Need Large Entertainment Spa: Recommendations?

[gillman]

Now that is a tree hugging perplexing pestamistic perfect perspective that produces plentiful painful pragmatic problems.

It sounds like you better stop eating paint chips and put your helmet back on.

[Brulan1]

Wow Mr. Gillman, that's great information and I appreciate you sharing it with us. I had my suspicions that it was a somewhat shady outfit, but I sure had no idea it was downright dirty.

I'm just going to have to go and see this for myself. I will certainly be in disguise as I have become too recognizable in the hot tub world and can no longer travel incognito due to my famousnesseness.

Terminator

Eager Ego Entity Enforms Easy gullible Enticers.

It sounds like you better stop eating paint chips and put your helmet back on.

I dont have a chin strap for that new Iso9000 deluxe helmet I just bought from Master Helmet Custom Inc.

[gillman]

I had my suspicions that it was a somewhat shady outfit, but I sure had no idea it was downright dirty.

They spent years lying to people and telling them they'd get all their money back in 3 years. They lied in their advertising by using the terms "Cash-back" and "Rebate" to refer to cashable vouchers - which they KNEW was illegal to do - and some dealers were even popped for those tactics.

Don't think for 1 second that, just because the CASH-BACK SCAM is over, that Master is suddenly going to give up their lying ways and start playing fair. It's not in their nature to do so.

Two things are for sure in this country right now:

1) If you want find examples of private industry that are failing miserably, just follow the labor unions.

2) If you want to find examples of lying, slimeball, and unethical sales tactics, just follow Master Spas.

[spa Dr.]

Most reasonable people agree that Master builds a nice spa

OK spa, bad people.

[Guzz]

That one's a little hard to conceal!

I'm just going for a walkabout on my day off to take a look at ALL the different spa brands available on the market. Since I've never set foot in any of my competitors' stores, I just think it would be interesting to see some Jacuzzis, Sundances, D-1's, Marquis, Masters, Artesians, Colemans, Phoenix Premiums, Sunbelts, Morgans, Aries, CalSpas, Bullfrawgs, Vitas, Hawkeyes, Calderas, Catalinas, Dynasties, Royals, Hydrospas, Gulf Coasts, Beachcombers, Arctics, Hydropools, SeaMonkies, Crawdaddies, and other brands that I haven't seen up close. I'm sure most, if not ALL of them, will surely be there.

I'll be sure to write about it for ya'll.

Terminator

Make sure to take some pictures of all those other spas to share with us, also be carefull not to give the cabinet a kick, it will wobble and bend inwards, it's not Everwood you know.

[Kreg]

They spent years lying to people and telling them they'd get all their money back in 3 years. They lied in their advertising by using the terms "Cash-back" and "Rebate" to refer to cashable vouchers - which they KNEW was illegal to do - and some dealers were even popped for those tactics.

Don't think for 1 second that, just because the CASH-BACK SCAM is over, that Master is suddenly going to give up their lying ways and start playing fair. It's not in their nature to do so.

Two things are for sure in this country right now:

1) If you want find examples of private industry that are failing miserably, just follow the labor unions.

2) If you want to find examples of lying, slimeball, and unethical sales tactics, just follow Master Spas.

It seems that everyone has it all figured out. Might as well put everyone associated w/ Master Spas #2 on the list right under UBL ( or OBL, never could understand where the U came from.) Give everyone a brake...maybe Master just sells more than you do and the only way you can compete is to BASH everyone even associated with them. Great idea, I am sure you won't alienate any customers that way. People don't want to hear about the spa or anything, they just want to hear your RANTS about bull@%*&.

Talk about deceiving advertising tactics, how about the HotSpring "Energy Guarantee." I'm sure Masco is doiling out power meters by the thousands to make sure all their customers aren't paying more than an "average" of $20-$30 a month, that way everyone can keep a meter for the 12 months in a year. By the way, isn't energy more expensive this year...How does HotSprings do it!!

Why don't you take some initiative and get with a Master Dealer, that way you could do a "spa show." Or maybe you don't want to put up the CA$H to compete head-to-head.

The sooner everyone in this industry realizes that the real competition is RVs, motorcycles, plasma TVs, boats, vacations, snowmobiles, etc. the sooner our industry can grow. It doesn't do anyone any good to denagrade your profession by BASHING your peers. If I was a customer reading this forum, I'd be scared as hell to do business with ANYONE in the industry after reading this.

[sharkman009]

It seems that everyone has it all figured out. Might as well put everyone associated w/ Master Spas #2 on the list right under UBL ( or OBL, never could understand where the U came from.) Give everyone a brake...maybe Master just sells more than you do and the only way you can compete is to BASH everyone even associated with them. Great idea, I am sure you won't alienate any customers that way. People don't want to hear about the spa or anything, they just want to hear your RANTS about bull@%*&.

