Your Opinions Of Vita Spas

[wesj53]

My wife and I are looking for a 6-7 person spa with lots of jets. We have narrowed our choice to the Artesian Piper Glen, the Arctic Tundra, the Barefoot 88MR, and the Vita Rendevous. I have researched the former 3 companies quite thoroughly and feel comfortable they are all quality mfgs. But I do not know much about or heard many things either positive or negative about the latter. Can someone help with some objective information on Vita? Thank you much.

[mepat]

We had a Vita spa (Voyager portable) for several years and at that time it served it's purpose.

If you want a really great spa - go with the Elite Platinum II spa at Costco.

[Hot H2o]

We had a Vita spa (Voyager portable) for several years and at that time it served it's purpose.

If you want a really great spa - go with the Elite Platinum II spa at Costco.

Anybody in the spa business would laugh if they head someone recommend a spa from Costo. I love Costco but the spas are low end and a reputable dealer would never, never sell them.

[tumbleweed]

Anybody in the spa business would laugh if they head someone recommend a spa from Costo. I love Costco but the spas are low end and a reputable dealer would never, never sell them.

I love Costco spas, as a repairman, they make me lots of money.

[Roger]

I love Costco spas, as a repairman, they make me lots of money.

The hard part is getting costco to give one of your business cards to every purchaser. I'm married to a few Home Depot tubs.

I have never seen a Vitas guts, so I can't give an opinion. They are resonably respected on the forums.

[wesj53]

We had a Vita spa (Voyager portable) for several years and at that time it served it's purpose.

If you want a really great spa - go with the Elite Platinum II spa at Costco.

I appreciate the time you spent to respond to me, but I agree with the other contributors in that my understanding of any spa sold at a retailer like Costco is low end. I don't think I would EVER buy one from them, even though we are members. Do you work at Costco and why did you get rid of your Vita?

[iveywk]

I'll preface this statement by saying I am a Vita dealer, and from our end, in terms of dealing directly with DM (the company who makes them) they offer excellent support to their dealers. I think the Rendezvous will compare vary well with any high-end spa that you are going to look at. I will go back to what I always say about buying a spa. Check the dealers of the three spas your looking at. How long have they been in business, how long have they carried their respective brand of spa. Check the BBB and make sure they take care of their customers. Any spa no matter what spa your buy or how well its maid; will break down, and will need to be fixed. You need to buy your tub from a reputable dealer. That is the most important thing.

[wesj53]

I'll preface this statement by saying I am a Vita dealer, and from our end, in terms of dealing directly with DM (the company who makes them) they offer excellent support to their dealers. I think the Rendezvous will compare vary well with any high-end spa that you are going to look at. I will go back to what I always say about buying a spa. Check the dealers of the three spas your looking at. How long have they been in business, how long have they carried their respective brand of spa. Check the BBB and make sure they take care of their customers. Any spa no matter what spa your buy or how well its maid; will break down, and will need to be fixed. You need to buy your tub from a reputable dealer. That is the most important thing.

Thanks for that honesty and your opinion iveywk. It appears to be a well made line and we like the design and features of the Rendezvous. I have checked out DM on the BBB site and they have a satisfactory rating with minimal complaints (those listed were resolved quickly). How long has DM been in business and how many units do you think they mfg per year? A lot of the dealers on this site suggest to stay with the top 10 companies so that they're around for the long haul. I understand this but I am also open to the thought that a newcomer can build a fine product as well. I like the fact that Vita has a high volume circ pump (15-22gpm) and wraps their acrylic shell in fiberglass. I was also impressed that the heater has a lifetime warranty! I also note that the unit has an air pump which is unusual with fully foamed units. I understand that in the wintertime using this blower cools the water down considerably which then forces the heater on. Is this true with Vita or do they use interior warmer air to draw from? Finally, what do you think would be a good price on this unit. It's loaded so I'm not expecting anything less than $10k. Am I correct?

[John Karna]

Any spa no matter what spa your buy or how well its maid; will break down, and will need to be fixed

Some just sooner and more often than others.

