Costcohotsprings Vs Keys Backyard

[jmendoza17]

Would very much appreciate input from anyone who has experience or information regarding either the KeysBackyard Concert series spas or the HotSprings model products from Costco. Thank you.

[belairspaguy]

Would very much appreciate input from anyone who has experience or information regarding either the KeysBackyard Concert series spas or the HotSprings model products from Costco. Thank you.

I just recently (July) purchased a new spa from a dealer (Marquis Spas). I would highly recommend you purchase from a dealer that has a service department, rather than Costco or some other mail order outfit. The reason? Simply, that about 6 weeks after purchase my spa had a leak. I simply called the dealer and they came and fixed the spa. It was a leak from one of the jet nozzles, but if this was purchased not from a dealer, who would you call?

You may save a couple of dollars, but I highly recommend a dealer that will service your spa. If you savve $500 on a $6000 spa, but cannot get service, you are out of luck.

Best of luck.

[dlynn]

Would very much appreciate input from anyone who has experience or information regarding either the KeysBackyard Concert series spas or the HotSprings model products from Costco. Thank you.

Your local HotSprings or Keys Dealer would be responsible for service on a spa purchased from Costco. I purchased my spa from Costco and saved a lot of money for the price paid. I know service is an issue but I have checked with some of our local spa dealers and they want the service business. When they do warrenty service they get paid just the same no matter where you bought your spa from. The new in store Spa should be arriving at Costco any time now, you may want to watch for it, I havn't heard who will be making it this year but the Hydro-Spa model sold last year was an excellent buy for the money. I have heard that Sundance will be doing road shows at Costco soon as well.

[flibotte]

I got a keys backyard spa 1 year ago. I am very pleased with the spa overall. I paid 3,700 for the spa and I fell for someone on a tight budget they can be a good option. My advice would be to do your home work and realize what you are getting into. Don’t be fooled into thinking what you are getting is as good as one of the higher end tubs. As the saying goes you get what you pay for. IMO, the 3 big knocks on any of the box store spas (not including the HotSprings one @ Costco) are questions about service, poor insulation, and longevity. For my own experience with support, I had one problem with my tub and I called the support number and they sent a tech out in a couple of days and the problem was fixed at no cost to me. To me lack of insulation on these tubs is the bigger problem, if you live in a cold climate as the electric bill can get up to almost $100 a month in the winter. There have been people on this board who have added insulation to the tubs themselves and they seem to be happy with the improvement. Longevity also would be a concern for me if I wasn’t planning on selling my house next year (if I was staying it would’ve been a tougher decision on getting one of these tubs over one of the higher end brands). You see a lot of posts on here talking about how happy people are with the lower end tubs and that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but it seems like most of the posts are people that have only had the tubs a few months, I think it will be interesting to see how they feel in like 3 or 4 years. If you have any specific questions about the keys spas I would be happy to answer them for you.

[jmendoza17]

I got a keys backyard spa 1 year ago. I am very pleased with the spa overall. I paid 3,700 for the spa and I fell for someone on a tight budget they can be a good option. My advice would be to do your home work and realize what you are getting into. Don’t be fooled into thinking what you are getting is as good as one of the higher end tubs. As the saying goes you get what you pay for. IMO, the 3 big knocks on any of the box store spas (not including the HotSprings one @ Costco) are questions about service, poor insulation, and longevity. For my own experience with support, I had one problem with my tub and I called the support number and they sent a tech out in a couple of days and the problem was fixed at no cost to me. To me lack of insulation on these tubs is the bigger problem, if you live in a cold climate as the electric bill can get up to almost $100 a month in the winter. There have been people on this board who have added insulation to the tubs themselves and they seem to be happy with the improvement. Longevity also would be a concern for me if I wasn’t planning on selling my house next year (if I was staying it would’ve been a tougher decision on getting one of these tubs over one of the higher end brands). You see a lot of posts on here talking about how happy people are with the lower end tubs and that they are the greatest thing since sliced bread but it seems like most of the posts are people that have only had the tubs a few months, I think it will be interesting to see how they feel in like 3 or 4 years. If you have any specific questions about the keys spas I would be happy to answer them for you.

