1st Time Buyer

[tcdckc]

OK, I'm a first-timer here, so please don't beat me up too much. I am hoping to get some honest, 3rd-party information/reviews on some spas that we are considering. This is our first spa purchase, although we've been considering it for many years. We've looked around at various suppliers, and also done quite a bit of research on the Net. However, it's hard to find a site where you can get some good, honest, detailed information. We have pretty much narrowed our choices to D1 and Caldera. We weeded out Hot Springs because we weren't impressed with the number or size of the jets. I am hoping that some of you can help me in the reliability/performance of these spas (or others that you may recommend).

We are leaning towards the D1 Diplomat over the Caldera Geneva. This is because of the dual lounge feature for wife and I (which Caldera doesn't offer), as well as the number and size of the jets (which are both greater than the Caldera). We aren't interested in stereos, goochie lights or other "fluff". We just want a good, reliable, cost-effective spa. They both appear to be well-made units, and it's very difficult to try and sort through the salesmen's claims that each of their units is the better spa. The price for the D1 is also considerably less ($8500 vs. $10,500).

So, does anyone have some honest info on these and/or other spas? We live in the Northbay area in California, and we are set on purchasing from someone who has a rep in our general area. Thank you very much in advance for any help you can give!

[Rob W]

OK, I'm a first-timer here, so please don't beat me up too much. I am hoping to get some honest, 3rd-party information/reviews on some spas that we are considering. This is our first spa purchase, although we've been considering it for many years. We've looked around at various suppliers, and also done quite a bit of research on the Net. However, it's hard to find a site where you can get some good, honest, detailed information. We have pretty much narrowed our choices to D1 and Caldera. We weeded out Hot Springs because we weren't impressed with the number or size of the jets. I am hoping that some of you can help me in the reliability/performance of these spas (or others that you may recommend).

We are leaning towards the D1 Diplomat over the Caldera Geneva. This is because of the dual lounge feature for wife and I (which Caldera doesn't offer), as well as the number and size of the jets (which are both greater than the Caldera). We aren't interested in stereos, goochie lights or other "fluff". We just want a good, reliable, cost-effective spa. They both appear to be well-made units, and it's very difficult to try and sort through the salesmen's claims that each of their units is the better spa. The price for the D1 is also considerably less ($8500 vs. $10,500).

So, does anyone have some honest info on these and/or other spas? We live in the Northbay area in California, and we are set on purchasing from someone who has a rep in our general area. Thank you very much in advance for any help you can give!

Hi. Welcome to the forum. I'm a new kid too but I've just been through the same as you. You'll find next to nothing out there as far as non-biased, third party information. The best you can do is search these forums for the models you're considering and try and sift through the BS. What you'll hear 9 times out of 10 (the other 1 will be a troll) is that you can't go wrong with either of those. I think I'll be going with the Caldera Tahitian, which is a slightly smaller version of the Geneva. BTW, I can get the Geneva here for $8500 with cover lifter included., but then again this isn't California (from where I have recently fled!) and no tax here! I don't have a Dimension dealer close by but from what I have gleaned, many might give a slight nod to the Dimension. Anyway, I'm sure you'll get some action here shortly. Good luck!

[Geneva User]

Hi, this is my first post here so I am a newbie at all this spa stuff. I just purchased a new spa (not delivered yet) and I did a google search for a Caldera Geneva review just to reinforce that I made a good decision when I found this forum. I was reading the thread started by Rob W titled "New Spa Purchase - Caldera, Marquis, Sundance, Oh no....not another what spa should I buy post!" and got quite a laugh from it. You guy's get pretty funny here! I wanted to post a comment to it, but it got shut down! Anyway, what I wanted to tell Rob W was that I just purchased a Caldera Geneva in Eugene Oregon, complete with cover, lift, steps, $50.00 worth of chemicals, delivery and set-up, and a $100.00 in store gift certificate for $7900.00. Oh yeah, and they even threw in a couple of glow in the dark ducks! I don't know how close you are on the Oregon Coast to Eugene Rob W, but you can wet test a Geneva or an Aspire there. I wet tested them both and I really liked the Geneva a lot better. You said you were thinking about the Tahitian. The Tahitian is the same size as the Aspire and I felt the Geneva had a lot more room in it, especially in the foot well area. It's also 2" deeper and I felt I could get my neck and shoulders under the water much better. I am 6', 250lbs. I dry tested the Tahitian which is basically identical to the Geneva except that it is the smaller size of the Aspire and I decided the Tahitian was just too small. It was very noticeable. You will be playing footsies with your guests in the Tahitian, there's that much difference. There was only $600.00 difference between the Tahitian and the Geneva, so I got the Geneva. It's an incredible and very powerful spa. I couldn't believe how much better my lower back felt after only spending 15 minutes in it. And I was hurting for weeks before I went in.! They're having their 21'st Anniversary Sale right now. The salesman told me that after August 1st the prices of all Caldera Spas will be going up 2 to $300.00. My Spa was reduced $700.00 for the sale and the $100.00 gift certificate was also part of the Anniversary Sale. If Eugene is not too far away from you, you might want to go wet test the Geneva and Aspire. If you like it, you won't get a better buy than right now.

