Please Tell Me Again Why I Should Not Buy This Costco Calspa Tub?

[Matt87109]

I had to return a costco tub three years ago (supposedly made by sundance/jacuzzi) due to a leak, yet that experience is not deterring me now for some reason. I went to all the dealers in town and if you recall I said I just was not going to pay the overhead (lets not get into that argument .

Please tell me again why I will regret buying this tub. It's looking real tempting. I'm going to contact costco and find out the exact return policy in case the industry insiders prevail I'm also finding out the extent of its insulation.

I've already decided I just can't fork over 6k for a tub and I'd really like to have some hot bubbly 3-5 nights a week.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...〈=en-US

http://calspas.com/hot_tubs/detail_spas~spaID~285.htm

[Pathfinder]

In any retail outlet you are paying overhead no matter what anyone tells you. With that being said IMO if I had to buy at tub from Costco I would pick the Cal Spa tub. Its going to be the same quality as the Victory or Family fun series which is ok. Cals lower end tubs are of much better quality than any of the other now defunct brands they picked previously.

[hottubdan]

Check out the warranty:

5 Years - Structural

2 Years - Finish

2 Years - Parts

No Warranty on Labor

Almost all the jets are small Euro and Micro.

You are getting a $3,000 spa for $3,000.

[Shaamus]

There's nothing wrong with that spa as long as you know what you're getting. But you're not getting a $6000 tub. The Cal Victory tubs don't sell for that. It's interesting how people assume that if they buy it at Costco they are getting a huge discount. That may be true when you buy laundry detergent and peanut butter when they get you to buy the bigger sizes, but on spas it's just not the case. Outside of some of the super-low price deals (like this one), a spa dealer can put a customer in a comparable spa for the $4000-$5000 that Costco usually charges and you get the support of your local dealer. Though this would appear to be a $4000 spa for $3000 and that is a significant savings, keep that warranty in mind. Labor costs can add up fast and very frequently is as much or more than the parts required to fix the spa.

The one wildcard that Costco has is that return policy, so outside of your time and hassle, you're not risking any money.

[hot_water]

You realize of course that you've likely just invited another round of Costco bashing, right??

I think only you can evaluate the specific tub in light of what you are looking for and the dollars you want to spend. The spa in question has a very basic feature set, but that may be perfectly fine. If you don't use or want certain features, why pay for them? Depending on your objectives, the jets may well work wonderfully.

I do very much like the large water capacity for a 7 foot spa. Personally, I'm not a fan of full foam, but that debate will likely never be settled.

The standout negative thing about this particular tub is the warranty. It's different than the Calspa warranty on their family series (which isn't very good, either), and includes no warranty coverage for labor. Certainly, reducing the warranty is a knob that Calspa turned to reduce the cost of the spa for Costco. On the other hand, at this very low price perhaps it's worth the risk that you might have to pay some charges. Still, my personal feeling is that the warranty on this tub is not good enough, but you may reach a different conclusion. The upside is the Costco return policy, which in my view is an unbeatable consumer safeguard... even though it can be a hassle to return it. I'm not sure if Costco.com will pick up the spa, which would help. A call or email to Costco customer service would answer that question.

Before pulling the trigger on this, I would be curious as to what the "street price" for the Calspa from a dealer is. Costco markups in the warehouse never exceed 14%, but I don't think that holds for items offered exclusively on Costco.com. Costco.com is still often a good deal, but you need to perform your due diligence and shop around. Some Costco.com items just don't look like that good of a deal after shopping. Relevant examples are the Evolution spas they're offering. The pricing on those doesn't seem particularly attractive for what you get... just my perspective, of course.

Good luck, whatever your decision!

-hot_water

[Matt87109]

Thanks for your posts so far. The costco tub lacks the diverter valve and I'm sure other things as well. I indeed was going to go and price the calspa version thanks for the input. I see the no labor part of the warranty a bummer as well. What I'm going to do is find out the time frame at which I can return the tub. If it's 1 year or something to that effect I'll probably buy it (after some more research) and then if at any point "I'm not satisfied with my purchase" I'll send it back. When I sent the last one back they were willing to do anything to not have to take a return. At the time costco told me "you can allow the manufacturer to attempt to repair it but be informed that it's your right to return the product"

I realize this is not a "great tub". If the insulation is decent and I can turn a few screws to keep it going for five years I'll be happy.

