Leaking Pool

[RobFire]

Water level in my pool started dropping about 3 weeks ago at an astonishing rate. I plugged the bottom drain with a lid and weighed it down with a stone. That seemed to solve it for a couple of weeks, now it is going down at 1000 Gal/week. It appears to happen only when the pump is running. Any suggestions on methods to determine where the leaks are occurring so that I don't have to dig up my entire deck. I have heard also about a check valve sometimes being installed in the bottom drains - can't find any information about this anywhere?

[starrlitepools]

If your pool seems to be leaking when the pump is running, I would suspect a plumbing leak. Usually the best course of action is to submit each section of plumbing to a static pressure test. I'd probably start with the returns, then skimmer line then main drain. Whatever section of piping doesn't hold static pressure is your leaking line.

You may want to hire a leak detection company- they should be able to go farther in that they should have an electronic listening device- (made by Fisher) and can narrow it down to a specific fitting. Otherwise you would have to trace it backto the break.

[Pool Clown]

If your pool seems to be leaking when the pump is running, I would suspect a plumbing leak. Usually the best course of action is to submit each section of plumbing to a static pressure test.

Do you mean a pressure test? "Static pressure" is no pressure applied. You will find out faster (if you have a leak) if you apply positive pressure to the line.

[starrlitepools]

I meant sectioning off a specific section of pipe- inducing water into the line to no more than say 20 psi tops and see if it holds; if it does not there is a leak in that line. If I in any way mis-spoke or was un clear- I do apologize.

[starrlitepools]

If your pool seems to be leaking when the pump is running, I would suspect a plumbing leak. Usually the best course of action is to submit each section of plumbing to a static pressure test.

Do you mean a pressure test? "Static pressure" is no pressure applied. You will find out faster (if you have a leak) if you apply positive pressure to the line.

The American Heritage dictionary defines static pressure as "The pressure exerted by a liguid or gas, especially air or water, when the bodies on which the pressure is exerted is not in motion"

[USMC_Wifey_1345]

I agree it sounds like a plumbing leak. If there is good pressure to the pump while running I suspect a leak in the return. I would call a pool guy (or someone) to do a pressure test as well to find the leak so it can be fixed...

[Pool Clown]

The American Heritage dictionary defines static pressure as "The pressure exerted by a liguid or gas, especially air or water, when the bodies on which the pressure is exerted is not in motion"

Correct, and that is generally 14.7 psi at sea level. Unfortunately, thats the pressure of everything(inside the pipe as well as outside the pipe) at sea level. If you're suggesting to just plug the returns and suctions and see if the pool stops loosing water, i agree. I would just leave the word "static" out, it may be confusing to interpret.

[starrlitepools]

The American Heritage dictionary defines static pressure as "The pressure exerted by a liguid or gas, especially air or water, when the bodies on which the pressure is exerted is not in motion"

Correct, and that is generally 14.7 psi at sea level. Unfortunately, thats the pressure of everything(inside the pipe as well as outside the pipe) at sea level. If you're suggesting to just plug the returns and suctions and see if the pool stops loosing water, i agree. I would just leave the word "static" out, it may be confusing to interpret.

When I answered robfire I never thought I'd end up getting into a semantic argument over terminology with someone whom I never met- do not know where they hail from or what their background is.

In Florida- namely the Florida Building Code- section 424.2.12 it states with regard to new construction that "All pool piping shall be inspected and approved before being concealed or covered. It shall be tested and proved tight to the satisfaction of the administrative authority, under a STATIC water or air pressure test of not less than 35 psi for 15 minutes. So, if I am using the wrong

terminology to describe how to pressure test then so is the State of Florida where I am currently licensed as a state Certified Commercial Pool Contractor and have been for 6 years now.

I signed on to this forum to answer the questions posed and provide help- I do not post just for the sake of doing so.

[simple]

If your pool is loosing water when the pump is on, the leak is in a return line, a suction line would only suc air. Please indicate how many hrs your pump is running per day and divide 142 by that amount of hrs, let me know the answer, no real need to pressure test if you only have a pool return line (no spa, water features etc)

[Pool Clown]

When I answered robfire I never thought I'd end up getting into a semantic argument over terminology with someone whom I never met- do not know where they hail from or what their background is.

I didn't either...

All i did was suggest that the word "static" may be confusing to interpret. For someone to read that with no experience (in leak detection) might post back with "How much static should i apply?" prolonging his remedy by waiting for a reply.

