Malibuscott Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I'm having a problem with my 2004 Hot Springs Grandee spa in which the 30 amp GFCI subpanel breaker trips every 2.5 to 3 days. Here's a little bit about my spa in terms of what I've attempted to rule out thus far and some recent maintenance I have done AFTER the problem started. I recently replaced all of the filters and installed new ozonator tubbing and a new ozone injector. I just replaced the heater relay board, as there was quite a bit of dark black soot along the upper portion of the board primarily under the metal bracket that rests across the front of the board in addition to inside cover of the IQ 2020 cover where the heater relay board is located. When I removed the old heater relay board, the plastic area behind the board appeared melted in at least one place (not the relay board itself, but the black plastic it rests up against) where the heat must have built up over time. After installing the new heater relay board, the heater once again fired up immediately (as it has done before) and after roughly 2.5 to 3 days of maintaining its set operating temperature, the 30 amp breaker trips and the heater goes off. I was under the impression that most heater related problems would likely cause a more immediate response in terms of the breaker tripping. Is it possible that ithe heater might be the likely cause and only tripping every few days? I've also checked the wiring to the GFCI. they appear tight and im not seeing anything visually with the wires to the GFCI or heater relay that would suggest a connection related problem per se. Any suggestions as to the likely cause? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman1645 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 You need at least a 50 amp to run that tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnepr Dave Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Hot Spring tubs have two breakers a 20 Amp and a 30 Amp. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo217 Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 Most likely the heater as that's what's the 30 amp breaker controls. Does the heater show any signs of corrosion? @tman-hot springs uses a 2 breaker system one 20 amp and one 30 amp sub panel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 3, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 The sub panel does contain a separate 30 amp and 20 amp breaker as you mentioned. The 30 amp side definitely controls the heater. When it trips roughly every 2.5-3 days for unknown reasons the heater turns off, but the circulation pump and ozonator continue to function (as they run off the 20 amp breaker). I don't see any outward signs of corrosion on the heater, but as the second owner I have to assume the heater may be the original one from 10 years ago and perhaps the likely source of the problem. Does the fact that it works fine for 3 days each time before tripping before tripping suggest that it migh be something else or have you seen occasions where the damage is intermittent like that. In addition to being connected into the heater relay board, I noticed that the 6kw no fault heater also has a pressure switch, control thermostat, and highlimit thermostat connection to the main control board. Is it unlikely that those other three connections could be the root of the problem? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 4, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Had someone out today to look at it. It looks like when I installed the new heater relay board I mistakenly removed a yellow piece of tape that comes on the new board that apparently keeps the metal bracket that holds the board in place from coming in contact with the component under the tape. It looks like I may have inadvertently fried my new board. The technician believe that since the breaker tripped again with the new board in place that it was likely shot and would need to be changed out again. Is there any chance that the board may still be good? Hate to throw it away if there is a chance it's still functional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Don't replace the heater PCB, If it only trips once every few days, it's not your problem. Cut a small piece of aluminum so the metal doesn't hit that little resistor on the heater PCB. That, imho, should be included in the instructions. The tape is not a thick enough insulator. That being said, it's either the heater, the breaker, or some weakness in the line from the 30 amp breaker to the spa- which could include bugs, or moisture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately, the technician replaced the board yesterday so i may now have two good ones and based on your expertise, it sounds like i may still have problems a few days from now. i appreciate the info and will let you know what happens...fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted April 5, 2014 Report Share Posted April 5, 2014 Never say never. Keep those fingers crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Well, crossing my fingers didn't work. It started up fine on Friday and was still working great last night (Sunday), but when I checked it again this morning (Monday) the 30 amp breaker was tripped again. You could almost set your watch by this problem. It works for 3 days and the 30 amp breaker for the heater trips. When the technician was out here on Friday he ran an Ohm meter to the heater and it appeared to be reading fine, but could that still be the likely source of this recurring problem? I thought I may have read in a previous post that if the heater had a small area of corrosion inside it might allow just enough water to seep in over time to cause it to trip. Is that the likely scenario? Should I stay focused on the heater even if the meter seems to show its good, or would you focus on the breaker? How likely is it that a bad breaker would trip at precisely the same time every three days? There is definitely a pattern here? Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 You can't detect your problem with an OHM test- you need to run a current leakage test. Unfortunately, most tech's have no idea how to do, nor do they have the proper equipment. Unless the tech is lucky enough to "catch in in the act," he's going to be guessing. It could be the heater, the circuit breaker, or an issue with the electrical run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 Thank you. Is the current leakage test you're referring to something I've seen in other posts mentioning use of a megohmmeter? I will try and find someone familiar with the process. Does the fact that this problem is so consistent in terms of the heater actually working for a period of 3 days each time before it trips, make you more suspicious of the heater more so than the GFCI? Have you ever seen a GFCI breaker that tires out so consistently after 3 days of carrying a load? Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreservedSwine Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The megger can detect full load amps arc, but the GFCI breaker is more likely to be tripping due to ~5 milliamps of current going to ground. You test for this with an in-line amp meter- capable of accurately detecting current (milliamps) down to 0.01ma Additionally, the spa "ground" is disrupted during testing, so if there is a ground fault, it can be potentially dangerous. Someone needs to know what they're doing. You can ususally spot a defective component fairly quickly, as most components will leak slight amount of current well before reaching the ~5 milliamp threshold of a GFCI breaker. I replace anything that leaks over 0.5ma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Thank you for the recommendation and useful information. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malibuscott Posted April 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2014 I wanted to let you know that I changed the 30 amp GFCI in the sub panel and that seems to have solved the problem. It's been running now for 8 straight days without tripping (a new record). Just want to close out the thread in case someone was having a similar problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim126289 Posted May 19, 2022 Report Share Posted May 19, 2022 I’m having the same issue so anyone with a known cause and fix please advise. The breakers are three months old and the problem started occurring two weeks ago. Email is fine , wilsonta@taylortel.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cranbiz Posted May 19, 2022 Report Share Posted May 19, 2022 12 hours ago, Tim126289 said: I’m having the same issue so anyone with a known cause and fix please advise. The breakers are three months old and the problem started occurring two weeks ago. Email is fine , wilsonta@taylortel.net Start your own thread. Post up pictures of the Spa Pack PCB, the wiring diagram on the cover and of the equipment area. Please fully describe your problem. This way, you get the attention you need and our experts don't have to wade thru an old post to figure out what was said years ago. They volunteer their limited time for free to help. We can help them by making it easy to help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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