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Hi there, Please call me directly, at 1-800-309-1744, x329. I'll get you the help you are looking for... Thanks, Vern Vern Nelson North America Factory Sales Rep Blue Falls Manufacturing - Manufacturer of Arctic Spa®, Coyote Spa®, Apollo Spa®, Guild Billiards and Arctic Gazebos vnelson@goarctic.com www.goarctic.com 1-800-309-1744 x329

Hi there, I have passed your contact information to the head of our R&D this morning. He has tried both contact numbers that were attached to your email. He has told me he will continue to try to reach you. I know it can be a frustrating thing when you may get conflicting advice, however we are here to help. If you prefer, you may contact us directly at the factory - 1-800-309-1744. Sincerely, Vern

Sorry, didn't let James' reply load before I responded. Hope you are getting the help you need. Vern

Hi there, Sorry you are having some problems. Please PM me your spa serial number and contact information and I will get you the help you need. Vern Vern Nelson North American Factory Rep Blue Falls Manufacturing vnelson@goarctic.com

The lifespan of disposable filters can vary with water conditions and bather load, but 3-4 months is not abnormal. There was no filter "recall", this salesperson was misinformed perhaps. Either one of the two filters you described is fine, and gives fairly similar performance. Most Arctic dealers worldwide will carry the end-capped versions moving forward. Regards, Vern

Glad to hear, other than the weather of late, that its been a good experience. Happy Tubbin'! Vern

Thanks. They definitely put salt in...and gave me the residual salt container. I don't think i got a cheat sheet, but I'll look again. I was not informed about the "low level" programming. Does that mean accessing the onzen generator via the wood panels? Where in relation to the external "high level" controls is the onzen generator? Do you turn a dial? I can't find anything on the Arctic site and I think my dealer was more interested in making the sale than helping. Or maybe they have been really busy and overwhelmed with the Holidays, etc. So, if I turn the onzen system to 6, I should see the Cl level on dipstick and the ORP reading increase. Sounds good. I'll try to figure this out. On the good side, we've used the spa a lot and see no signs of water impurity. cp setting is in the low level programming, you have to hold the filter button for 20 seconds, than push the arrow button ( tempurature button ) a few times, and you will see the cp setting ? depending on what it is set at, I would change it to 6 if you are always in the tub and the cl is low, as your body will use a lot of it up while your in the tub, then adjust from here, don't wory you will get all the help you need from Arctic, you will also get the answers your looking for on this Forum just remember people are on holidays, I have not had to touch anything else on my tub. WHAT is your CP set at? I did find the cheat sheet and set the CP to "6." I was at "3." Checked the Onzen (inside the cabinet) and it was set at highest level. I will recheck the ORP in a day or so. What is your ORP reading? The installer said > 400 is what you want. It sounds like even higher is better. Like I said, mine is at 150 or so. Where are things at now? Sorry, just got back from the break today, but here to help if you need. Vern

Absolutely they can. Vern

Its a total pain, but I can't imagine using my tub inside a gazebo or other shelter - this year its been an every day, or every second day task - not worried about the cover, worried about my back lifting the snow-loaded cover every night! Happy Holidays All!

Hi Kevin, Paradise Bay is the only authorized Arctic Spa Dealer in Calgary. I think the criticism that you might see here of P-Bay is similar to criticism of Arctic Spas generally on this board. We are the largest manufacturer and retailer of spas in Canada, and Paradise Bay is similarly a very large, very successful operation. Given the scale with which we operate in Canada and the large number of Canadians that use this board, we are going to see in my opinion, a disproportionate number of negative comments versus other manufacturers, and in the case of P-Bay, retailers. With success comes the daunting task of maintaining success, and its an ever-growing challenge. But knowing the staff at Paradise Bay, they are doing their best to provide the service that we all intend. If and when there are gaps in that service, we have committed corporately to helping out wherever we can. I hope that helps a bit, my only suggestion would be to talk with the management at P-Bay, and let them know how important the dealer-customer relationship is to you. I think they can reassure you that they are on your side. Best of the Season, Vern

Hi Kevin, Sorry I totally missed your post over the last couple of visits. I think you are getting accurate information from the folks at P-Bay. At this time, the Alaskan 8' and the Midnight Sun 7' are indeed being offered only in limited markets. Both are available in 20 and 30 jets options, and are designed for those who want the benefit of a lot of Arctic design without some of the bells and whistles. There is a small list of optional equipment. At this time we have nothing online on these models - your dealer is your best source for more info and for pricing. Best of the Holidays, Vern

Beautiful ice fog at -37C (-34F) this morning just south of Edmonton, AB. (At least we didn't get 100cm of snow like our friends in Ontario). My spa lost 4 degrees in 45 minutes or so, but still a nice session. I always like the venturis open, so some of that heat loss could have been prevented I suppose...Season's Greetings to All!

