Three Rivers Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Hello all. I am doing research prior to purchasing a hot tub and would first like to say thank you to everyone who takes the time to post information and answer questions on this forum. Although this is my first tub I feel that I am way ahead of the curve with the information I have learned from everyone on this site. We have narrowed our choice down to a Hot Springs or a Bullfrog and have looked at both in the showroom and will be doing wet tests in the next few days. When we looked at the Hot Springs the dealer pointed out the lack of suction return fittings as all the water passes through the overflow all the time. He said these fittings could be dangerous, especially with small children which we have. I must admit his sales pitch worked pretty well as I had pretty much written off the Bullfrog after that but we went in to have a look at them anyway. I liked the spas and talking with the Bullfrog dealer asked about the safety of the suction fittings which draw in water when the jet pumps are used. Not surprisingly, he said they were not a problem and that newer ones were required by law to be safe per the Virginia Graeme Baker Pool And Spa Safety Act. From what I could tell the Bullfrog had 2 of these suction fittings per jet pump which I suppose is one of the safety features. Despite his reassurance I am still a little leery of having the kids and their friends in the tub with these fittings. With the new designs and safety requirements is there any real reason to be worried? Don't many or most spas have these suction fittings? I realize part of this issue involves continuous vs bypass filtration but I am mostly concerned about the potential safety issue. Thanks for any info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolSpaGuy30 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I'm a Hot Spring dealer and I'll be the first to say that the "safey" reasoning is a lot of sales pitch, granted in much older poorly designed spas there have been issues but with the new spas there is little for concern. First of all your little one(s) would have to fully submerge herself/himself, then somehow remove the grates which are usually screwed and/or threaded in (sometimes both) then she would have to completely cover the suction with her body, so as you can see these scenarios are near impossible to happen especially since kids should ALWAYS be supervised while using the spa. The reason Hot Spring does not have "bypass suctions" is because the water is always being filtered even when the jet pumps are running, that is why all models have 3-5 filters which allow water to be filtered and still feed the jets at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart A Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have not been on this forum for a while and the first thing I see is a story about a dealer trying to sell a spa by trying to knock another manufacturer. I am not an expert but as far as I understand it a pump should have two intakes on different planes. I would always stick with a dealer who did not have to make accusations or put down another manufacturer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolSpaGuy30 Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I have not been on this forum for a while and the first thing I see is a story about a dealer trying to sell a spa by trying to knock another manufacturer. I am not an expert but as far as I understand it a pump should have two intakes on different planes. I would always stick with a dealer who did not have to make accusations or put down another manufacturer. to be fair, according to OP he said "these fittings could be dangerous, especially with your family and little ones" so technically that is not knocking another manufacture, not like he said "ya bullfrog is crap, there suction fittings can harm your family" either way it should not be part of his sales pitch considering Hot Spring manufacturers certain models with these same exact fittings as found on bullfrog, Cal, Jacuzzi, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Boy Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 They are not dangerous what so ever. Go back and ask that salesman why every other spa on the market uses those fittings if they could be dangerous for small children. Then ask him if they could be dangerous for small children, then why does Watkins Manufacturing use those suction fittings in the Hot Spot Spas, Limelight Spas, and Caldera Spas. Short answer, he was full of it. With that being said, I would prefer the Hotspring over Bullfrog, but that is just my opinion. And that has nothing to do with the suction fittings btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterbear Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Actually, the bigger danger to children is the hot water, which can cause distress, brain damage, and death. If children are going to use the tub keep the temperature down and monitor the time in the water. A Hot tub is not a small swimming pool and it really is not the best thing for kids. Their bodies are small and will heat up much faster than an adults and causing their internal body temperature to dangerous levels in a short time. Also the risk of water borne illnesses are much higher in a hot tub than a pool because of the smaller water volume and the higher water temperatures which means that bacteria can multiply in a very short time. The risk of fecal accidents with children is much higher than with adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaiSTi Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Like some have stated, suctions in the foot well are not very dangerous. You would have to cover up two suctions on two different planes to get into trouble. That's not likely to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 poppy cock, would not buy off a dealer that used fear mongering miss information like that to sell his product... the git... those suctions are safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake the dog man Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Wow. You are comparing any Hotspring tub to a Bullfrog? Talk about Apples vs Oranges. I have owned 3 Hotsprings in the past 25 years, with next to no issues. I have never met anyone that has bought a Bullfrog and doesn’t regret it within a few months. I have nothing to do with the hot tub industry, so I have nothing to gain or lose. Don’t let 1 knucklehead salesman make up your mind. The fittings were barely an issue years ago, but some ambulance chasing lawyer had them all changed over to prevent even the possibility. Once you even see the Bullfrog, let alone wet test, you will see it can barely be considered a hot tub, but closer to a disposable child’s toy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 When you wet test these tubs (hopefully, you will test both) see for yourself how dangerous they might be. See if there is anything you think is dangerous (make sure someones finger is on the button to turn off if there is any problem). They are your kids, and it will be your decision. I say first hand experience would be better info than anything anyone can tell you, good or bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Rivers Posted March 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Thanks for all the input. I didn't get the sense that the sales guy was trying to knock any other brand, more to state the benefits of Hot Springs I suppose. I have since been back to wet test though and now that I know what I am looking at I did notice suction fittings on several of the other tub lines they carry so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spa God Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 wow 3 hot springs in 25 years and no problems!!! Now that is a a miracle... Between the heater relay board on anything older than a couple years, and the spa side control heads breaking you should have had at least 10 issues in 25 years... I service the Hot springs out here from a dealer that went bankrupt and i do a steady business fixing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n1oty Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 wow 3 hot springs in 25 years and no problems!!! Now that is a a miracle... Between the heater relay board on anything older than a couple years, and the spa side control heads breaking you should have had at least 10 issues in 25 years... I service the Hot springs out here from a dealer that went bankrupt and i do a steady business fixing them. The heater relay boards came into existence starting with the 2001 model year. Prior to that, separate relays were used that were not very problematic. For that matter, the heater relay board in the IQ2020 controller is not problematic on 115 Volt tubs. I can easily envision someone with a HS tub from the 80's and 90's not having any problems, if they did their chemistry properly. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Rivers Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Just got back from wet testing the Bullfrog and as Pool Clown suggested I paid special attention to the suction fittings during our time in the tub. With both jet pumps on high I could barely feel the suction with my hand over the intake so I don't think it will be an issue. Thanks again for the help all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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