New Buyer- Floor Models

[bobbibong]

am looking at Hot Springs either Vanguard, Soveign or Prodigy

haven't figured out which i want yet.

have only wet tried the Vanguard

know of vast differences in cost, features, size, electrical needs etc, etc.

dealer has floor models of only two - both at 10% off list (as a start) with full warranty

although one has been wet model for bout a year and another is dry.

look forward to any comments/thoughts for a newbie anxious to get into one for Xmas

[PoolSpaGuy30]

am looking at Hot Springs either Vanguard, Soveign or Prodigy

haven't figured out which i want yet.

have only wet tried the Vanguard

know of vast differences in cost, features, size, electrical needs etc, etc.

dealer has floor models of only two - both at 10% off list (as a start) with full warranty

although one has been wet model for bout a year and another is dry.

look forward to any comments/thoughts for a newbie anxious to get into one for Xmas

there is a lot of differences between these 3 so you kind of have to narrow it down to what is important for you, my first choice would be Vanguard simply because I love the size and depth + 2 moto massage...if you absolutely need a lounger than the Sovereign would be the way to go however it is not as deep 33" vs 36" only has 1 moto and only 1 pump compared to 2 pumps on the vanguard, both nice tubs just very different, also just out of curiosity are you looking at the ACE saltwater system as well?

[bobbibong]

not to familiar with the ACE??

for what it's worth have very high iron well water

[PoolSpaGuy30]

not to familiar with the ACE??

for what it's worth have very high iron well water

here is some information on the ACE: ACE Informationdon't worry too much about the Iron content, there is products that will remove metals from your water

[hd2000]

Wow! Three very different choices. Small, medium, and large. We are on our third spa and second HS and about all I can tell you is that the Hot Springs spas are very good tubs. We recently downsized from a Sundance Marin which was also a very nice spa, to a HS Prodigy and we are very happy with it. We are using the ACE system along with the ozonator in ours and have no complaints about it at all. The advice I can give is to get the 230v over the 115v if you choose the Prodigy. You really don't have any energy savings with the lower voltage and your tub will heat faster with the higher one. We have been spa users for a long time and over that time we learned we don't need a lounger, so that would be a strike on the Sovereign for us. Over the years we also discovered that a vast majority of the time, it's just the 2 of us using the tub, so that's why we downsized. If we had kids or something still at home, we probably would have opted for something more Vanguard sized. I really like the Vanguard. The dual moto seats are a nice feature as is the dual pumps. Since you said you are a newbie I'll also add that you should definately get a cover lift. It saves on wear and adds to ease of use. Have the dealer fill up the dry tub and see how you like that one. Sitting in a dry tub and sitting in a wet one are two different things and what you think you may like dry may not do at all when its full of water and running. Good luck. You are looking at a good make. I'll also add that I wouldn't be put off much by a tub that has been full on the dealers floor for a year as long as you get a fair price. The dry tub shouldn't have anything wrong with it that you can't see, but I'd look it over really well for scratches and the like.

[PoolSpaGuy30]

Wow! Three very different choices. Small, medium, and large. We are on our third spa and second HS and about all I can tell you is that the Hot Springs spas are very good tubs. We recently downsized from a Sundance Marin which was also a very nice spa, to a HS Prodigy and we are very happy with it. We are using the ACE system along with the ozonator in ours and have no complaints about it at all. The advice I can give is to get the 230v over the 115v if you choose the Prodigy. You really don't have any energy savings with the lower voltage and your tub will heat faster with the higher one. We have been spa users for a long time and over that time we learned we don't need a lounger, so that would be a strike on the Sovereign for us. Over the years we also discovered that a vast majority of the time, it's just the 2 of us using the tub, so that's why we downsized. If we had kids or something still at home, we probably would have opted for something more Vanguard sized. I really like the Vanguard. The dual moto seats are a nice feature as is the dual pumps. Since you said you are a newbie I'll also add that you should definately get a cover lift. It saves on wear and adds to ease of use. Have the dealer fill up the dry tub and see how you like that one. Sitting in a dry tub and sitting in a wet one are two different things and what you think you may like dry may not do at all when its full of water and running. Good luck. You are looking at a good make. I'll also add that I wouldn't be put off much by a tub that has been full on the dealers floor for a year as long as you get a fair price. The dry tub shouldn't have anything wrong with it that you can't see, but I'd look it over really well for scratches and the like.

good info. here, and yes the prodigy is convertible meaning it can be run either 110v or 220v in these cases I always recommend 220v especially in colder climates, yes it will cost more money upfront to have the electrical installed but the tub will heat much faster and will also heat while you are using it. A cover lift is also a necessity in my opinion, the best option assuming you have the clearance is going to be Hot Springs Cover Cradle...gl and if you have any more questions fire away

