Ownership Can Be Very Expensive

[currier1]

We've owned a HS Vanguard for 3 years now. We use it all the time and love everything about it...that is until this past year when the repairs started.

First it was the 30A breaker...with labor and travel (we live about an hour from the dealer) it cost over $600 to fix...and it happened at the worst possible time...temps near 0 and just before Christmas Day...had to pump down and vac/blow water out as best as I could since I knew it could be several days before the dealer could even look at it.

Then, presumably due to my poor job of getting all the water out - resulting in freeze damage, we developed a slow leak. After waiting 4 MONTHS, we finally got it fixed. Dealer talked me into picking the spa up and bringing it to their shop for a more thorough repair. Then came the bill...$960!!! $300 for pickup,$250 for foam, $400 for labor and the rest in parts...

Between the two charges, we've racked up close $1,600 in just 3 years!

To add insult to injury, the bill for the leak said the ozonator will soon need replacement...parts alone quoted at over $350...with labor, easily $500 to fix.

Had we'd known we'd be facing repair bills close to 25% of the initial purchase - within 4 years of buying it - I don't know that we'd have been so eager to buy a spa in the first place.

No real reason for posting this except maybe to let you potential future owners know about one of the downsides to ownership...

[PreservedSwine]

The breaker is covered under warranty- labor and parts. The only thing you should have paid for is a travel charge if you live particularly far away. As far as repairing presumed freeze damage- ask for proof it was freeze damage- If you suspect you're being taken advantage of- call the manufacturer- they'll get to the bottom of it. 1-800-999-4688

[Jd6107]

It can be expensive, but you can cut down on the expense if you do it yourself. You save all the labor cost which can be just as high as the parts to fix it.

[currier1]

The breaker is covered under warranty- labor and parts. The only thing you should have paid for is a travel charge if you live particularly far away. As far as repairing presumed freeze damage- ask for proof it was freeze damage- If you suspect you're being taken advantage of- call the manufacturer- they'll get to the bottom of it. 1-800-999-4688

[mws]

My solution to expensive ownership is split into a few things:

1] only buy used. No spa is worth what you pay for it new. And if you buy used for a low price and do some repairs yourself you should never exceed the price of a new one. I mean, buy an $8000 spa--but buy it used, and several years old, for $2000- $1500 or so, not barely used, for $6000. That's too new, and too much money for a money pit. Don't pay more than 20% of the original price. Spas hold up better than you might imagine, the shell, the jet motors, the control board, even the heating element. And if you can buy them and replace them yourself, each mentioned item above is not much more than $150-300 max. Still, way less than the $8K or more, for a new feature-packed hot tub.

2] not a Do it yourselfer? YouTube is your friend. I have learned a bunch about rebuilding spa motors and bearings, all sorts of stuff, on YouTube. Not a pro? Need cheap tools, much of it is available on Harbor Freight, including hydraulic presses, strap wrenches, gear pullers, etc.

3] when I have slow leaks, which i have had a few on my 1998 Sundance Optima I bought used (for $500, I probably overpaid) , and also, am probably the 3rd or 4th owner, I use this stuff. It's like fix-a-flat for hot tubs and pools.

http://www.amazon.com/Fix-Leak-Pool-Sealer-32/dp/B003K1E99Y/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392071083&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=hjot+tub+leak+fixer

[MikeinNJ]

 

My solution to expensive ownership is split into a few things:1] only buy used. No spa is worth what you pay for it new. And if you buy used for a low price and do some repairs yourself you should never exceed the price of a new one. I mean, buy an $8000 spa--but buy it used, and several years old, for $2000- $1500 or so, not barely used, for $6000. That's too new, and too much money for a money pit. Don't pay more than 20% of the original price. Spas hold up better than you might imagine, the shell, the jet motors, the control board, even the heating element. And if you can buy them and replace them yourself, each mentioned item above is not much more than $150-300 max. Still, way less than the $8K or more, for a new feature-packed hot tub. 2] not a Do it yourselfer? YouTube is your friend. I have learned a bunch about rebuilding spa motors and bearings, all sorts of stuff, on YouTube. Not a pro? Need cheap tools, much of it is available on Harbor Freight, including hydraulic presses, strap wrenches, gear pullers, etc. 3] when I have slow leaks, which i have had a few on my 1998 Sundance Optima I bought used (for $500, I probably overpaid) , and also, am probably the 3rd or 4th owner, I use this stuff. It's like fix-a-flat for hot tubs and pools. http://www.amazon.com/Fix-Leak-Pool-Sealer-32/dp/B003K1E99Y/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1392071083&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=hjot+tub+leak+fixer

