New Spa Purchase - Caldera, Marquis, Sundance

[Rob W]

Hi....new guy here Just moved to the Oregon Coast and having a new house built and looking at spas. Problem here is with the lower population there are less choices and limited wet-testing. I've done a lot of research so I know I'm looking at decent brands. I guess I just need some positive reinforcement before pulling the trigger Although cost isn't a huge issue, there is a limit as to how much I would be willing to spend for a spa. My tolerance level is about $8000 give or take a few $, anything above that just seems a little extravagant.

There is a local Marquis dealer with wet-testing available. We went there and looked and were pretty impressed. Their prices seem firm and did not include anything but delivery and set-up. I was quoted:

Wet floor model Reward w/ sound $9195 - New $9195 w/out sound

Wet floor model Quest w/MP160 motor upgrade, last years - $6895 - New $7495

They don't seem to have many options < or = $8000 unless you drop down to the 530/630 Ultimates or go with the Quest which is the bottom of the Luxury line. I've heard a lot of positives about the HK40 jets though.

The Caldera dealer had a lower overhead business going with no fancy showroom, no wet testing (we did test an over-filled Moorea at his bed and breakfast), but he had great pricing.

Everything in the entire line was $8500 and under brand new, except the top of the line Elation w/ music which was $9100. I like the fact that the GFCI is included.

We were quoted:

Dry 2006 floor model Aspire (w/music) - $8000 - New $8500

Dry 2006 floor model Geneva - $8000 - New $8500

New Tahitian - $8000

New Martinique - $6300

I 'like' the Tahitian alot but would be unable to wet-test. All included cover lifter,ozone and free set-up/delivery.

The local Sundance dealer is a plumbing supply store, no wet-testing, very little knowledge, curb-side delivery only, everything is extra it seems and firm pricing.

New Marin - $7995 + about $500 for cover lifter and ozone

New Altamar - $8495 + $500

I notice Marquis doesn't list their jet pump HP, just GPM (they are the only ones that do this). They have 1.5HP pumps vs 2.5 on the Sundance and Caldera. Why do they try and hide this? You'd think they'd market it as an advantage, unless it's really not. Also Marquis uses UV ozone vs CD in the Sundance and Caldera. The Caldera and Sundance have the dedicated circ pump. Not sure if any of this is all that meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, without being able to wet-test except for Marquis, I'm pretty much at the mercy of what I read and the opinion of others.

I'm leaning towards the Caldera Tahitian ($8000).

The Sundance Marin ($8500) looks very interesting.

I like the Marquis Reward ($9195) but at over $1000 more than the Caldera not sure it's worth it. The Quest ($6895) is attractively priced but only has the one 1.5HP pump for all duties and a lower jet count.

Any thoughts or opinions? I can also look at Jacuzzi locally but no wet-test either. Should I even consider Jacuzzi over the others? Should I consider the Quest compared to the others?

Appreciate you thoughts.

[Spamaster101]

HP ratings are meaningless in the spa industry, that is why Marquis tells the actually output of the pump. It does not sound like they are trying hide anything, sounds like they are the only ones being up front with you.

The HP rating does not equate to a flow rating.

The other ones must have something to hide.

[Rob W]

HP ratings are meaningless in the spa industry, that is why Marquis tells the actually output of the pump. It does not sound like they are trying hide anything, sounds like they are the only ones being up front with you.

The HP rating does not equate to a flow rating.

The other ones must have something to hide.

Well, it seems to me they would go out of their way to 'expose' all of the competition if that were the case. Why don't they use it as a marketing tool. More efficient, cost-savings, etc. If GPM were a more valid measurement you'd think at least one other manufacturer would mention it. It just seems funny to me.

[Spamaster101]

Why would it seem funny to you, they state exactly what the pump will do. A HP rating does not do that.

[Pathfinder]

Marquis uses Aqua-flo pumps either the xp2 or xp3

just check out the Aqua-flo website is you want full specs.

[Rob W]

Why would it seem funny to you, they state exactly what the pump will do. A HP rating does not do that.

Oh geez.....my first post and I've got myself into an argument already Quick....somebody throw me a lifejacket!

Actually, the reason was stated in my last post. But to add to that, it seems funny because the standard seems to be just the opposite...to list pump HP....that's all. I just get the feeling that, regardless of which rating is more meaningful, they do it because they use lower HP pumps than the competition and maybe because the misguided perceptions of us ignorant buyers is that more HP is better?... so they get around that by using a different measurement? Just a guess of course. And, like I said previously (in my last post), I would think they would want to use that to their advantage. You know, explain why they use that measurement vs HP? That way, us spa-challenged buyers wouldn't have to scratch our heads and ask stupid questions in these forums and wonder "Gee... I wonder why they use that measurement and everybody else doesn't?" To me that is......."funny"

[Rob W]

Marquis uses Aqua-flo pumps either the xp2 or xp3

just check out the Aqua-flo website is you want full specs.

