When Did This Happen?

[spa_repair_guy]

When did price take the place of quality and service in the average shopper's mindset?

When I was a kid we always made fun of Kmart. It was considered the insult of a shopper's decision such as, "Where'ja buy THAT ..... at Kmart?!"

Now it appears to have become a badge on honor to buy the cheapest thing that can be had.

A few days ago a lady asked me to add a new sweep to her pool. I quoted her $598 installed. Her home was an hour drive from my shop. The next day she called to tell me that she had found the same sweep for just over $400 online. She wanted to know why mine was more.

My thought (Are people that poorly schooled in the world of business?)

I explained that the cost differences were simple.

1) I own/operate and actual business with overhead of insurance, utilities, employees, taxes, etc.

2) I was installing it

3) I would be expected to warranty the item

4) I assume responsibility for workability of the sweep in the future

and

I didn't pretend to be a business while sitting unshaven in my bathrobe, eating Cheerios (smokin' cigarettes) and watching Cap'n kangaroo. I have a business that can't be closed by shutting down a website or turning off my cell phone.

Which all leads me to ask:

What happened to pride of ownership?

What happened to courage?

What happned to manners?

Whatever became of politeness?

What happened to our capacity to laugh at ourselves?

When did the political left lose its sense of humor?

When did we lose the ability to express ourselves in clean language?

but on a lighter politically incorrect side ... Would you fire me if I called Jim_The_Jim a "nappy headed ho"?

srg

[Chas]

Good points, good questions.

Thanks.

[ieremia]

I can see you are frustrated. I guess it's all about competitive pricing and the internet giving the average consumer much more reach. Most people will eventually weigh the savings of ordering something online from some internet mega-warehouse and buying from a local shop with real people that are there to backup their products.

That's not to say that you aren't going to lose some business to the consumer that is just looking to save a buck and sacrifice customer service. They will most likely be calling you in a year when the mega-warehouse disappears and the bargain-basement part they ordered directly and installed them self craps out on them.

Keep doing what you're doing SRG, some of us still appreciate your service.

[Trigger]

You should have told her that sure, for $400 plushshipping and handeing,you will mail the part to her. She will get it in about 2 weeks.

She can install it herself, and if she has any problems, she can take it off, pack it up and ship it back to you.

[waterbear]

Spa repair guy,

I understand exactly what you are talking about. We have customers that come in needing replacement parts or equipment, or have major water chemisty problems and we take a lot of time to help find solutions. We even tell them that we will match any price they find locally on equipment. Many of them then just leave and when they come in again we find that they have ordered equipment on the net and expect us to help them install it or that they have gone to Walmart to buy the chems we told them were needed (or just ignore what we say and come back in and wonder why they still have water problems). Luckily, there are the minority of our customers. It seems that some people just don't care about service because in today's society it has become the exception rather than the rule.

[JohnInSJ]

well I have done both (internet and B&M purchase)

Using the net to find a price, I understand that price *does not* include the excellent list in the original post. I kinda view that internet price (given I have done my homework) as representing the actual cost + maybe 2-5% markup, and can use that price as a guage vs a B&M price.

If the item in question is going to require my time to do what the B&M will do, and I view my time as more valuable then the cost difference, then guess what, I pay someone else (ie, buy the B&M version.) - ditto for support, etc...

Bottom line, I try to determine the value of the service of the B&M, and if it seems to be a good value, I'll give them my business.

And yeah, it seems unethical to use B&M knowledge without paying for it.

However, there are many times where the markup in a B&M is not at all in line with the services offered... for whatever reason.

It's just the way things are - we all have to adapt. I don't sell anything but my brain, and I'm competing with people in Inda, China, and South America for $$$ - I could make the same arguments, but that doesn't stop some companies from selecting the lower cost knowledge worker overseas. All I can do is attempt to provide more value for my personal "overhead".

[Trigger]

And what happens when you install the sweeper and you break it, or damage thier pool? What happens if the consumer while installs the sweeper breaks it or damages thier pool?

[Pathfinder]

It was the same way when I was growing up but back then they only sold cheap things. It wasnt until Walmarts started popping up everywhere and killed the specialty sector by offering similar items at a majorly reduced price. You could also say that with the major gap between well off & middle to lower class incomes the bigger better deal comes more into play with less expendable income available.