A most sincere "Thank you!" for your business from all of us at Arctic Spas, and hope you have a great time with your new spa over the holidays! Vern

Thank you for submitting your information - I talked to Christian this morning. Let me know how things are progressing as this moves forward. Vern

Hi Joy, Can you PM your spa serial number and your local dealer to me, and I will get in touch with them. Vern

I will inquire and get back to you. Cheers! Vern Vern Salp, I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do? I m pretty suprised that it is not needed (maybe not needed, but would be BETTER) ... the gromets.... does gecko not supply them with the boards/packs? I would like to see them on mine.....

Salp, I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do? I m pretty suprised that it is not needed (maybe not needed, but would be BETTER) ... the gromets.... does gecko not supply them with the boards/packs? I would like to see them on mine.....

Hi Guys, Just to echo what noarctic is saying, we don't require all wiring to be watertight on that side of the pack. As we move forward that is certainly a reasonable goal. Multiple wires coming out of one area, which can't use the rubber grommet method for example, get a shot of silicone to help resist some moisture. As for the pinched cable, likely it was left that way on delivery day (hate to throw the tech under the bus) but it makes no sense for it to come out of production that way. A few years ago, its was fairly acceptable to route small cables between the door of the pack and the side, as there was a notched area moulded right into the right side of the MSPA pack door designed by Gecko just for this purpose. Just asked some production guys about timeframe on that, they think maybe 3-4 years ago some of that was still being done, but again, that is not longer the practice. Vern Salp, I'm not in Edmonton. I've been told factory spec. does not include a black grommet for these cables in and out of the spa pack. Factory spec. does not call for the holes for these cables to be water tight. As for pinching the cable, my tub was delivered that way. Spending over $10,000.00 for a tub and this is the best they can do?

To me, the wiki, while needing some post-2007 contribution, is reasonably clear and accurate. I am happy to clarify if required however, that Blue Falls Manufacturing is not in receivership, has never been in receivership and is doing well financially. Have a nice day. Vern I came to the same conclusion you did regarding the way the original poster stated the information. I didn't think that HS was in that kind of financial trouble, but I knew someone would jump on and post the correct information. Thanks for the clarification. Still, is Arctic in receivership? According to Wikipedia it was in 1994, but today? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Spas

Hey Vern - no offence taken, I'm sure the tubs you sell are just fine, but that sure was a very long sales pitch of yours! Regarding mechanical efficiencies, a good analogy is to think of a 24 hour circ pump as a Sunday driver doing maybe 30 mph. It's obviously gonna take him 10 hours to travel 300 miles. Now...think of the main pump at half speed as the same car doing 150 mph and getting there in 2 hours. They've both achieved the same thing, but who's gonna use the most gas? The guy who does it at 150 mph of course. The reason being non-linear frictional losses encountered by both the the drivetrain and wind resistance. Similar losses occur in a hot tubs plumbing system, i.e. the faster you try and push water around, the more frictional losses occur due to 'drag' caused by angle joints, and the inside of the pipes. Again, this is not a linear equation as water begins to behave as more of a 'solid' at high velocities, requiring disproportionally more 'pumping' power, and ultimately a higher electric bill. Mikey, *L* Again, my apologies. I have had wayyyy too many 4+ hour sales pitches in my past to always be brief, but I will spare you all that experience in the future. I really do wish to help our customers and to provide accurate information. Thanks for the kind reminder however. Okay, very interesting on this topic though - I have long wondered if there was more to it than just flow rate and runtime. I know of some projects here that have worked on swept rigid PVC fittings to alleviate some of the drag perhaps not so much focused on filtration but on improving jetting efficiency. Tomorrow I will hassle some of the engineers here to see what they think...*L* Looking back, I think the point I was actually trying to get at is that in our experience, our desire to have a powerful top-skimming vortex as a key part of our filtration concept as well as the use of fine filter media led us to cycled filtration. Have a great night... V

Okay, point taken, and sincere apologies. The quoted material was an observation of our work here, not worldwide, and I should not have made a blanket statement. Question though - as a mechie, would you think that the efficiency of a circ. pump system is greater or lesser, or similar to that of a cycled filtration system? Cheers! Vern

HI Nigel, James is back tomorrow or the day after I believe, and he has been using Aqua Finesse in his spa. He wll have better information than I do, I'm sorry. I'll be sure to get him in touch with you. Vern

