Narrowed It Down To Two...

[NoVA Spa Novice]

After much online research, store visits to many of the "major" mfg dealer's showrooms (i.e., Caldera, Jacuzzi, Hot Spring, Sundance, Marquis, D1, and CalSpa) and multiple "wet-tests" we have narrowed our final decision down to the following two choices: 1) Caldera Niagara, and 2) Jacuzzi J-365 (we also considered the J-355 for the lounger, but do not like the fact that Jacuzzi took away one of the corner seats for placement of the skimmer in that particular configuration)...

Also, until we wet-tested the Jacuzzi, the Sundance Optima was also in the running. However, the initial pricing point for the Sundance was a little above the Niagara, and we were comfortable in all three tubs). I realize the two Caldera and Sundance tubs are in their respective "top of the line" series' and the Jacuzzi is in the 2nd tier (behind their J-400 tubs), but feature-for-feature, we feel the J-365 either meets or exceeds the features of Caldera's and Sundance's top tubs. Having said that, we also like the pricing point on the Jacuzzi as the "offered price" before any negotiation is about $1,500 less than both the Niagara and Optima - I got the feeling from the Sundance dealer that they would do anything to either meet, or beat the local Caldera dealer's pricing, but in the whole scheme of things, we liked the Caldera a little better than the Optima - although the quoted pricing for both the Caldera and Sundance tubs included the GFCI panel and Jacuzzi did not. They all included the following: delivery/installation, cover and lifter, steps, ozonator (standard on the Niagara, but also included as a "gimme" on the Sundance and Jacuzzi tubs), and chemical start-up kit.

Having said all of that, I wanted to solicit additional comments on the reliability, service, technical specs (e.g., jet placement and types, circulation systems, etc.) and any other general information anyone can provide regarding the Caldera and Jacuzzi models we are reasearching. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Having said all of that, I wanted to solicit additional comments on the reliability, service, technical specs (e.g., jet placement and types, circulation systems, etc.) and any other general information anyone can provide regarding the Caldera and Jacuzzi models we are reasearching. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

I can't compare them feature for feature or comment on the pricing but they are two good manufacturers. Let the wet tests be your guide along with your confidence in the dealers, comparison of warranties and the deals they're offereing. Let them each know they're in the final running and you'd be satisfied with either spa (so they know you're willing to buy the other) and then be up front, ask them what their best offer is.

[Rob W]

I'd like to check out the Jacuzzi brand, but I notice their website and literature talk a lot about bells and whistles but don't say anything about things like shell construction and insulation and not a whole lot about their filtration system. Also, it looks like ozone is not standard on any of the models. Am I missing something?

[NoVA Spa Novice]

Having said all of that, I wanted to solicit additional comments on the reliability, service, technical specs (e.g., jet placement and types, circulation systems, etc.) and any other general information anyone can provide regarding the Caldera and Jacuzzi models we are reasearching. Thanks in advance for your assistance.

I can't compare them feature for feature or comment on the pricing but they are two good manufacturers. Let the wet tests be your guide along with your confidence in the dealers, comparison of warranties and the deals they're offereing. Let them each know they're in the final running and you'd be satisfied with either spa (so they know you're willing to buy the other) and then be up front, ask them what their best offer is.

Thanks spatech...this approach is exactly what I am planning to do...

[NoVA Spa Novice]

I'd like to check out the Jacuzzi brand, but I notice their website and literature talk a lot about bells and whistles but don't say anything about things like shell construction and insulation and not a whole lot about their filtration system. Also, it looks like ozone is not standard on any of the models. Am I missing something?

Rob, I believe if you download the (.pdf format) brochure for the series you are interested in (e.g., 400 series, 300 series, etc.) you will get all of the tech specs and jet info you need from the Jacuzzi website...also, I believe you are correct in the fact that ozone system is an optional feature on the Jacuzzi's, but the dealer I am talking to is throwing it in, along w/the cover, lifter, steps, chem start-up kit, etc. since all the other local dealers either have it standard on their tubs, or are including it as a "gimme"...anyway, hope this helps, and good luck in your search...