I consider myself lucky in my smaller city where it is mainly upper middle to high incomes where people still mainly want to deal with the specialty stores for high ticket items and service I rarely have to explain why my tubs are priced between 7 & 19 thousand and Home Depot tubs are the prices they are.

[waldorbigbill]

If we are against Cheap ass corporate spas. Does that mean we should settle for repackaged spas with a little extra foam and so call better parts then have price jack way up because of these extras? No thanks I'll stick with my Cheap ass corporate spas.

[thestallion]

Heres the real problem the manufactures who simply do not care as long it gets sold and in doing so are basically back stabbing the dealers who have created shelve/floor space for it and have taken the time to invest in a operation where someone can actually touch and feel the product. It is very short sighted if you ask me. I do feel dealers need to be fair and I think most are but a few lean to the side of being very high on items but a competitive market will keep most in line. Again I feel it is the manufactures who shoulder the bigger responsibility here.

[Johnny D]

I am not in the pool/spa business but I believe the principles apply. People confuse price with value. I provide value and charge accordingly. Good service by a competent professional who cares wins out every time in my book. I provide it and seek it out when I am the customer. I reward them with my business and give them referrals.

Maybe because this is less common, people view some things as commodities, therefore go for price alone. If I am buying toilet paper that's one thing. I would never download a will and do it yourself or treat myself medically. I want to buy a spa from a reputable dealer and I need him to make a profit so he will be there when I need him.

MOST OF THE TIME YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.

[thestallion]

Heres the real problem the manufactures who simply do not care as long it gets sold and in doing so are basically back stabbing the dealers who have created shelve/floor space for it and have taken the time to invest in a operation where someone can actually touch and feel the product. It is very short sighted if you ask me. I do feel dealers need to be fair and I think most are but a few lean to the side of being very high on items but a competitive market will keep most in line. Again I feel it is the manufactures who shoulder the bigger responsibility here.

Hummm I am surprised no one had a comment about this whether they agree or disagree with me.

[Aric]

When did price take the place of quality and service in the average shopper's mindset?

Perhaps when walmart took over all retail. Or maybe when expensive items like computers and DVD players which offer far more functionality than their equivalents did 10 years ago become disposable commodities.

When I was a kid we always made fun of Kmart. It was considered the insult of a shopper's decision such as, "Where'ja buy THAT ..... at Kmart?!"

Yep, I also grew up in a snobby neighborhood. I would be nice if we could get away from picking on people who are less fortunate.

Now it appears to have become a badge on honor to buy the cheapest thing that can be had.

America likes to haggle and bargain shop. If it didn't, garage sales wouldn't exist.

A few days ago a lady asked me to add a new sweep to her pool. I quoted her $598 installed. Her home was an hour drive from my shop. The next day she called to tell me that she had found the same sweep for just over $400 online. She wanted to know why mine was more.

That's a reasonable question for a consumer to ask. It also opened the door to offer her a 10% discount (if you wanted) to make her feel like she was getting a better deal than the average Joe which is all many consumers are looking for. In general, informed shoppers always expect to pay a little less than MSRP since they consider themselves a little better than the average person (I'm not average, I'm above average, therefore, I shouldn't pay an average price.) Is that an ok attitude to have? Maybe, I'm just saying a lot do.

My thought (Are people that poorly schooled in the world of business?)

No assume it's a bargaining tactict. Let's see how you handled it…

I explained that the cost differences were simple.

1) I own/operate and actual business with overhead of insurance, utilities, employees, taxes, etc.

Reasonable, however, she wasn't involved in choosing your business plan. I would push more, because I have a real store, you can get it sooner, don't have to worry about shipping, can return it/get support if needed which is all consumer benefits because you chose a brink and mortar business model, instead of discussing the financial negatives to owning a brick and mortar store.

2) I was installing it

Good. Can't argue with that. That's gotta' be worth real money to the customer, no question. This would've been my first response.

3) I would be expected to warranty the item

Yep. Would that mean coming out and replacing it? That would be another direct benefit to the consumer. If you would only allow the replacement of the item, the consumer could argue the web store would warranty the item to that extent. To me warranty the item simply means sending it DOA to the manuf. and giving out a new one, which the web store would do too. But if you mean traveling back out, and replacing it, that's a huge value add to the consumer.