Vern, I see the HS coming out on top overall. I see the Arctic winning at some temps but considering the water volume difference between the Arctic and the HS if you calculate a higher volume for the HS it will come out the winner in even more catagorys. Sorry I guess I am reading it differently. Add to that a thicker cover and I think you'll see the Arctic can hold it's own but the HS was the true winner. Besides Arctic garnered the test to there specs which IMO skews the results. And who cares anyway when we are talking pennys. Of course, welcome to your own opinion. The Hot Springs did not run any filtration during the test, which likely help it achieve the position it did. We did not garnered (sic) to there (sic) specs actually. Once we bought all the spas we could not be involved at all. The Alberta Research Council is mandated to do 3rd party testing by our provincial government in many different areas including manufacturing, oil and gas, advanced materials - they are not in the business of fixing results for hot tub companies I assure you. Additionally, if the cover mattered it should be a part of the spa, its like saying you could add more insulation if you wanted to. I do take your point however, that we are not arguing over huge amounts of money. Cheers! Vern

Dude, you have been drinking waaaay too much Arctic Kool-aid!! Do some searches in here and around the web and read some of the experiences other Arctic owners have had. I try to buy Canadian as much as I can too, for example, almost all of my son's goalie equipment is high-quality, Canadian made stuff. But - first and foremost, it has to be high-quality for me to even consider it. I would not buy a Canadian product simply because it was made here, if it was inferior to something else that happened to be made south of the border. If you buy a hot tub strictly because you think that the best tubs for our climates HAVE to be made here in Canada, you are sadly mistaken and may end up with an inferior, Canadian-made product. Other than the Arctic propaganda, what research have you done to make you so sure that products made in the States can't handle our harsher climate and it's requirements? Can you post a link to the Alberta Research Council test results? Seems to me that you have swallowed Arctic's sales pitch, hook - line - and sinker! Just out of curiosity, have they tried to push you into Peroxysan too? Hi there, The study is not available online, but I can email it to you as a PDF if you would like. The study is getting old, but to my knowledge its about all there is out there. The industry is make slowwww steps to create testing that may help customers make better informed decisions, but it will take time. Peroxysan is not approved by Blue Falls Manufacturing, and dealers who have chosen to carry this product have been so advised. Sincerely, Vern