[JerimiahR]

Matt,

Frankly, you'll generally find better quality products through your local dealers than through Costco. There's NOTHING wrong with buy products from Costco in general. I love that place! But I'd never buy a hot tub there myself.

For me, the first reason is quality. Much better hot tubs can be found elsewhere. Will you pay more? Yes. But you ALWAYS pay more for quality. That's just how it is. Not only better insulated spas, but spas that have better equipment, are built more soundly, etc.

The second reason for me, is service. Costco simply CANNOT provide you technical support for that hot tub. They'll deliver the spa to your property, but you're responsible for moving it into place and installing it. You're also generally responsible for troubleshooting the spa should you have problems. Because some of those spas are sold exclusively through Costco, it's also not as easy to find a hot tub dealer who services your brand effectively, let alone can deal with warranty issues.

I'm a bit biased toward Hot Spring, being a Hot Spring dealer, but I'd suggest you find your Hot Spring dealer if you haven't. You WILL pay more, but I guarantee you'll be much happier. Ask your local dealer to tell you what's different with their spa compared to the one you're looking at. You'll be surprised how many things can be different.

If you decide to buy a spa from Costco, just do so knowing that you may not have local support if/when problems arise.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Costco.com is still often a good deal, but you need to perform your due diligence and shop around. Some Costco.com items just don't look like that good of a deal after shopping.

-hot_water

Hot Water,

While we may not agree on many things but you seem to have studied up on spas while shopping and/or maybe have a technical background but I'm just curious what brand you ended up purchasing. It's obvious you don't have a Sundance, Hot Spring etc. from your comments about full foam and premium spas but I gotta believe you also avoided low quality, poor performing (and consequently now defunct) brands like Keys and Infinity but I'm curious what you went with. I would probably guess something like Emerald, Vita or something of that sort.

[hot_water]

Costco.com is still often a good deal, but you need to perform your due diligence and shop around. Some Costco.com items just don't look like that good of a deal after shopping.

-hot_water

Hot Water,

While we may not agree on many things but you seem to have studied up on spas while shopping and/or maybe have a technical background but I'm just curious what brand you ended up purchasing. It's obvious you don't have a Sundance, Hot Spring etc. from your comments about full foam and premium spas but I gotta believe you also avoided low quality, poor performing (and consequently now defunct) brands like Keys and Infinity but I'm curious what you went with. I would probably guess something like Emerald, Vita or something of that sort.

I have a Platinum III Legend (Hydrospa), purchased from a Costco warehouse in Jan 2007. So yes I do have a now-defunct brand. I know you are very critical of this brand, and with good reason, as the quality was poor - but mine has been very good. It's got solid, though not top of the line, parts. And the shell seating configuration and size fit my needs brilliantly. In my climate (CA) the air leaks and poor insulation aren't much of an issue, although with ever-increasing electric rates, improvements have been made and now it's quite good. The runner-up was the Sundance Optima. Yes, a much more polished product... but a rather poor value proposition in my humble opinion, and it has that pesky foam. And of course... with Costco there's no risk of getting stuck with a dog.

The only thing I worry about on my Platinum III is the shell. Anything else I can repair. Well, I can repair the shell too.... but if you get a delam there's a good chance you're going to get more as time passes. I have no desire to chase blisters, so if that happens I will send it back. If it doesn't happen, then I'm a happy camper.

For me personally, I don't like today's Costco.com offerings. I'm not saying they aren't good, it's just that they don't fit the bill for me. I still think that the Costco return policy is fantastic insurance for a product that is expensive and likely to have issues - but the current spas offered just don't have the design or features that I favor. Since a spa is an indulgence, it should be something you actually like as well as making practical sense. If I was going to buy a spa today, I would likely get an Arctic. I know that's a high-end brand but the cost isn't so much the issue with me - it's about the value proposition put forth by the product. I think Arctic is thoughtfully designed, correctly done thermal management system, good mechanicals, good bottom pan and a very good shell - nice seating designs and a lifetime structure/water loss guarantee. Unfortunately there's no Arctic dealer around here (San Jose, CA) or I might just be tempted to trade up to an Arctic. I also like Artesian (not as much as Arctic). Even though they are ABS and foam (ugh), I very much like the multiple-pump approach on their higher end units. If we could get individual seat jet pumps on an Arctic, now THAT would be a spa!