4) I assume responsibility for workability of the sweep in the future

Fare enough, but I've worked with local dealers who I've had to report to the State Attorney General just to get them to satisfy the originally workability of the item, so the consumer can't just assume you'll provide workability over the web based store

and

I didn't pretend to be a business while sitting unshaven in my bathrobe, eating Cheerios (smokin' cigarettes) and watching Cap'n kangaroo. I have a business that can't be closed by shutting down a website or turning off my cell phone.

This statement was the one that led me to reply. I know people who work for Amazon.com. Amazon.com sells some pool/spa equipment. The people I know who work there don't work under the conditions you described. More so, I've seen brick and mortar spa stores close up shop in a single day, where as Amazon.com would be hard pressed to simply disappear.

This last comment was the least rational. It sounds like you are jealous of people who are able to make money running legitimate businesses over the web. Was the price this person got quoted and from where, a reputable web site? I don't know but to make a generalization like that is pretty short sighted.

Which all leads me to ask:

What happened to pride of ownership?

I don't think most people feel this in general, and if so not about a sweeper in their pool. I do have pride when I get a good deal. Maybe people are becoming less materialistic. I peronsally have pride of ownership in my home theater equipment, and that's about it.

What happened to courage?

She had the courage to challenge your price and try to haggle you down. Is there other courage in a business negotiation?

What happened to manners?

Fair enough. The idea of haggling, in general is bad manners. I won't argue that. It has, however, become pretty normal. I've seen places like Best Buy and Sam's Club even mark things down when someone haggles (and I figured corporate places like that couldn't alter prices.) It's usually just 10% or so, but it is becoming more common. Poor manners, yeah, probably.

Whatever became of politeness?

Was she rude? Personally as a consumer I think I have the right to know dealer cost on anything I buy. Was she provided with that info? As an example, cars are expensive items we don't buy often. I can go on the internet, find MSRP and dealer invoice cost before I purchase the car so I know that info. I don't expect the dealer to sell the car to me without making any money so I know I'll pay over invoice (assuming there is no hold back or incentives involved) but I also don't expect the dealer to make the large MSRP profit off of my sale either. Most car salespeople I know tell me they make most of their money off of one or two sales where the consumer is uninformed and they don't negotiate any discounts. I don't want to be that person they brag about over a been the next night.

Perhaps the tactics of car salespeople have spoiled it for everyone in the reatil business.

Consumers looking for spas are at more of a disadvantage because they don't have an easy resource of finding out invoice costs. Is it rude to ask dealer cost? I don't think so. Is it rude to ask for a price less than MSRP? I don't think so.

I have no problem with someone making a profit off of me. They should make a profit off of every sale. However, I do think I have a right to know how much they are making off of me and possibly negotiate that. Buying something is a business transaction with some contractual obligations. It seems like in a business relationship you should be able to ask for information without being thought of as rude.

What happened to our capacity to laugh at ourselves?

Um, ok. Seems pretty tangent. Anyway, I do think we should laugh at ourselves. And I agree with you it's frustrating to work with someone who can't have fun.

When did the political left lose its sense of humor?

Wow, did this woman go off on a political tirade? She must've touched a nerve. Anyway, I think a lot of people need more of a sense of humor, not sure it has to do with politics.

When did we lose the ability to express ourselves in clean language?

I don't think we did. I think you base your language on your audience. The problem is some people underestimate (or overestimate) their audience and use language not appropriate for them.

but on a lighter politically incorrect side ... Would you fire me if I called Jim_The_Jim a "nappy headed ho"?

What did you just say about the inability to express ourselves using clean language? I guess we have lost it then. Yes I consider both "nappy headed" and "ho" to be words/phrases I wouldn't use around my children.

[spa_repair_guy]

Your assumptions are revealing.

"BTW I grew up on the other side of the tracks with 5 kids and 3 adults in a house that was 1100 square feet with one bath."

Nobody wore "cheap" as a badge of honor.

Well I guess there's always one!!

The entire last section from “Which all leads me to ask:” was not directed toward this "retail-impaired" woman but to society at large.

My question about losing the ability to laugh at ourselves and loss of a sense of humor is shown is a stellar example in the screed responding to my original post.

The loss of human reasonableness is terrible.

The loss of laughter is truly sad.

It is within our power as individuals to bring back the best parts of life.

If you’ve forgotten when it was “more better” watch reruns of The Andy Griffith Show. Mayberry sets a good example. When Bill Gates puts me in his will I’ll start building Mayberry 2000.

Chas, could you be Aunt Bea?

Doc, could you be Barney?

Jim_the_Jim, ………….. Otis?

srg