[hd2000]

not to familiar with the ACE??

for what it's worth have very high iron well water

I to have a well. If you have a water softener, you'll be good to go with the ACE system. The ACE is a salt water system to generate the chlorine needed in the tub. You select the tub size and how much usage the tub will get, then it generates the amount of chlorine needed to satisfy the numbers you entered. If you test and your chlorine level is to low, simply dial up the usage. If chlorine is to high, dial it down a bit. If you need to shock the spa, or anticipate a lot of usage (party) it has a boost feature that handles that. The ACE system simplifys the water treatment sanitation needs. You don't need to add chlorine or shock the spa as part of your routine maintenance.

[bobbibong]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

[hd2000]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

You might be overwhelmed by the process but you have to admit that the wet testing part of it is a pretty nice way to shop.

[david_bilton]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

the only thing i am going to add is to stay away from the salt system they can be a bugger to deal with some times and nobody talks much about the down side of salt. like bonding ALL metals around the spa, how hard they are on pump seals. also once in a while the cell needs to be cleaned with VERY HARSH chemicals and that these cells do wear out and need to be replaced . or how hard salt is on concrete(etching)and how fast salt will rot wood.if you use a salt system you will be adding lots of acid to keep the PH creep under control and then the alkalinity drops so you add some of that then the next day you add acid because the PH is creeping up again. something like a dog chasing its tail all day.

[hd2000]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

the only thing i am going to add is to stay away from the salt system they can be a bugger to deal with some times and nobody talks much about the down side of salt. like bonding ALL metals around the spa, how hard they are on pump seals. also once in a while the cell needs to be cleaned with VERY HARSH chemicals and that these cells do wear out and need to be replaced . or how hard salt is on concrete(etching)and how fast salt will rot wood.if you use a salt system you will be adding lots of acid to keep the PH creep under control and then the alkalinity drops so you add some of that then the next day you add acid because the PH is creeping up again. something like a dog chasing its tail all day.

You make it seem like the ACE system is using ocean type water or something. It's a salt system, yes, but the amount of salt that actually enters the water is very minimal. It's low enough to still be considered fresh water and you can not even taste the salt in the water. It's about 1,200 ppm. Salt water in the ocean is around 35,000ppm and in a pool with a salt system, about 4 times what is in a ACE system.

[david_bilton]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

the only thing i am going to add is to stay away from the salt system they can be a bugger to deal with some times and nobody talks much about the down side of salt. like bonding ALL metals around the spa, how hard they are on pump seals. also once in a while the cell needs to be cleaned with VERY HARSH chemicals and that these cells do wear out and need to be replaced . or how hard salt is on concrete(etching)and how fast salt will rot wood.if you use a salt system you will be adding lots of acid to keep the PH creep under control and then the alkalinity drops so you add some of that then the next day you add acid because the PH is creeping up again. something like a dog chasing its tail all day.

You make it seem like the ACE system is using ocean type water or something. It's a salt system, yes, but the amount of salt that actually enters the water is very minimal. It's low enough to still be considered fresh water and you can not even taste the salt in the water. It's about 1,200 ppm. Salt water in the ocean is around 35,000ppm and in a pool with a salt system, about 4 times what is in a ACE system.

no i have worked on a few salt water spa's and pools and with what i have learned and had to fix,clean and replace ,pump seals salt generators,pipes and fittings in a salt water pool that i looked after i can't promote a salt water system.did the sales guy speak about these things? no they dont they just want you to buy one so they can soak you over the years for service.1 of the salt systems that i cared for would go thru pump seals monthly. the girls that did the pool would bring water to the shop daily for balancing and still the thing would eat seals.and to top that the pool was only 5 years old and the salt f**ked that pool so bad that they had to have some one come in and chip away and grind the pool down so that it could be refinished and resealed after all that they got rid of the salt and went to a chlorine system.so my view of a salt system is a big waste of your money .

[Dr. Spa]

Please read the posts before replying. Then, read them again. You're talking about a pool, in response to a post that SPECIFICALLY says a pool salt system uses about 4 times as much salt as the ACE system.

Your experience is completely and totally irrelevant in comparison to the ACE system.

