sdriv Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm trying to decide if it is worth having my Optima switched over to 60 amp to be able to run the pumps and heater at the same time, or with normal use, will 50 amp witch does not allow the heater to work when the pumps are on HI be sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm trying to decide if it is worth having my Optima switched over to 60 amp to be able to run the pumps and heater at the same time, or with normal use, will 50 amp witch does not allow the heater to work when the pumps are on HI be sufficient? It all depends on how much you run your pumps when you're in the spa. Are you annoyed because the water temp drops while you're in the spa? Then change the service. If it's not dropping much or not bothering you, leave it be. Changing the service might be expensive. You could potentially have to pull larger wire, which isn't cheap (could be hundreds, depending on the length of the run), get a permit, a 60 amp GFCI or GFCI breaker (cheaper to get the entire box at Lowe's, but still about $100) and maybe a 60 amp regular breaker (maybe $20). I would guess that if you're asking then it's not been enough of a problem for you to warrant the expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdriv Posted October 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 Well I actually don't have the tub hooked up yet. That's why I was curious if people find it to be a problem not having the heater being able to work with the pumps. I will be running the wire in the next few days and I have purchased both the 50 and 60 amp disconnects so I could go either way. Problem is I will have to call a technition in to switch the jumper in the control box if I want to go with the 60. Just looking for feedback since this is my first tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well I actually don't have the tub hooked up yet. That's why I was curious if people find it to be a problem not having the heater being able to work with the pumps. I will be running the wire in the next few days and I have purchased both the 50 and 60 amp disconnects so I could go either way. Problem is I will have to call a technition in to switch the jumper in the control box if I want to go with the 60. Just looking for feedback since this is my first tub.I just got an Optima (one week ago) do the 60 AMP, now that I say that I realize I don't know where you live. I'm in Iowa and for a couple days we had it set on the 50A setting, in half an hour with both pumps running we could lose a couple degrees, and it was only in the 40's. You can easily change the setting yourself. Take off the outer panel and the control panel cover (turn off the power first) the jumpers are in the upper left corner. Place the jumper on both pins of #7 (you may need to use needle nose pliers) and you are done. Reassemble and off you go - no need for a technician, if you are not convinced, have your electrician do it when they hook it up - if you are doing the wiring yourself there is NO reason you shouldn't move the jumper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdriv Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks Fetzervalve!! That what I was thinking. Since I am running the wires I will hook it up for 60 amp. I was just unsure about the "minor modification" as the manual calls it. They don't give any info on how to switch it for 60 amp. I live in NY so we do get cold in the winter months. Although my "new to me tub" is a 2002 I would think the modification is pretty much the same as yours. Any chance you could snap a pic of it so I have a reference? Thanks a bunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Thanks Fetzervalve!! That what I was thinking. Since I am running the wires I will hook it up for 60 amp. I was just unsure about the "minor modification" as the manual calls it. They don't give any info on how to switch it for 60 amp. I live in NY so we do get cold in the winter months. Although my "new to me tub" is a 2002 I would think the modification is pretty much the same as yours. Any chance you could snap a pic of it so I have a reference? Thanks a bunch I missed the 2002 part, I don't know if they are the same or not. I will try to get a picture if you can wait till the weekend, it's raining for the next couple days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 OK, didn't understand from your original post that you haven't installed the electrical yet. There's no good reason in my view not to go with a 60A electrical installation. Can you return the 50A parts? MAke sure you (or your electrician) uses a wire gage that supports 60A. Best plan is to put a 60A non-GFI breaker in the main house panel and install the 60A GFI breaker in the disconnect box out by the spa. This gives the best chance of minimizing nuisance trips due to false ground faults. Conduit in yet? If not, consider sizing it a bit larger and run some extra wire (such as 12g) to support yard outlets, landscape or deck lights, etc. Usually much cheaper and easier to do it now than add it later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_in_NY Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I agree with the previous posts. I purchased a Sundance 680 series this year, and had a new 60A circuit installed so I could run everything at once (first tub so didn't have any circuit before). The electrician who did this work pointed out there is some ambiguity in the codes regarding wire size for 60A due to rounding up, and for long 60A runs he prefers a 'heavier' wire than would otherwise be used for 50A (from memory this was #4 wire instead of the usual #6), but obviously check with your guy as he knows about local codes. So yes, if you have the choice, go for 60A, just make sure all your appliances don't overload the main service breaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firemedic Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I have noticed many times while in my Jacuzzi that the heater is running, of course being new, we're soaking for extended periods of time (usually 1 hour +). If you're just going in for 20 minutes at a time, then the 50 amp would be fine. I am not sorry I went with 60 