Hot Springs Not So "hot" For Us

[Roxyspa]

Back in Jan 2011 my spouse & I started a thread on here titled: "Hot Springs vs Jacuzzi vs Coast" that engendered much advice and debate on various manufacturer warranties & how to make the best decision regarding the purchase of our replacement spa after ours had died rather suddenly.

We ended up deciding on the Vanguard by Hot Springs more out of desperation than anything. We were really drawn to the Coast design and innovation but online reviews by folks who'd had difficulty with dealers honoring warranties frightened us. Both Hot Springs and Coast are ISO 9001 registered so it was a tough call. Everyone assured us we would LOVE our Vanguard.

In making our final decision we made 2 crucial errors that we thought it worth highlighting in here for future spa owners.

1) we did not honour our own rule of "water test before deciding" and "dealer, dealer, dealer".

2) we ignored our gut instincts and made a practical decision rather than a personal one

We wet-tested the Grande and some other model at our Hot Springs dealer. We were not enamoured with either and although the Grande was closer in size to our old spa (which we had loved), we were not willing to spend $13,000 on something we were smitten with. We asked the dealer if we could wet test the Vanguard they had in store. We were informed that it was already sold and therefore could not be filled for us to wet-test. When we insisted on wet testing it, or something else that had more of the demographics we were searching for, we were told we'd have to drive an hour away to another store to wet-test. That should have been our first queue to walk away.

We were assured by our dealer that the Vanguard was, in fact, just a smaller version of the Grande so it would be exactly the same experience but in a smaller version of the spa. We hated the whole process of having to replace the spa we had so loved and after two weeks of visiting dealerships, we were exhausted and just wanted it to be over. In the end, we did not walk away from that dealer and after it took 2 full months to have our Vanguard delivered to our home, it took only ONE week to know this was a huge error. The Vanguard was NOT the tub for us.

I don't know what dealers are usually like but it seems to me that if you know a client has been ambivalent about a particular choice, you should a) not encourage them to make a decision on a spa you know is wrong for them, and might want to check-in with them after the spa is delivered and installed.

Why the Vanguard can be a poor choice for some:

We cannot say that Hot Springs doesn't make a great product.If you're looking for a spa that feels more like a jacuzzi bathtub in terms of size, then the Vanguard might be for you.

I believe that the Vanguard is designed by and for men. Reason I say this is that I found the calf jets actually annoying and almost bruising to my calves. The motto-massage which is it's most "praised" feature is set in the seating in such a way that you have to sit on your hips - something men seem to do almost instinctively whilst women sit up straighter - and lean way back into the seat but cannot rest your head comfortably. The upper part of our bodies were never fully immersed and most of the seats were simply uncomfortable. Worse still, the temperature would not regulate itself on this spa. Although we had it set to 99F, as soon as you open the lid, the temp begins to climb until it's 103F. We had locked the temp at our selection yet, it would stay at that temp. This was alarming considering our old spa had died when the heater regulating switch failed and basically boiled the water dry in our tub, melting the plastic in there! We did not want a repeat of this unfortunate incident and this was worrisome to us.

We have no doubt that there are numerous Vanguard owners that would disagree with our assessment of this particular spa, however all we wish to emphasize is that if you're thinking of buying a Vanguard or any other spa, have the dealer fill it for you and sit in it for a while so you get a real sense of how it feels for YOU. If you're uncertain, wet-test it again but DON'T make a decision based on the word of the guy who's attempting to make the sale! If they are unwilling to fill a tub for you, do yourself a favour and WALK AWAY!!!

After 2 fulls weeks of trying our Vanguard out almost daily, we could bear it no longer and asked the dealer to retrieve it from our home. This particular dealer was brilliant in how they handled our return and gave us no grief about handing back a full refund for our spa.

We subsequently went back to the Coast Dealer in Medina OH that we so loved and she filled any and all tubs that we wanted to wet-test. She is marvelous and we finally bought the Coast Radiance and had it delivered just yesterday! Are we concerned about possible quality or warranty issues still? Yes, we are, BUT we have the utmost confidence in this dealer and trust that she will make things right for us should any problems arise.

So for now, all we can tell you is that we're looking forward to a long and positive rapport with Coast and years of enjoyment of our Radiance! Should we encounter problems that remain unresolved by our dealer or the Coast Manufacturer, you can bet they'll be discussed right here for everyone to benefit from our experience!

If you're out there looking for a spa, remember - WET TEST and DEALER, DEALER, DEALER should be your cardinal rules!!!