[104 Degrees]

Wet test,wet test,wet test.

[Roger]

Wet test,wet test,wet test.

Both of those brands are well respected in the industry as leaders in inovation and longevity. Make sure you test out your choices if possible and make sure on the double loungers as they take up alot of room in a spa.

I to would give a slight nod to D1 over Caldera but have a vested interest in D1

[104 Degrees]

Wet test,wet test,wet test.

Both of those brands are well respected in the industry as leaders in inovation and longevity. Make sure you test out your choices if possible and make sure on the double loungers as they take up alot of room in a spa.

I to would give a slight nod to D1 over Caldera but have a vested interest in D1

Whats important to me is the neck jets in the caldera models that are being talked about.

Does D1 have this?? if so it will be the wet test and the better dealer to close this one.

John 104 degrees

[dpz]

OK, I'm a first-timer here, so please don't beat me up too much. I am hoping to get some honest, 3rd-party information/reviews on some spas that we are considering. This is our first spa purchase, although we've been considering it for many years. We've looked around at various suppliers, and also done quite a bit of research on the Net. However, it's hard to find a site where you can get some good, honest, detailed information. We have pretty much narrowed our choices to D1 and Caldera. We weeded out Hot Springs because we weren't impressed with the number or size of the jets. I am hoping that some of you can help me in the reliability/performance of these spas (or others that you may recommend).

We are leaning towards the D1 Diplomat over the Caldera Geneva. This is because of the dual lounge feature for wife and I (which Caldera doesn't offer), as well as the number and size of the jets (which are both greater than the Caldera). We aren't interested in stereos, goochie lights or other "fluff". We just want a good, reliable, cost-effective spa. They both appear to be well-made units, and it's very difficult to try and sort through the salesmen's claims that each of their units is the better spa. The price for the D1 is also considerably less ($8500 vs. $10,500).

So, does anyone have some honest info on these and/or other spas? We live in the Northbay area in California, and we are set on purchasing from someone who has a rep in our general area. Thank you very much in advance for any help you can give!

tcdckc,

I've had very good luck with D1. My first one is still going strong (but for a friend now) after 13 years, and I recently installed a Chairman II. I agree with you...to my body...I think they have the best jet placement and water motion (I really like their spinning jets and I have put those in most of the seats, since their jets are easily swapable). I also agree that extra waterfalls, stereos, tv's, etc. are all one more thing to break down, and offer minimal enhancement to the spa therapy.

I live in the Bay Area and have visiting most of the dealers right around the Bay during the two purchases. We have had very good luck with the D1 Dealer in Dublin. They've been around for 25 years, and they are a large volume dealer, so they tend to negotiate very good pricing. The dealer in Berkeley also seemed pretty good, and they have been around for a long time, too.

I think you are right to focus on buying from a good dealer. After all, they will be the one to maintain your spa if it needs repairs. If you ever have a serious issue, they will be your best advocate to the factory. (That's where sales volume can help swing a decision in your favor).

The other thing to focus on is serious wet testing. While his and her loungers sound nice, I'm guessing that you won't fit in hers. That really leaves you with two 'therapy' seats, since the one between the corners don't tend to have as much jetting. So, you'll want to make sure that you can get all the spots in your back and legs with the seats that you can get in. We had my sister-in-law and her husband over last night. They are both shorter (she's 5', he's 5'7'), as is my wife (5'2"), yet they fit fine in our lounger (except for the foot jets) which also fits me fine (6'). It really comes down to geometry. Since each tub has slightly different geometry, I'd recommend wet testing any you are considering. That said....if she really, really loves her lounger in the Diplomat...then I'd recommend that you go with that one...