[Altazi]

Hello wesj53,

I have enjoyed reading your questions & postings. I also am still shopping for a spa. Your question regarding the blower air got me thinking. Here are some of my thoughts, based on the assumption that the exterior air temperature is substantially colder than the spa water temperature:

* If the blower air comes in from outside the tub, it will cool the water. The thermostat will detect the cool water and turn the heater on, to keep the water at the appropriate temperature.

* If the blower air comes from inside the tub surround (e.g., thermopane), the initial blown air will be relatively warm. This quantity of warm air will be exhausted in short order, and will be replaced with colder air coming in from outside the cabinet. Subsequently, the air injected into the tub will be cooler, also cooling the water and forcing the heater to turn on. The cool air entering the TP case will reduce (or eliminate) the effectiveness of the waste heat from the motors helping to heat the water. I also wonder about the volume of air - the blower pumps out quite a bit ot air, eh? The TP spa enclosure cannot be air-tight, if the blower air is to be able to enter from the outside. Just how sealed IS the TP spa enclosure?

* The only way for an air blower to NOT reduce the water temperature is to inject continuously heated air. This would require a separate air heater, of which I have never heard in this type of application.

Kindly note that these are just points for discussion, and I may be off-base. As always, I welcome those more experienced in correcting any misconceptions I might have.

Regards,

Altazi

[wesj53]

Hello wesj53,

I have enjoyed reading your questions & postings. I also am still shopping for a spa. Your question regarding the blower air got me thinking. Here are some of my thoughts, based on the assumption that the exterior air temperature is substantially colder than the spa water temperature:

* If the blower air comes in from outside the tub, it will cool the water. The thermostat will detect the cool water and turn the heater on, to keep the water at the appropriate temperature.

* If the blower air comes from inside the tub surround (e.g., thermopane), the initial blown air will be relatively warm. This quantity of warm air will be exhausted in short order, and will be replaced with colder air coming in from outside the cabinet. Subsequently, the air injected into the tub will be cooler, also cooling the water and forcing the heater to turn on. The cool air entering the TP case will reduce (or eliminate) the effectiveness of the waste heat from the motors helping to heat the water. I also wonder about the volume of air - the blower pumps out quite a bit ot air, eh? The TP spa enclosure cannot be air-tight, if the blower air is to be able to enter from the outside. Just how sealed IS the TP spa enclosure?

* The only way for an air blower to NOT reduce the water temperature is to inject continuously heated air. This would require a separate air heater, of which I have never heard in this type of application.

Kindly note that these are just points for discussion, and I may be off-base. As always, I welcome those more experienced in correcting any misconceptions I might have.

Regards,

Altazi

Ah Altazi my friend, good to hear from you. I think we non-dealers are a minority on this site, but as you do, I welcome their objective comments. We are here to learn and make a wise choice before investing thousands. I could not agree with you more as you continued my line of thought further in your post than did I. TP units cannot be air tight so I agree with your assumption that the warm inside air would be soon exhausted and outside cooler (or cold depending on season) would have to be used; thereby cooling the water and forcing the heater on. So my thought would be to only use the blower in cool or warm environments; and only use it for very short periods in cold weather if "bubbles" were absolutely necessary. Personally, I would probably not use the feature in the winter so to avoid the extra heater use. But the "bubbles" are nice; I've only experienced it with the Sundance, one of the few FF brands that offer it. Re: the argument of FF vs. TP, I am still - after exhaustive research - unsure which route I will go. I see plusses and minuses with each system so my decision will probably be reduced to the things the industry people have suggested: reliable company and dealer; comfortability; and features offered vs desired. I am not pushing it, but have you seen the Artesian Platinum series? We are very pleased with the Piper Glen as it is a very unique product having individual controls utilizing separate pumps (each 3hp). You can customize each seat without getting up and I don't believe the power usage will be greatly different than 3 pump models since the HP is less and you only operate a pump where you need it. There is only 1 divertor if I remember correctly, and that is to adjust between the cool down seat and the center footwell/volcano. Artesian isn't the biggest company around but BBB rates them satisfactory with NO complaints registered against them in the last 3 years. The dealer here in metro Chicago is American Sales, a fairly large retailer of pools, spas, patio equipment, etc and they have represented Artesian for years. So I feel good about them, but will be wet testing Arctic and Vita on Sunday for comparison. After a month of tests and research, I would like to get back to sell more insurance so I can pay for the darn thing! Best regards and let me know any further thoughts. Let's hear from more industry people as well about any of the above.