Good luck folks and thanks to all who shared advice on our previous thread.

[footie]

Glad to hear you have finally got the tub you wanted but sorry to hear that it took owning (though briefly) the Hot Springs to make you realise that mistake. As far as Coast and their warranties are concerned, I don't know how reliable those comments are, if you look on here and other spa forums you don't see many if any threads started where people are having problems which is generally a good indicator in my book. Completely agree about being confident in your dealer, if they've stuck with a brand for a long time then chances are both parties (dealer and manufacturer) have a good working relationship and any problems shouldn't be a problem to sort which I hope won't happen anyway.

I looked at that very Coast model before settling for their big 7 seater Cascade model and as I approach a year in I am over the moon with my Coast, each seat provides a different muscle workout and the lounger doesnt make myself or the wife float as many of these designs do, it's filter system seems to keep the water crystal clear, more so than my brother-in-law's HotSprings does, though that might be more to do with the water advice I have received and now follow to the letter from the members on this forum.

If my experience of the Coast is truly typical then you have made the right decision, happy tubbing.

[footie]

I forgot to ask whether you got the radiance spa with or without the lounger?

[Roxyspa]

I forgot to ask whether you got the radiance spa with or without the lounger?

We chose the one with the lounger. This, in and of itself, is interesting because we had not like the lounger in our old spa and had been quite certain we didn't want a lounger. We never thought we'd enjoy as we did when we wet tested but the design of the lounger is brilliant and you don't float out of it as in numerous others. It would have been nice to have the extra seat in our spa, however the two of us are the primary users so we chose what WE enjoyed most!

[Roxyspa]

Glad to hear you have finally got the tub you wanted but sorry to hear that it took owning (though briefly) the Hot Springs to make you realise that mistake. As far as Coast and their warranties are concerned, I don't know how reliable those comments are, if you look on here and other spa forums you don't see many if any threads started where people are having problems which is generally a good indicator in my book. Completely agree about being confident in your dealer, if they've stuck with a brand for a long time then chances are both parties (dealer and manufacturer) have a good working relationship and any problems shouldn't be a problem to sort which I hope won't happen anyway.

I looked at that very Coast model before settling for their big 7 seater Cascade model and as I approach a year in I am over the moon with my Coast, each seat provides a different muscle workout and the lounger doesnt make myself or the wife float as many of these designs do, it's filter system seems to keep the water crystal clear, more so than my brother-in-law's HotSprings does, though that might be more to do with the water advice I have received and now follow to the letter from the members on this forum.

If my experience of the Coast is truly typical then you have made the right decision, happy tubbing.

It's good to hear your experience has been a positive one. I guess only time will tell for us. We certainly trust our dealer and hope she won't let us down should there ever be any issues that arise. It's great to have a tub we're happy with at last!

[footie]

We chose the one with the lounger. This, in and of itself, is interesting because we had not like the lounger in our old spa and had been quite certain we didn't want a lounger. We never thought we'd enjoy as we did when we wet tested but the design of the lounger is brilliant and you don't float out of it as in numerous others. It would have been nice to have the extra seat in our spa, however the two of us are the primary users so we chose what WE enjoyed most!

I love my lounger too and found the exact same experience in others where I floated out of the seat which doesn't happen in the Coast. The thing I like about it is that every seat seems to work a different set of muscles, I generally start with the waterfall seat (when my wife lets me) and eventually end up in the lounger.

It's good to hear your experience has been a positive one. I guess only time will tell for us. We certainly trust our dealer and hope she won't let us down should there ever be any issues that arise. It's great to have a tub we're happy with at last!

So far I am over the moon with my tub, I am not saying it's better than any of the rest but for now it's exceeding my expectations which is always a good sign.

[spa goddess]

Hi Everyone I am the dealer in Medina, Oh that sold Roxyspa and husband their new Radiance spa. No worries, promise we'll take care of you We've been selling Coast for 11 years now and if there is something that needs attention, we'll either know what to do or we will figure it out. And dear Roxyspa, I know you will enjoy your spa for many, many years to come. Happy tubbing!

[THE SPA GUY]

sweet

[bdubya200]

sweet

I KNOW! How dare a dealer come here, reveal themselves up front, AND BE POLITE!

</sarcasm>

[footie]

Hi Everyone I am the dealer in Medina, Oh that sold Roxyspa and husband their new Radiance spa. No worries, promise we'll take care of you We've been selling Coast for 11 years now and if there is something that needs attention, we'll either know what to do or we will figure it out. And dear Roxyspa, I know you will enjoy your spa for many, many years to come. Happy tubbing!