-hot_water

[Matt87109]

Matt,

Frankly, you'll generally find better quality products through your local dealers than through Costco. There's NOTHING wrong with buy products from Costco in general. I love that place! But I'd never buy a hot tub there myself.

For me, the first reason is quality. Much better hot tubs can be found elsewhere. Will you pay more? Yes. But you ALWAYS pay more for quality. That's just how it is. Not only better insulated spas, but spas that have better equipment, are built more soundly, etc.

The second reason for me, is service. Costco simply CANNOT provide you technical support for that hot tub. They'll deliver the spa to your property, but you're responsible for moving it into place and installing it. You're also generally responsible for troubleshooting the spa should you have problems. Because some of those spas are sold exclusively through Costco, it's also not as easy to find a hot tub dealer who services your brand effectively, let alone can deal with warranty issues.

I'm a bit biased toward Hot Spring, being a Hot Spring dealer, but I'd suggest you find your Hot Spring dealer if you haven't. You WILL pay more, but I guarantee you'll be much happier. Ask your local dealer to tell you what's different with their spa compared to the one you're looking at. You'll be surprised how many things can be different.

If you decide to buy a spa from Costco, just do so knowing that you may not have local support if/when problems arise.

Thanks for your post. I did go to the HS dealer and liked the Jet Setter. After the dealer told me the price was higher in January than in December and said "sorry prices are going up" I left him my name and phone number and he never called. He offered me 200 dollars less on a 2007 than what he was asking for a 2008 in late 2008.... and the 2009 was nearly 7k. At that point I reevaluated how much money I had talked myself into spending on this purchase and decided I was not going to pay "the going rate" from dealers. Having owned a costco tub before I'm all too aware of the less than perfect experience a certain percentage of people have had. Having already dealt with costco on a previous hot tub return I'm pretty much more than willing to experience it again if this tub is a total dud because costco was PERFECT about it last time. I agree with all you dealers when you mention the additional support and service, but every person has a limit on how much they want to spend for something and the associated head aches. I'm willing to deal with a certain amount of head aches before I up and return the tub to costco on the "reasonable" chance the tub will suffice. I'm also aware of the wet testing results of a number of tubs so basically I'm at the point that I'm willing to make compromises to try using a hot tub on a regular basis. I just flat out can not spend 5-7k on a hot tub.

If I do buy this tub I'll document the whole experience honestly for everybody to read and poke fun.

[hot_water]

Nicely expressed, Matt.

We all get to make our personal choices about what is important to us, how we assign and value risk, and how much money we are willing to part with. Whether a Brand X is better or not better is completely irrelevant if it costs twice what we have or are willing to spend.

If you read this and the other internet forums, you quickly learn that ALL the brands have trouble. Some more than others, true enough, And some are unmitigated disasters, granted. The thing about Costco is that their incomparable policy effectively removes all risk. I would be a little miffed if I bought my Hydrospa from a dealer.... but with Costco, no worries. No matter what anyone says, it's tough to beat that policy.

So, as you (rightly) point out, if you think the Costco Calspa fits your peronal requirements. you can give it try and see how it goes. If at any point the thing stops making you happy, back it goes. And you can pick up some toilet paper and gallon of Windex while you're there.

-hot_water

[soakerguy]

I love my hydrospa Platinum II now on year three. It has been a great value so far and yes, I added insulation and sealed the cabinet but I knew that going in and the fifty dollars and four hours time saved me thousands! If anything is terribly wrong then I will drain the turkey and return it for a ful refund. The risk is zero from my point of view!

[Matt87109]

I love my hydrospa Platinum II now on year three. It has been a great value so far and yes, I added insulation and sealed the cabinet but I knew that going in and the fifty dollars and four hours time saved me thousands! If anything is terribly wrong then I will drain the turkey and return it for a ful refund. The risk is zero from my point of view!