[Altazi]

Hello wesj53,

Some background: I have a degree in physics, and have been making a living as an electronic design engineer. I admit to not being familiar with spas to the depth (pun intended) of the spa professionals, but I do run all information through my own internal "BS" filters. Unfortunately, sometimes these filters get clogged while visiting this website! Joking aside, I have found some valuable information provided by some very helpful members, which I appreciate a great deal.

I like the concept of the thermopane spas better than the foam-filled spas, because I like the idea of having access to all of the plumbing, and allowing the "waste" heat from the motors to transfer to the water in the tub. I have visited an Artic Spa dealer, and got down on my hands and knees inspecting the spa construction in detail. At this point, I am inclined to give Artic the top slot on my short list of spas, but I will visit other local spa dealers to check out the Hot Spring, Marquis, Caldera, Dimension One, Sundance, and possibly some others. I have come to the conclusion that solid, local dealer support, a good warranty, and a positive "wet test" may outweigh some of the engineering factors. like TP vs. FF.

I am still formulating a list of questions, because I do not want any "surprises" down the road. One key factor for me is that my spa will be installed at my vacation home in Central Oregon, where the snow can accumulate to three feet deep, and the temperature can drop below 0F. Worse, the power has been known to go out for several hours at a time. I must also consider what would happen if the GFCI breaker trips, and the spa goes without power for days (!!!), and I need to know which spa will perform best under these harsh conditions. I am considering installing some kind of remote Internet monitoring hardware, so I can check the power status, water temperature, etc., of the spa from my main home 180 miles away. I'd like to find a product that does this, but if I have to, I can roll it myself. I generally find it cheaper to buy something rather than building it myself. I would certainly be interested in buying such a product.

I am interested in your spa search - be sure to keep us all informed as to your progress, and let us know your decision!

Regards,

Altazi

[Jim_The_Jim]

Hello wesj53,

Some background: I have a degree in physics, and have been making a living as an electronic design engineer. I admit to not being familiar with spas to the depth (pun intended) of the spa professionals, but I do run all information through my own internal "BS" filters. Unfortunately, sometimes these filters get clogged while visiting this website! Joking aside, I have found some valuable information provided by some very helpful members, which I appreciate a great deal.

I like the concept of the thermopane spas better than the foam-filled spas, because I like the idea of having access to all of the plumbing, and allowing the "waste" heat from the motors to transfer to the water in the tub. I have visited an Artic Spa dealer, and got down on my hands and knees inspecting the spa construction in detail. At this point, I am inclined to give Artic the top slot on my short list of spas, but I will visit other local spa dealers to check out the Hot Spring, Marquis, Caldera, Dimension One, Sundance, and possibly some others. I have come to the conclusion that solid, local dealer support, a good warranty, and a positive "wet test" may outweigh some of the engineering factors. like TP vs. FF.

I am still formulating a list of questions, because I do not want any "surprises" down the road. One key factor for me is that my spa will be installed at my vacation home in Central Oregon, where the snow can accumulate to three feet deep, and the temperature can drop below 0F. Worse, the power has been known to go out for several hours at a time. I must also consider what would happen if the GFCI breaker trips, and the spa goes without power for days (!!!), and I need to know which spa will perform best under these harsh conditions. I am considering installing some kind of remote Internet monitoring hardware, so I can check the power status, water temperature, etc., of the spa from my main home 180 miles away. I'd like to find a product that does this, but if I have to, I can roll it myself. I generally find it cheaper to buy something rather than building it myself. I would certainly be interested in buying such a product.

