Electrical Usage

[Chas]

Sidestep. Did not answer the questions. Same old Jim.

For that price, I don't know how you can get glazed panels. If you are not getting glazed panels, I strongly doubt that you will get the temps you need to keep the tub as hot as you mention.

I would certainly aim to keep the tub at the temperature you like it - perhaps set the solar system to one or two degrees above. Set the solar to 105 and the electric heater to 102. If your tub cools so fast that it drops from 125 to 104 from sunset to evening, then you should go for more insulation before solar.

Also - assuming that these panels do get the water hot enough, be careful about overheating. The tub should have a high limit system which will shut everything down if the water gets above the setpoint. For most tubs, that is around 108. So the solar gets the water too hot, the spa system will shut down and need to be reset.

[JohnD]

I spent some time on the phone with the hydro company and came up with more accuate numers based on actual readings done since I got the spa. I am not happy with this spa's performance but I am giving them a chance to rectify the situation.

dean,

if you are in London Ontario,

I'd be happy to install an Energy Monitor on your spa for 30 days and have it track the actual KWH that your spa is using.

We have Monitored D1, Sundance, Coleman and Artesian spas so far and have not seen any of them pass $40 in hydro cost for the 30 days they were monitored at winter temps from - 5C to -28C.

John

Factory Direct Spas

[deandog]

dean,

if you are in London Ontario,

I'd be happy to install an Energy Monitor on your spa for 30 days and have it track the actual KWH that your spa is using.

We have Monitored D1, Sundance, Coleman and Artesian spas so far and have not seen any of them pass $40 in hydro cost for the 30 days they were monitored at winter temps from - 5C to -28C.

John

Factory Direct Spas

Hi John,

I was in your store again on Sat. aft and we talked about my tub. I got some shock and my little guy got a rubber duck from your other staff member. I appreciate your expert advice regarding chemicals and things have been great since I stopped micromanaging the spa. As we have discussed and from my previous post you probably have a pretty good idea of the problems I am having with energy costs. What I am doing now without a meter is the following. I know my avg daily usage for the last 2 years to be about 71 Kwh/day so I add 20 to that number when we are all home and subtract 20 when we are away during the day and everything is off. I then take the daily reading at the same time every day and sutract those numbers, I have made a excell spreadsheet with all the calculations to give me the cost of the tub and normal cost usage. It's the best I can do to try to figure out the huge increase in my bill. (~ 200.00 last month) I would love to put a meter on it and if you ever come out this way to Seaforth perhaps you could stop in ( I would really appreciate it). I could return it to you when the month is up and I need more chemicals. That would be fantastic to get to the bottom of this. I am hoping the new spa pack and the 240 V 1 amp circ pump that is replacing the 115 4 amp will make a difference with the insulation. I am sure that I will see a change right away if the heater was running on 115V due to contacts sticking on the board. They also are assuring me that the ozonator is supposed to shut off as soon as any button is touched on the spa control and they are sending me a 240V ozonator to go with everything else. The tech who was out said that the ozone has to shut off and this is a defect in the board. ( I don't know who to believe anymore).

thanks John,

Dean

by the way the spatech who was out to my place put my filter setting to filter continuously F1LC and I was told to change it to F1L8 so that it filters every 8 hours by hydrospa. Why would he do that and am I better off now with 3 x a day. (will the tub stay clean enough) What are the cost differences? Could you explain to me what exactly the tub does during a filter cycle and what it does if it's filtering continuously. I have recieved the new spa pack and am awaiting the circ pump and ozonator still. The circ pump was sent yesterday and the ozonator is on back order. They figure about a month for that so I will have to go without it for a while. They say once the board is converted totally to 240V with the new circ pump the ozonator in there can't be used because the higher voltage will fry it. They have also said that the circ pump in there now is drawing a contiunal 4 amps and the new one will only draw 1 amp. Also the draw with the 240 V Ozone will be be less. So there will be some saving's there ( not enough to explain the daily increase of 65 to 75 kwh/day) I sure hope they get to the bottom of it soon because it's costing me a fortune to run everyday. Therefore it's very hard to enjoy.

[jmendoza17]

I sure hope they get to the bottom of it soon because it's costing me a fortune to run everyday. Therefore it's very hard to enjoy.

Deandog,

We just got our bill and compared to months that we did not have the spa, it is up by about $200. The Hydrospa Manual does a very poor job of explaning ayhting other than the basic jet and heater controls,. Mine contains absolutely no information on changing filtratiion cycles.

What I don't understand is how two people can have such similar issues while most other users say their costs are under $50 a month. Our price per KW/Hr is about 30 cents, so its not hard to calculate. Hope we figure it out soon.

I have been told repeatedly that a spa is meant to stay hot all the time and that under typical 1/2 hour daily use should cost about $1-a-day. The Platinum Elite is exceeding that by 6x.