amp, especially if it's a new install anyway, it's a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Well I actually don't have the tub hooked up yet. That's why I was curious if people find it to be a problem not having the heater being able to work with the pumps. I will be running the wire in the next few days and I have purchased both the 50 and 60 amp disconnects so I could go either way. Problem is I will have to call a technition in to switch the jumper in the control box if I want to go with the 60. Just looking for feedback since this is my first tub.I just got an Optima (one week ago) do the 60 AMP, now that I say that I realize I don't know where you live. I'm in Iowa and for a couple days we had it set on the 50A setting, in half an hour with both pumps running we could lose a couple degrees, and it was only in the 40's. You can easily change the setting yourself. Take off the outer panel and the control panel cover (turn off the power first) the jumpers are in the upper left corner. Place the jumper on both pins of #7 (you may need to use needle nose pliers) and you are done. Reassemble and off you go - no need for a technician, if you are not convinced, have your electrician do it when they hook it up - if you are doing the wiring yourself there is NO reason you shouldn't move the jumper. +1 on the diy- if you're comfortable wiring, the jumper is simple. There will be a wiring diagram on the inside of the controller lid to guide you. Absolutely no reason at all NOT to go 60. Fetzervalve- love the screen name. Remember though, "It's all ball bearings these days.. maybe you need a refresher course.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W. Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I installed a 60 amp circuit and the appropriate wire, but I have 100 amp service to my house, and it's not in the budget to upgrade that. I set the jumpers for 60 amps when we first got it, and with the central air and the pool pump running, I was uncomfortable leaving it set that way. Now that the pool is shut down for the winter and there'll be no air conditioning for several months (I'm in Chicago), I may just reset the jumper for 60 amps until it's time to open the pool in the spring. It's amazing what a 1 degree difference makes when the temperature outside is chilly. Our Optima has a 3 degree range, so if it's set at 100, it starts heating at 99, and shuts off at 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I installed a 60 amp circuit and the appropriate wire, but I have 100 amp service to my house, and it's not in the budget to upgrade that. I set the jumpers for 60 amps when we first got it, and with the central air and the pool pump running, I was uncomfortable leaving it set that way. Now that the pool is shut down for the winter and there'll be no air conditioning for several months (I'm in Chicago), I may just reset the jumper for 60 amps until it's time to open the pool in the spring. It's amazing what a 1 degree difference makes when the temperature outside is chilly. Our Optima has a 3 degree range, so if it's set at 100, it starts heating at 99, and shuts off at 101. 100 amp service to your home is small (must be an older house I would guess) for a 60A spa. But when it's air conditioning weather, the spa heater comes on less, and you may find that you like the water a bit cooler anyway. In any case, the worst that can happen is you trip the 100A main breaker... not a big deal. I bet it wouldn't happen that often. Now if you have AC, pool, electric oven or range, electric clothes dryer, water heater and shop air compressor running... trip! Agree completely - it's surprising how much difference a degree will make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Fetzervalve- love the screen name. Remember though, "It's all ball bearings these days.. maybe you need a refresher course.." Looks like we have some axe men here.... Ball bearings. Love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Fetzervalve- love the screen name. Remember though, "It's all ball bearings these days.. maybe you need a refresher course.." Looks like we have some axe men here.... Ball bearings. Love it. Fletch. Best Chevy Chase movie ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
north_of_boston Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I'm trying to decide if it is worth having my Optima switched over to 60 amp to be able to run the pumps and heater at the same time, or with normal use, will 50 amp witch does not allow the heater to work when the pumps are on HI be sufficient? We haven't decided whether to go Arctic (50a) or Jacuzzi (60amp) .... when we had our old tub installed 12 years ago, we had 50 amp service installed out to it. The breaker in the box is 50 amp, and the GFCI switch on the outside of the house is 60 amp. We do not know if the wire is up to code for 60 amp. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have them "overbuild" the circuit to 60 amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdriv Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Wow!! Everyone thanks for the inpu. I will definately go with the 60 amp. I put in a new 200 amp service when we bought the house so I am set there. My run is about 50 or 60 ft so I'm thinking of going with the #4 but I'm not sure that the lugs will fit #4 I will have to check tomorrow. I will keep you all posted on the progress!!! Tub is sitting here just begging to be run. I have sat in an empty tub everyday since I got it and my wife is starting to look at me funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_in_NY Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Wow!! Everyone thanks for the inpu. I will definately go with the 60 amp. I put in a new 200 amp service when we bought the house so I am set there. My run is about 50 or 60 ft so I'm thinking of going with the #4 but I'm not sure that the lugs will fit #4 I will have to check tomorrow. I will keep you all posted on the progress!!! Tub is sitting here just begging to be run. I have sat in an empty tub everyday since I got it and my wife is starting to look at me funny Your main service panel lugs should be able to take a #4 wire, but the lugs on your tub probably won't. On