Thanks for the feedback. My biggest concern is energy usage. I live on the west coast and its really warm here most of the year. Have you been able to calculate your energy usage costs. WOuld you mind sharing the general region where you live so I can get a sense of climate. Thanks

[Jim_The_Jim]

Would very much appreciate input from anyone who has experience or information regarding either the KeysBackyard Concert series spas or the HotSprings model products from Costco. Thank you.

The Costco model from Hot Spring is just as good or bad (bad in my opionion) as the stuff in the Hot Spring stores. However, I would go to a Hot Spring store and waste their time and test a Soverign, the same spa for about 7800 in the store. Ask to test a Classic Soveriegn.

And while you are there check to see if they have put in dual safety suctions.

Quoted:

8.0 RETURN INLETS AND SUCTION OUTLETS

8.2.2 A minimum of two (2) suction outlets shall be provided for each pump and the suction outlet system, separated by a minimum of three feet (3) [91.44 cm] or located on two (2) planes; i.e., one (1) on the bottom and one (1) on the vertical wall, or two (2) separate vertical walls. These suction outlets shall be plumbed such that the water is drawn through them simultaneously through a common line to the pump.

Unquote.

And while you are in it put in some music.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

[jmendoza17]

The Costco model from Hot Spring is just as good or bad (bad in my opionion) as the stuff in the Hot Spring stores. However, I would go to a Hot Spring store and waste their time and test a Soverign, the same spa for about 7800 in the store. Ask to test a Classic Soveriegn.

And while you are there check to see if they have put in dual safety suctions.

Quoted:

8.0 RETURN INLETS AND SUCTION OUTLETS

8.2.2 A minimum of two (2) suction outlets shall be provided for each pump and the suction outlet system, separated by a minimum of three feet (3) [91.44 cm] or located on two (2) planes; i.e., one (1) on the bottom and one (1) on the vertical wall, or two (2) separate vertical walls. These suction outlets shall be plumbed such that the water is drawn through them simultaneously through a common line to the pump.

Unquote.

And while you are in it put in some music.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

Thanks. What specifically is the reson for 2 suctions?

[flibotte]

I live in the northeast (RI). I would say that my electric bill is approx in the $75-$85 area in Jan-Feb and probably only about $20-$30 in July-Aug. I use the tub almost every night and I tend to stay in for about 45 min to an hour.

[Trigger]

Jim_the_Jim, an internet spa salesman who rebrands tubs and has had severe customer service trouble (as document on the internet) wrote:

".... However, I would go to a Hot Spring store and waste their time ...

Haw, haw haw. That's just great Jimmy! IS that SOP for you ? o promoting wasting people's time and encouraging them to be decietful?

- I modified my post as not to give folks the impression I seriously was advocating harrasing anybody, but I did want to point out to Jim how his statement "Waste Thier Time" really shows up as mean spirited.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Thanks. What specifically is the reson for 2 suctions?

This is a safety requierment of the ANSI and UL. Each pump needs a second inlet so that if on of the fittings is missing a cover, and you were to place a body part on it, the second suction would be able to take the full draw of the jet pump and the body part can be easily pulled off. With out the second, mitigating, suction fitting all of the draw of the jet pump is in one hole and no human being can pull off of even a relatively small jet pump.

It is for safety.

".... However, I would go to a Hot Spring store and waste their time ...

Haw, haw haw. That's just great Jimmy! Speaking of promoting wasting people's time and encouraging them to be decietful. Since you encourage others to waste time, I'm sure you wouldn't ming if I take this opportunity to say that Another fun thing to do is to call and e-mail Jim and the few misguieded Haven reps using fake emails and waste thier time. Ask for quotes, tell them stories. It's a lot of fun. The few that are out thier don't have a clue about anything.

Ask them about ETL listings, and saftey certifications. Have them put thier answers in writing. (It will come in handy if/when you have to sue them). It's amazing the range of answers you get. I know of folks that have dozens of crazy e-mails and responses from your shills. Call em up! write em emails! Ask intelligent questions about ETL, Saftey, factory trained reps and how they "Really" feel about Jim. If you gain thier confidence they start using phrases like "Not in touch" and "a bit off".