If you go the D1 route, I'd also suggest the white Ultralife surface. I find it softer and more comfortable than the acrylic/fiberglass surfaces. Also, since its a little flexible, its also less likely to get a crack,which is why it has a longer warranty.

[Rob W]

Geneva User.....congratulations on your new spa! Unfortunately, I'm about 2.5 hrs from Eugene although we will be taking my Dad to a doctor's appt there soon. Maybe I'll check it out. Do you have any opinion on the neck jets? That feature could be a deciding factor for us.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

tcdckc,

Good choices but just be sure you're really wanting a double lounge spa. There is a reason there are so very few double lounge spas out there. Wet testing is important with any spa but especially with a lounge spa and if it is a double lounge I'd almost say you should never buy a double lounge spa without wet testing first. Lounges look great dry but they don't work for everyone and take up noticeable real estate and with a double lounger its doubly true. If you or your wife don't like the lounges after you get the spa (and that is a real possibility) then that's moe than half the spa that's unusable to you.

[tcdckc]

Thanks to everyone who has replies so far. We are planning on wet testing in the next couple of days. I know that's the best way to see exactly how the spa fits you as a user. It sounds like either of these spas are seen as pretty good quality, which is nice to hear. As a first time buyer, it's all very confusing and diffcult to decifer all of the info. Thanks again, and feel free to give more info.

[Geneva User]

Geneva User.....congratulations on your new spa! Unfortunately, I'm about 2.5 hrs from Eugene although we will be taking my Dad to a doctor's appt there soon. Maybe I'll check it out. Do you have any opinion on the neck jets? That feature could be a deciding factor for us.

The Geneva is part of the Caldera Utopia series which is Caldera's most therapeutic system. It includes the "Atlas Neck Massage System" which is unique in that it has a special wrap around pillow that projects out from the tub and really helps hold you in place. There are four jets that as a group can be controlled independently so you can adjust as much power as you want. There are two jets under the water directly behind your neck and two jets above the water that aim down directly on your shoulders on each side of your neck. The in-water jets definitely felt more powerful, but the out-of-water jets did a nice, yet softer job relaxing the muscles on each side of the neck. I wasn't having any neck issues when I went in, so I can't say it helped improve any problems. But it did feel very nice and relaxing. And I really liked the way the pillow felt.

If it's the neck area that is of the most concern, I would really recommend the Geneva over the Tahitian (which is also a part of the Utopia series) because the extra 2" of depth will really be appreciated.

[104 Degrees]

Geneva User.....congratulations on your new spa! Unfortunately, I'm about 2.5 hrs from Eugene although we will be taking my Dad to a doctor's appt there soon. Maybe I'll check it out. Do you have any opinion on the neck jets? That feature could be a deciding factor for us.

The Geneva is part of the Caldera Utopia series which is Caldera's most therapeutic system. It includes the "Atlas Neck Massage System" which is unique in that it has a special wrap around pillow that projects out from the tub and really helps hold you in place. There are four jets that as a group can be controlled independently so you can adjust as much power as you want. There are two jets under the water directly behind your neck and two jets above the water that aim down directly on your shoulders on each side of your neck. The in-water jets definitely felt more powerful, but the out-of-water jets did a nice, yet softer job relaxing the muscles on each side of the neck. I wasn't having any neck issues when I went in, so I can't say it helped improve any problems. But it did feel very nice and relaxing. And I really liked the way the pillow felt.

If it's the neck area that is of the most concern, I would really recommend the Geneva over the Tahitian (which is also a part of the Utopia series) because the extra 2" of depth will really be appreciated.

Watch the caldera video. it tells the story.

104 degrees

[Geneva User]

Watch the caldera video. it tells the story.

104 degrees

I will. I can't wait! They had to order it for us since they didn't have the color we wanted in stock. It should take about two weeks to arrive.

[104 Degrees]

I will. I can't wait! They had to order it for us since they didn't have the color we wanted in stock. It should take about two weeks to arrive.

Ernie

You bought the caldera?? did you wet test it???

[Geneva User]

You bought the caldera?? did you wet test it???

Yes I did. I really liked it. My lower back had been hurting for weeks. After using the lower back therapy seat, I got out feeling great!