Welcome aboard though I think we already know each other from else where. It's always go to be open about what your interests are, not only does it let people see you have nothing to hind but its it useful to have a dealers perspective on a brand and not only a customers.

[footie]

sweet

We have D1, HotSprings, Masterspas, Sundance, Jacuzzi and many other dealers/tech guys on here so why but someone selling Coast?

[Even Further]

Great to hear your happy with a Coast Spas.

I've found my old Coast Spas tub to be very comfy as well.

Just to throw this out there. ISO 9001 doesn't mean anything about the quality of a companies product, or how well the product performs.

Its more about the company itself, not the product. A company can make a crappy product and still have a "quality policy".

Its more about a proper paperwork trail within a company.

[Roxyspa]

sweet

I KNOW! How dare a dealer come here, reveal themselves up front, AND BE POLITE!

</sarcasm>

Aaaahhhh! That's because this particular dealer is a doll and I doubt she is would know how to be rude. I suspect that's why their business is thriving and they have repeat clients that have been with them for many moons!

[Roxyspa]

Hi Everyone I am the dealer in Medina, Oh that sold Roxyspa and husband their new Radiance spa. No worries, promise we'll take care of you We've been selling Coast for 11 years now and if there is something that needs attention, we'll either know what to do or we will figure it out. And dear Roxyspa, I know you will enjoy your spa for many, many years to come. Happy tubbing!

Thanks D! Looking forward to many years of a rapport with you. We've been in our spa pretty much every day since we turned it on and we LOVE it more every time! It's simply regrettable that we detoured to get to you! lol I suspect you've see the post re: ISO 9001. I'll let F address it since he's the quality engineer in the family.

[Roxyspa]

Great to hear your happy with a Coast Spas.

I've found my old Coast Spas tub to be very comfy as well.

Just to throw this out there. ISO 9001 doesn't mean anything about the quality of a companies product, or how well the product performs.

Its more about the company itself, not the product. A company can make a crappy product and still have a "quality policy".

Its more about a proper paperwork trail within a company.

Being a metallurgist and quality engineer for 35+ years, working with MIL I45208A, MIL Q9858A and ISO 9000, and dealing with the aircraft,

naval/nuclear industries as well as the department of defense (DCASMA/CLEVELAND), I can assure everyone reading this post of two things.

* A manufacturer can ALWAYS perform errors but is MANDATED by ALL quality systems to make corrective action so as not to allow said error to

transpire a second time. Root cause/corrective action investigations will tell the story for ANY manufacturing facility. The "quality

policy" or "corporate beliefs" of a manufacturer isn't what makes an ISO registration. The "paperwork trails" cited above are able to be produced, but unless followed explicitly, they are just "window dressing" to get a company by. A company that has belief in quality and follows the above mandates accompanied by employee training will surely be able to avoid recurring/continual/habitual errors.

* ISO 9000 registrars and auditors are not above reproach and can always be "bought". In addition, let's just say that a registrar that registers

dog food manufacturers should not be registering spa manufacturers. They wouldn't know what to audit or where, in the company, to look for telltale

faults that could lead to more/other faults.

I believe that one registrar can be considered outside reproach. That would be LLoyd's of London. They have the manpower/knowledge worldwide to audit or register any manufacturer.

This is just thrown out there for information purposes.

[footie]

ISO9001 isn't something I understand fully but to class it purely as a paper trail is surely under selling it. I am in the food industry and health and safety could also be classed as a paper trail but I can assure you that by following it to the letter has made us a much better firm that is reflected in the produce we make. I would imagine the same would be true for ISO9001.

Only my opinion.

[Roxyspa]

ISO9001 isn't something I understand fully but to class it purely as a paper trail is surely under selling it. I am in the food industry and health and safety could also be classed as a paper trail but I can assure you that by following it to the letter has made us a much better firm that is reflected in the produce we make. I would imagine the same would be true for ISO9001.

Only my opinion.

Roxy here... just to clarify that my husband's earlier post was in response to EVEN FURTHER's posting that read: "ISO 9001 doesn't mean anything about the quality of a companies product, or how well the product performs.

Its more about the company itself, not the product. A company can make a crappy product and still have a "quality policy".

Its more about a proper paperwork trail within a company."

Neither of us wanted anyone out there who isn't a quality expert to be misguided. You are quite right that ISO9001 is much more than just a paper trail.