Get them to think you're going to buy a tub. It's fun. Thier emails, phone numbers and adresses are found using google.

AS Jim encourages others to waste people's time. I'd like to take this oppurtunity to econrage everyone to waste Jim's time as well as wasting the time of people Jim works with.

What? You mean that if I go to a Hot Spring store and want to buy a Hot Spring at Costco, they won't let me try it at the store? I thought all these cool aid drinking dealers were fully supporting the Costco thing. They actually believe that putting an exact duplicate of a Hot Spring Classic model at Costco and selling it for $2000 less is a good thing for these dealers.

[paintnsunni]

just goes to show how much dealer proffit is in the tub as the Costco tub at $2000 less and still includes their 15% markup. funny thing as well, Costco doesent use any salesman........go figure

[East TX Spa]

I would let someone considering buying a Costco Highlife spa try it out at my store....ABSOLUTELY.

What some of you goomers do not seem to grasp is that if you TREAT PEOPLE WITH COURTESY AND RESPECT, IT WILL COME BACK TO YOU IN SPADES.

Big WHOOP-DEE-DOO if one or two people a year come into my store and want to borrow my mood room to try out a similiar spa they are considering purchasing on the internet. I'll do my damndest to try and sell a spa for Costco if that's what the customer wants. Hell, he might even decide that he likes one of the spas I have in the showroom BETTER. If he decides he wants the Costco spa, that's fine, we get paid to deliver him one. He'll come here to get chemicals, he'll think highly of me and probably recommend us to his friends.

I'm not worried about losing a sale here or there. If some of ya'll are scraping by fighting for every little crumb, maybe you ought to try a different approach towards the customers.

One of our new stores:

Terminator

[paintnsunni]

Great showroom and I like your attitude! I didn't buy my spa from a local dealer but He is great! I do buy all my maintenace items and goodies fro him and will have his service depaetment service my tub when the need arises.Their attitude is the same as yours. Great post!

[Trigger]

WOW. What a great place. Clean, bright, well organized, a refelction that the customer is treated right.

Jim, do you ike the store?

Jim, this is your store, right? A person in my office (A double PHD From MIT who also makes a lot of money) <- I know you place a lot of credibility in those things,- says your store looks depressing. I told him that "depressing" isn't the word I would use. Do you agree with me, or with the DOUBLE PHD FROM MIT who makes a lot of money?

YOur comepetion in the next town over has this store

What do think of his store front?

Jim do you have pictures of the inside of your store? I would love to see them.

The other thing I personally like is seeing where the tubs are made. Storefronts are nice and reflect on the buisness and employees very much, but manufactureing and testing facilites also are a reflection of the product too. Do others agree?

[Jim_The_Jim]

WOW. What a great place. Clean, bright, well organized, a refelction that the customer is treated right.

Jim, do you ike the store?

Jim, this is your store, right?

YOur comepetion in the next town over has this store

What do think of his store front?

Jim do you have pictures of the inside of your store? I would love to see them.

The other thing I personally like is seeing where the tubs are made. Storefronts are nice and reflect on the buisness and employees very much, but manufactureing and testing facilites also are a reflection of the product too. Do others agree?

Thanks for putting up the photo. Why didn't you come in and chat. I would have gladly let you take a soak in a real therapy machine. Most sales people start to cringe when I show them how much better our products are than theirs. You will see them start to stoop over with each feature and benefit. Then they make some excuse to leave. "UUUHHH. I aaa gotta go. My wife is expecting me." or some such thing.

Storefronts are very expensive. The average cost per month is about $20,000 rent, comon area expenses, taxes, utilities and insurance in Denver for a 6,000-9000 sq ft facility in a good “anchor” location. That give them a minimum expense of $60K per month for a "nut" to stay in business in one location. Ten years ago, mine was $40K per month with 5 employees and 5300 sq ft in a not so ideal location.

I used to spend about $80,000 per year in just small advertising (2 by 3 adds), in the Rocky Mountain News and phone books. And that was minimal advertising in my opinion.