my 60A setup I have #4 THHN in conduit from the service panel to the outside disconnect, then #6 THHN wire from the outside disconnect to the tub, in sealtight. This wire size may be overkill in some peoples eyes but I'd rather have too much capacity than not enough. Regardless, you need to check codes applicable to your area and setup to determine what's best for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavalier Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 If you stert with a #4 you must finish with a #4. Per code you cannot reduce wire size. The #4 will fit in the Optima. For 60 Amps and that run length you will be well advised to stay with #4awg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_in_NY Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 If you stert with a #4 you must finish with a #4. Per code you cannot reduce wire size. The #4 will fit in the Optima. For 60 Amps and that run length you will be well advised to stay with #4awg. I'm not an electrician but the contractor who installed my circuit said it was perfectly OK to reduce to #6 wire just from the outside disconnect to the tub - this run is only around 15 feet. The town inspector also came out and gave his stamp of approval to this work. The Sundance manual also says it's OK to reduce wire size, quote follows... "When using wire larger than #6 (10 mm²), add a junction box near the spa and reduce to short lengths of #8 (8.4 mm²) wire to connect to the spa." http://www.sundancespas.com/Communications...A_680_OM_EN.pdf Maybe the code is dependant upon where you live? Dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric W. Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 I installed a 60 amp circuit and the appropriate wire, but I have 100 amp service to my house, and it's not in the budget to upgrade that. I set the jumpers for 60 amps when we first got it, and with the central air and the pool pump running, I was uncomfortable leaving it set that way. Now that the pool is shut down for the winter and there'll be no air conditioning for several months (I'm in Chicago), I may just reset the jumper for 60 amps until it's time to open the pool in the spring. It's amazing what a 1 degree difference makes when the temperature outside is chilly. Our Optima has a 3 degree range, so if it's set at 100, it starts heating at 99, and shuts off at 101. 100 amp service to your home is small (must be an older house I would guess) for a 60A spa. But when it's air conditioning weather, the spa heater comes on less, and you may find that you like the water a bit cooler anyway. In any case, the worst that can happen is you trip the 100A main breaker... not a big deal. I bet it wouldn't happen that often. Now if you have AC, pool, electric oven or range, electric clothes dryer, water heater and shop air compressor running... trip! Agree completely - it's surprising how much difference a degree will make. Yes, we have a 60+ year old home that was originally 60 amps with knob and tube wire, and a separate meter for an electric water heater. The service was upgraded to 100 amps and we installed a new breaker panel after we bought it (it was fuses). The problem I see is I think the wire from the meter to the weatherhead (sealed in conduit) was not upgraded, as there was a slight burning smell near the meter the first day when both pumps, the heater, the a/c, and the pool pump were on. We're going to upgrade that wire and the service to 200 amp in the near future. I feel pointless to upgrade the wire in the weatherhead without upgrading the service. In the meantime I bumped down the spa to the 50 amp setting (no heat with both pumps), and everyone knows the pool pump has to be off if you go into the hot tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeffreak Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 My 60A service is a 100' run in 1" conduit individual stranded copper conductor. Voltage drop under load with both pumps and heater running is somewhere around 2%. I think #4 would be overkill unless you were planning on running other stuff off of that branch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Wow!! Everyone thanks for the inpu. I will definately go with the 60 amp. I put in a new 200 amp service when we bought the house so I am set there. My run is about 50 or 60 ft so I'm thinking of going with the #4 but I'm not sure that the lugs will fit #4 I will have to check tomorrow. I will keep you all posted on the progress!!! Tub is sitting here just begging to be run. I have sat in an empty tub everyday since I got it and my wife is starting to look at me funny You don't need anything larger than #6 for this length of run. For > 100 feet you should go up to #4. Overkilling the wire size buys nothing except emptying your wallet. Check your local code.... my comments are based on NEC and my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hot_water Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 If you stert with a #4 you must finish with a #4. Per code you cannot reduce wire size. The #4 will fit in the Optima. For 60 Amps and that run length you will be well advised to stay with #4awg. Are you sure about that? Can you cite a code section? I think you're right only if your installation is required to upsize to the #4 (due to , say, too long of a run)... but I've seen stranger things in the code. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetzervalve Posted October 24, 2009 Report Share Posted October 24, 2009 Fetzervalve- love the screen name. Remember though, "It's all ball bearings these days.. maybe you need a refresher course.." Looks like we have some axe men here.... Ball bearings. Love it. Fletch. Best Chevy Chase movie ever. Best movie ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuAnn Sullivan Posted October 22, 2021 Report Share Posted October 22, 2021 My new hot tub calls for 50 amp at the main and 50 GFCI at the shut off box. The electrician installed a 60 amp breaker in the main. Should this be changed to a 50 amp. If the 60 amp is safe, should a 60 amp GFCI also be installed rather than the recommended 50 amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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