104 Degrees Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Unless it is a Hot Springs policy not to offer a customer orientation, than I would run away from that dealer. Think what you will need to "motivate" them when it comes time to fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris H Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Most dealers would not service your spa if you purchased from a different dealer. Service is rarely profitable, so would you service something in which you have no vested interest, probably not. This tactic is going to be standard throughout the industry not just Hotspring dealers. You are trying to play a game with these guys and quite frankly they seem to be very experienced and have seen this game played before. I actually enjoy when dealers hold their ground. It says that they are being fair to their current customers. Look at it from this perspective, it certainly isn’t fair to their current customers that you are want some great deal because you decided to call around for a price. I respect the dealer for holding their ground and taking this type of action. When a dealer is willing to hold their ground, it tells me they are not hurting for sales. It also tells me that the other dealer is hurting for sales when they need to sell out of thier area to generate business. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B0Darc Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Good luck really. I hear ya. I'm feeling it myself. It's a weird time Economically speaking and everybody's gettin' weird on me too. I recently returned a new major purchase... I'll spare everyone the details, it was basically new and poorly designed to the point of defective. Now I can't find a suitable replacement as this is the end of many corporate/retail tax years (Jan 31 not Dec 31). Inventories are crazy low and the imminent release of new product lines and closing out of last years inventory is almost toxic to Buyers. I'm doing without for now... I'm on hold. You might also be wise to wait for the pendulum to swing. For me it feels like swimming upstream... think I'll wait for the tide to shift... oh and I *don't* buy unless the deal is tasty. These days "New" is almost always better and a little cheaper. Just realize that goes both ways... like the Jewelry kiosk at the mall selling gold chains with the permanent 50% off sign. Doesn't our demand to haggle really create some of the pseudo-gouging in a way? heh... not that you're being pseudo-gouged, sounds like your dealer is hanging on for dear life! [chuckling] Maybe his daughter is getting married and he needs someone to pay for the flowers. Be patient, $tay liquid, but if you gotta soak, you gotta soak. I mean the phrases "Buyers Market - Sellers Market" have real meaning... sounds like he has you over a barrel (spa joke!) While I like a deal surely as much as you, there have been times I had to relinquish and pay the man... hey Seller's Market. hhaha and watch out for that pendulum swinging, it weighs like a couple tons and is razor sharp... you can outsmart yourself. But I'm with you... how can you drop 10 grand and not be happy? I think there's a Sales lesson in there ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 You guys have helped clear this issue up, BUT I am about to walk away. A purchase of this size should be one that makes you sooooo happy in all ways. I will not settle for just any deal. I don't like it or feel good about it...but it looks like the other manufacturers are about to get my attention and money. Go get wet! If you want to give it one last try go in and leave on your own terms with a back up plan ready. Just say "I've researched what I think is fair and can only offer this. If you're not interested that's certainly your prerogative but if so I'll be going to XXXX Spas and purchasing from them". If/when they say no thanks simply leave and don't look back but do it with a smile and don't make or take it personally, its business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL Parrothead Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yep. If I were you, I'd go back to the dealer one more time and tell him which model Jacuzzi, Marquis, or whatever you're now looking at & give him one last chance to make the deal. If it doesn't work, like spatech said, walk away. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digger_22 Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 WOW...went to a Hot Springs dealer today to wet test and get pricing information. The wet test was great, the pricing was a disaster. They wouldn't budge on price at all. Was really dissapointed in their approach or sales strategy. I offered to pay cash and the price was the same. I always thought cash would get me a better price. Not with this Hot Springs dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 WOW...went to a Hot Springs dealer today to wet test and get pricing information. The wet test was great, the pricing was a disaster. They wouldn't budge on price at all. Was really dissapointed in their approach or sales strategy. I offered to pay cash and the price was the same. I always thought cash would get me a better price. Not with this Hot Springs dealer. I can't tell whether or not you're getting a fiar deal but it not always determiened by whether the dealer "drops" his price. Some dealers price high to leave room for the customer to haggle. Others don't play the game and give the same price to all, much as the Saturn car dealers do. Don't assume that how much they "drop" their price is indicative of how good of a deal you're getting. I've worked with both type dealers and personally very much prefer one dealer in particular who gives a fair deal to all but holds the price (and he really does though patience and the right approach can get a very small drop). I've seen a few shoppers who get the perception they aren't getting a deal because he holds that price, they just need to feel they've bargained it down. Its often just perception because I've also seen shoppers elsewhere giddy when a dealer "drops" his price when I know all along it was just dropped to the price the other dealer started at!