Keep it simple, for us simple folk.

You shouldn't think you are getting into an argument, just because someone suggests that maybe your using word(s) that might not need to be used.

BTW, welcome to the forum...

[waterbear]

Come on guys, lets not have a p**sing contest and get back to RobFire and his request for help with HIS leak.

(Sorry, couldn't resist the bad pun).

Actually, Pool Clown makes a good point. While there are a lot of pros on here sharing their knowledge (which is a GREAT thing, IMHO) we have to remember we are sharing with with pool OWNERS and not pros so we need to K.I.S.S.

[simple]

Thnx bear, don't see how I can make it any more simple:

If your pool is loosing water when the pump is on, the leak is in a return line, a suction line would only suc air. A plumbing leak in a suction line results in a pool loosing water when the pump is off.

If he runs the pool 8 hrs a day that's about 17 gal an hr (.25 gpm)

If he runs the pool 2 hrs a day that's about 71 gal/hr or 1.2 gpm

The next step of advice would come after we find how much water he's loosing AND assuming that the 1000 gal/wk is accurate.

[Pool Clown]

I may not be seeing it here but, to me, a leak is a leak. Does it matter how much? Not really, it will be dealt with the same won't it? Expose it, and fix it. Confirm you have a leak, done. Then hire someone, or attempt your self. My advice? Hire someone to test the whole pool. Who knows, you may have more than one leak. If you did it yourself, you could be chasing leaks all summer, or worse, all year. Hiring someone to find the leak is costly, yes. But they should be able to guarantee that the whole pool is tested.

Piece of mind...

Good Luck

[waterbear]

I may not be seeing it here but, to me, a leak is a leak. Does it matter how much? Not really, it will be dealt with the same won't it? Expose it, and fix it. Confirm you have a leak, done. Then hire someone, or attempt your self. My advice? Hire someone to test the whole pool. Who knows, you may have more than one leak. If you did it yourself, you could be chasing leaks all summer, or worse, all year. Hiring someone to find the leak is costly, yes. But they should be able to guarantee that the whole pool is tested.

Piece of mind...

Good Luck

As someone who was in the industry who had leaks in his own pool I second this bit of advice. (No reason to go into the whole story here but there WAS more than one leak.)

[simple]

All I'm doing is trying to help this person with his problem, anyone not knowing or not understanding the relevance of how much water is being lost, or not knowing that a suction line sucks air while the pump is running only tells me that they have not had much experience with diagnosing and repairing plumbing issues. I'm guessing that many of you are service techs and have some plumbing, and maybe electrical, and most likely no excavation, rebar, gunite, or deck experience. Please tell me if I am mistaken, anyhow, the point is if there is a considerable leak then it is causing a cavity where ever it is whether it is under the deck, on the side of the shell etc, if this is the case I would recommend that he stops running the pool and get it addressed. I apologize for being a little out of line but don't question other peoples suggestions just because you don't know or understand

[waterbear]

All I'm doing is trying to help this person with his problem, anyone not knowing or not understanding the relevance of how much water is being lost, or not knowing that a suction line sucks air while the pump is running only tells me that they have not had much experience with diagnosing and repairing plumbing issues. I'm guessing that many of you are service techs and have some plumbing, and maybe electrical, and most likely no excavation, rebar, gunite, or deck experience. Please tell me if I am mistaken, anyhow, the point is if there is a considerable leak then it is causing a cavity where ever it is whether it is under the deck, on the side of the shell etc, if this is the case I would recommend that he stops running the pool and get it addressed. I apologize for being a little out of line but don't question other peoples suggestions just because you don't know or understand

I think we are all on the same page here. A professional leak detection company is the best route to go ASAP.

[Pool Clown]

All I'm doing is trying to help this person with his problem, anyone not knowing or not understanding the relevance of how much water is being lost, or not knowing that a suction line sucks air while the pump is running only tells me that they have not had much experience with diagnosing and repairing plumbing issues. I'm guessing that many of you are service techs and have some plumbing, and maybe electrical, and most likely no excavation, rebar, gunite, or deck experience. Please tell me if I am mistaken, anyhow, the point is if there is a considerable leak then it is causing a cavity where ever it is whether it is under the deck, on the side of the shell etc, if this is the case I would recommend that he stops running the pool and get it addressed. I apologize for being a little out of line but don't question other peoples suggestions just because you don't know or understand

I can't understand why you are getting all excited, and insulting...

No one had commented on any of your posts until you started assuming about your fellow professionals, who by the way have many years experience in this field, or they wouldn't have commented on this thread.

Welcome to the forum to you as well simple.

[simple]

"I may not be seeing it here but, to me, a leak is a leak. Does it matter how much? Not really, it will be dealt with the same won't it? Expose it, and fix it. Confirm you have a leak, done."

[simple]

PC, I don't see where I insulted anyone and I did apologize if I was out of line. Please tell me if I assumed incorrectly, I doubt that I did. Additionally, you guys are pros at the issues that I am not. The only thing I know about chlorine is that it goes in the washer with the white load (and that in it's solid form it is combined with sodium to make salt) but you understand my point. I would never contradict or second guess your advice or recommendations. With that said if I really did offend anyone, please accept my sincere apology as that was not my intention. By the way if you or quantum get any direct questions from new members it's because I refer people to you and to this site.

[waterbear]

Edit: never mind, simple was posting the same time I was.

[USMC_Wifey_1345]

I may not be seeing it here but, to me, a leak is a leak. Does it matter how much? Not really, it will be dealt with the same won't it? Expose it, and fix it. Confirm you have a leak, done. Then hire someone, or attempt your self. My advice? Hire someone to test the whole pool. Who knows, you may have more than one leak. If you did it yourself, you could be chasing leaks all summer, or worse, all year. Hiring someone to find the leak is costly, yes. But they should be able to guarantee that the whole pool is tested.

Piece of mind...

Good Luck

Ergo my recommendation to have it pressure tested. Find out how many and exactly where the leak(s) are. And honestly, I learned the hard way when my regular pool guy was out of town, how easy it can be for someone to get swindled. (Thank GAWD I'm not a very trusting person when it comes to service people AND I do my homework before people come out to do service). If they are reputable/legitimate they will allow you to

1. Pay with a credit card

2. write checks out to the company name and not demand a check made out to "cash" or a person's name

3. Will actually know which lines are the returns and which are the intakes (I know silly but I had to argu and correct the guy about 10 times before I finally kicked him out)

4. SHOW you everything he is doing to pressure test AND give you (to KEEP in hand) a FULL report of the pressure test results and will also show you what it is supposed to be like when it's a good pipe and what the gauge looks like when it's a bad/leaking pipe

5. Will be licensed, bonded, insured

6. will NOT get pissy, storm out, and curse at you when you tell them "thanks but no thanks"

[Pool Clown]

Good advice Mama. However, he may or may not agree to #4. We once hired a leak detection company for a customer, and he would not start until everyone left the back yard, saying that his tools and procedure were proprietary, and could not let us see how, or what tools he used. Annoying, but not a deal breaker. You should get that report (in hand) though.

[USMC_Wifey_1345]

Good advice Mama. However, he may or may not agree to #4. We once hired a leak detection company for a customer, and he would not start until everyone left the back yard, saying that his tools and procedure were proprietary, and could not let us see how, or what tools he used. Annoying, but not a deal breaker. You should get that report (in hand) though.

Though I see what you're saying, at that point I would have told him to leave b/c he is hiding something. I would want to see where the insurance company says he has to do that OR tell him to get more liability.... Like I said though, I'm not trusting of service people coming into my home.

[Pool Clown]

Nah, He wasn't hiding anything, figured he must be new, and let him continue, with no problem i might add.

And i see where your coming from too. Being a cusotmer, you should be cautious. I didn't mention that he was with a "franchise" company so he was bonded, licensed and all that, so i was confident that if there was a call back to be made, it would happen.

Needing this type of service, I would recommend going with the (possibly more expensive) Bigger, more well known names, that have several locations, and have been around a while, to do the pressure testing.

[USMC_Wifey_1345]

Agreed. And honestly, this is why I'm sooooooo glad I have a regular pool guy that I totally trust!!! Now I know though, if he's ever unavailable again, I'll just shut the pool down completely and wait! lol

The other thing I think is REALLY important is for pool owners to research. Know what can be the potential cause of problems, understand how their pool works and know what things do what job (ie, know what/where your filter is and how it works, same for pump etc). Each time something happens, learn all you can about the symptoms, the potential fixes and what actually fixed it.....