[Roger]

Deandog,

We just got our bill and compared to months that we did not have the spa, it is up by about $200. The Hydrospa Manual does a very poor job of explaning ayhting other than the basic jet and heater controls,. Mine contains absolutely no information on changing filtratiion cycles.

What I don't understand is how two people can have such similar issues while most other users say their costs are under $50 a month. Our price per KW/Hr is about 30 cents, so its not hard to calculate. Hope we figure it out soon.

I have been told repeatedly that a spa is meant to stay hot all the time and that under typical 1/2 hour daily use should cost about $1-a-day. The Platinum Elite is exceeding that by 6x.

If the outside ambient is cold enough (below freezing) with a poorly insulated tub you may be better off filtering continuosly, reason: the circ pump itself creates heat and depending on the size of the pump it may create enough to reduce, or in a well insulated spa, eliminate the heat loss out the sides of the vessel. If it's just a small circ pump like in a HS for instance it only draws as much as a 75 watt light buld and will only filter continuosly. Also if it's cold and your tub is pooly insulated your heating/filter pump will continue to turn on and off based on the temperature drop in the water and this is not good either. So a contiuos filter may be better for not only heat loss but also for longevity of relays and pump motor, And in some of the lower end inexpensive controllers the relays longevity is suspect anyway!!

[New NW tub owner]

Deandog,

We just got our bill and compared to months that we did not have the spa, it is up by about $200. The Hydrospa Manual does a very poor job of explaning ayhting other than the basic jet and heater controls,. Mine contains absolutely no information on changing filtratiion cycles.

What I don't understand is how two people can have such similar issues while most other users say their costs are under $50 a month. Our price per KW/Hr is about 30 cents, so its not hard to calculate. Hope we figure it out soon.

I have been told repeatedly that a spa is meant to stay hot all the time and that under typical 1/2 hour daily use should cost about $1-a-day. The Platinum Elite is exceeding that by 6x.

jmendoza, you have been posting here about the high energy use of your tub for months, even when it allegedly was not running do to being broken down. My tub uses about 10 kwh per day. At your astoundingly high cost for power if 30 cents per kwn, that would cost you $90 per month. You must be generating the power yourself with a briggs and stratton engine banging away to have a 30 cents per kwn power cost. If I was paying anything close to 30 cents per kwh, I would consider other water heating options such as a propane or natural gas heater or solar heating panels or something like that.

[jmendoza17]

jmendoza, you have been posting here about the high energy use of your tub for months, even when it allegedly was not running do to being broken down. My tub uses about 10 kwh per day. At your astoundingly high cost for power if 30 cents per kwn, that would cost you $90 per month. You must be generating the power yourself with a briggs and stratton engine banging away to have a 30 cents per kwn power cost. If I was paying anything close to 30 cents per kwh, I would consider other water heating options such as a propane or natural gas heater or solar heating panels or something like that.

I did not post looking for unfounded criticism or pithy answers. I posted the situation because, like deandog and others, I am experiencing something that is contrary to most of what I have been told and read about spa ownership. The fact that my overall experience with Hydrospa has been pretty crappy is another matter that is hopefully behind us. Now that everything on our spa works normally, it is sucking up nearly $200 a month in juice. The cost of electricity is southern California is high and that is just a fact of life to deal with. But the riddle of this Hydrospa unit and the fact that I am not the only one facing the issue points to a problem with the spa. Since it is a mechanical device, there is a logical explanation. If anyone is experiencing a similar situation, or can shed some light on the reasons for these high costs, I would appreciate it.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

jmendoza, you have been posting here about the high energy use of your tub for months, even when it allegedly was not running do to being broken down. My tub uses about 10 kwh per day. At your astoundingly high cost for power if 30 cents per kwn, that would cost you $90 per month. You must be generating the power yourself with a briggs and stratton engine banging away to have a 30 cents per kwn power cost. If I was paying anything close to 30 cents per kwh, I would consider other water heating options such as a propane or natural gas heater or solar heating panels or something like that.

If the guy is having issues with the cost of his running his spa I'd expect him to continue to talk about it. Especailly if someone else is having the same problem because this is where people come to hlep fix their issues. The answer is not to find an alternative way to heat the spa. He needs to find a way to better insulate it and keep that heat in.

[flibotte]

or return it and get a spa that fits his needs.

[jmendoza17]

or return it and get a spa that fits his needs.

Returning it is the option I want to do as a last resort because its a huge and expensive hassle for me to get the thing craned out of my yard and another reinstalled. But honestly, the Hot Spring models are looking really tempting-- partcularly if the truly operate at a buck a day. I could deal with $60 a month, but $200 is ridiculous.

[paintnsunni]

I thought costco agreed to crane it out of your yard at no cost and replace it with a spa of you choice that they had in store or online?