I am interested in your spa search - be sure to keep us all informed as to your progress, and let us know your decision!

Regards,

Altazi

I am telling both of you that you need to look at the entire product you are buying.

The Vita Spas are much better than Hot Spring, and Sundance in my opinion. However, if you have any cold weather at all, you do not want a full foam product of any type. They also are ANSI conforming in the suctions for safety.

The thermally sealed is far superior and it costs about 340% more to do it correctly. It is labor intensive.

Pumps need to be monitored for heat in any spa. If you put a motor in a box and run it a couple of cycles without cooling it, it ruins the motors. This is typical of all other manufacturers, except for Marquis, who uses very large motors and small impellers to stop the heat prolems they used to have.

If you bypass the dealers, and go directly to the spa builder, and that builder has taken all the advertising costs out of the product and makes it for the internet, nobody can compete with him.

You may not like my style, but when you realize just how bad these other companies are, then you will understand. Just about every sales person on this site has extreme difficulty with me. That is because I talkd about things like "Value" and the mechanics of all this.

We have no competition and we are selling spas in other countries and have reps in different states, who simply want to work for an ethical company. That is the truth.

[tumbleweed]

I am telling both of you that you need to look at the entire product you are buying.

The Vita Spas are much better than Hot Spring, and Sundance in my opinion. However, if you have any cold weather at all, you do not want a full foam product of any type. They also are ANSI conforming in the suctions for safety.

The thermally sealed is far superior and it costs about 340% more to do it correctly. It is labor intensive.

Pumps need to be monitored for heat in any spa. If you put a motor in a box and run it a couple of cycles without cooling it, it ruins the motors. This is typical of all other manufacturers, except for Marquis, who uses very large motors and small impellers to stop the heat prolems they used to have.

If you bypass the dealers, and go directly to the spa builder, and that builder has taken all the advertising costs out of the product and makes it for the internet, nobody can compete with him.

You may not like my style, but when you realize just how bad these other companies are, then you will understand. Just about every sales person on this site has extreme difficulty with me. That is because I talkd about things like "Value" and the mechanics of all this.

We have no competition and we are selling spas in other countries and have reps in different states, who simply want to work for an ethical company. That is the truth.

http://www.selberg.org/~speed/erik_journal.html

http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...sage-boards.htm

http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...ory/factory.htm

http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/general.htm

http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/as.htm

http://www.poolandspa.com:8080/upload/spa%20specialist.jpg

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

[Jim_The_Jim]

http://xxx.selberg.org/~speed/erik_journal.html

http://xxx.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...sage-boards.htm

http://xxx.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/fi...ory/factory.htm

http://xxx.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/general.htm

http://xxx.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/as.htm

http://xxx.poolandspaxxx:8080/upload/spa%20specialist.jpg

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

tumbleweed you do know that all that stuff is a bunch of boring garbage, put together by pissed off sales people. It has helped to sell more spas than anything I have yet to pay for advertising, except for our customers support, which is truely amazing and the reason why our company is sucessful when 50 spa brands have disappeared in the last five years.

[tumbleweed]

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

[flibotte]

My thoughts on the air blower. (I am not a dealer). I have a tub in a cold climate and I use my blower fairly often and I personally dont think it makes that much of a difference. yes the air that it takes in is cool\cold air but as far as it using the heater more when it is on I don't know that that is valid. Reguardless of how you tub is insulated when you are using the blower the cover will be off and will be exposed to cold air. I would imagine that the heat loss from a few blower nozzles is nothing compared to a 8X8 hole from a missing cover. Especially when it is windy and cold.

[tumbleweed]

My thoughts on the air blower. (I am not a dealer). I have a tub in a cold climate and I use my blower fairly often and I personally dont think it makes that much of a difference. yes the air that it takes in is cool\cold air but as far as it using the heater more when it is on I don't know that that is valid. Reguardless of how you tub is insulated when you are using the blower the cover will be off and will be exposed to cold air. I would imagine that the heat loss from a few blower nozzles is nothing compared to a 8X8 hole from a missing cover. Especially when it is windy and cold.