Talk about deceiving advertising tactics, how about the HotSpring "Energy Guarantee." I'm sure Masco is doiling out power meters by the thousands to make sure all their customers aren't paying more than an "average" of $20-$30 a month, that way everyone can keep a meter for the 12 months in a year. By the way, isn't energy more expensive this year...How does HotSprings do it!!

Why don't you take some initiative and get with a Master Dealer, that way you could do a "spa show." Or maybe you don't want to put up the CA$H to compete head-to-head.

The sooner everyone in this industry realizes that the real competition is RVs, motorcycles, plasma TVs, boats, vacations, snowmobiles, etc. the sooner our industry can grow. It doesn't do anyone any good to denagrade your profession by BASHING your peers. If I was a customer reading this forum, I'd be scared as hell to do business with ANYONE in the industry after reading this.

You dont think that any of the promotions that Master Spas has offered could be taken as misleading? Are you going to compare the Energy gaurantee to the rebate program that Master was pushing? Im sure that there are dealers for Master spas that honestly do try to do a legitimate business but the manufacturer is responsible for a lot of the bad rep they have.

[Kreg]

You dont think that any of the promotions that Master Spas has offered could be taken as misleading? Are you going to compare the Energy gaurantee to the rebate program that Master was pushing? Im sure that there are dealers for Master spas that honestly do try to do a legitimate business but the manufacturer is responsible for a lot of the bad rep they have.

If Consumer's Promotions, Inc. duped doctors, car dealers, furniture dealers, boat dealers, and multiple spa manufacturers (according to Pool and Spa News), what makes you think that the blame lies with Master Spas?

[sharkman009]

If Consumer's Promotions, Inc. duped doctors, car dealers, furniture dealers, boat dealers, and multiple spa manufacturers (according to Pool and Spa News), what makes you think that the blame lies with Master Spas?

I challenge you to find ANY other spa manufacurer that was connected to that program. Pool and Spa news tiptoed around that one very nicely in (my opinion) trying not to step on any toes.

When you have a manufacturer pushing a program like that to their dealers and telling them we have had our attorneys check this program out and it is totally legit there is plenty of reason to blame them.

[Kreg]

I challenge you to find ANY other spa manufacurer that was connected to that program. Pool and Spa news tiptoed around that one very nicely in (my opinion) trying not to step on any toes.

When you have a manufacturer pushing a program like that to their dealers and telling them we have had our attorneys check this program out and it is totally legit there is plenty of reason to blame them.

I highly doubt that Master Spas would promote any program without having their attorneys look at it first. Fact is, some customers did get their money back, and the courts in Missouri ruled that Consumer's Promotions was to pay million$ back to the people they duped. Looks like most of you have made up your own minds though. Good thing our legal system doesn't work on rumor and enuendo.

[sharkman009]

I highly doubt that Master Spas would promote any program without having their attorneys look at it first. Fact is, some customers did get their money back, and the courts in Missouri ruled that Consumer's Promotions was to pay million$ back to the people they duped. Looks like most of you have made up your own minds though. Good thing our legal system doesn't work on rumor and enuendo.

I guess since you know so much about it you must have been at their dealers meeting in Mexico several years back where they were pushing this on dealers and telling them that exact thing. I'll tell you one thing if I happened to be one of the dealers that had listened to them I would be as ticked off at them as they guy that was making all remarks about them on this post. The other funny thing is they didnt learn their lesson when the news came out about this happening. Master decided to go somewhere where they thought know one knew about the scam and did a show down in Texas and tried to make the same offer to customers. This was AFTER the attorney general had seized the bank accounts of Consumer promotions and Master spa knew it. Now thats ethical.

[Kreg]

I guess since you know so much about it you must have been at their dealers meeting in Mexico several years back where they were pushing this on dealers and telling them that exact thing. I'll tell you one thing if I happened to be one of the dealers that had listened to them I would be as ticked off at them as they guy that was making all remarks about them on this post. The other funny thing is they didnt learn their lesson when the news came out about this happening. Master decided to go somewhere where they thought know one knew about the scam and did a show down in Texas and tried to make the same offer to customers. This was AFTER the attorney general had seized the bank accounts of Consumer promotions and Master spa knew it. Now thats ethical.

So we've gone from bashing Master to bashing a DEALER in Texas. It sure is a slippery slope. Master Spas, Inc. doesn't do spa shows...DEALERS do. If you are saying that the dealer that did that particular show is unethical, you may be correct. Unforunately, all we have is your word that that even happened. If it did happen, then I totally agree that it was wrong. Is Master the only manufacturer that has had a dealer turn out to be a scheister? I bet not. Don't convict the rest for a few bad apples.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

So we've gone from bashing Master to bashing a DEALER in Texas. It sure is a slippery slope. Master Spas, Inc. doesn't do spa shows...DEALERS do. If you are saying that the dealer that did that particular show is unethical, you may be correct. Unforunately, all we have is your word that that even happened. If it did happen, then I totally agree that it was wrong. Is Master the only manufacturer that has had a dealer turn out to be a scheister? I bet not. Don't convict the rest for a few bad apples.