How long will costco take a return? glad you like your spa.

[hot_water]

I love my hydrospa Platinum II now on year three. It has been a great value so far and yes, I added insulation and sealed the cabinet but I knew that going in and the fifty dollars and four hours time saved me thousands! If anything is terribly wrong then I will drain the turkey and return it for a ful refund. The risk is zero from my point of view!

How long will costco take a return? glad you like your spa.

Well, here's the thing about Costco. There's NO TIME LIMIT. Part of the deal with vendors that want to sell through Costco is that they have to agree to honor Costco's full-satisfaction, unlimited warranty, which means they have to eat the returns. The exceptions are computers, TVs and other electronics items, but it's all posted in the store.

This is the silver bullet that makes Costco a viable player. There is no risk. If your shell blisters and cracks in year 6, after the Calspa warranty is over... Costco will take it back. Of course you have to decide if you would feel good about that... it all depends on the circumstance, I suppose.... but it's all up to you to decide if you got your value or if you want to do a return.

By the way, check Costco.com. The 30 jet Calspa is still $3000 and the 45 jet version is now $3500, delivery included. Yikes, that's getting pretty cheap. Two pumps... I would go for the 45 jet, no doubt in my mind.

-hot_water

[Matt87109]

I love my hydrospa Platinum II now on year three. It has been a great value so far and yes, I added insulation and sealed the cabinet but I knew that going in and the fifty dollars and four hours time saved me thousands! If anything is terribly wrong then I will drain the turkey and return it for a ful refund. The risk is zero from my point of view!

How long will costco take a return? glad you like your spa.

Well, here's the thing about Costco. There's NO TIME LIMIT. Part of the deal with vendors that want to sell through Costco is that they have to agree to honor Costco's full-satisfaction, unlimited warranty, which means they have to eat the returns. The exceptions are computers, TVs and other electronics items, but it's all posted in the store.

This is the silver bullet that makes Costco a viable player. There is no risk. If your shell blisters and cracks in year 6, after the Calspa waranty is over... Costco will take it back. Of course you have to decide if you would feel good about that... it all depends on the circumstance, I suppose.... but it's all up to you to decide if you got your value or if you want to do a return.

By the way, check Costco.com. The 30 jet Calspa is still $3000 and the 45 jet version is now $3500, delivery included. Yikes, that's getting pretty cheap. Two pumps... I would go for the 45 jet, no doubt in my mind.

-hot_water

I'm not the type that expects vendors to provide me with free products. All I would use the costco guarantee for is avoiding an albatross. Short of a early defect that severely damages the longevity of the tub I would keep it for the long haul. Just because I don't want to pay a lot for a tub does not mean I'm unfair about things.

I'm leaning to the 30 jet tub as it appears to have a nicer array of jets. The 45jet version has a bunch of tiny jets and granted a second pump. From all my wet testing I learned that more pressure and more jets is not necessarily better at all. It also appears that they can be individual shut off which will work with the single motor better as I can power up one seat at a time if I like (will mostly be for just me). Also it lacks the complexity of a diverter valve (which from my estimate looks like a weak spot on many tubs) unlike the calspa familyII version. Simple is good if I'm going to have to tinker with it from time to time. I really just want the ford truck version of a hot tub and I live in a pretty temperate climate.

[hot_water]

I have the same philosophy about the returns. I think of it as a safety net rather than a free lunch.

As for the choice, this is exactly why everyone has to evaluate for themselves. I'm used to having lots of jets (78) and while I currently have two large pumps that push me out of the seat... I would be satisfied only when the pressure was high enough that it hurt! One can always turn them down at the jet. I find that I like the large jet count because I can turn certain jets on or off to target what is sore or tight. I'm not that impressed with the big cluster jets. Also, I like to be able to run one pump if I'm in there alone and save energy & less noise, too. But again, it's all in what suits you.

Good luck! Hope it's great!

-hot_water

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I have the same philosophy about the returns. I think of it as a safety net rather than a free lunch.