Now if you've worked on a salt spa system...well, what was the salt content (ppm). If 4 times as high as the ACE system, again, completely and totally irrelevant comparison.

p.s. punctuation saves lives... "Lets eat, Grandma"...."Lets eat Grandma"

[hd2000]

"no i have worked on a few salt water spa's and pools and with what i have learned and had to fix,clean and replace ,pump seals salt generators,pipes and fittings in a salt water pool that i looked after i can't promote a salt water system.did the sales guy speak about these things? no they dont they just want you to buy one so they can soak you over the years for service.1 of the salt systems that i cared for would go thru pump seals monthly. the girls that did the pool would bring water to the shop daily for balancing and still the thing would eat seals.and to top that the pool was only 5 years old and the salt f**ked that pool so bad that they had to have some one come in and chip away and grind the pool down so that it could be refinished and resealed after all that they got rid of the salt and went to a chlorine system.so my view of a salt system is a big waste of your money "

You obviously have no knowledge of the ACE system since it is in no way related to any past salt system used in spas or pools. It works nothing like a pool system or past spa systems for that matter. It does not infuse nearly the amount of salt into the water and it doesn't even generate chlorine in the same manner. Besides all that, I have confidence in my dealer and Hot Spring to repair any seals for the life of the warranty which is for 5 years on the pumps, jets, plumbing, etc. Since my spa isn't made of cement, I doubt I'll have anyone grind it down, and I'd imagine the warranty for 7 years on the tub surface would cover it anyway. If it goes through seals monthly, then HS will be paying for them, not me, but I doubt they would sell a system that is that harsh on the equipment. I guess you have little faith in the company. Oh well, many of us do. I'm using just a handful of salt per month using the spa 5-6 times a week. How much salt did that pool use? I also talked to several people that have the ACE system as well as the dealer and guess what. Nobody has had any issues with it! No leaking seals, no surface pitting, nothing but high marks from actual users of it and no repairs for the techs. Bottom line is that you simply can not compare or relate the ACE system to any pool salt system or any other spa salt system. One last thing. Here is a copy of the ACE owners manual that tells how to clean the cell with those "VERY HARSH" chemicals you spoke of:

Cell Cleaning

Periodic cleaning of the ACE cell is recommended to maximize the life of your equipment. Use of the Vanishing Act calcium remover will help reduce the cleaning frequency. On average, the cell should be cleaned every 3 months. When the status message on the screen indicates Low Salt and the water has not been changed or topped off recently, it may be time to clean the cell.

1. Turn off the power to the spa. Open the spa cover and remove the filter lid.

2. Unscrew gray filter cap and gently pull the cell out of the filter.

3. Unscrew the lid to the cleaning bottle included with the ACE system and fill with spa water to the fill-line indicated on the bottle. Add 1 tablespoon of pH down to the cleaning bottle and secure lid. Shake bottle to create cleaning solution.

4. Remove the lid from the cleaning bottle. Place the cell in the bottle, ensuring that the bottom of cell is floating.

5. Soak the cell for 10 minutes or until bubbles stop coming from the cell. If bubbles are still releasing from the cell after 10 minutes, change the cleaning solution and repeat.

Spa water and a tablespoon of PH down. Harsh indeed!

[PoolSpaGuy30]

i am overwhelmed (yes by the buying process of alot of $$) BUT more so by the quick, helpful rsvp's/commnets i am getting on this Forum

sooo helpful

the only thing i am going to add is to stay away from the salt system they can be a bugger to deal with some times and nobody talks much about the down side of salt. like bonding ALL metals around the spa, how hard they are on pump seals. also once in a while the cell needs to be cleaned with VERY HARSH chemicals and that these cells do wear out and need to be replaced . or how hard salt is on concrete(etching)and how fast salt will rot wood.if you use a salt system you will be adding lots of acid to keep the PH creep under control and then the alkalinity drops so you add some of that then the next day you add acid because the PH is creeping up again. something like a dog chasing its tail all day.

You make it seem like the ACE system is using ocean type water or something. It's a salt system, yes, but the amount of salt that actually enters the water is very minimal. It's low enough to still be considered fresh water and you can not even taste the salt in the water. It's about 1,200 ppm. Salt water in the ocean is around 35,000ppm and in a pool with a salt system, about 4 times what is in a ACE system.

no i have worked on a few salt water spa's and pools and with what i have learned and had to fix,clean and replace ,pump seals salt generators,pipes and fittings in a salt water pool that i looked after i can't promote a salt water system.did the sales guy speak about these things? no they dont they just want you to buy one so they can soak you over the years for service.1 of the salt systems that i cared for would go thru pump seals monthly. the girls that did the pool would bring water to the shop daily for balancing and still the thing would eat seals.and to top that the pool was only 5 years old and the salt f**ked that pool so bad that they had to have some one come in and chip away and grind the pool down so that it could be refinished and resealed after all that they got rid of the salt and went to a chlorine system.so my view of a salt system is a big waste of your money .

this much mis-information only warrants a

[bobbibong]

another option to Hotspring floor models are the Jacuzzi J335/J345 (same tub but one has lounger)

the J335 says 4-5 adults but looks more like 3!!!!!!!

problem is i can not wet test the Jacuzzi j335 as shrink wrapped- but dealer will give a 15% discount?