Thanks! It would be nice to be able to look up GPM on the others also to be able to compare apples to apples. They all seem to use proprietary names. You would certainly think, though, that all other things being fairly equal, more HP would mean greater flow. I just find it hard to believe that Marquis design is so much more efficient that they can use 1 whole HP less per pump than the competition and not mention this fact in their marketing. Kind of 'funny', for lack of a better term.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The only time I'd worry about HP is when some of these spa makers start listing Brake HP in order to inflate their numbers deceptively. With the three brands you're talking about I wouldn't worry too much about it.

What's with the curb-side delivery only from the Sundance dealer? I've never heard of such from a dealer of a major spa brand. I'd start to wonder about after sale service if they won't even deliver the spa to the back yard and set it up for you.

[Pathfinder]

Rob since Marquis is manufactured in Independence OR why dont you call them up and see if you can get a factory tour. Since your in the same state dont pass up the chance if you can.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Hi....new guy here Just moved to the Oregon Coast and having a new house built and looking at spas. Problem here is with the lower population there are less choices and limited wet-testing. I've done a lot of research so I know I'm looking at decent brands. I guess I just need some positive reinforcement before pulling the trigger Although cost isn't a huge issue, there is a limit as to how much I would be willing to spend for a spa. My tolerance level is about $8000 give or take a few $, anything above that just seems a little extravagant.

There is a local Marquis dealer with wet-testing available. We went there and looked and were pretty impressed. Their prices seem firm and did not include anything but delivery and set-up. I was quoted:

Wet floor model Reward w/ sound $9195 - New $9195 w/out sound

Wet floor model Quest w/MP160 motor upgrade, last years - $6895 - New $7495

They don't seem to have many options < or = $8000 unless you drop down to the 530/630 Ultimates or go with the Quest which is the bottom of the Luxury line. I've heard a lot of positives about the HK40 jets though.

The Caldera dealer had a lower overhead business going with no fancy showroom, no wet testing (we did test an over-filled Moorea at his bed and breakfast), but he had great pricing.

Everything in the entire line was $8500 and under brand new, except the top of the line Elation w/ music which was $9100. I like the fact that the GFCI is included.

We were quoted:

Dry 2006 floor model Aspire (w/music) - $8000 - New $8500

Dry 2006 floor model Geneva - $8000 - New $8500

New Tahitian - $8000

New Martinique - $6300

I 'like' the Tahitian alot but would be unable to wet-test. All included cover lifter,ozone and free set-up/delivery.

The local Sundance dealer is a plumbing supply store, no wet-testing, very little knowledge, curb-side delivery only, everything is extra it seems and firm pricing.

New Marin - $7995 + about $500 for cover lifter and ozone

New Altamar - $8495 + $500

I notice Marquis doesn't list their jet pump HP, just GPM (they are the only ones that do this). They have 1.5HP pumps vs 2.5 on the Sundance and Caldera. Why do they try and hide this? You'd think they'd market it as an advantage, unless it's really not. Also Marquis uses UV ozone vs CD in the Sundance and Caldera. The Caldera and Sundance have the dedicated circ pump. Not sure if any of this is all that meaningful in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, without being able to wet-test except for Marquis, I'm pretty much at the mercy of what I read and the opinion of others.

I'm leaning towards the Caldera Tahitian ($8000).

The Sundance Marin ($8500) looks very interesting.

I like the Marquis Reward ($9195) but at over $1000 more than the Caldera not sure it's worth it. The Quest ($6895) is attractively priced but only has the one 1.5HP pump for all duties and a lower jet count.

Any thoughts or opinions? I can also look at Jacuzzi locally but no wet-test either. Should I even consider Jacuzzi over the others? Should I consider the Quest compared to the others?

Appreciate you thoughts.

Stay far away from full foam. You will regret it.

[Richs100]

Stay far away from full foam. You will regret it.

Booga Booga.

[Rob W]

Stay far away from full foam. You will regret it.

Ummm....perhaps you missed the part that says "I've done a lot of research"? I've seen 'a million' of your posts.

[Newbie4Now]

Stay far away from full foam. You will regret it.

Ummm....perhaps you missed the part that says "I've done a lot of research"? I've seen 'a million' of your posts.

I've got a sudden urge to Welcome Rob W to the Pool & Spa Forum !

Great post !

[Rob W]

What's with the curb-side delivery only from the Sundance dealer? I've never heard of such from a dealer of a major spa brand. I'd start to wonder about after sale service if they won't even deliver the spa to the back yard and set it up for you.

It also boggles my mind. Evidently, this plumbing company is one of the few Sundance retailers in the entire region. California is right next door for crying out loud. You'd think they could do better than that. No service, no bargaining, no extras It's not like they're the only brand around here.

[Rob W]

Rob since Marquis is manufactured in Independence OR why dont you call them up and see if you can get a factory tour. Since your in the same state dont pass up the chance if you can.