No dealer here, just a tech. I find that cool or cold air injected into hot water will cause heat loss more rapidly than just just removing the cover. That said, a spa is as personal as a car. Some users are as loyal to their brand as the dealers. I do not have a blower on my spa and am very happy with it, You are happy with your blower. Just my opinion.

[Dr. Spa]

All that air being blown, or inject, into the water has to be heated. No, better to say, if the air is cooler than anything around it, it will absorb the heat. It takes energy to heat the air. Regardless of where this energy come from, it's coming from the spa. It will very quickly, within 1 to 2 minutes evacuate any "warm air" between the spa shell and cabinet. energy = electricity = $. Many years ago a manufacturer did try a heated air blower.

1. it used so much power you couldn't operate the water pump at the same time.

2. it took so much power to heat so little air, when you switch from regular air to heated air, the power of the blower reduced to about 1/3 - 1/5 of normal power.

Additionally, as the air bubbles break the surface of the water you get extreme evaporative cooling.

Regardless, many people like the feeling and effect given by an air blower.

My thoughts on the air blower. (I am not a dealer). I have a tub in a cold climate and I use my blower fairly often and I personally dont think it makes that much of a difference. yes the air that it takes in is cool\cold air but as far as it using the heater more when it is on I don't know that that is valid. Reguardless of how you tub is insulated when you are using the blower the cover will be off and will be exposed to cold air. I would imagine that the heat loss from a few blower nozzles is nothing compared to a 8X8 hole from a missing cover. Especially when it is windy and cold.

[Altazi]

Now this is the kind of good information for which I joined this forum. Thank you, kind people!

I think I lean towards having a blower, cooled water and all. . . I like bubbles.

[Roger]

Now this is the kind of good information for which I joined this forum. Thank you, kind people!

I think I lean towards having a blower, cooled water and all. . . I like bubbles.

I love my air blower......but it comes at a noisy cost. I find myself turning it on for a real good bubble beating in my deep seat for just a couple minutes, then off for a quiet soak.

[flibotte]

I think it's a nice option to have. I agree with Roger, it is rather noisy to run and I do the same thing, run my jets and blower for a little while and then perfer to just soak in the tub with everything off. Also, if you have kids they seem to love all the bubbles the blower creates.

[Jim_The_Jim]

All that air being blown, or inject, into the water has to be heated. No, better to say, if the air is cooler than anything around it, it will absorb the heat. It takes energy to heat the air. Regardless of where this energy come from, it's coming from the spa. It will very quickly, within 1 to 2 minutes evacuate any "warm air" between the spa shell and cabinet. energy = electricity = $. Many years ago a manufacturer did try a heated air blower.

1. it used so much power you couldn't operate the water pump at the same time.

2. it took so much power to heat so little air, when you switch from regular air to heated air, the power of the blower reduced to about 1/3 - 1/5 of normal power.

Additionally, as the air bubbles break the surface of the water you get extreme evaporative cooling.

Regardless, many people like the feeling and effect given by an air blower.

This again is where Dr. Spa, is repeating information from 20 years ago, when all we had was 1 hp pumps. and the materials used for the motor windings was not capable of high heat. Most of those pumps were .75

power factor to keep the windings cool.

We now have modern spa pumps in the 2,3,4,5, and 6.7 HP with up to .98 power factor. The conversion from watts to horsepower is 98%.

The windings in these extreme motors are capable of 311 degrees F constant running. I convert everything to F. because I am older.

In empirical testing in an average spa with two 4 HP pumps, the air entering the blower is 60 to 70 degrees warmer than the ambient. At 68 degrees ambient the air entering the blower is 128 degrees F and stays that way as long as the twin 4 HP pumps run. The heat around the entry point ambient around the motors was betwen 90 and 110 degrees, to keep the motors running in the manufacturer's specifications.