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I'd like to check out the Jacuzzi brand, but I notice their website and literature talk a lot about bells and whistles but don't say anything about things like shell construction and insulation and not a whole lot about their filtration system. Also, it looks like ozone is not standard on any of the models. Am I missing something?

Rob, I believe if you download the (.pdf format) brochure for the series you are interested in (e.g., 400 series, 300 series, etc.) you will get all of the tech specs and jet info you need from the Jacuzzi website...also, I believe you are correct in the fact that ozone system is an optional feature on the Jacuzzi's, but the dealer I am talking to is throwing it in, along w/the cover, lifter, steps, chem start-up kit, etc. since all the other local dealers either have it standard on their tubs, or are including it as a "gimme"...anyway, hope this helps, and good luck in your search...

Be careful when they are "throwing in" ozone systems. There are $300 CD ozonators and $49 UV cheapo ones (and many in between). If you don't ask sometimes you're getting an ozone but it may not be similar to the one that is standard equipment on another brand you may be comparing to. ASK about the ozonator.

[meriflower]

I'd like to check out the Jacuzzi brand, but I notice their website and literature talk a lot about bells and whistles but don't say anything about things like shell construction and insulation and not a whole lot about their filtration system. Also, it looks like ozone is not standard on any of the models. Am I missing something?

I cannot speak from from experience as I have never owned a Jacuzzi but recently we stopped and looked at Jacuzzi's because a dealer happened to be in the same mall we were shopping at. They do look very nice. The only thing that caught me as odd is when we asked the salesperson if he could open the front panel so that we could see inside. He refused. Since we really weren't seriously looking to purchase one we didn't push it. Upon further looking at previous posts on this forum I ran across a member who posted pics of their Jacuzzi inside. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6692

[Pathfinder]

RobW, here's some pics of a Jacuzzi equipment area with foam& minus Ozone and some pics of the filtration area. Personal choice J-365 is the most comfortable in the 300 series. I took these while visiting a friend who manages a Jacuzzi store.

[Jallenhood]

Trying to decide between a Caldera Geneva and a Sundance Cameo here, we also wet tested a Jacuzzi J470(liked it) but the dealer wanted more than the Sundance dealer did for the Optima/Cameo. In fact the model you are looking at, the J355 was qouted to us at 10k, which is $1,500 more than the Caldera and the same as the Sundance Optima/Cameo.

Our wet testing experience had the Jacuzzi ( we wet tested a J480) behind the other 2 brands. Not by a large margin though. I primarily did not like the lounger as it was just to small for me to feel comfortable in ( I am 6'3"), whereas the other loungers fit me nicely. Also the foot dome in the Jacuzzi did not feel as nice as the one in the Sundance Maxxus we tested. Nothing major to pick at, but when coupled with a price disparity, little things rule the day.

[TravelingSpaGuy]

I cannot speak from from experience as I have never owned a Jacuzzi but recently we stopped and looked at Jacuzzi's because a dealer happened to be in the same mall we were shopping at. They do look very nice. The only thing that caught me as odd is when we asked the salesperson if he could open the front panel so that we could see inside. He refused. Since we really weren't seriously looking to purchase one we didn't push it. Upon further looking at previous posts on this forum I ran across a member who posted pics of their Jacuzzi inside. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Being a sales person, customers asking to see the inside of a spa is the most annoying thing I have ever had to deal with, no matter how nice the inside is we have no idea why the customers want to see the inside and have a feeling most customers have no idea why they want to see it other then pretending they can uncover something about that spa by seeing the inside. A person asking to see the inside having no intention of buying a spa (because im paid commish not salary or hourly) and doing work for no reason even after I open the spa seems dumb...I understand that salesperson.