People should note that there is a vast difference between a company saying they have a quality system/manual and a manufacturer who is registered to a quality standard like ISO9001 or others like it. Take Hot Springs and Coast to give an example from the spa world. Both manufacturers are ISO9001 registered which means they are constantly being audited to ensure they are always compliant to their written quality systems. These manufacturers invest enormous amounts of time and financial resources to maintain their registrations and they MUST operate by very stringent and proven standards.

People who are less knowledgable regarding quality standards often make the same error you did and state that it's not really so important. Those quality registrations are not just handed out to anyone so if you see a company that is accredited with such registrations, you can bet your bottom dollar they have a quality history that is superior to others.

Hope this helps clarify things for you and other readers.

r

[SpaTechincian]

ISO9001 isn't something I understand fully but to class it purely as a paper trail is surely under selling it. I am in the food industry and health and safety could also be classed as a paper trail but I can assure you that by following it to the letter has made us a much better firm that is reflected in the produce we make. I would imagine the same would be true for ISO9001.

Only my opinion.

Roxy here... just to clarify that my husband's earlier post was in response to EVEN FURTHER's posting that read: "ISO 9001 doesn't mean anything about the quality of a companies product, or how well the product performs.

Its more about the company itself, not the product. A company can make a crappy product and still have a "quality policy".

Its more about a proper paperwork trail within a company."

Neither of us wanted anyone out there who isn't a quality expert to be misguided. You are quite right that ISO9001 is much more than just a paper trail.

People should note that there is a vast difference between a company saying they have a quality system/manual and a manufacturer who is registered to a quality standard like ISO9001 or others like it. Take Hot Springs and Coast to give an example from the spa world. Both manufacturers are ISO9001 registered which means they are constantly being audited to ensure they are always compliant to their written quality systems. These manufacturers invest enormous amounts of time and financial resources to maintain their registrations and they MUST operate by very stringent and proven standards.

People who are less knowledgable regarding quality standards often make the same error you did and state that it's not really so important. Those quality registrations are not just handed out to anyone so if you see a company that is accredited with such registrations, you can bet your bottom dollar they have a quality history that is superior to others.

Hope this helps clarify things for you and other readers.

r

You should also know that Coast Spas has been Canadas top 50 best managed companies in Canada for the last 3 years in a row.

[SpaTechincian]

We chose the one with the lounger. This, in and of itself, is interesting because we had not like the lounger in our old spa and had been quite certain we didn't want a lounger. We never thought we'd enjoy as we did when we wet tested but the design of the lounger is brilliant and you don't float out of it as in numerous others. It would have been nice to have the extra seat in our spa, however the two of us are the primary users so we chose what WE enjoyed most!

I love my lounger too and found the exact same experience in others where I floated out of the seat which doesn't happen in the Coast. The thing I like about it is that every seat seems to work a different set of muscles, I generally start with the waterfall seat (when my wife lets me) and eventually end up in the lounger.

It's good to hear your experience has been a positive one. I guess only time will tell for us. We certainly trust our dealer and hope she won't let us down should there ever be any issues that arise. It's great to have a tub we're happy with at last!

So far I am over the moon with my tub, I am not saying it's better than any of the rest but for now it's exceeding my expectations which is always a good sign.

Hey footie, I assume that you have the cascade 2 model by your ID picture. How do you find that lounger, because its not a common style lounger almost a recliner. Is it a comfortable seat?

[SpaTechincian]

Back in Jan 2011 my spouse & I started a thread on here titled: "Hot Springs vs Jacuzzi vs Coast" that engendered much advice and debate on various manufacturer warranties & how to make the best decision regarding the purchase of our replacement spa after ours had died rather suddenly.

We ended up deciding on the Vanguard by Hot Springs more out of desperation than anything. We were really drawn to the Coast design and innovation but online reviews by folks who'd had difficulty with dealers honoring warranties frightened us. Both Hot Springs and Coast are ISO 9001 registered so it was a tough call. Everyone assured us we would LOVE our Vanguard.

In making our final decision we made 2 crucial errors that we thought it worth highlighting in here for future spa owners.

1) we did not honour our own rule of "water test before deciding" and "dealer, dealer, dealer".

2) we ignored our gut instincts and made a practical decision rather than a personal one

We wet-tested the Grande and some other model at our Hot Springs dealer. We were not enamoured with either and although the Grande was closer in size to our old spa (which we had loved), we were not willing to spend $13,000 on something we were smitten with. We asked the dealer if we could wet test the Vanguard they had in store. We were informed that it was already sold and therefore could not be filled for us to wet-test. When we insisted on wet testing it, or something else that had more of the demographics we were searching for, we were told we'd have to drive an hour away to another store to wet-test. That should have been our first queue to walk away.