-hot_water

It will be interesting to see if/when Costco changes their return policy on spas much as they've done on some other items. They've been stuck with a bill now for a good number of returns as previous big box suppliers like Hydrospa, Keys, Infinity and now Living Waters all went down the tubes leaving Costco holding the bag. Of course we know they'll make good on their return policy for those who've already purchased so I'm not trying to start a stampede but at some point I gotta think they'll either change their approach and start to carry true quality spas to avoid the problems/returns or limit the no questions asked return to a set time.

[hot_water]

I have the same philosophy about the returns. I think of it as a safety net rather than a free lunch.

-hot_water

It will be interesting to see if/when Costco changes their return policy on spas much as they've done on some other items. They've been stuck with a bill now for a good number of returns as previous big box suppliers like Hydrospa, Keys, Infinity and now Living Waters all went down the tubes leaving Costco holding the bag. Of course we know they'll make good on their return policy for those who've already purchased so I'm not trying to start a stampede but at some point I gotta think they'll either change their approach and start to carry true quality spas to avoid the problems/returns or limit the no questions asked return to a set time.

I've had the same thought. I generally defend Costco as a viable option as I think the value can be pretty good.... but a VERY large part of that value is the return policy. I evaluated a TON of different spas and would *never* have rolled the dice on my Hydrospa, in light of the history of Hydrospa, without the Costco safety net. If Costco keeps getting burned, and they decide to curtail the return policy on spas, a lot of the advantage will be gone. That would be a shame (except for dealers, who would no doubt be delighted).

I did actually call Costco Cust Svc and ask how many spa returns they've been getting on the Hydros and Infinities. The guy on the phone said he didn't have any info on that.... could have been a polite way of saying, "none of your damn business!".

The thing about the return policy is that it should be a strong incentive for a supplier to provide a quality product. You would have to be out of your mind to ink a deal with Costco where you are on the hook for returns - with no time limit - and then sell spas that aren't decently built or that you know only last a few years. The business sense of selling a poor item through Costco escapes me... could be that the wizards at Infinity, Keys, Hydro and now maybe Tatum just aren't very good at business? In which case they were going to fold sooner or later anyway.

Do we know for sure that Living Waters went under? Or did they just lose the Costco deal? Just curious. I didn't know anything in particular about the spas made in their new plant, except that I personally found the "new" Gulf Coast - the only one of theirs that I actually saw - to be an uncomfortable shell design. But I thought the product looked well-finished and the equipment bay was neatly arranged and looked to be easy to work on. The other thing that I didn't like was a video on their website that showed the fiberglass backing being sprayed onto the acrylic shell using a chopper gun rather than hand-lay up cloth. That's a cheap way to do it but not near as stiff, has a much higher thermal expansion coefficient (this isn't necessarily bad if it's close to that of the acrylic - depends on the specific resin they use), and I can't see how you're going to get a reliable bond to the acrylic. But I've seen no info on shell problems with them either way.

-hot_water

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Do we know for sure that Living Waters went under? Or did they just lose the Costco deal?

I was told last month that the bank had taken them over. We then saw the post regarding Costco not doing business with them anymore and yesterday a guy I know who works at Waterway said he was told they were cooked. Of course I'm not sure I'd say that is concrete and I hate to see people loose their jobs but if anyone's departure was going to help improve quality in the industry Living Waters exit was on the short list.

[mtoste]

Do we know for sure that Living Waters went under? Or did they just lose the Costco deal?

I was told last month that the bank had taken them over. We then saw the post regarding Costco not doing business with them anymore and yesterday a guy I know who works at Waterway said he was told they were cooked. Of course I'm not sure I'd say that is concrete and I hate to see people loose their jobs but if anyone's departure was going to help improve quality in the industry Living Waters exit was on the short list.

When I spoke to Living Water Products AKA Tatum Manfacturing they claim they were the one's that stopped doing business with Costco. They claim that Costco wanted them to slash their prices on their spa models and Living Water wasn't willing to cut the prices even lower, so they pulled out of Costco. I had since received an email and phone call from Living Water letting me know that they still have the Pilates 850 availble to purchase directly through them or the Pilates XP2 at a discounted price. They claim they come with the same warrenty as if you bought through Costco, but if it's true the bank took them over then it dosen't even sound like there going to be in business that mutch longer. Below are some of the prices I was quoted for their spas if anyone is interested. I recently ordered the Evolution spa that costco is selling for $3999 that Strong Spa makes, does anyone have any input or information on Strong Spas?