Hi Great White, Firstly, a sincere thank you for considering our product. I know quite a few military and commercial pilots worldwide that have become interested in our spas - I do believe that time in one of our spas (particularly a Glacier, more on this later) would provide you with the therapy you are looking for. I also wanted to thank you for the career you have chosen - for guy like me who heads to your part of the world whenever possible (love salmon/halibut fishing!) its always a reassuring feeling to see your equipment when I land in Victoria or Comox. Thank you for your service to our country! Having said that, I really hope I never need a ride... Anyhow, back to the spas...I will try to add some information relevant to your post, and to wade through the posts that have followed your initial, and will attempt to correct the numerous inaccuracies strewn about. Therapy - You are considering what I believe to be the most therapeutic spa in our current lineup. Particularly in the men's, or deeper therapy seat you have a fantastic arrangement of 5" rotating bearing-less jets. (As you have pointed out, all Arctics are now 100% equipped with thread-in/out jets.) The Glacier was the first mould design I had when I started with Arctic and having used so many spas since then, both of our and other manufacture, its still stands out in terms of its ability to give a great powerful massage. As an additional note, if you are considering a Signature or Ultra jetting package (2 pump versions), you will have the ability to have the entire flow rate of one pump (270 gal/min) to either side of the spa - you don't have to divert any flow at all. In my experience, with all the jets active and the venturi air at full, its all I could take. Of course you can dial this back in several ways, but...like passing speed in a car, its nice to have if you want it! The other item I would mention in terms of therapy, and I do hope you experience this in wet test, is the comfort provided by dual level armrests in these therapy seats. Until you have a spa without, then with armrests, you can't fully appreciate the relief that they offer. Shipping - All Arctic Spas are shipped vertically all around the globe. Over the past 2 years we have worked on our packaging to improve it as well - the product that is shipped today has high-density polystyrene bumpers that fit tightly on all the rail corners (8 in total) and are reusable. The product is also wrapped in thin layer of foam sheet before it is shrink wrapped. I would suggest keeping the bumpers with you (and pallet if possible) and shrink wrapping the spa when its move time again. To say our cabinet is strong would be an understatement, however one should also consider the shell strength when talking about moving these things around. I know of no other self - supporting shell in the world, and we continue to improve on that strength. (i.e. - Our new fiberglass resin technology (N.E.A.T.) is now 100% filler-free and allows us to build more strength into each mm of thickness.) If a transfer to the east coast is a possibility we have great dealers in that part of Canada as well... Foundation - There is currently no stronger floor in the world than a Forever Floor. Period. There are manufacturers out there that have pushed this forward this past year, and that's a great thing - but a SMC pressure moulded floor is still a lot stronger than an ABS vac-moulded product, (which is basically the next best thing). You can place a Forever Floor-equipped Arctic on any level surface with the fullest confidence that it will not have an issue. I would take my due diligence to compare between what a salesman claims, and what the warranty says on this point. It is fairly common practice in my experience, for salesmen to overstate this claim when they are up against Arctic for their commission. Most warranties will have a phrase similar to "must be on an approved surface", or an "engineered pad" which is the out for them when your shell cracks due to torsional load it cannot handle, i.e. - from an uneven foundation. "Approved" is open to a great deal of interpretation, little of which will be on your side I can assure you. I know at Arctic we have never denied a shell failure claim based on surface preparation. Caveat emptor ... Strength is key, but the ability to resist the intrusion of moisture and pests is important too. Any floor that flexes opens the possibility for this to happen. Lastly, in your situation, the grooves that are moulded into the floor will come in handy on move day! Cover Strength - A Castcore Mylovac cover can support over 1000lbs. per side. It truly is the definition of "made for the world's harshest climates." Taking into consideration the considerable time and money we've spent to create this cover we are acknowledging that heat does in fact rise, and that consistently and effectively trapping that rising heat should be a big priority. Manufacturers who trumpet insulation below or to the side of the thermal mass, but largely ignore the placement of effective insulation on top of that thermal mass cause me to question the integrity of their insulation argument. The Castcore Mylovac cover certainly is one of the key attributes that has grown from the geographic location we R&D our product. Seeing hundreds and hundreds of covers collapse under heavy ice/snow loads, and then creating and testing and providing something better is a result of the fairly unique experience to those who inhabit, and want to hot tub in the beautiful northern parts of the world. Efficiency - Ah, the quagmire of efficiency. To the good side of this, society's attention to green issues has begun to ratchet up attention on efficiency within the spa industry. I think between this, and the current economic conditions, we are seeing fewer of the really, really bad energy-use offenders out there. The California Energy Compliance Testing that was done earlier this year has been a start, but self-reporting has lead to some fairly comical statements. IMHO Cal Poly's testing is fraught with inaccuracies and is going to require a lot of work before it really represents any real benefit to the consumer. On the topic of testing, Blue Falls Manufacturing (manufacturer of Arctic Spas) is working with the Canadian Federal Government to develop a much more relevant set of testing criteria for the spa industry domestically - however at this time the Alberta Reseach Council's report on Thermal Performance Test of Spas remains, to my knowledge, the only 3rd party scientific study done on cold weather efficiency of hot tubs. What this test clearly stated (and I believe as you read, accurately) was that Arctic Spas use less power, particularly as the temperature drops, than any other of the spas in this study. I am not sure what confused other posters on this topic, the results are quite clear and quite decisive in the favor of the Arctic product. Filtration - It has been our experience that 24 hour filtration is useful in our climate only to prevent stationary water in uninsulated equipment enclosures from freezing. Circulation pumps are not expressly "more efficient", they are typically not rebuildable and, in our opinion, they are a redundant piece of equipment. Additionally, to provide the power that our Active Filtration system requires, a small circulation pump would be completely inadequate. They simply cannot draw water effectively through a depth filter like our 1 micron Silver Sentinel. One of our pumps on low speed uses a very comparable amount of energy to accomplish the same task as a 24 filtration pump, and as it does so, it adds to the ambient heat inside the cabinet, which in turn, reduces heater cycles. Cost - Yep, ours usually cost more money. EMG motors cost more. Reflex Torsion hose costs more. Resin is going through the roof. Gecko MSpa Packs cost more than SSpa, or most others. Having people hand roll fiberglass in (3) three stages costs a startling amount of money, particularly in Alberta where the coffee guy makes $20/hr. On and on it goes. Here, we are up to our eyeballs in engineers and R&D guys, they outnumber sales people like 9 to 1, and neither work cheap...I say cost is the cost of finding solutions, not just summarily reassembling parts that are "adequate", putting a different pillow logo in and calling it the best. You know, I guess I am I'm biased...*L*...I have drank the cool-aid, I wear the underwear. I have also been to most of our competitors show rooms, I have listened to their sales pitches with an open mind over and over again, and battled for deals all over this continent. But, and I truly believe this - an Arctic will likely be the last spa you buy. As one of our owners has said - "we never intended to be known as the biggest, just the best..." Whew...lots to think about. Maybe we can take it all back to the part where its fun to be in this thing? IMHO, the Glacier is one of the most comfortable spas we have ever built, and I particularly liked the seating arrangement as my wife and I could together look out across what another poster so kindly called "the middle of nowhere". If I can be of any help whatsoever, just PM. All the Best, in whichever spa is best for you. Sincerely, Vern