 

This. I got my 2002 Coleman spa for free off of Freecycle. Picked it up on a friend's landscape trailer for free, got a bunch of friends to help for some beer and pizza. Had an electrician friend wire it up for the cost of the parts ($60) and $100. I have taught myself how to do the the following repairs over the last year:

Most recently heater element ($36, standard element)

Impeller and pump seal ($35)

Motherboard relays for heater ($12)

Hi Limit and Temp Sensors ($50)

Capacitor on two-speed pump ($10)

Hairline crack in manifold ($5 for JB Weld marine putty, stuff is a rock)

I was able to properly diagnose the electrical stuff with basic electrical knowledge and a multimeter/ampmeter. To spruce up and modernize the tub and it's rotting and neglected cedar sides, I did the following mods:

New sides, T1-11 from Home Depot ($100) - Cut to fit with circular saw

R-50 Pink Foam Insulation Board ($50)

R-30 Unbacked Insulation ($20)

Paint to color match my house ($30)

Multicolor 27-LED Bulb ($50)

Hydrolic coverlift (Splurged on this one, $200)

So for about $600 in mods and $160 for install materials, I've got a fantastic looking and working tub. If I get a few more years out of it, I'll still be quite happy. It was hardly ever used by the previous owner. He used it for a year, moved, and it sat winterized and not hooked up for years until he decided to just offload it.

Before:

After: (Gotta replace that fence this spring!)

[Roger]

What price do you put on your labor and how many hours do you have in it? Some people say they enjoy doing it so they don't put a price on their labor, but that's not fair to yourself.

Looks nice.

[MikeinNJ]

 

What price do you put on your labor and how many hours do you have in it? Some people say they enjoy doing it so they don't put a price on their labor, but that's not fair to yourself.Looks nice.

Thanks! I do enjoy working on stuff like this. To an extent. When the heater went when it was 7 degrees out, not so much on that one. I got very quick at pulling the pump, opening the wet end and replacing the seal and impeller. Same with capacitor. I've been able to do most repairs in 15-20min, most less than an hour. The new sides were a day project.

Not really sure what price I would put on something like this. It's a lot like a car, you've got motors, electrical, plumbing, and even bodywork. And like a car, you can save a lot on maintenance by doing things yourself (And know that they are done right; one local shop tried to sell me a whole new motor and wetend when my impeller cracked.. $35 repair). I guess it's priceless when I walk into my local tub showroom to buy chemicals and see the latest tubs for $8-10k. Also there's a great satisfaction when getting in each time, knowing that I've been able to revive and rescue this thing. The only thing left to buy is a new cover probably next year. It's starting to crack and look weathered in quite a few spots.

[PreservedSwine]

 

The breaker is covered under warranty- labor and parts. The only thing you should have paid for is a travel charge if you live particularly far away. As far as repairing presumed freeze damage- ask for proof it was freeze damage- If you suspect you're being taken advantage of- call the manufacturer- they'll get to the bottom of it. 1-800-999-4688

 

Did you mean to say anything?

And MikeinNJ- what a difference, well done

[Hot Spring Official]

 

We've owned a HS Vanguard for 3 years now. We use it all the time and love everything about it...that is until this past year when the repairs started.

First it was the 30A breaker...with labor and travel (we live about an hour from the dealer) it cost over $600 to fix...and it happened at the worst possible time...temps near 0 and just before Christmas Day...had to pump down and vac/blow water out as best as I could since I knew it could be several days before the dealer could even look at it.

Then, presumably due to my poor job of getting all the water out - resulting in freeze damage, we developed a slow leak. After waiting 4 MONTHS, we finally got it fixed. Dealer talked me into picking the spa up and bringing it to their shop for a more thorough repair. Then came the bill...$960!!! $300 for pickup,$250 for foam, $400 for labor and the rest in parts...

Between the two charges, we've racked up close $1,600 in just 3 years!

To add insult to injury, the bill for the leak said the ozonator will soon need replacement...parts alone quoted at over $350...with labor, easily $500 to fix.

Had we'd known we'd be facing repair bills close to 25% of the initial purchase - within 4 years of buying it - I don't know that we'd have been so eager to buy a spa in the first place.

No real reason for posting this except maybe to let you potential future owners know about one of the downsides to ownership...

Hi currier1,

I'm very sorry to hear about the trouble you've had with your Vanguard. I do ask that you call our Customer Service directly to talk through the repairs and billing. We certainly do not want you to have a negative experience with your spa and would like to work with you to make your experience a bit more positive. The team can be reached directly at 1-800-999-4688 X 8432.

Thank you,

Erica

The Hot Spring Team

[Isaac-1]

Hi, I just registered so I could post, I am a long time lurker and very active on another pool message board. I just wanted to also say that deals can be found out there, just last week I bought my first Hot Tub, a very lightly used Hot Spring Jetsetter for $1,000, sure it is 15 years old (1998 model), but it is in near mint condition, just a couple of small dings, it spent the last few years in storage and probably was indoors before that. (still had 1998 date code filters installed, even though the heater has been updated to the current style). I just filled it up for the first time last Sunday, and everything ran, or at least it did at first, the circulation pump made a racket, and died afer a couple of days, but if a $200 circulation pump and a new $100 ozonator (assuming the 15 year old one was dead based on age alone) plus a couple of hundred dollars for wire and breakers to hook up, and a hundred miles of driving to pick it up, and I think I found a fair deal, when you consider a new HS Jetestter runs about $7,000, adds 2 more jets 10 more gallons of size, and the Moto-Massage 2 in place of the version 1. More deals like this are out there, I just spotted one tonight online about 150 miles away, a 1997 Hot Spring Sovergn for $1,000, it also appears to be in good shape (maybe a little less good than my Jetsetter), and spent its life indoors, as well as a 2003 Sovergn for $1,500, but that one has been outdoors some.

[Dan The Spa Man]

From my experience as a dealer, a spa is as only as good as your understanding of how it operates and your ability to take care of it.

Like automobiles, a used Ford Escort and a new Mercedes will both fall apart in a short time if treated poorly or not properly maintained.

Regarding the initial post: Most spas are supposed to be left filled and running during cold months. It is very difficult to properly winterize a tub to prevent freezing, due to the massive amount of plumbing most tubs have. Though I understand a leak was involved, it is better to leave it running, topping the water level off as necessary, and leaving the water chemistry properly maintained rather than let is sit empty. Yes this is in hindsight so I understand that its easy to point out flaws. However, for those who are in a similar situation, look for another service company to provide repairs if your company is not able to meet your needs in a timely manner.

I may not be in the majority on this next bit, but an ozonator isn't worth the cost to replace. As a dealer, I never push ozonators as a part of my pitch. Yes- There is value to having one. I completely understand the benefits. However, ozone is only as good as your water chemistry, in my humble opinion. I wouldn't pay extra to have one, and I would not pay to have one replaced.

Regarding New vs Used: Everything is relative. There are certainly tubs that are of better quality and those of lessor quality. There are times in which a quality used tub is a better value than a cheap new tub, and vice-versa. The devil is in the details. So I cannot subscribe to blanket statements such as "A is better than B."

The best advice is to be as educated as possible. Half of all hot tub sales is your dealer: If it is new, is the dealer reputable? If it is used, is there a local dealer that can get you parts and service?

Good luck moving forward.