If you are a physics major, then you probably know that energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transfered to another form or transfer to another mass. And when you compress air it gets even hotter.

The air entering the water under pressure measuered over 150Degrees F. As it decompresses, it transfers heat into the spa water. With normal air from the water jets there are thousands of bubbles while any spa is running, adding 120+ degree warm air is not going to change things. Also in our spas all of the air entering the spa is pre heated in the cabinet, including the venturi air from the air valves.

If you have thousands of watts of heat coming from the motors and you capture and control that heat, you basically do not get cold air ever entering the water, unless the temp is below 0 d F. Then you run the blower until you feel any cold at all. Wait a while then turn it back on.

The use of Turbo Air in our spas makes the water jets have a tremendous boost of power. It broadens the spray and intensifies it. It is wonderful.

Here a comment by a lady in which we retro fit the Turbo Air.

Subject of the email "Turbo Air WoW We"

"Jim.

I am so happy that I listen to you about installing the turbo. Power on just the jets along seem to be more powerful and yes what great therapy with it now. Thank you again. "

The use of turbo air is a great way to increase the power of the jets without taxing the plumbing pipes. If you increase water pressure beyond the jet manufacturer's recommendations, you shorten the life of the jets. Adding a much lighter mass to do the work and widen the spray is just the best way to get extreme threapy.

This is part of the reason why we have never lost a wet test, against any spa company.

[spa Dr.]

This again is where Dr. Spa, is repeating information from 20 years ago, when all we had was 1 hp pumps. and the materials used for the motor windings was not capable of high heat. Most of those pumps were .75

power factor to keep the windings cool.

We now have modern spa pumps in the 2,3,4,5, and 6.7 HP with up to .98 power factor. The conversion from watts to horsepower is 98%.

The windings in these extreme motors are capable of 311 degrees F constant running. I convert everything to F. because I am older.

In empirical testing in an average spa with two 4 HP pumps, the air entering the blower is 60 to 70 degrees warmer than the ambient. At 68 degrees ambient the air entering the blower is 128 degrees F and stays that way as long as the twin 4 HP pumps run. The heat around the entry point ambient around the motors was betwen 90 and 110 degrees, to keep the motors running in the manufacturer's specifications.

If you are a physics major, then you probably know that energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transfered to another form or transfer to another mass. And when you compress air it gets even hotter.

The air entering the water under pressure measuered over 150Degrees F. As it decompresses, it transfers heat into the spa water. With normal air from the water jets there are thousands of bubbles while any spa is running, adding 120+ degree warm air is not going to change things. Also in our spas all of the air entering the spa is pre heated in the cabinet, including the venturi air from the air valves.

If you have thousands of watts of heat coming from the motors and you capture and control that heat, you basically do not get cold air ever entering the water, unless the temp is below 0 d F. Then you run the blower until you feel any cold at all. Wait a while then turn it back on.

The use of Turbo Air in our spas makes the water jets have a tremendous boost of power. It broadens the spray and intensifies it. It is wonderful.

Here a comment by a lady in which we retro fit the Turbo Air.

Subject of the email "Turbo Air WoW We"

"Jim.

I am so happy that I listen to you about installing the turbo. Power on just the jets along seem to be more powerful and yes what great therapy with it now. Thank you again. "

The use of turbo air is a great way to increase the power of the jets without taxing the plumbing pipes. If you increase water pressure beyond the jet manufacturer's recommendations, you shorten the life of the jets. Adding a much lighter mass to do the work and widen the spray is just the best way to get extreme threapy.

This is part of the reason why we have never lost a wet test, against any spa company.

SHUT UP

[spa Dr.]

Actually, when I said we never lost a wet test to another company I really ment is I have no idea what I am talking about, but it sounded like a really cool way to end a post. I mean, for a second there, didn't it almost sound good? Unfortuanley I've pissed off so many people just by being in the same room as them, I've lost countless wet test.

I'm sorry for trying to give you the impression that my tubs are better than they are. It was very decepitve of me.

Thank you jim, your honesty is refreshing.