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravelingSpaGuy Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 lol sales people cant win, we drop our prices and you find out it was all a lie on the internet, we give you our best price and you want us to budge... there are plenty of hot tubs out there...I wouldnt want to deal with that HS dealer anyway, with that type of attitude they probably cant stay in business anyway not to mention Hot Springs could jank the line from them if they get these complaints often and they arnt selling enough tubs... hot springs needs you more then you need hot springs...I promise you will be plenty happy with a nice d1, sundance, jacuzzi or whatever else you looking at...maybe even check out Bullfrog, I have become a huge fan of that brand recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
104 Degrees Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 maybe even check out Bullfrog, I have become a huge fan of that brand recently Why Recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prof_chop Posted January 20, 2008 Report Share Posted January 20, 2008 Confused: I also have been shopping for a tub for a while, but since I have been focusing on buying an Infinity from Costco (if you really want your head to explode - try wading through the forums discussing the pros and cons of going down that road!), I just came across this forum. I recently moved, and had to sell my last tub due to size constraints. I bought it from Aries Spas (manufacturer in Rockwall, TX) at a price roughly half of the 'name brand' tubs offered by local dealers. They delivered it to west Texas (charged $300), but set it up, filled it, demoed it, and stood behind it with great service for the 4+ years I owned it. They provide local warranty service in the DFW area, and contract with outside repair facilities for purchasers outside of their local service area. During the time I owned the Aries, I replaced the ozonater once, and had an issue with a pump. Both times they sent me the part and walked me through the installation (I preferred to do it myself, rather than schedule a local spa tech, which they offered to pay for). I would buy another tub from them in a heartbeat, but they don't have a tub that fits my very limited space/feature requirements in my new home. You might want to check them out (http://www.ariesspas.com/). Good luck! Prof Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 HotSpring sales training is always based on going the extra mile, and management training is based on going two. It is not the policy of Watkins MFG to make any part of the buying or owning process hard, though they do recommend licensed electricians hook up the wires. I have gone out to many homes to start up spas after the electrician completed his work. To speed up the process, I have sometimes walked the new (excited) owner through the filling process via phone so it could be heating when I arrived to do the orientation. I have also done the orientation in-store on a floor model spas - on occasion, but again, that was to expedite the first soak for the customer. The only thing that is hard at a Hotspings dealer is getting a honest price right up front without the haggling! Perhaps management could take a lesson from the Saturn company and let the customer feel at ease with the most stressfull part of the purchase.... The PRICE!!!! Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only thing that is hard at a Hotspings dealer is getting a honest price right up front without the haggling! Perhaps management could take a lesson from the Saturn company and let the customer feel at ease with the most stressfull part of the purchase.... The PRICE!!!! Just a thought. Soakerman , C'mon, if that dealer or any other went the Saturn method I guarantee you still wouldn't buy from them because you'd be convinced they were ripping you off because they gave you a price and held to it. You have shown to be someone who purchases based on price so it wouldn't matter if they went the Saturn route or went with pricing that allowed for haggling. You'll always be the type to buy from the internet or a big box store based on fake specs and price but you shouldn't expect others to look at buying products the same way as others consider quality and value much more when shopping. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only thing that is hard at a Hotspings dealer is getting a honest price right up front without the haggling! Blatantly untrue. Sorry. HotSpring dealers are independantly owned, and unless you have toured and priced spas at the over 800 HS dealers globally, I would be more careful about making broad statements of this type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IL Parrothead Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The real truth is, you read these forums and see postings about those Infinity spas. Consistently, you hear the same thing over and over again -- no wet testing, quality issues and poor insulation/high energy consumption. Then, you hear Soakerman. I'll still respond, so the original posters have a reality check. But, as the original poster has consistently said, the dealer near him has given him a no-haggle price. The original poster just isn't happy with it. We don't know that dealer's overhead. It's certainly up to him/her to decide what to sell for. Soaker, your rants don't even square up with the postings anymore. To the original poster, TravelingSpaGuy has a point. If you're not happy with this dealer, then look at some of the other quality tubs in your area. I'm sure your personality will click with one of those dealers, and you'll be posting a new thread about how happy you are. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only thing that is hard at a Hotspings dealer is getting a honest price right up front without the haggling! Blatantly untrue. Sorry. HotSpring dealers are independantly owned, and unless you have toured and priced spas at the over 800 HS dealers globally, I would be more careful about making broad statements of this type. thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are within 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 The only thing that is hard at a Hotspings dealer is getting a honest price right up front without the haggling! Blatantly untrue. Sorry. HotSpring dealers are independantly owned, and unless you have toured and priced spas at the over 800 HS dealers globally, I would be more careful about making broad statements of this type. thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are withing 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are withing 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! So now you like price fixing between dealers? I'm not sure if it's because they are corporate stores, pushed by corporate to do so or whether they are just getting together to fix the prices as a group but it seems to me that usually people prefer it when each store prices independently. I'd hate it if I got the idea that they were all getting together to stop me from being able to shop around to see who might have the best deal. You sure seem to think differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are withing 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! So now you like price fixing between dealers? I'm not sure if it's because they are corporate stores, pushed by corporate to do so or whether they are just getting together to fix the prices as a group but it seems to me that usually people prefer it when each store prices independently. I'd hate it if I got the idea that they were all getting together to stop me from being able to shop around to see who might have the best deal. You sure seem to think differently. I do think independantly as a consumer and don't like playing games with my money when it comes to paying thousands of dollars and hopeing I got a fair deal. This isn't the wild west or Las Vegas! Just honesty and integrity is what most people that puchase a spa want in the first place. I think most people would want to take a baseball bat to someone if they knew they paid a thousand dollars more then they should have just because they don't know hot to play the game! Why don't dealers just be fair and upfront? Is that to much to ask? Stop playing the "game". I would love to go into a dealer and know that the price is " fixed" as you say then I can either take it or leave it.... What a Idea! If the dealer can change his price on a spa and and not be fair and consistent then his integrity is in question as to the after the sale service and the treatment you will recieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 I would love to go into a dealer and know that the price is " fixed" as you say then I can either take it or leave it.... What a Idea! But isn't that what happened in this thread. The customer went in, the delaer gave a price and when there was no haggling because the price was fixed the customer was unhappy. Now you're saying having a fixed price is good but earlier the Hot Spring dealer was evil. Make up your mind. Fixed pricing or room for haggling? Maybe you could just be more up front for once and say all Hot Springs dealers are evil (as well as Sundance, Arctic and all the others you bash unilaterally). And what's with you siding with Cal Spas price fixing between dealers that you saw? Are they selling through your Costco stores now so they've avoided your Axis of Evil list? In the end I'm confused on this. I can't tell if you're more of a waffler or more of a flip-flopper!