It's a nice size too. Plenty of room for guests and very comfortable seats. I am really sold on Caldera's "Circuit Therapy" system. Each seat targets a specific body area. It sure worked for my lower back. After trying all the different seating areas, I could tell that a lot of thought went into the placement and type of jets used for each seat.

I'll know better after I have it a while. I get plenty of aches and pains, so I'll be able to evaluate how well each target zone works over time.

[Rob W]

Yes I did. I really liked it. My lower back had been hurting for weeks. After using the lower back therapy seat, I got out feeling great!

It's a nice size too. Plenty of room for guests and very comfortable seats. I am really sold on Caldera's "Circuit Therapy" system. Each seat targets a specific body area. It sure worked for my lower back. After trying all the different seating areas, I could tell that a lot of thought went into the placement and type of jets used for each seat.

I'll know better after I have it a while. I get plenty of aches and pains, so I'll be able to evaluate how well each target zone works over time.

Did you wet test any others?

[Geneva User]

Yes I did. I really liked it. My lower back had been hurting for weeks. After using the lower back therapy seat, I got out feeling great!

It's a nice size too. Plenty of room for guests and very comfortable seats. I am really sold on Caldera's "Circuit Therapy" system. Each seat targets a specific body area. It sure worked for my lower back. After trying all the different seating areas, I could tell that a lot of thought went into the placement and type of jets used for each seat.

I'll know better after I have it a while. I get plenty of aches and pains, so I'll be able to evaluate how well each target zone works over time.

Did you wet test any others?

No. I have been in about a dozen other spas at friends homes and other establishments though, and this was by far the best I have been in. But I didn't go around to the different spa stores and wet test. I was more concerned with reliability, energy efficiency, longevity, and a reasonable price. This spa dealership came highly recommended from a friend who purchased a Caldera from them years ago and has been very happy with it and them. Other friends with spas have had their share of problems over the years. I don't have time for problems. I just want a spa that works for years and years. I did some research on the internet for the best spas for 2007 and found Caldera to be among the best, especially in energy efficiency. From what I could find, they seem to be very reliable also. And they also have a very good warranty. I really liked the salesperson. He was very informative and not pushy at all. I looked around at other spa stores, but I kept coming back to Caldera. After wet testing the Geneva I felt I had found a great spa that would work well for me for years to come. It met all the criteria I was after and actually surpassed the comfort and "feel good" factor I was expecting.

I probably should have done more wet testing, but I didn't feel the need to continue on after testing this one.

[104 Degrees]

[

Yes I did. I really liked it. My lower back had been hurting for weeks. After using the lower back therapy seat, I got out feeling great!

It's a nice size too. Plenty of room for guests and very comfortable seats. I am really sold on Caldera's "Circuit Therapy" system. Each seat targets a specific body area. It sure worked for my lower back. After trying all the different seating areas, I could tell that a lot of thought went into the placement and type of jets used for each seat.

I'll know better after I have it a while. I get plenty of aches and pains, so I'll be able to evaluate how well each target zone works over time.

Thats sweet congatulations!!!!! Please let us know how the neck jets are. do they really work or not. I'm looking at the sundance cameo or the Caldera. i would like to start selling spas and would love to sell what i use.

104 degrees john. you have it made now!! you lucky dog

[104 Degrees]

Ernie

Please also let me know how you like the lounger. You lucky Dog you!!

104 degrees, john

[Newbie4Now]

"Piling on"

Congratulations on getting a tub (!)

Please consider staying on here for the long haul and sharing your experience (AS AN OWNER)

now that you've overcome the significant hurdles of CHOOSING A BRAND and MAKING THE DECISION

Heaven knows these are both significant milestones for anyone coming in "cold."

/ Happy Tubbin'

[Geneva User]

Ernie

Please also let me know how you like the lounger. You lucky Dog you!!

104 degrees, john

john, When we first set out to get a spa, my wife and I had no desire to have a lounger because from our experience in other spa's, all you did was fight to keep from floating. The salesperson assured us that the new spa loungers are much improved over the old ones. You sit in a much deeper seating position and the leg ramp has notches in a couple of different positions to hook your heels into. I was pretty much set on the Niagara being the spa I would end up liking, but after wet testing the lounge in the Geneva I decided the salesperson was right. I didn't have to fight floating, the position was very relaxing, the back and neck jets felt great, and the foot jets felt incredible! Time will tell, but I think I will probably be spending a lot of time in this position. This could be the spot I mount the drink caddy to hold my beer.