That is the plight of storefronts. It gives you no economic resiliance and that is why so many hot tub stores are gone, somewhere around 300 out of business since 2001.

Now all we do is custom work for our customers all over the country and in the UK and we don't worry about overhead with the smallest store in the spa industry. This has allowed us to stay in business when others, who can't compete in price for this level of quality have come and gone.

Do you know that every spa store that started in Denver the same year as we did is no longer in business? Every spa store within this area around our store has gone, but we are still here, because we have a better economic position against the poor present market. We sell all over the country and in the UK as well as in Hawaii. It is simply a much more stable business plan that matches the modern economic structure today.

We debated if we even wanted any store front, because of the cost interfering with the quality of the spas and I did not want to work in the store, but wanted to work on the spas. However, the store pays for itself and the wages, in spa supply sales, covers and some spas from walk in traffic. It is a good location in an all new area. It is 1080 sq ft. The smallest space I could find.

Are you beginning to understand why we have the economic advantage to produce better spas for less money? The manufacture we use also has tremendous economic advantage over Watkins and over just about any of the spa factories I have seen.

Jacuzzi Sundance almost went under because of the present market. They were bought for a song by an investment company after continual losses month after month. That is a sign of the times. They are the number two spa company in the world.

The Chinese are sending me email every week offering me spas to sell.

Watkins is putting spas at Costco, because they need more sales to stay in business. That was the same thing that Caldera did before they died and were bought by Watkins. That is funny. This is a “weeding time” in the spa industry. The companies who have glut are suffering and are being sold.

With low quality products and high overhead, competing against your own products at Costco, you are not going to be in business much longer. Most spa stores are just a heart beat from bankruptcy right now.

I read the old Hot Spring sales manual. Do they still have the “store police” who come around and make you conform to their store layout, or you loose your dealership?

When you take away the fancy “settings” around the tubs, they look like cheap crap. It is in the sales manual that you dress up the spas in the store so that they are not being seen as they really are, but dressed in planters, wood and special lighting. That is what the store police do; make sure you follow the plan.

When you put one in the back yard they are ugly, and that cheap plastic cabinet is really the lowest quality I have ever seen. Aren’t you embarrassed to see what happened to Jon Watkns’ dream? Only a fool falls for that marketing crap these days.

Take a look at what quality looks like. This is the true showroom, sitting outside in God's sitting. We often show them this way. That redwood is really beautiful. We pay a premium to get it. REAL RED WOOD that will outlast any of the common plastic junk I see.

Here is some music, blues rock style to help you get through these tough times.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

[Jim_The_Jim]

Great showroom and I like your attitude! I didn't buy my spa from a local dealer but He is great! I do buy all my maintenace items and goodies fro him and will have his service depaetment service my tub when the need arises.Their attitude is the same as yours. Great post!

He sounds just like a polititian. No matter how bad it is, they are winning!

I have had to deal with this "giving spirit" from dealers that we deliver spas in their "territory" and it is not nice. If I were them, I would not like Haven Spas either.

However, our service department had done warranty work for most all of the brands that are now out of business in our area. Try getting a Hot Spring dealer to to warranty work on a Haven Spa. That is really funny.

[Trigger]

Jim,

I wish you answered my questions, rather than once again run off in another direction.

It's difficult to have a conversation with you.

On the picture of the tub you posted, is that one that is going to be sent back for refinishing? The finish looks like a reject. Arctic has some good finishes. You should take a look at theirs.

Also, it looks like a jet popped off there. I bet that happens a lot, huh? Maybe one of the hotsprings guys could give you some pointers and show you how to attatch a jet so that doesn't happen.

I hear you on how exspensive it is to run a quality operation. Not everyone can do it. You know what they say, the best rise to the top. I understand why you don't have a decent showroom. So don't get me wrong.... I am not faulting you for having a creepy run down place. I think it's kind of nice that you are not embarrassed by it. But consdiering what you sell, it's actually says a lot that you even have that. Don't let anyone tell you it's a run down junk store! Jim you be proud of that place, ok?

