dealer.

[masanori]

A place that has been selling Hot Tubs for 30 years should know what they are doing. I would be really pissed off if I was you and they would know about it. You should not be getting any kind of goo from a new hot tub. Pretty sure I would be demanding they fix this problem or come and get their friggin hot tub.

+1

[JimKW]

I would not get nasty or mean with them, I would just be very matter of fact about it. It should be their responsibility to get the mess cleaned up. This thread is the first time I have ever heard of goo coming out of a new tub.

If I got a new tub home and some tar like substance started coming out of the jets, my wife would have a fit. I doubt if I could explain to her that it is normal for a new tub to do this. My bet is she would refuse to get in again.

[Itchy and Scratchy]

I bet that when you paint walls, you get done in 5 minutes by always using such a wide brush.

I use the same brush that waterbear uses, I was taught by a master. No doubt he would give the same advice. Poor Alan has not been able to enjoy his tub because of misinformation. I simply stated that if he switched to 3 step bromine or Dichlor/bleach he would not be up at 3:00 in the morning posting about water chemistry nightmares.

Those tub owners that have a knowledgeable dealer like hillbilly hottub have no need for this forum. It is those that go to "sales" people that come here for advice. There is alot a advice on this board. No need to FLAME me because you don't agree with what i said.

Alan read the hot topics and choose your method, then stick with it.

[waterbear]

(dragging out soapbox and climbing up)

A VERY IMPORTANT POINT has been overlooked. The OP is using SoftSoak, a biguanide based sanitizer from Bioguard/Chemtura (same as BaquaSpa from another company, Arch Chemical). The "goo" is what is usually referred to as "BaquaGoo" and is a normal byproduct of using a biguanide based sanitizer. IF non compatible chemicals (and this is a LONG list that includes chlorine, bromine, MPS, many kinds of algaecide, certain clarifiers, and many filter cleaners and spa flush chemicals) are mixed with a biguanide sanitized spa or pool then LARGE AMOUNTS of the "goo" are produced. This is also what causes the strange green to brown colors and filter gunk up when converting from a biguanide based system to a halogen based (chlorine or bromine) or Silver/MPS based (Nature2 or Silspa) sanitizing system.

I have stated many times that I am not a fan of biguanide bases systems and I feel they are only sanitizers of last resort for those with TRUE allergy to halogens (very rare but it does happen). The problems in this post are an example why. I have not even touched on the problems of white water mold and pink slime bacterial outbreaks that are common.

Many people, even dealers, are not aware of the things that can happen when incompatible chemicals are mixed with biguanide based santizers and that the "goo" is also a normal byproduct of biguanide sanitation but to a lesser degree (which is why filter cleaning and replacement is required about 5 times more frequently on brguanide systems than on halogen based systems).

IMHO, the OP was given bad advice/made a bad choice in the beginning in the selection of SoftSoak (even though he opened a thread and asked about it and was given more negative than positive remarks. He did state that he had already selected it so he was staying with it so I basically kept my mouth shut and just warned about biguanide degrading plastics used in many spas and to check with the manufacturer to make sure his spa was OK for biguanide.), did not take the time to search the forum (there is a lot about the "goo"), and was given more bad advice in this thread by well meaning but ill informed people who are not familiar with the ins and outs of biguanide bases sanitizer systems.

My 2 cents.

A place that has been selling Hot Tubs for 30 years should know what they are doing. I would be really pissed off if I was you and they would know about it. You should not be getting any kind of goo from a new hot tub. Pretty sure I would be demanding they fix this problem or come and get their friggin hot tub.

You would think so but that is not always the case. FWIW, you cannot say that you should not be getting any goo from a new tub when biguanide is the sanitizer.

Goo is a way of life with biguanide. It is not by accident that I constantly recommend either chlorine or bromine over biguanide and silver/mps systems. The first two just plain WORK. The second two can work BUT they tend to have a lot more problems.

2 cents more.

(climbing down from soapbox now and putting it away)

Alan1, If you would like to convert from biguanide to a halogen based sanitizer I would be glad to tell you how. If you want to stay with the $oft$oak, then learn to love the "goo" and be prepared to clean the filters weekly to montly and replace them yearly (and be sure to use the $pecial filter cleaner that is compatible with biguanide!)