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan.The.Spa.Man Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are withing 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! So now you like price fixing between dealers? I'm not sure if it's because they are corporate stores, pushed by corporate to do so or whether they are just getting together to fix the prices as a group but it seems to me that usually people prefer it when each store prices independently. I'd hate it if I got the idea that they were all getting together to stop me from being able to shop around to see who might have the best deal. You sure seem to think differently. I do think independantly as a consumer and don't like playing games with my money when it comes to paying thousands of dollars and hopeing I got a fair deal. This isn't the wild west or Las Vegas! Just honesty and integrity is what most people that puchase a spa want in the first place. I think most people would want to take a baseball bat to someone if they knew they paid a thousand dollars more then they should have just because they don't know hot to play the game! Why don't dealers just be fair and upfront? Is that to much to ask? Stop playing the "game". I would love to go into a dealer and know that the price is " fixed" as you say then I can either take it or leave it.... What a Idea! If the dealer can change his price on a spa and and not be fair and consistent then his integrity is in question as to the after the sale service and the treatment you will recieve. Different dealers have incredibly different costs to operate their independently owned stores. My boss has owned our pool and spa store for over 40 years and has no mortgage or debt. We also sell and make money on above ground pools, inground pools, saunas, chemicals, and the many parts and accessories associated with pools. Of course we can afford to sell spas less than a person who has been in business for 5 years and pays $5000/month in rent for a small strip mall store that just sells spas. Most people that shop for big ticket items have a preconceived notion that the item being purchased has some negotiation room in the price. Many dealers have a philosophy that they need to increase their product price in preparation for this. If I have a spa that I would sell for no less than $7000 and I advertise it for that amount, people who believe there is negotiation room will not buy it. If I advertise it for $9000 and then come down to $7000 this same person may be thrilled to buy it. One of the things that makes this country great is that people have the freedom to operate their business how they want. The ones who do a good job make it...the ones who operate deceptively and unfairly don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 thats true! I have been to four in my area as I live in a large city and none are withing 1 thousand dollars of one another. They do need to be consitent in there priceing as their credibility as a reputable outfit would surely be boosted by that, Integrity in priceing is what it is called. The Cal Spa dealers " four of them" all have the prices clearly marked when you enter the showroom with popular options pacs also clearly marked ont the display. That is a great way to go and funny thing is they where all the same price accros the city unlike the HotSpings dealerships and yes the Cal Spa store are independants, I asked! So now you like price fixing between dealers? I'm not sure if it's because they are corporate stores, pushed by corporate to do so or whether they are just getting together to fix the prices as a group but it seems to me that usually people prefer it when each store prices independently. I'd hate it if I got the idea that they were all getting together to stop me from being able to shop around to see who might have the best deal. You sure seem to think differently. I do think independantly as a consumer and don't like playing games with my money when it comes to paying thousands of dollars and hopeing I got a fair deal. This isn't the wild west or Las Vegas! Just honesty and integrity is what most people that puchase a spa want in the first place. I think most people would want to take a baseball bat to someone if they knew they paid a thousand dollars more then they should have just because they don't know hot to play the game! Why don't dealers just be fair and upfront? Is that to much to ask? Stop playing the "game". I would love to go into a dealer and know that the price is " fixed" as you say then I can either take it or leave it.... What a Idea! If the dealer can change his price on a spa and and not be fair and consistent then his integrity is in question as to the after the sale service and the treatment you will recieve. Different dealers have incredibly different costs to operate their independently owned stores. My boss has owned our pool and spa store for over 40 years and has no mortgage or debt. We also sell and make money on above ground pools, inground pools, saunas, chemicals, and the many parts and accessories associated with pools. Of course we can afford to sell spas less than a person who has been in business for 5 years and pays $5000/month in rent for a small strip mall store that just sells spas. Most people that shop for big ticket items have a preconceived notion that the item being purchased has some negotiation room in the price. Many dealers have a philosophy that they need to increase their product price in preparation for this. If I have a spa that I would sell for no less than $7000 and I advertise it for that amount, people who believe there is negotiation room will not buy it. If I advertise it for $9000 and then come down to $7000 this same person may be thrilled to buy it. One of the things that makes this country great is that people have the freedom to operate their business how they want. The ones who do a good job make it...the ones who operate deceptively and unfairly don't. Then don't be upset when thousands of people don't want to play the price game and get a box store spa because quit frankly, your cost to run your store is not my concearn as a consumer. Paying a fair price is my concern so If your