[meriflower]

I cannot speak from from experience as I have never owned a Jacuzzi but recently we stopped and looked at Jacuzzi's because a dealer happened to be in the same mall we were shopping at. They do look very nice. The only thing that caught me as odd is when we asked the salesperson if he could open the front panel so that we could see inside. He refused. Since we really weren't seriously looking to purchase one we didn't push it. Upon further looking at previous posts on this forum I ran across a member who posted pics of their Jacuzzi inside. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Being a sales person, customers asking to see the inside of a spa is the most annoying thing I have ever had to deal with, no matter how nice the inside is we have no idea why the customers want to see the inside and have a feeling most customers have no idea why they want to see it other then pretending they can uncover something about that spa by seeing the inside. A person asking to see the inside having no intention of buying a spa (because im paid commish not salary or hourly) and doing work for no reason even after I open the spa seems dumb...I understand that salesperson.

Sorry to the OP for sidetracking here...TravelingSpaGuy, I guess I don't see your point. If you were spending thousands of dollars on an item, be it a spa, car or whatever, wouldn't you want to see exactly what you are getting? Perhaps a customer may or may not know exactly what they are looking for. A good salesperson would open up the spa and educate their customer by explaining what to look for when you are looking at the equipment compartment of a spa. I can tell you why the Jacuzzi salesperson did not want to open it up. He just got done telling us that all the parts are "exclusive and proprietary, made by Jacuzzi" which in fact they are not, the motors for instance are manufactured by Emerson. I believe Jacuzzi at one time did make their own pumps but not anymore. We may not be purchasing now but what about the future? What about giving a recommendation to friends & family who may be in the market for one?

[NoVA Spa Novice]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond! After all of the research and "back and forth" on which manufacturer, which model, etc. we ended up ordering (this evening) the Jacuzzi J-470! When all was said and done, I believe we received a "reasonable" price, which included the following: tub, delivery/installation, Covermate 3, lifter, steps, the ProClear Ozonator, ProTemp in-house thermometer, and 2 chemical start-up kits (which I am told is approx. a 6-mo. supply)...all for $10,484.00 (before sales tax)...we've been told that it should take no more then 4 weeks to arrive from CA (possibly as early as 3), and construction on our deck/patio is scheduled to begin on Monday, and be completed by Labor Day weekend, so if everything comes together as planned, we'll be soaking within the next month or so! Anyway, again, thanks to everyone who responded to my initial post, and good luck if you're searching for a tub yourself...

[Rob W]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond! After all of the research and "back and forth" on which manufacturer, which model, etc. we ended up ordering (this evening) the Jacuzzi J-470! When all was said and done, I believe we received a "reasonable" price, which included the following: tub, delivery/installation, Covermate 3, lifter, steps, the ProClear Ozonator, ProTemp in-house thermometer, and 2 chemical start-up kits (which I am told is approx. a 6-mo. supply)...all for $10,484.00 (before sales tax)...we've been told that it should take no more then 4 weeks to arrive from CA (possibly as early as 3), and construction on our deck/patio is scheduled to begin on Monday, and be completed by Labor Day weekend, so if everything comes together as planned, we'll be soaking within the next month or so! Anyway, again, thanks to everyone who responded to my initial post, and good luck if you're searching for a tub yourself...

Congratulations! Should be a nice one! My deck is in progress and should be completed in the next 2 weeks. Hopefully I'll be able to announce my decision soon also

[tony]

Sorry to the OP for sidetracking here...TravelingSpaGuy, I guess I don't see your point. If you were spending thousands of dollars on an item, be it a spa, car or whatever, wouldn't you want to see exactly what you are getting? Perhaps a customer may or may not know exactly what they are looking for. A good salesperson would open up the spa and educate their customer by explaining what to look for when you are looking at the equipment compartment of a spa. I can tell you why the Jacuzzi salesperson did not want to open it up. He just got done telling us that all the parts are "exclusive and proprietary, made by Jacuzzi" which in fact they are not, the motors for instance are manufactured by Emerson. I believe Jacuzzi at one time did make their own pumps but not anymore. We may not be purchasing now but what about the future? What about giving a recommendation to friends & family who may be in the market for one?