But yea, it takes investments, quality prodcuts, showrooms, engineers, quality control all to have a world class operation. But you have a nice little place thier. Do you sell a lot of duckies?

Hey! I found some pics of factories.

HEre is where my tub was made

As many know, this is where Jim gets his tubs to rebrand:

Anyone got pictures of the Thermal Spa facotry? or Arctic? I'd like to see Arctics.

[paintnsunni]

A politician? it is a nice store and my local dealer does seem nice why is that being a politician? just sayeing what I saw in the post is all. I do agree with you post so I assume that makes me a politition:)

[flibotte]

It doesn’t, it’s just a way for Jim to segue into another anecdotal story about how great his spas are.

[paintnsunni]

It doesn’t, it’s just a way for Jim to segue into another anecdotal story about how great his spas are.

We all come here for fun and games I suppose......Just some do it differently.

[Tom]

Anyone got pictures of the Thermal SPa facotry? or ARctic? I'd like to see Arctics.

Photos of two of our three factories are shown on our website. In the left "Life" menu, click "About Us" and then "Company Profile". The photos show part of the yard at each plant; if the photographer had stepped a few dozen meters closer in each case, to focus only on the office part, I'll bet ours would look every bit as pretty as the Watkins shot.

You showed the front of Watkins and back of Haven Spas, which I think is a little unfair; I assure you that the back end of our lot isn't nearly as pretty as the front! Especially after the forklifts have chewed through 4" of wet snow this morning.

[Jim_The_Jim]

A politician? it is a nice store and my local dealer does seem nice why is that being a politician? just sayeing what I saw in the post is all. I do agree with you post so I assume that makes me a politition:)

It looks like every Hot Spring hot tub store I have seen. They have to all look alike or they lose their dealership, and they are not allowed to sell any other spas, so that when Hot Spring goes down, they go down.

I have been telling these guys, out of compassion, for years to get a better brand of hot tub. If they don't listen to me soon, by Feb it will be too late for them. They will lose everything.

[Trigger]

You showed the front of Watkins and back of Haven Spas, which I think is a little unfair; I assure you that the back end of our lot isn't nearly as pretty as the front! Especially after the forklifts have chewed through 4" of wet snow this morning.

Opps. I didn't mean to show just the backof where Jim get's his tubs. But it's a good shot, because it shows some nice spas outside. Hey. if you bought one of Jim's spas, it could have been in that picture! Pretty cool huh?

Anyhow, to be fair here is the front and the side of the factory where Jim the Jim buys his tubs that he takes back to the barn to be rebranded and void of any saftey listing:

Yup. Worht a thousand words as they say.

I liked the photos of the Coleman and Artic factories that are on the ARTIC website. Thanks for the pointers.

The Artic Spa photos should have some snow in them. If you're going to promote a cold weather spa, I 'd think the worst thing you could do is have a factory that looks like it's out in the desert.

Anyone else got photo's of stores and/or factories?

[Trigger]

It looks like every Hot Spring hot tub store I have seen. They have to all look alike or they lose their dealership, and they are not allowed to sell any other spas, so that when Hot Spring goes down, they go down.

I have been telling these guys, out of compassion, for years to get a better brand of hot tub. If they don't listen to me soon, by Feb it will be too late for them. They will lose everything.

Well that's just not true.

How can you take a look at Termintors store and says it looks like the other Hot spring stores? The pictures speak for themselves. It's sounds like you are a bit jealous? As I said in my earlier post Jim, you shouldn't be embarrassed about your little store. I like how you have the windows stuffed with toys and things. How much is the garden goose you have?

Hot spring dealer carries more than watkins products. So you are wrong. Are youy trying to mislead folks, or are you ignorant of the industry? You should correct your statement that you made, because It's not true, and I know how much you hate being wrong.

Ok?

[East TX Spa]

It looks like every Hot Spring hot tub store I have seen. They have to all look alike or they lose their dealership, and they are not allowed to sell any other spas, so that when Hot Spring goes down, they go down.

Not true, there are several HotSpring dealers around the world that also carry lesser brands as an alternative. There is also no corporate mandate regarding showroom style. My store does not fit the corporate image...and I do just fine.

Terminator