ok with that since this is America where we have the choice to do as we wish then don't whine about the box store, walmart, Costco ect. Dealership priceing policies created this whole mess and as a result, people are voteing with their pocket book. The computer industry also tried to keep the consumer captive by inflating prices on computers then people voted with their pocketbooks and the dealer lost again. Dealerships should see the handwritting on the wall and not treat people with dissrespect and prey on their lack of knowledge to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 If your ok with that since this is America where we have the choice to do as we wish then don't whine about the box store, walmart, Costco ect. Dealership priceing policies created this whole mess and as a result, people are voteing with their pocket book. Sure, you can vote your displeasure at having to pay more for quality dealer spas by buying from the big box retailer but at this point most all spas sold through that type discount channel are the lower quality spas (aka discount spas). While you're choosing to spend less you're also getting less so you haven't gained anything, you've just chosen a differnent path (and a rocky one at that IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 21, 2008 Report Share Posted January 21, 2008 If your ok with that since this is America where we have the choice to do as we wish then don't whine about the box store, walmart, Costco ect. Dealership priceing policies created this whole mess and as a result, people are voteing with their pocket book. Sure, you can vote your displeasure at having to pay more for quality dealer spas by buying from the big box retailer but at this point most all spas sold through that type discount channel are the lower quality spas (aka discount spas). While you're choosing to spend less you're also getting less so you haven't gained anything, you've just chosen a differnent path (and a rocky one at that IMO). Ahh but ST lest we forget that Soaker thinks he got the same thing and there is no convincing him otherwise! He will learn soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soakerman Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 If your ok with that since this is America where we have the choice to do as we wish then don't whine about the box store, walmart, Costco ect. Dealership priceing policies created this whole mess and as a result, people are voteing with their pocket book. Sure, you can vote your displeasure at having to pay more for quality dealer spas by buying from the big box retailer but at this point most all spas sold through that type discount channel are the lower quality spas (aka discount spas). While you're choosing to spend less you're also getting less so you haven't gained anything, you've just chosen a differnent path (and a rocky one at that IMO). Ahh but ST lest we forget that Soaker thinks he got the same thing and there is no convincing him otherwise! He will learn soon enough. You guys also forgot to add in your opinion because neither of yo uknow but rather hope they are lesser quality and the market will only bear gouging for so long before it responds. Look at all the dearships clossing there doors . You guys still think a domestic car is beter then a hyundia when it some to quality I bet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas Posted January 22, 2008 Report Share Posted January 22, 2008 Then don't be upset when thousands of people don't want to play the price game and get a box store spa because quit frankly, your cost to run your store is not my concearn as a consumer. Paying a fair price is my concern so If your ok with that since this is America where we have the choice to do as we wish then don't whine about the box store, walmart, Costco ect. Dealership priceing policies created this whole mess and as a result, people are voteing with their pocket book. Based on what numbers, what info? Where do you get your amazing insight into the spa industry? Tell me again how many tubs you have purchased - how many years you have been in the industry? The numbers I hear are like this: the entire industry is down double digits. However, Watkins MFG is down much less than the overall industry. That equals a gain in market share in a down market. So - unless you have highly placed sources we don't know about - then please back off: your opinion is just that, but the facts in the general market don't bear them out. Several makers have pulled their Big Box programs because they just aren't moving the numbers, and the sqeeze to get the prices that low means they have to do things they don't want to - or simply can't - do on an ongoing basis. And the satisfaction rate is at an all-time low. I have sold three spas to folks who returned tubs to big boxes in the last two months. Dealerships should see the handwritting on the wall and not treat people with dissrespect and prey on their lack of knowledge to make money. There may be dealerships like that all around - but the ones who offer high quality tubs and back them with good service are still able to stick around. That is, if they keep the margins where they need them to pay the bills. No business can stay around if they "prey on" anybody. In any industry. I have never wanted to be the lowest price dealer in town. And right now, I am the only one left in town - after 21 years. And I don't play games with prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts