iveywk

Mixing brands is fine. Hayward makes good stuff, I happen to run a Pentair shop and its also fine. The decision your struggling with is like choosing a Ford or a Chevy. Both companies understand what your looking for, and make quality stuff.

The one thing that people need to keep in mind with their pool and if they have algae / clarity issues and they are using chlorine and if they have issues they just aren't using enough. On a 25000 gallon pool on the right weeks in June or July (more likely June because in Iowa we get way more rain in that month) it is possible to consume 20 - 30 LBS of CL2 in a given week just to keep the CL2 at the right levels. I have seen my parents pool use that much CL2 and he has it tested everyday. Think of chemicals in your pool kinda like gas in your car. It doesn't matter what you have used. Think of your pool as a car with clarity as a destination, and chlorine as gas to run the car, if your pool is cloudy it is going to take what it takes to get the pool clear. It doesn't matter if it takes 100 gallons to get to where you want to go, you still want to get there. It takes what it takes.

Rainbow Pools in Kenner, La. In the past 2 months, I've called at least 5 different pool co's. 3 fiberglass and 2 gunite. The first fiberglass pool guy was nice and informative and I asked him to call me when he could come out in the next week. Never heard back(until today!). That was 2 mo's ago. The next 'glass guy was in Picayune. He had a sale going on and I contacted him to meet with me on Monday, the last day of the sale. Never heard back from him either. I tried a national chain gunite company in Metairie, but I get a little nervous when salesmen keep telling me how great they are and nobody can beat their price and can't do it faster. The last place I tried was Rainbow. They actually built a gunite pool for a neighbor and it looks awsome. So I made the appointment with the guy, after hours and he actually showed up with photos, insurance, licenses, BBB certificates...really on his game. I picked a pool and he came back on that Saturday on his time. I signed with him Friday night and he starts this Wednesday. I really feel comfortable using Rainbow and absolutely no pressure. Really easy to deal with, very laid back. They've been in business since '87, but have been building pools since '61. It's a Father/Son operation with crews. His son (part owner) does the excavation, rebar and gunite work himself with a crew assisting. Another crew does the finish work while he supervises. He assured me that he would be here everyday that his crews are working. After much debating, I really feel comfortable with Rainbow. http://www.rainbowpoolandspas.com/page2.html I think you made the correct decision. In my market we keep our crew busy and make no bones about how we have no interest in doing the cheapest, fastest pool. Why would you want that? Just FWI I'm going to buy my dads company with my brother. We have been in business for 40 years. Hopefully if we can do as well as our father it will be another 40. If someone has been around since '82 and they are still involved with their product then they will do a good job. Enjoy your pool!

I don't really care what "components" are used as long as they work. I currently carry two brands of spas at my store, one is fantastic and the only problems I have are due to shipping issues and they might leak out of the box. That is about at a 1 to 50 ratio of issues out of the box and not. The other is considerably less reliable and is more like 1 to 5 or 1 to 6. The more and more this stays the same the closer I get to firing the second company, but we have a 20 year history and it is difficult. The fact is what we sell is what we sell and we're going to fix what ever may go wrong on the spa, but the reality is that I don't want to be in the business of fixing spas. Its a pain in the ass. Its a necessary evil but I need a pissed off customer calling me like a need a hole in my head. To answer your question, if I get positive feedback from someone I trust in this industry (and it is actually very small and word gets around) then I'll run with it. If someone tells me to stay away then I'll follow their advise.

A liner is going to float whenever the water table is higher then the pool and there isn't a hydrostatic valve on the drain. At my store we hear about it maybe a couple of times a year.

Your spa definitely froze. The humming you heard was the pump trying to run but not being able to because of the ice that was inside of it. Anyway your spa isn't ruined and can be repaired, it might be expensive, but not nearly as much as a new spa.

Bah I accidentally deleted the whole thing instead of my edit.

The first thing I would do is see if your filter is plugged. Like the above poster said, pull the filter and see if the tub starts to heat. I'm pretty sure just about every spa has some type of pressure switch, or flow switch, so if your filter is plugged, its not getting enough water going through the heater, and it won't turn on. Its a safety measure so you won't burn up the heater. If the heating element is shot then (on the spas that I sell at least) when the spa calls for heat it tries to turn on the heater and trips the breaker. So what your describing sounds like either a plugged up filter, or a bad pressure/flow switch.