That's where you seem to be in error. They have a traveling road show that is not run by the dealers but is set up by corporate.

[Kreg]

That's where you seem to be in error. They have a traveling road show that is not run by the dealers but is set up by corporate.

I would challenge you to substantiate that, because it is simply not true.

[sharkman009]

So we've gone from bashing Master to bashing a DEALER in Texas. It sure is a slippery slope. Master Spas, Inc. doesn't do spa shows...DEALERS do. If you are saying that the dealer that did that particular show is unethical, you may be correct. Unforunately, all we have is your word that that even happened. If it did happen, then I totally agree that it was wrong. Is Master the only manufacturer that has had a dealer turn out to be a scheister? I bet not. Don't convict the rest for a few bad apples.

I didnt bash a dealer in Texas so dont try putting words in my mouth. You are arguing about something that you dont have facts on! Your wrong when you say they dont do sells there are people high up in Master spas that do take spas around the country and do spa sales. It wasnt a dealer that did that sale it was Master spas. You must have totally missed the part where I said "Im sure there are some Master spa dealers out ther that are trying to do a legitimate business. How is that convicting the rest for a few bad apples?

I also noticed that you kind of skipped around the question of other manufacturers that were involved with that rebate scam.

[Kreg]

I didnt bash a dealer in Texas so dont try putting words in my mouth. You are arguing about something that you dont have facts on! Your wrong when you say they dont do sells there are people high up in Master spas that do take spas around the country and do spa sales. It wasnt a dealer that did that sale it was Master spas. You must have totally missed the part where I said "Im sure there are some Master spa dealers out ther that are trying to do a legitimate business. How is that convicting the rest for a few bad apples?

I also noticed that you kind of skipped around the question of other manufacturers that were involved with that rebate scam.

There was a Jacuzzi/Catalina dealer in my area that used the program.

[sharkman009]

There was a Jacuzzi/Catalina dealer in my area that used the program.

And what area would that be in?

That's where you seem to be in error. They have a traveling road show that is not run by the dealers but is set up by corporate.

And that road show sometimes even goes into some Master Spas dealers territories doing sales.

[Kreg]

And that road show sometimes even goes into some Master Spas dealers territories doing sales.

You've obviously drawn your own conclusions. If you choose not to believe me, that is your option. I won't lose any sleep over it.

[sharkman009]

You've obviously drawn your own conclusions. If you choose not to believe me, that is your option. I won't lose any sleep over it.

No I go off of facts to come to a conclusion. If you want to ignore the FACTS that I pointed out to you thats ok too.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

You've obviously drawn your own conclusions. If you choose not to believe me, that is your option. I won't lose any sleep over it.

I only choose not to believe you because you're not accurate. They MAY involve the dealers at the shows but that is a corporate traveling show.

[Kreg]

I only choose not to believe you because you're not accurate. They MAY involve the dealers at the shows but that is a corporate traveling show.

The word FACT is being used very loosely...The horse is dead, and I am done kicking it.

[sharkman009]

The word FACT is being used very loosely...The horse is dead, and I am done kicking it.

No its not dead yet but give it time that horse will die.

[Tyler]

Kreg, I didn't have time to read the entire thread. Are you saying that you are affiliated with Master?

The word FACT is being used very loosely...The horse is dead, and I am done kicking it.

[East TX Spa]

Why don't you take some initiative and get with a Master Dealer, that way you could do a "spa show." Or maybe you don't want to put up the CA$H to compete head-to-head.

Actually, there's no Master Spa dealer in the area, unless you consider a store 2 hours away to be local. Even if there were, we would NEVER want to have the impeccable reputation that we have cultivated locally for 21 years to be associated in ANY WAY, SHAPE, FASHION, OR FORM with a company of such questionable business ethics and practices.

However, we have "taken the initiative" and made arrangements to set up a tent sale across the street from the Pool and Spa Show and it will be advertised as a HotSpring Spa Sale. Should be a lot of fun!

Terminator

[Guzz]

Actually, there's no Master Spa dealer in the area, unless you consider a store 2 hours away to be local. Even if there were, we would NEVER want to have the impeccable reputation that we have cultivated locally for 21 years to be associated in ANY WAY, SHAPE, FASHION, OR FORM with a company of such questionable business ethics and practices.

However, we have "taken the initiative" and made arrangements to set up a tent sale across the street from the Pool and Spa Show and it will be advertised as a HotSpring Spa Sale. Should be a lot of fun!

Terminator

Sounds like a jolly good time will be had by all, would you like some assistance.