Jacuzzi (and Sundance) use proprietary pumps. A pump is comprised of the wet end and the motor. The wet ends are manufactured for Jacuzzi by someone else to their specifications. All pumps use motors from a handfull of manufacturers such as Emerson or AO Smith. When Jacuzzi purchased Sundance the Jacuzzi spas were manufactured in Sundance's factory with specs close to Sundance spas and the same main components.

FWIW, I wouldn't purchase a spa without looking inside. The inside of my 2002 Sundance looks almost identical to the picture of the inside of the Jacuzzi above.

[East TX Spa]

Good Lord!

Opening a spa so a customer can see inside is about the most work a spa salesman actually does (which I can attest ain't much). If a customer wants to see inside a spa, you bet your buttcrack I'll open it up for him. I always leave one spa cabinet open anyway so folks can see inside, but I'll open every single one if that's what the customer wants. It takes almost 1 minute to do it, then I can go back to drinking Shiner Bock!

Terminator

[Stevie]

Good Lord!

Opening a spa so a customer can see inside is about the most work a spa salesman actually does (which I can attest ain't much). If a customer wants to see inside a spa, you bet your buttcrack I'll open it up for him. I always leave one spa cabinet open anyway so folks can see inside, but I'll open every single one if that's what the customer wants. It takes almost 1 minute to do it, then I can go back to drinking Shiner Bock!

Terminator

I can't think of reason why I wouldn't? It's takes no time at all and just like most people have no clue about engines, most guys still wanna see under the hood of the car they're buying. Some salespeople just are lazy I guess.

If a salesman refused to open the door of the spa, I can tell you I wouldn't buy there and I'll tell you why. My thought is that either he's trying to hide a poor aspect of his spas and/or these people just aren't very accomodating and if I needed something from them in the future (ie service, advise, etc.) I could expect the same attitude. No thanks...

I can't believe in the days of heavy competition where someone can go a block away that someone would refuse to assist the customer and not help them in buying ANY way they could. That would be the last sales presentation of one of my salespeople if that happened.

Steve

[rangerfaninva]

Thanks to all who took the time to respond! After all of the research and "back and forth" on which manufacturer, which model, etc. we ended up ordering (this evening) the Jacuzzi J-470! When all was said and done, I believe we received a "reasonable" price, which included the following: tub, delivery/installation, Covermate 3, lifter, steps, the ProClear Ozonator, ProTemp in-house thermometer, and 2 chemical start-up kits (which I am told is approx. a 6-mo. supply)...all for $10,484.00 (before sales tax)...we've been told that it should take no more then 4 weeks to arrive from CA (possibly as early as 3), and construction on our deck/patio is scheduled to begin on Monday, and be completed by Labor Day weekend, so if everything comes together as planned, we'll be soaking within the next month or so! Anyway, again, thanks to everyone who responded to my initial post, and good luck if you're searching for a tub yourself...

NoVA, since I am in Fairfax, VA, I am interested in who you have doing your deck/concrete pad. Also, if it isn't too personal could you tell me how much that is going to cost you? Any particular dealers that were more personable than others? Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks....

[old guy]

Our wet testing experience had the Jacuzzi ( we wet tested a J480) behind the other 2 brands. Not by a large margin though. I primarily did not like the lounger as it was just to small for me to feel comfortable in ( I am 6'3"), whereas the other loungers fit me nicely.

We wet tested the J480 too.

I found the lounger calf jets to be so weak that they are useless.

The lounger foot jets just hit your heels, which is not where you want a foot message. You want the jets to hit the instep at least, preferrably the balls of your feet.

However, the lounger was truly a no float lounger. Neither my wife nor I tended to even come close to floating out.

I too noticed that the lounger seemed short.

By comparison, the Artesian Pelican Bay lounger levitated me with the power of its jets, but the elbow rests keep me from floating out. I could almost fall asleep in the Pelican Bay lounger.

old guy