I'll preface by saying I'm a dealer in Iowa, so the climate would be similar, either type of pool is going to last you for a long time provided that it is taken care of properly. I would think the primary difference between the two types of pools would be the cost. A concrete pool in my market will be 15K more then a steel walled pool for the same size (16 x 32.) Either type of pool will have maintenance costs down the road. A vinyl liner will need to be replaced every ten years (roughly a good range would be say 7-13 depending on water chemistry.) A concrete pool will need to be repainted or re-plastered every few years, that’s a pain in the ass, and that isn't cheep. A concrete pool tends to be less forgiving due to water chemistry. Good water chemistry is important in either pool, but a concrete pool can etch or scale depending on where your going to keep your PH. Either way is a good way to go, just make sure to pick a good builder, each type of pool will last provided they are built correctly. Good luck with your purchase.

I do have a question for those who have bought covers online. Have you had any troubles with shipping damage to the cover? We used to try to get covers in for people shipped common carrier, and its not worth it, about 65% of them would come in damaged. Now we bring in covers with our spas. I think online would be a great place to get them, but I would be leery of shipping damage.

I'll preface this statement by saying I am a Vita dealer, and from our end, in terms of dealing directly with DM (the company who makes them) they offer excellent support to their dealers. I think the Rendezvous will compare vary well with any high-end spa that you are going to look at. I will go back to what I always say about buying a spa. Check the dealers of the three spas your looking at. How long have they been in business, how long have they carried their respective brand of spa. Check the BBB and make sure they take care of their customers. Any spa no matter what spa your buy or how well its maid; will break down, and will need to be fixed. You need to buy your tub from a reputable dealer. That is the most important thing.

Why do dealers/owners of their spa try to sell them here? Listen to Amanda, she has hit it right on the head, each situation is different. I don't tell my friends that live out of town to buy the brand of spa that I sell. Go shop, find some tubs you like, and wet test them. Make sure the dealer has been around for awhile and they dont change the brand of spa every year. Comfort is the key word.

Of the three tubs you have listed I would say I would probably buy the Sundance or the Hotsprings before the Islander. I think it really all comes down to how you think your dealer will take care of you if you have any issues, but both Hotsprings and Sundance are major players and have a better track record then Islander (ask the Islander dealer how long Islander has been in business.) As a side bar (I'll preface this by saying I work in the pool and spa industry and I'm not a Hotsprings or Sundance dealer) how can anyone say that Hotsprings is better then Sundance or Vice versa? I'm sure the Hotsprings guy will say they are the best selling tub in the world; they are for a single brand. A Sundance dealer would say the manufacturer that makes their spas is the biggest in the world, that is also right (Jacuzzi) Find the dealer that you think will take care of you the best. Look at how long they have carried the spa, check the BBB, and ask for references. Don’t believe ANYONE here saying that the spa that they have/sell is the "best." Hope this helps. EDIT: I mentioned this in another post, and thought I mentioned it here. WET TEST!!! Or at least find the spa that you sit well in dry and that will fit your needs.

as2240 What exactly are you looking for? A unbiased report on the spa your looking for? Or are you just practicing how you can copy and past quotes over and over again? To answer the OP Artesian makes a very good product but that is only as good as the dealer. If you have found the spa that you like the most make sure the dealer will stand behind their product. Like the previous poster said, wet test, just because the spa didn’t fit them doesn’t mean it wont fit you, so wet test. Spa shopping is a confusing process, I get tired of reading posts of people here pitching their own spa when people ask for advice, and that goes for people who have maid their decision on a spa purchase and they attempt to justifiy it or for dealers trying to sell their own product. If you like the Artesian and you think the dealer will be in business and will continue to service and sell the spa during the time period your going to be dealing with them then by all means buy it. If you notice they have switched brands repeatedly and they have service issues, then find something else. Hope this helps.

Waterbear pretty much hit the nail on the head. Just for clarification sake I'd like the add this; the only time you would probably ever notice the difference between water that is filtered from a DE system, cartridge, or sand would be at night, with a light on in the pool. A DE filter will pick out smaller stuff, and will eliminate the partials that can cast shadows while the pool is lighted. Will this make the water any better? I suppose but I personally don't think its worth the hassle. I work in the pool business, while I'm not at a home where I'm going to be for a long time so I don't have a pool as of yet, when I do have one I'll probably use a sand filter. If I use a cartridge system I'll use a cartridge that is large enough that I'll only have to clean it once a season. As for floor returns, the only benefit I could see for using them would be that they might stir any dirt that collects on the bottom for the pool into solution to cut down on vacuuming. Just like a pressure side cleaner works. I could see how it could help heat circulate throughout the pool, but I'm sure every quote you've had includes a main drain, and that is exactly the same function the main drain has.

To get an award from "Consumers Digest" it cost about 35,000.00 per tub. They play off of the name to trick people into thinking its an non biased opnion. Its not. I've had conversations with my spa rep about it, as they were trying to decide if it was worth the cost, we both agreed it was not. It seems like a underhanded way to build value into a tub.

When looking at equipment that is going to be used on a pool keep this in mind. The difference between Pentair, Hayward, Jandy would be very similar to the differences between Ford, Dodge, and Chevy. The fact that one of the dealers your looking at seems to use Jandy products when they can makes sense, I’m sure they have a price break, or a incentive plan or something along those lines. I would not make a decision on a dealer based on the fact that they use x brand of equipment. Hope this helps.

put more greedence on confort of the tub on your back side first then the manufacturer then the dealer. I agree with that to some extent, especially the part about picking a spa that is comfortable but I think that would go along with picking a few spas out that you liked. I personally think that the manufacturer isnt all that important. If your going to spend 8k then for the most part your going to be in a high end (5 years parts and labor warranty) as long as the company is on solid ground then your going to be fine. Thats where the dealer, and how long they have carried the brand, comes into play. We can agree to disagree on farming out service, I like the idea of telling my customers that my service guy is planning on making a stop at their house today, and that they call the same place for service as they do for chemicals and everything else. To each their own on that. My point is that everyone in this industry steals ideas from each other. There isn't a really big difference from brand to another. Circ pumps or not, 5 filters or 2, insulation types (although there are some key differences there I think but I digress) take Sundance, Jacuzzi, Vita (700 series), and Hot Springs all of them have a 5 year part and labor warranty, and comparable surface and structure warranty. All of them will be able to heat the water to a desired temp, all will keep the water clean, all will be very similar in energy efficiency. There are no big secrets. So you pick out three tubs that you like, wet test them and like all three of them equally. At that point pick the dealer that you feel will do the best job of taking care of you after the sale. Spas will break down, they will need to be repaired, and you want to buy from someone who can get that done.

I will speak from my experience. If I have a customer that is interested in a spa and the number that you are willing to spend is in the price range you've picked out then you will have plenty of different options to pick from. I would say the best thing you can do is look around at the dealers in a larger city near where your at. Pick three that you like and then its time to make a decision. I think I would shy away from people on this forum saying you should pick X brand. The brand of spa is irrelevant in my opinion. As long as your selecting from a major national manufacturer of spas your going to be safe. The most important thing after you have narrowed down your selection is the comfort level that you have with your dealer. No matter what anyone says spas are a service item. Ask how long they have carried the brand of spa, ask if they do service in house, both of those things are indicators of a good dealer. Red flags would be someone promising the moon, if they switch brands of spa frequently. To give you an example in my market there is a company that has been in business for 10 years, they have carried five different brand of spa, and they farm all of their service out to a third party. All of those would be in my book a red flag. Buy a spa from someone who isnt afriad to give you refrences, that has carried the brand for a decent amount of time, and someone who makes a point of doing their own service. Hope this helps.

Having more filters will not make the water any cleaner. The only thing it will do is allow you to go longer in between cleaning. To give you an example a cartridge filter will clean down to around 25 microns or so. Every major brand of spa will filter all of the water in the spa. The brand I sell sometimes uses a circ pump to do it, or sometimes a bigger pump on low speed (depends on the series of spa) at a minimum of 30 times a day. All of the water that is passed though the filter will be cleaned to that level, no matter if it passes through one filter or five. The only advantage of having more filters is that they will be able to hold more material. A disadvantage will be that instead of replacing one or two filters you will be replacing five. I hope this helps.

I'm a spa dealer as well, I don't sell either of the brands that you mentioned but both are very solid. If you like both of the spas equally well then the most important thing is the comfort level with both of the dealers, spas no matter what anyone says are a service item. The dealer is probably the most important thing when it comes to spa sales. Hope this helps.

If you have narrowed it down to two spas, and you like them the same, then I would pick the dealer that you feel more comfortable with. They are actually more important then the spa it self. Both of those tubs are solid brands, but the dealer is the one you are going to have to interact with for getting service and everything else. Hope this helps.

While he is correct about switching from Baquacil over to cl2, its not that hard. The pool might turn a bit brown if there is any Baquacil left in the water its not all that difficult. Water mold can grow in any pool, it doesn’t matter if its on CL2, Bromine, or Baquacil. Actually I had a customer switch from CL2 over to Baquacil Ultra and after he switched the water mold that had been living in his lines was killed. The point is no system is bullet proof, but there are ways to help reduce the chances of having water mold. As for cost, it used to be about 30% more expensive then chlorine but with the price increases that been issued over the past couple of years with chlorine the price difference isn’t all that much, with Baquacil probably being a little more expensive. The cons are as he listed, you are more likely to get a water ring, its a byproduct of Baquacil. You'll have to change the sand in the filter more often then you will on chlorine. The pros are that you only have to check the water once a week, and you add product once a week. Its all PH neutral so once your water is balanced your not going to have to mess with that very often. It makes the water feel softer, and it is much easier on swimsuits and on liners.

I think something everyone needs to keep in mind while selecting a spa is the comfort level of wherever your purchasing it from. If its a local dealer, a mass merchant, a used spa from a guy down the street, it is one of the most important things. All major spa manufactures have good ideas when it comes to filtration, energy efficiency, sanitization, ect. Also all major brands are sold around the world, and they are designed to withstand just about any climate. I've been in the pool and spa industry for about ten years now, and while our primary brand of spa has not changed we have carried a couple of different ones in addition and all of them have worked well in my climate (upper Midwest.) Energy usage is going to probably cost around $20 on average a month. There is not an exact way to meter spa energy usage unless you put the spa on its own electrical meter. One more thing to consider, moving up from a voyager spa to something with "more technology" as you put it you are increasing the chances of their being a malfunction on the spa, and it might not be something that you want to fix, and it might be worth while to purchase from a company that makes their living at it. As an example read a few threads below this about how a spa from costco broke down and now they are having trouble getting it fixed. "I would recommend putting the tub outside if possible, close to the house. Soaking outside in the winter is, without a doubt, the greatest experience. It's terrific." I agree with this statement completely. Hope this helps.

I can try to help and speak from my experience building pools in the Midwest. In regards to the plumbing lines when my company builds pools we plumb each line with its own valve. It sounds more like the first builder your talking about. There are many advantages, opening and closing the pool is easier, you can close down the main drains to get more suction while vacuuming. In terms of having more problems down the road with more plumbing lines in case they were to develop a leak I would disagree with your second builder saying that is more difficult to work on if there are more lines. The fact is with individually plumbed lines if you were to develop a leak you can isolate by plugging the return and or skimmer and closing the correct valve. Then the pool is still usable, not leaking, and you can determine what course of action need to be taken to repair the line. In practice gluing pvc isn’t all that difficult, and usually leaks don't just develop. If the pool isn't winterized properly you’re screwed either way, and no matter how its plumbed its not going to stop a line that has water in it, its probably going to break. As for your second question about what backfill material to use, if your backfilling with pea gravel it essentially has the same effect that a drainage tile would have. Water will drain through it and not pool against the panels that make up the wall of your pool. While it wouldn’t hurt by any stretch, it seems a little redundant. If your builder is planning on using sand for backfill material then I would probably insist on a tile. I don't know anything about retaining walls so I won't offer any opinions for your third question. Hope this helps.