We were assured by our dealer that the Vanguard was, in fact, just a smaller version of the Grande so it would be exactly the same experience but in a smaller version of the spa. We hated the whole process of having to replace the spa we had so loved and after two weeks of visiting dealerships, we were exhausted and just wanted it to be over. In the end, we did not walk away from that dealer and after it took 2 full months to have our Vanguard delivered to our home, it took only ONE week to know this was a huge error. The Vanguard was NOT the tub for us.

I don't know what dealers are usually like but it seems to me that if you know a client has been ambivalent about a particular choice, you should a) not encourage them to make a decision on a spa you know is wrong for them, and might want to check-in with them after the spa is delivered and installed.

Why the Vanguard can be a poor choice for some:

We cannot say that Hot Springs doesn't make a great product.If you're looking for a spa that feels more like a jacuzzi bathtub in terms of size, then the Vanguard might be for you.

I believe that the Vanguard is designed by and for men. Reason I say this is that I found the calf jets actually annoying and almost bruising to my calves. The motto-massage which is it's most "praised" feature is set in the seating in such a way that you have to sit on your hips - something men seem to do almost instinctively whilst women sit up straighter - and lean way back into the seat but cannot rest your head comfortably. The upper part of our bodies were never fully immersed and most of the seats were simply uncomfortable. Worse still, the temperature would not regulate itself on this spa. Although we had it set to 99F, as soon as you open the lid, the temp begins to climb until it's 103F. We had locked the temp at our selection yet, it would stay at that temp. This was alarming considering our old spa had died when the heater regulating switch failed and basically boiled the water dry in our tub, melting the plastic in there! We did not want a repeat of this unfortunate incident and this was worrisome to us.

We have no doubt that there are numerous Vanguard owners that would disagree with our assessment of this particular spa, however all we wish to emphasize is that if you're thinking of buying a Vanguard or any other spa, have the dealer fill it for you and sit in it for a while so you get a real sense of how it feels for YOU. If you're uncertain, wet-test it again but DON'T make a decision based on the word of the guy who's attempting to make the sale! If they are unwilling to fill a tub for you, do yourself a favour and WALK AWAY!!!

After 2 fulls weeks of trying our Vanguard out almost daily, we could bear it no longer and asked the dealer to retrieve it from our home. This particular dealer was brilliant in how they handled our return and gave us no grief about handing back a full refund for our spa.

We subsequently went back to the Coast Dealer in Medina OH that we so loved and she filled any and all tubs that we wanted to wet-test. She is marvelous and we finally bought the Coast Radiance and had it delivered just yesterday! Are we concerned about possible quality or warranty issues still? Yes, we are, BUT we have the utmost confidence in this dealer and trust that she will make things right for us should any problems arise.

So for now, all we can tell you is that we're looking forward to a long and positive rapport with Coast and years of enjoyment of our Radiance! Should we encounter problems that remain unresolved by our dealer or the Coast Manufacturer, you can bet they'll be discussed right here for everyone to benefit from our experience!

If you're out there looking for a spa, remember - WET TEST and DEALER, DEALER, DEALER should be your cardinal rules!!!

Good luck folks and thanks to all who shared advice on our previous thread.

Do worry about the warranty issues, I have read things on the internet here about the coast warranty being bad. A lot of those posts were older (the ones I read anyways), and they use to use a company for there warranty cornerstone and that was the company that was bad, now Coast does the warranty themselves.

[footie]

Hey footie, I assume that you have the cascade 2 model by your ID picture. How do you find that lounger, because its not a common style lounger almost a recliner. Is it a comfortable seat?

I only really have experience with the HotSprings Envoy to compare it against since it's the only other tub I have had lengthy time in because best will in the world a quick wet test in any tub can't give you the full picture as living with something. Based on this comparison I found the Envoy's lounger to make me float out of the seat more, probably more of a lounger than my Coast is, in comparison I, the wife and the oldest of our boys all stay put in the Coast. As for the seat itself and the jet action, I love the two large jets that sit just below the shoulder blades, I postitioned their jets so I get a rotating action going which really seems to get deep into the muscles ............ lovely.

One thing I have noticed in mine and the Envoy is that each seat works a different muscle group on your back, probably true for most tubs. I generally spend 40 mins in the tub that's split 10 mins in the lounger and a further 10 mins on each the next three seats next to it.

