Hot Springs Not So "hot" For Us

[Roxyspa]

Back in Jan 2011 my spouse & I started a thread on here titled: "Hot Springs vs Jacuzzi vs Coast" that engendered much advice and debate on various manufacturer warranties & how to make the best decision regarding the purchase of our replacement spa after ours had died rather suddenly.

We ended up deciding on the Vanguard by Hot Springs more out of desperation than anything. We were really drawn to the Coast design and innovation but online reviews by folks who'd had difficulty with dealers honoring warranties frightened us. Both Hot Springs and Coast are ISO 9001 registered so it was a tough call. Everyone assured us we would LOVE our Vanguard.

In making our final decision we made 2 crucial errors that we thought it worth highlighting in here for future spa owners.

1) we did not honour our own rule of "water test before deciding" and "dealer, dealer, dealer".

2) we ignored our gut instincts and made a practical decision rather than a personal one

We wet-tested the Grande and some other model at our Hot Springs dealer. We were not enamoured with either and although the Grande was closer in size to our old spa (which we had loved), we were not willing to spend $13,000 on something we were smitten with. We asked the dealer if we could wet test the Vanguard they had in store. We were informed that it was already sold and therefore could not be filled for us to wet-test. When we insisted on wet testing it, or something else that had more of the demographics we were searching for, we were told we'd have to drive an hour away to another store to wet-test. That should have been our first queue to walk away.

We were assured by our dealer that the Vanguard was, in fact, just a smaller version of the Grande so it would be exactly the same experience but in a smaller version of the spa. We hated the whole process of having to replace the spa we had so loved and after two weeks of visiting dealerships, we were exhausted and just wanted it to be over. In the end, we did not walk away from that dealer and after it took 2 full months to have our Vanguard delivered to our home, it took only ONE week to know this was a huge error. The Vanguard was NOT the tub for us.

I don't know what dealers are usually like but it seems to me that if you know a client has been ambivalent about a particular choice, you should a) not encourage them to make a decision on a spa you know is wrong for them, and might want to check-in with them after the spa is delivered and installed.

Why the Vanguard can be a poor choice for some:

We cannot say that Hot Springs doesn't make a great product.If you're looking for a spa that feels more like a jacuzzi bathtub in terms of size, then the Vanguard might be for you.

I believe that the Vanguard is designed by and for men. Reason I say this is that I found the calf jets actually annoying and almost bruising to my calves. The motto-massage which is it's most "praised" feature is set in the seating in such a way that you have to sit on your hips - something men seem to do almost instinctively whilst women sit up straighter - and lean way back into the seat but cannot rest your head comfortably. The upper part of our bodies were never fully immersed and most of the seats were simply uncomfortable. Worse still, the temperature would not regulate itself on this spa. Although we had it set to 99F, as soon as you open the lid, the temp begins to climb until it's 103F. We had locked the temp at our selection yet, it would stay at that temp. This was alarming considering our old spa had died when the heater regulating switch failed and basically boiled the water dry in our tub, melting the plastic in there! We did not want a repeat of this unfortunate incident and this was worrisome to us.

We have no doubt that there are numerous Vanguard owners that would disagree with our assessment of this particular spa, however all we wish to emphasize is that if you're thinking of buying a Vanguard or any other spa, have the dealer fill it for you and sit in it for a while so you get a real sense of how it feels for YOU. If you're uncertain, wet-test it again but DON'T make a decision based on the word of the guy who's attempting to make the sale! If they are unwilling to fill a tub for you, do yourself a favour and WALK AWAY!!!

After 2 fulls weeks of trying our Vanguard out almost daily, we could bear it no longer and asked the dealer to retrieve it from our home. This particular dealer was brilliant in how they handled our return and gave us no grief about handing back a full refund for our spa.

We subsequently went back to the Coast Dealer in Medina OH that we so loved and she filled any and all tubs that we wanted to wet-test. She is marvelous and we finally bought the Coast Radiance and had it delivered just yesterday! Are we concerned about possible quality or warranty issues still? Yes, we are, BUT we have the utmost confidence in this dealer and trust that she will make things right for us should any problems arise.

So for now, all we can tell you is that we're looking forward to a long and positive rapport with Coast and years of enjoyment of our Radiance! Should we encounter problems that remain unresolved by our dealer or the Coast Manufacturer, you can bet they'll be discussed right here for everyone to benefit from our experience!

If you're out there looking for a spa, remember - WET TEST and DEALER, DEALER, DEALER should be your cardinal rules!!!