[Geneva User]

"Piling on"

Congratulations on getting a tub (!)

Please consider staying on here for the long haul and sharing your experience (AS AN OWNER)

now that you've overcome the significant hurdles of CHOOSING A BRAND and MAKING THE DECISION

Heaven knows these are both significant milestones for anyone coming in "cold."

/ Happy Tubbin'

Thanks! And I will. I find forums like this invaluable. I enjoy sharing information good and bad with others. It helps us all make wiser decisions. These are big purchases for most of us. And if it hadn't been for the efforts of others, I wouldn't have come to the decision I did.

[Geneva User]

Thats sweet congatulations!!!!! Please let us know how the neck jets are. do they really work or not. I'm looking at the sundance cameo or the Caldera. i would like to start selling spas and would love to sell what i use.

104 degrees john. you have it made now!! you lucky dog

Thanks john! I'll keep you posted on what I think of the neck jets over time.

I took a look at the Cameo online and I must say it looks like it has a very nice lounger. I like the two arm rests with the hand massagers there. And it appears to be nice and deep as well. A couple of things I noticed about it that I didn't like however was that it didn't have a neck therapy station like the Geneva does, and it lacks the "foot ridge" in the foot well that gives your feet something to lock onto to help keep you snug into the seat as well as help you keep your feet to yourself instead of floating freely and sliding around as they do in a flat foot welled tub. Also, I noticed the CD Ozone system was an option on the Cameo. It is standard on the Geneva.

Just a few things to add to your checklist as you wet test and search for the perfect tub.

Funny you should mention about wanting to sell spas that you believe in. I was thinking the same thing as I was purchasing my Caldera! If I end up really liking this company, I wouldn't mind selling them myself! But I couldn't sell anything that I didn't believe in.

[104 Degrees]

[

Funny you should mention about wanting to sell spas that you believe in. I was thinking the same thing as I was purchasing my Caldera! If I end up really liking this company, I wouldn't mind selling them myself! But I couldn't sell anything that I didn't believe in.

Watkins seems to have a great rep in the spa buiss.ive been looking to sell spas for a while now. i love the nordic company and its people but with the new big and fancy "junk tubs" coming out of costco and the like it will be hard to sell then(same price). i think id rather sell High dollar quality tubs with seats that really help you feel better.

Please let me know when you get it i'll send you a keg of beer and you will only need to mount a holder for the tap

You lucky Dog You

John 104 degrees

[Trigger]

...

We are leaning towards the D1 Diplomat over the Caldera Geneva. This is because of the dual lounge feature for wife and I (which Caldera doesn't offer), as well as the number and size of the jets (which are both greater than the Caldera). We aren't interested in stereos, goochie lights or other "fluff". We just want a good, reliable, cost-effective spa. They both appear to be well-made units, and it's very difficult to try and sort through the salesmen's claims that each of their units is the better spa. The price for the D1 is also considerably less ($8500 vs. $10,500).

I own a Caldera Geneva and am very happy with it. I've heard very good things about the D1 line of tubs. Bottom line: Wet Test.

On the Geneva, some of the featrues i like: The air blower. This is nice feature, and in the summer helps cool the water. I also like that the floor has a ridge in it. This helps you push back into the seats if you have the jets on full. I like the wrists jets as well. Overall, I think the Geneva has a nice variety of jets and seating. The trim package (the lights,standar ozone, the SS jets, the extra control pad, the skirt lights) are also nice touch, FWIW.

Take a wet test and decide for yourself. The dual lounger on the D1 certainly is "unique", if you are in love with loungers, than this might be an option (Most people are hesitant if they even want ONE, but 2?!?!? ) Can both loungers operate on full at the same time (please tell me they plumbed it that way). I think having 2 loungers eats up a lot of realestate in the tub, and even though the specs say seats "5", I doubt you could put more than 3 adults in it at one time. The geneva has one lounger and for therapy me wife and I rotate through the seats and that works great. When company comes over for a social soak, the lounger gets in the way.

Wet Test. In my biased opinion and looking at the layout, I think the Geneva has it all over the D1. Better seating, better layout, and more options.