P.S.

Got scented crystals a couple of weeks ago and used them for the first last weekend, an amazingly different experience, I wouldn't have thought that introducing a smell would have had this effect.

[bdubya200]

ensure they are always compliant to their written quality systems

THEIR written system. Sure, they get audited, a lot. However, they know the answers to the test BC THEY MADE UP THE TEST. It is hard and expensive to be ISO90001 ceritifed, but it doesnt mean you make a good product. It means that you are great at following the protocol that you originally designed. That prob. does lend itself to an increase in quality in a lot of cases, but it in NOW WAY guarantees a consumer that they are buying a quality product. Give me a manufacturer who can spot a problem and change their processes to correct a problem over someone who is great at following their own set of rules tot he letter, even if it means diregarding a problem all bc fixing it isnt protocol.

[spa goddess]

The way that I look at ISO is as a quest for perfection. In spa world there are very few companies that are ISO so you could agree that it is not something that a company MUST do in order to compete. Those few who have done this want to stand out from the competition. They want to be the best possible.

With this type of thinking why would they sabotoge themselves by writing inferior rules and not reaching to be better. They could have saved themselves the trouble and expensive by just doing what the rest of the industry does.

As far as warranty goes. Warranty refers to manufacturers defects. It doesn't mean that there will be no expenses relating to maintainance during a warranty period. Many of the issues relating to warranty are due to 1) customer's unrealistic expectations or 2) dealer related problems.

For example, if the dealer has gone out of business or will not service the product for some reason, that is a problem. It is not, however, the fault of the manufacturer. Yet, no one gets on line and says dealer "joe blow's spa store" stinks. They say, X spa stinks. Meanwhile we have dealer who change brands every year or two and won't service the old brands.

Another thing that people don't always know is that manufacturers purchase pieces/parts from other suppliers. If something is warrantied or not may be up to that supplier not the manufacturer.

I have had customers whose tubs have frozen, whose water is green with frogs (really happened), who have issues with how they have taken care of the spa, that are surprized that their problem isn't covered under warranty.

Lastly you have the people who have done everything they are supposed to do and something just goes wrong. Those are the ones that a dealer will go to bat for. We will work with the company and the customer to find a solution. We will work at a reduced rate, we will help anyway we can. Sometimes it just isn't a warranty problem and it's no one's fault. With respect to each other and with the knowledge that everyone is working toward a solution and cooperation, it can get resolved.

[bdubya200]

The way that I look at ISO is as a quest for perfection. In spa world there are very few companies that are ISO so you could agree that it is not something that a company MUST do in order to compete. Those few who have done this want to stand out from the competition. They want to be the best possible.

With this type of thinking why would they sabotoge themselves by writing inferior rules and not reaching to be better. They could have saved themselves the trouble and expensive by just doing what the rest of the industry does.

Marketing. Im not saying ISO90001 is bad, just that in certain scenarios ( one that I was directly and substantially involved in for a number of years) doesnt mean squat in terms of the product and service being offered by the certified manufacturer. Its not a quality stamp. its a 'We follow protocol...that we made up in the first place" stamp.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

The way that I look at ISO is as a quest for perfection. In spa world there are very few companies that are ISO so you could agree that it is not something that a company MUST do in order to compete. Those few who have done this want to stand out from the competition. They want to be the best possible.

With this type of thinking why would they sabotoge themselves by writing inferior rules and not reaching to be better. They could have saved themselves the trouble and expensive by just doing what the rest of the industry does.

Marketing. Im not saying ISO90001 is bad, just that in certain scenarios ( one that I was directly and substantially involved in for a number of years) doesnt mean squat in terms of the product and service being offered by the certified manufacturer. Its not a quality stamp. its a 'We follow protocol...that we made up in the first place" stamp.

I wouldn't call it a quest for perfection but I wouldn't say its just Marketing either. Its there as a way to set controls to help assure things are done properly but it doesn’t exactly ASSURE quality because the human element to follow and do it right (and for the right reason) is still needed. For instance it helps stop people from making wholesale undocumented changes. You can still change the plumbing, controls or whatever 6 times in a given year but in this case you have to document it properly and test properly. It forces people to keep track of things on paper/computer, not just in their head. Its a way to know the I’s are dotted and the T’s crossed. If you're good it makes you a little better. If you're not good it won't help you much. It’s overused as a selling point (like most everything else) but its definitely a good thing to utilize (assuming its actually being done fully, correctly and as a control rather than just as a Marketing tool).