[waterbear]

Any JAcuzzi people out there ? Why is this only happening with the Air jets on ? how is the setup , isnt it the same pipes / plumbing ? hopefully dichlor will shock this gooey stuff and then i guess re drain tub and start up again ... what a mess!

Adding dichlr (chlorine) to a biguanide tub is going to create a LOT MORE GOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alan1]

Ok THANKS to all for the insight and info.. Dealer who sold me tub DID NOT tell me anything about goo. Also this tub was in showroom and used for wet test prior to me receiving it.. SO the goo should have been gone by then anyway.. Secondly the pool place that i get water test etc has 30 yrs experience in pools etc.. They suggested soft soak as they have them in their personal tubs.. I figured that soft soak was a nice touch for the skin etc. They goo i believe was a chemical reaction to Swirl away (cleaner by dealer prior to delivery) and soft soak chemicals.. Did 2 set ups and same goo came out. Cleaned tub a few hours today filled and started bromine treatment etc this afternoon.. So far its ALLL GOOOOOOODD!!! so hopefully i learned my lesson and thanks for the insight on all ends. i have nature 2 spa cartridge plus ph increaser calcium / harndess increaser bromine scale and stain treatment in tub, anything im missing here ? need to do the tests now to see how well the water responded .

[waterbear]

Ok THANKS to all for the insight and info.. Dealer who sold me tub DID NOT tell me anything about goo. Also this tub was in showroom and used for wet test prior to me receiving it.. SO the goo should have been gone by then anyway.. Secondly the pool place that i get water test etc has 30 yrs experience in pools etc.. They suggested soft soak as they have them in their personal tubs.. I figured that soft soak was a nice touch for the skin etc. They goo i believe was a chemical reaction to Swirl away (cleaner by dealer prior to delivery) and soft soak chemicals.. Did 2 set ups and same goo came out. Cleaned tub a few hours today filled and started bromine treatment etc this afternoon.. So far its ALLL GOOOOOOODD!!! so hopefully i learned my lesson and thanks for the insight on all ends. i have nature 2 spa cartridge plus ph increaser calcium / harndess increaser bromine scale and stain treatment in tub, anything im missing here ? need to do the tests now to see how well the water responded .

First DO NOT USE THE NATURE 2 WITH BROMINE!!!!!! not compatible! (chem geek already told you this, did he not?)

Second, REPLACE YOUR FILTER(S)! does not matter how new they are, they will contain traces of biguanide and will continue to produce goo until they are replaced when you switch to a halogen sanitizer.

third, you did add sodium bromide on filling to start your bromide bank, correct? (better yet, you did read how to do a bromine tub? IF not read it, It will tell you step by step what to do.)

Fourth, you DO have a GOOD test kit, don't you? (I recommend a Taylor K-2106 for bromine). DON'T DEPEND ON DEALER TE$TING OR STRIPS!

Fifth, make the fourth point the first one! A GOOD TEST KIT IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT TOOL YOU NEED FOR PROPER SPA MAINTENANCE!

sixth, if you get any cloudiness, discoloration, or goo now with the bromine you still have biguanide somewhere in the tub and I would have been glad to tell you how TO PROPERLY CONVERT from biguanide to halogens (but you jumped the gun on your own so I guess everything is fine and will continue to keep my mouth shut).

[chem geek]

First DO NOT USE THE NATURE 2 WITH BROMINE!!!!!! not compatible! (chem geek already told you this, did he not?)

I never mentioned Nature 2 and bromine incompatibility (disclosure about Nature 2 came after my post), but Hillbilly Hot Tub did.

[alan1]

YES to all , i saw this post after i started. Please forgive me for all this STUPIDITY as I am new to this and didnt really think about the stuff I read after being so frustrated about the gooey stuff. So here is the deal I read these responses after i started the refill and cleaning.. So here is what i did wrong for 100%- Bromine in tub four hours or so with nature 2 cartridge.. Put in around 3 tablespoons of bromine and YES i KNOW this is wrong now.. What is the next step take out the cartridge or let it run with everything in and keep fingers crossed? and then tomorrow can i just add the dichlor ? and shock? Man i feel like a complete idiot !!! I guess I chalk it up to a learning experience .... BTW NO MORE GOOEY stuff !!!!!!!!!!!!!!