No , that's OK I know they are one of the top brands. Actually, I would love to support the local economy and buy homegrown. Just not sure they are the right fit for me. The Caldera pricing makes it hard to resist. It seems to be way more bang for the buck. I really hate to buy a California product. I just moved from there to escape it all, but I'll try and put that aside for now

Hey Jim....go play in a snowdrift or something.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Rob since Marquis is manufactured in Independence OR why dont you call them up and see if you can get a factory tour. Since your in the same state dont pass up the chance if you can.

No , that's OK I know they are one of the top brands. Actually, I would love to support the local economy and buy homegrown. Just not sure they are the right fit for me. The Caldera pricing makes it hard to resist. It seems to be way more bang for the buck. I really hate to buy a California product. I just moved from there to escape it all, but I'll try and put that aside for now

Hey Jim....go play in a snowdrift or something.

Actually, they have degraded the product over the years. They seem to have a lot of shell cracks these days.

[Richs100]

Hey Jim....go play in a snowdrift or something.

Actually, they have degraded the product over the years. They seem to have a lot of shell cracks these days.

Hey Jim, I think you've got this pigeon right where you want him. Offer him some of those purdy flashing spa lights to close the deal!

[Mr. Bubbles]

Rob,

I just went to my local outlet of the plumbing store/Sundance dealer you mentioned, and all of their tubs were dry, outside under an overhang, with a layer of dust/dirt on their surface. Not very welcoming to a dry test (as we didn't want to get our clothes all dirty!), and if we wanted to wet test, we'd have to go to another store outlet. Also, they weren't very enthusiastic about the tubs.

Does anyone know how these prices are in the realm of Sundance tubs? Are Rob and I (since we're in the same basic region) getting a fair price quote?

Also, the Caldera price seems pretty good, as my local Caldera dealer has the Geneva and Tahitian for $9K, I believe.

Isn't hot tub/spa shopping/researching fun!

[Rob W]

Rob,

I just went to my local outlet of the plumbing store/Sundance dealer you mentioned, and all of their tubs were dry, outside under an overhang, with a layer of dust/dirt on their surface. Not very welcoming to a dry test (as we didn't want to get our clothes all dirty!), and if we wanted to wet test, we'd have to go to another store outlet. Also, they weren't very enthusiastic about the tubs.

Does anyone know how these prices are in the realm of Sundance tubs? Are Rob and I (since we're in the same basic region) getting a fair price quote?

Also, the Caldera price seems pretty good, as my local Caldera dealer has the Geneva and Tahitian for $9K, I believe.

Isn't hot tub/spa shopping/researching fun!

Yeah, I figured he was about $1000 lower based on what I've researched. Maybe worth a trip from Portland even

Also, my Sundance/plumber dealer experience was the same as yours. Some dirty spas out front and none from the 800 series. The guy had to look every spa price and accessory up on the computer.

[Jim_The_Jim]

Rob,

I just went to my local outlet of the plumbing store/Sundance dealer you mentioned, and all of their tubs were dry, outside under an overhang, with a layer of dust/dirt on their surface. Not very welcoming to a dry test (as we didn't want to get our clothes all dirty!), and if we wanted to wet test, we'd have to go to another store outlet. Also, they weren't very enthusiastic about the tubs.

Does anyone know how these prices are in the realm of Sundance tubs? Are Rob and I (since we're in the same basic region) getting a fair price quote?

Also, the Caldera price seems pretty good, as my local Caldera dealer has the Geneva and Tahitian for $9K, I believe.

Isn't hot tub/spa shopping/researching fun!

Caldera has like 7 real jets and 39 friggin bullet jets and three diverter valves. The pumps are cheap crap.

http://www.soundclick.com/havenhead

[Rob W]

Hey Jim, I think you've got this pigeon right where you want him. Offer him some of those purdy flashing spa lights to close the deal!

Actually, I am very partial to those

[Rob W]

Caldera has like 7 real jets and 39 friggin bullet jets and three diverter valves. The pumps are cheap crap.

When it says that you're an "Advanced Member" does that mean like advanced stage of dimentia or something?

[Jim_The_Jim]

Caldera has like 7 real jets and 39 friggin bullet jets and three diverter valves. The pumps are cheap crap.

When it says that you're an "Advanced Member" does that mean like advanced stage of dimentia or something?

Once again, If you are going to be disappointed in buying a spa, why not be dissapointed an buy for between $4,000 and $6,000 savings.

Ask all of your friends, associates, employees, coworkers, church members about their spa disappointments and you will understand.

Go to Costco and save your money.

[Rob W]

Ask all of your friends, associates, employees, coworkers, church members about their spa disappointments and you will understand.

Go to Costco and save your money.

OK....you've convinced me...how about this one?

[Jim_The_Jim]

Ask all of your friends, associates, employees, coworkers, church members about their spa disappointments and you will understand.

Go to Costco and save your money.

OK....you've convinced me...how about this one?

That is a good value for a CHEAP SWIMMING POOL. I have plenty of customers who own them for their kids and enjoy them as swimming pools.