Pilates 850 $3999 Delivered (Same As Costco Was Selling For)

Pilates XP2 Blimished $3400 + $500 delivery=$3,900 only 90day warrenty

Pilates XP2 New $4600+$500 delivery=$5,100 5/2/2year warrenty

[Pathfinder]

Strong makes really nice Resin above ground pools. I havent seen the new spas up close but a couple guys who picked them up for price point tell me they are decent.

[hot_water]

I recently ordered the Evolution spa that costco is selling for $3999 that Strong Spa makes, does anyone have any input or information on Strong Spas?

All I can say about Strong is that I sent them an email asking a few questions about their product and they never bothered to reply. Seems to me that if you have someone that is interested enough to contact you about your multi-thousand dollar product, you might demonstrate the courtesy to at least respond. As far as I'm concerned, one strike and you're out. The thing I was asking about was the $7000 model which isn't at all a low price spa... so the motivation to put up with crummy customer service isn't too "strong".

I hope I'm just being cantankerous, though, and that yours is great!

-hot_water

[Matt87109]

I have the same philosophy about the returns. I think of it as a safety net rather than a free lunch.

-hot_water

It will be interesting to see if/when Costco changes their return policy on spas much as they've done on some other items. They've been stuck with a bill now for a good number of returns as previous big box suppliers like Hydrospa, Keys, Infinity and now Living Waters all went down the tubes leaving Costco holding the bag. Of course we know they'll make good on their return policy for those who've already purchased so I'm not trying to start a stampede but at some point I gotta think they'll either change their approach and start to carry true quality spas to avoid the problems/returns or limit the no questions asked return to a set time.

I agree. Go to the bottom of this link and click on the buyer delivery instructions. It looks like they are claiming there is a 1000 dollar return fee. I'll call costco and find out what that means as it's from the manufacturer. http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11380623

[soakerguy]

That looks to be a Cal spa document that applies to returns to Cal spa. I don't see anything that states you will be charged anything if you return the spa to Costco.

Costco offers a no questions asked 100% satisfaction refund policy with no fine print on the Costco website.

Membership: We will refund your membership fee in full at any time if you are dissatisfied.

Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

How to Return: For an immediate refund (including shipping and handling), simply return your purchase at any one of our Costco warehouses worldwide. If you are unable to return your order at one of our warehouses, please email customer service or call our customer service center at 1-800-955-2292 for assistance. To expedite the processing of your return, please reference your order number.

If you request an item be picked up for return, the item must be packaged and available for pick up in the same manner as it was delivered.

If your order was delivered “curb side,” it will need to be available for curb side pick up.

If the item arrived to you in a box, it will need to be in a box at the time of pic

[Matt87109]

That looks to be a Cal spa document that applies to returns to Cal spa. I don't see anything that states you will be charged anything if you return the spa to Costco.

Costco offers a no questions asked 100% satisfaction refund policy with no fine print on the Costco website.

Membership: We will refund your membership fee in full at any time if you are dissatisfied.

Merchandise: We guarantee your satisfaction on every product we sell with a full refund. Exceptions: Televisions, projectors, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPOD / MP3 players and cellular phones must be returned within 90 days of purchase for a refund.

How to Return: For an immediate refund (including shipping and handling), simply return your purchase at any one of our Costco warehouses worldwide. If you are unable to return your order at one of our warehouses, please email customer service or call our customer service center at 1-800-955-2292 for assistance. To expedite the processing of your return, please reference your order number.

If you request an item be picked up for return, the item must be packaged and available for pick up in the same manner as it was delivered.

If your order was delivered “curb side,” it will need to be available for curb side pick up.

If the item arrived to you in a box, it will need to be in a box at the time of pic

I called and asked costco's customer service. The CS rep said there was no small print and that I could return it ten years later (geeeeze). Anyway after I pointed out the link to the sheet that indicated a 1000 dollar return fee she said she wanted to investigate and would call me in a day or two. She gave me her name and extension. That's reasonable to me... I'll let you know what happens.