Jacuzzi also offers a 6 month interest free thre GE

opionions on two brands??

warranty for Jacuzzi is 10/5/3

believe Hotspring is 7/5/1??

[hottubdan]

another option to Hotspring floor models are the Jacuzzi J335/J345 (same tub but one has lounger)

the J335 says 4-5 adults but looks more like 3!!!!!!!

problem is i can not wet test the Jacuzzi j335 as shrink wrapped- but dealer will give a 15% discount?

Jacuzzi also offers a 6 month interest free thre GE

opionions on two brands??

warranty for Jacuzzi is 10/5/3

believe Hotspring is 7/5/1??

Hot Spring is 7 years surface/ 5 years parts/ 5 years labor. Don't know what the 1 is you are referring to.

[hd2000]

another option to Hotspring floor models are the Jacuzzi J335/J345 (same tub but one has lounger)

the J335 says 4-5 adults but looks more like 3!!!!!!!

problem is i can not wet test the Jacuzzi j335 as shrink wrapped- but dealer will give a 15% discount?

Jacuzzi also offers a 6 month interest free thre GE

opionions on two brands??

warranty for Jacuzzi is 10/5/3

believe Hotspring is 7/5/1??

Jacuzzi makes a nice tub, but you're a little off on the warranty info. Yes you get 10, but that's on the structure of the shell against leaking. As far as surface blisters, cracks, and the like, it's 7 years. I tried the 345 (no lounger) and I liked it, but my ultimate decision to go with the HS was in large part due to the dealer that sold the HS vs the Jacuzzi dealer and my past experiance (very good) with HS. The 335 with the lounger would really be tight with 4 in it let alone 5. Having said that, I will also say that ALL spa manufacturers exagerate the number of people thay can hold. It's like a car. Can it actually seat 5? Yes, but you're on top of each other and at least one better be a small child. They all do it so just keep that in mind. Go by your gut, and look at the leg room when judging seating capacity. Your probably correct that it's good for 3 and tight for 4.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

problem is i can not wet test the Jacuzzi j335 as shrink wrapped- but dealer will give a 15% discount?

Is that 15% discount off of what he normally sells the spa for or is it 15% discount off of some inflated price which he never actually sells the spa for because he gives everyone this "15% off" thereby making it the regular selling price. I'm not saying you're not geting a good price, I have no idea but I'm not sure you do either so don't just assume the 15% off is really a savings. Ask to see an invoice for that same spa from the past few months and that will tell you what he's sold it for lately.

[Stuart A]

p.s. punctuation saves lives... "Lets eat, Grandma"...."Lets eat Grandma"

:lol:

[david_bilton]

"no i have worked on a few salt water spa's and pools and with what i have learned and had to fix,clean and replace ,pump seals salt generators,pipes and fittings in a salt water pool that i looked after i can't promote a salt water system.did the sales guy speak about these things? no they dont they just want you to buy one so they can soak you over the years for service.1 of the salt systems that i cared for would go thru pump seals monthly. the girls that did the pool would bring water to the shop daily for balancing and still the thing would eat seals.and to top that the pool was only 5 years old and the salt f**ked that pool so bad that they had to have some one come in and chip away and grind the pool down so that it could be refinished and resealed after all that they got rid of the salt and went to a chlorine system.so my view of a salt system is a big waste of your money "

You obviously have no knowledge of the ACE system since it is in no way related to any past salt system used in spas or pools. It works nothing like a pool system or past spa systems for that matter. It does not infuse nearly the amount of salt into the water and it doesn't even generate chlorine in the same manner. Besides all that, I have confidence in my dealer and Hot Spring to repair any seals for the life of the warranty which is for 5 years on the pumps, jets, plumbing, etc. Since my spa isn't made of cement, I doubt I'll have anyone grind it down, and I'd imagine the warranty for 7 years on the tub surface would cover it anyway. If it goes through seals monthly, then HS will be paying for them, not me, but I doubt they would sell a system that is that harsh on the equipment. I guess you have little faith in the company. Oh well, many of us do. I'm using just a handful of salt per month using the spa 5-6 times a week. How much salt did that pool use? I also talked to several people that have the ACE system as well as the dealer and guess what. Nobody has had any issues with it! No leaking seals, no surface pitting, nothing but high marks from actual users of it and no repairs for the techs. Bottom line is that you simply can not compare or relate the ACE system to any pool salt system or any other spa salt system. One last thing. Here is a copy of the ACE owners manual that tells how to clean the cell with those "VERY HARSH" chemicals you spoke of:

Cell Cleaning

Periodic cleaning of the ACE cell is recommended to maximize the life of your equipment. Use of the Vanishing Act calcium remover will help reduce the cleaning frequency. On average, the cell should be cleaned every 3 months. When the status message on the screen indicates Low Salt and the water has not been changed or topped off recently, it may be time to clean the cell.