Good luck folks and thanks to all who shared advice on our previous thread.

Do worry about the warranty issues, I have read things on the internet here about the coast warranty being bad. A lot of those posts were older (the ones I read anyways), and they use to use a company for there warranty cornerstone and that was the company that was bad, now Coast does the warranty themselves.

One should always be aware of warranty history AND read the fine print. This is one thing we discussed at length with our dealer before signing on the dotted line. Unfortunately, I do agree with Spa Goddess that there are numerous write-ups online about warranty troubles that stemmed from poor service by dealers. That's why we stated: "dealer, dealer, dealer".

[Roxyspa]

The way that I look at ISO is as a quest for perfection. In spa world there are very few companies that are ISO so you could agree that it is not something that a company MUST do in order to compete. Those few who have done this want to stand out from the competition. They want to be the best possible.

With this type of thinking why would they sabotoge themselves by writing inferior rules and not reaching to be better. They could have saved themselves the trouble and expensive by just doing what the rest of the industry does.

Marketing. Im not saying ISO90001 is bad, just that in certain scenarios ( one that I was directly and substantially involved in for a number of years) doesnt mean squat in terms of the product and service being offered by the certified manufacturer. Its not a quality stamp. its a 'We follow protocol...that we made up in the first place" stamp.

Well said!!! I become somewhat infuriated by some of the comments that are posted from folks who clearly do not understand quality control and standards. It is doubtful that reputable folks Lloyds of London or any of the big registrars associated with quality assurance would register a manufacturer that has not proven they can and do address quality issues very promptly and effectively. Having said that, your response calmed my nerves immensely so thanks!

I wouldn't call it a quest for perfection but I wouldn't say its just Marketing either. Its there as a way to set controls to help assure things are done properly but it doesn’t exactly ASSURE quality because the human element to follow and do it right (and for the right reason) is still needed. For instance it helps stop people from making wholesale undocumented changes. You can still change the plumbing, controls or whatever 6 times in a given year but in this case you have to document it properly and test properly. It forces people to keep track of things on paper/computer, not just in their head. Its a way to know the I’s are dotted and the T’s crossed. If you're good it makes you a little better. If you're not good it won't help you much. It’s overused as a selling point (like most everything else) but its definitely a good thing to utilize (assuming its actually being done fully, correctly and as a control rather than just as a Marketing tool).

[footie]

We can continue these finer points of ISO or we can accept that Coast like HotSprings and the others in the Hot tub industry that are certified is a bloody good company that make a quality product. But if you want to talk about pure marketing then read Coast's logo "World's Best build Spa". That's their personal opinion which can't really be proved. Maybe it should read "One of the Best build Spa in the World"

[footie]

One should always be aware of warranty history AND read the fine print. This is one thing we discussed at length with our dealer before signing on the dotted line. Unfortunately, I do agree with Spa Goddess that there are numerous write-ups online about warranty troubles that stemmed from poor service by dealers. That's why we stated: "dealer, dealer, dealer".

If I were to have listened to all the problems associated with hot tubs then I wouldn't have bite the bullet and bought one, be that a Coast, a Hotsprings, a Sundance, a Jacuzzi, a D1 or any of the other 100+ brands out there because the pages on here and in other forums are just full of 'this is broke' and 'that's not working' and that goes for all of them because they CAN and DO all break down from time to time. Bottomline is that electric equipment break, burnout, pumps seize, seals leak and sh1t happens when you add water with electricity. It's what the dealer does when this happens that is REALLY important because it's their professionalism that makes the whole ownership experience run smoothly.

A general rule of thumb is to see how long a dealership has been in the industry of selling Hot tubs and if they have worked with these brands for a long time, if the dealer is crap then chances are the manufacturer will cut ties very quick so not to damage their reputation and the same is true a good dealer will not want to sell a crap product.

[bdubya200]

Well said!!! I become somewhat infuriated by some of the comments that are posted from folks who clearly do not understand quality control and standards. It is doubtful that reputable folks Lloyds of London or any of the big registrars associated with quality assurance would register a manufacturer that has not proven they can and do address quality issues very promptly and effectively. Having said that, your response calmed my nerves immensely so thanks!

I understand quality control and standards...and specifically ISO90001 certification, as I worked in that industry for several years. Im not saying ISO certification is bad, i AM saying that it in no way guarantees product quality. Pretty cut and dry, and not really disputable for those who actually know.