[jmendoza17]

They did, but the pad and electrical are set up for the PEII so if I can get it to work then that is my first choice. I came that conclusion long ago and otherwise would have already returned it. If $1-a-day is the norm, then ours must be off in some fixable way. I have it on economy mode at 100 degerees and the filtration is set for 2 2-hour-per-day cycles. So in theory, it should do as it is supposed to.

Brent Hamm said he was going to meter his and post results, but I have not seen anything. I am hoping for a solution, because it this point I am starting to enjoy using it. To me though. no spa is worth $200 a month to operate. I'm sure there is an explanation to be found.

[flibotte]

I don't think a buck a day is the norm for the PEII. I think 200 a month is unusually high but 30 a month isn't the norm either from my experience. I have 2 friends with them and they are about 80-100 a month in winter time. All the lower end tubs I've seen look exactly the same underneath. Some foam blowed in underneath. I've seen the Gulf Coast, PEII, and my Keys tub and they all have almost the exact same insulation and each tub is about 80-100 bucks a month in winter.

What are you going to do about your tub? Are you going to try and add insulation?

[jmendoza17]

I don't think a buck a day is the norm for the PEII. I think 200 a month is unusually high but 30 a month isn't the norm either from my experience. I have 2 friends with them and they are about 80-100 a month in winter time. All the lower end tubs I've seen look exactly the same underneath. Some foam blowed in underneath. I've seen the Gulf Coast, PEII, and my Keys tub and they all have almost the exact same insulation and each tub is about 80-100 bucks a month in winter.

What are you going to do about your tub? Are you going to try and add insulation?

Don't know yet Flibotte. California is not a particularly cold place. I'm sure people who live through sub-zero winters would think 40 degrees is not very cold, so it seems that something is drastically amiss even for winter. I could live with 80-100 bucks for a few months, but if I find out that this is the norm then no way am I going to keep it. I may try adding insulation, but am skeptical about how much of a difference it could make and if there is any risk of overheating.

[Chas]

I would sure find a way to meter the tub first.

That way you will know some very important things:

• The actual power consumed by the tub
• If your modifications - adding insulation or whatever - are helping.
• HOW MUCH the changes help if they do help.

Did I read in another thread that you have a meter available to you?

You could put a simple amp meter on one of the main wires from the circuit breaker, and get an exact amp rating for the various modes of operation:

• Heating
• Jets all one
• Blower (if so equipped)
• Circulation with no heat
• Filter cycle.

Then you could do your best to figure out how many hours a day the heat is running. Do some math to get an approximate number of KiloWatt hours.

Wow - it would be easier to wire in a meter!

How about your local utility - would they loan you a meter?

[jmendoza17]

I would sure find a way to meter the tub first.

That way you will know some very important things:

• The actual power consumed by the tub
• If your modifications - adding insulation or whatever - are helping.
• HOW MUCH the changes help if they do help.

Did I read in another thread that you have a meter available to you?

You could put a simple amp meter on one of the main wires from the circuit breaker, and get an exact amp rating for the various modes of operation:

• Heating
• Jets all one
• Blower (if so equipped)
• Circulation with no heat
• Filter cycle.

Then you could do your best to figure out how many hours a day the heat is running. Do some math to get an approximate number of KiloWatt hours.

Wow - it would be easier to wire in a meter!

How about your local utility - would they loan you a meter?

Great ideas, but I don't have a meter available. Need to find a way to get one.

[Chas]

Great ideas, but I don't have a meter available. Need to find a way to get one.

Well, I'm looking into purchasing a Data Logger which would be fairly easy to connect to your spa. It would record the amperage for a month, and then we could download and print out a graph. It looks like something I might get good use out of - but I don't have it yet. I have some questions to ask of the manufacturers, and it's the weekend right now.

I'll post back if I figure out which one I can afford .. I was thinking of charging a flat fee of $35 for a month, plus shipping. Just enough to help pay for the thing in a couple of years if enough people use it. Does that sound like something you would be iinterested in?

I'm hoping to help folks on the board, as well as my local customers to track the actual cost of the tub, hopefully without having to hire an electrician. However, if they do hire an electrician, it would be an easy service call so it might not be much to have this device put in place. A DIY with basic skills could most do it in a couple of minutes, if you feel safe working around wiring.

[Tyler]

Well, I'm looking into purchasing a Data Logger which would be fairly easy to connect to your spa. It would record the amperage for a month, and then we could download and print out a graph. It looks like something I might get good use out of - but I don't have it yet. I have some questions to ask of the manufacturers, and it's the weekend right now.

I'll post back if I figure out which one I can afford .. I was thinking of charging a flat fee of $35 for a month, plus shipping. Just enough to help pay for the thing in a couple of years if enough people use it. Does that sound like something you would be interested in?