1. Turn off the power to the spa. Open the spa cover and remove the filter lid.

2. Unscrew gray filter cap and gently pull the cell out of the filter.

3. Unscrew the lid to the cleaning bottle included with the ACE system and fill with spa water to the fill-line indicated on the bottle. Add 1 tablespoon of pH down to the cleaning bottle and secure lid. Shake bottle to create cleaning solution.

4. Remove the lid from the cleaning bottle. Place the cell in the bottle, ensuring that the bottom of cell is floating.

5. Soak the cell for 10 minutes or until bubbles stop coming from the cell. If bubbles are still releasing from the cell after 10 minutes, change the cleaning solution and repeat.

Spa water and a tablespoon of PH down. Harsh indeed!

and how do they say to deal with the PH creep issue? it does not matter what salt system you use they all work the same way ,water passes by a small electoral field to make the chlorine and in return you get the creep

[waterbear]

and how do they say to deal with the PH creep issue? it does not matter what salt system you use they all work the same way ,water passes by a small electoral field to make the chlorine and in return you get the creep

Very easy. Just lower the TA to lower the outgassing of CO2 and pH rise is dratically reduced. The addition of borates to 50 ppm helps even more, which is why so many of the proprietary salt mixes like Bioguard's Mineral Springs and Natural Chemitry's Salt Water Magic contain borates.

The "creep: you describe is actually caused by the hydrogen bubbles that form at the electrode causing carbon dioxide to gas off.

Outgassing of CO2 is the main factor that causes pH rise in pool and spas. The higher the TA the the more carbonation in the water ahd the faster the outgassing.

The lower the pH the more carbonic acid (carbon dioxide in the water vs bicarbonate ions) and the faster the outgassing.

Basic rules of pool and spa water chemistry that most people don't really understand.

[hd2000]

"and how do they say to deal with the PH creep issue? it does not matter what salt system you use they all work the same way ,water passes by a small electoral field to make the chlorine and in return you get the creep "

They don't say. Probably because it doesn't. At least mine doesn't. I got the TA and PH balanced when I filled the tub, and it's remained as stable as my previous tub where I added the chlorine. Again, you're trying to relate the ACE system to a salt system pool. Particularly a cement pool that I assume has had the walls plastered. Guess what! The pool itself is adding to the ph drift but it will decrease over time, and your still ignoring the salt levels of a ACE system compared to a typical pool. You obviously have a case against salt water systems, so I guess it's a good thing you don't live in Australia where almost all of the pools use salt. Since they have been using salt systems in pools here for about 30 years now, and about 1/2 of the new pools use them, I have serious doubts about the reliability of your opinion. Did you know that a lot of hotels and public pools are converting to salt? Why would they do that if it's so bad? You lost me when you claimed replacing pump seals every month. All that tells me is that the system was improperly used (abused?), poorly serviced, and if you were the one working on it, obviously you didn't have a clue on how to get it functioning properly.

[spawn]

another option to Hotspring floor models are the Jacuzzi J335/J345 (same tub but one has lounger)

the J335 says 4-5 adults but looks more like 3!!!!!!!

problem is i can not wet test the Jacuzzi j335 as shrink wrapped- but dealer will give a 15% discount?

Jacuzzi also offers a 6 month interest free thre GE

opionions on two brands??

warranty for Jacuzzi is 10/5/3

believe Hotspring is 7/5/1??

bobbibong - Jacuzzi and Hot Springs are both great brands and will give years of service. As for the J-335 vs J-345, I would not get any tub with a lounge unless you have tried it and determined that it works well for you so that would definitely rule out the 335 for me (plus, I am not a lounge guy anyway - much written about this if you search). The J-345 is great tub with four nice corner seats, big footwell and foot jets that have plenty of power (I found that most foot jets don't have enough power, but when a tub does, they are great). I find the Jacuzzi seats in general to be more comfortable than the sculpted seats that some brand have. While it is best to wet test if you had to buy a tub that you couldn't test the J-345 would be a pretty safe bet. The J-345 was one of my final choices but I ended up with a different brand because a different manufacturer was a better value in my market.