I'm hoping to help folks on the board, as well as my local customers to track the actual cost of the tub, hopefully without having to hire an electrician. However, if they do hire an electrician, it would be an easy service call so it might not be much to have this device put in place. A DIY with basic skills could most do it in a couple of minutes, if you feel safe working around wiring.

Good idea Chas. Sign me up for your program once you get your equipment. I'm sure Paint and some others would be up for it also.

[jmendoza17]

Well, I'm looking into purchasing a Data Logger which would be fairly easy to connect to your spa. It would record the amperage for a month, and then we could download and print out a graph. It looks like something I might get good use out of - but I don't have it yet. I have some questions to ask of the manufacturers, and it's the weekend right now.

I'll post back if I figure out which one I can afford .. I was thinking of charging a flat fee of $35 for a month, plus shipping. Just enough to help pay for the thing in a couple of years if enough people use it. Does that sound like something you would be iinterested in?

I'm hoping to help folks on the board, as well as my local customers to track the actual cost of the tub, hopefully without having to hire an electrician. However, if they do hire an electrician, it would be an easy service call so it might not be much to have this device put in place. A DIY with basic skills could most do it in a couple of minutes, if you feel safe working around wiring.

I would do it for $35 a month. I would even pay the UPS shipping and insurance.

[Jim_The_Jim]

The only accurate way to measure electric use is to use a watt meter identical in funtion to the electric meter your power company uses. The inductive readings are different than simply time and amp measurements.

[Chas]

The only accurate way to measure electric use is to use a watt meter identical in funtion to the electric meter your power company uses. The inductive readings are different than simply time and amp measurements.

I already have two meters like the power company uses: one for 220 hardwire installation and one for 110 plug 'n play. But they are big, heavy, and very hard to ship. Of course the 220 model has to be hardwired into the sub panel or main panel, and that's not too tough for an electrician but above most DIY folks. They also have glass enclosures which could be damaged if dropped.

I just ordered one of these:

Should be in late next week. I'll keep you posted.

PS - I popped for the optional software and cable so the data can be downloaded into an Excel spreadsheet - or posted on a web board....

[deandog]

Deandog,

We just got our bill and compared to months that we did not have the spa, it is up by about $200. The Hydrospa Manual does a very poor job of explaning ayhting other than the basic jet and heater controls,. Mine contains absolutely no information on changing filtratiion cycles.

What I don't understand is how two people can have such similar issues while most other users say their costs are under $50 a month. Our price per KW/Hr is about 30 cents, so its not hard to calculate. Hope we figure it out soon.

I have been told repeatedly that a spa is meant to stay hot all the time and that under typical 1/2 hour daily use should cost about $1-a-day. The Platinum Elite is exceeding that by 6x.

Hi J,

They instructed me to touch both pumps at the same time and then the up key in order to get into the spa cycle program. When I did that it was in continuous cycle range. I hope we get to the bottom of this soon as well.

Dean

[pmj]

We also just bought a Sundance Caprio. Just today we got our first month electric bill which was $40 higher than last month's...the initial fill up and heating of the water was on last month's bill.

We use it as you do, almost each night, just 2 of us. We are set up on 220v and keep it set at 101.

We live in New Englad, where the weather has been frigid the last 2 weeks so we may have been using more electricity inside as well.

Aside from the electric bill, do you love it ? I love this tub. It fits me just right as I am short, perfect for 2 or 3 people, cozy for 4.

pmj

We reciently purchased a sundance caprio, and it seems that the electric use is to high. We are setup on 220v keep the tub at 100 and it cycles twice a day for 20 min. and we use it each night for 20 min.

Our electric bill jumped $100 per month, and the average KWH jumped 10 more per day. We talked to other poeple who live by us and they say that they never noticed a jump in there bill. Anybody have any ideas? We expected to pay an extra $30/month not $100.

[Brent Hamm]

Sorry about the metering. I could not get it this last weekend cause they were using it.

Hopefully the weekend coming up.

On a side note, we just got our bill for a very cold month. Total energy usage for our house is $275. Its a new house, sorta big, 4 kids, floor heat in garage and basement. We do not have natural gas, just hydro. Spa is in the open, used every day, and kept at 104 all the time.

So..there is no way my spa is adding 100-200 bucks a month.

[jmendoza17]

Sorry about the metering. I could not get it this last weekend cause they were using it.

Hopefully the weekend coming up.

On a side note, we just got our bill for a very cold month. Total energy usage for our house is $275. Its a new house, sorta big, 4 kids, floor heat in garage and basement. We do not have natural gas, just hydro. Spa is in the open, used every day, and kept at 104 all the time.

So..there is no way my spa is adding 100-200 bucks a month.

How much do you pay per KWH? Our rates are high, about $.30 US.