Onzen Frustration

[ursulal]

So is this system similar to the hot springs ace system? We are ready to make a purchase but just not sure if the new ace system is worth it or should we wait a year untill they get the bugs worked out. Dealer says it can be addded any time for about $1000.00. Thanks for your advice.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Well, I still don't seem to have any sanitizer being produced. The water samples tested at the dealer show all of the other chemicals at the correct levels. Chlorine levels at 0.

I spent another $100 on a new "better" filter. Apparently the pleated, reusable filters are "hands down" better. At least that's what the Customer Service Manager told us. If that's the case, why then does the install come with a filter of lesser quality? I want to say that the water is a little better, but it is still not even close to the showroom crystal clear.

I was told to add more salt! Apparently the manufacturers suggestion (5.5 lbs for the Kodiak) is not sufficient in order to start the Cl production. I can actually start to taste the salt, so I know the content is at or above 3500ppm. (Humans have a salt taste threshold of around 3,500 ppm.)

So the saga continues.... Thanks for your suggestions and feedback. And thanks for listening.

And to medicineman: Yes I bought the Porsche of Hot tubs, but I feel like I am driving a Fiat!

Arctic has seemd to have had some issues with this new system from the start but we've seen a few people on this site get help from talking directly to Arctic. If your dealer isn't helping you on this I'd call the factory.

[4serendipity]

Have you had a phosphate test done to your water? This is not a normal test done for hot tubs unless there is a reason to suspect that phosphate levels may be an issue. For example pretty much any rural water source will have phosphates. If the phosphate level is at all significant then you can expect that your salt system will need to work overtime to develop a sanitizer level. Because this is not a standard test for spa water in all cases, a phosphate level can go undetected longer when troubleshooting water quality issues. It is especially important for salt water systems as the generator has trouble overcoming the bacteria production in the water. Heavy doses of oxidizer can help with this, more for sodium bromide than sodium chloride systems, but the real solution is to remove the phosphates from the water.

I always use a pre filter for my clients, as well as my personal hot tub. Even if you are not on a rural water supply, metals and other contaminants in the water can play havoc with water chemistry - again, most especially with salt water systems.

In regards to the filter question you asked, pleated filters tend to work better for salt water tubs as the much more dense disposable style filters can get clogged easily from calcium formation due to high pH levels. Even through the water is softer than a traditional tub from the salt content, the calcium can be pulled out of solution easily with a high pH. Why this is significant is because most, if not all salt sanitizer generators create sanitizer with a high pH. It takes continual corrective action to keep the pH from climbing. If you don't do this, or do not do this enough, calcium hardens and the ultra fine disposable filters can plug. FYI- I love the disposable filters and recommend them to all my clients. If water clarity becomes an issue I will move them back to the reusable pleated style filters. The ease of use and fine filter medium makes the disposable filters best for everyone except those who have problems with plugged filters.

As to the relative reliability of pool salt water systems over spa salt water systems - yes this is 100% true. EXCEPT for the consideration that the generation system is not the problem, the volume of water body is the problem. Pools are huge and even a bunch of filthy swimmers have little overall impact on the overall sanitizer levels. A hot tub full of people is the relative same as hundreds of bathers in a swimming pool. Pool systems are not more reliable, to be accurate, pool and hot tub salt water systems are of equal quality. Maintaining hot tub water chemistry is much more difficult than maintaining pool water chemistry when it comes to the specific example of salt water system sanitizer levels.

I hope you find this information helpful.

S.

[Spa_Guru]

http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=20899

So the cure is apparently to rip it out and replace it entirely?

I seem to recall warning folks that this item was more a sales tool that reality.

I remember back when ozonators were going to eliminate clorine LOL.

Then all the salesmen had to learn to pronounce pseudomonas.

[fan1]

Have you had a phosphate test done to your water? This is not a normal test done for hot tubs unless there is a reason to suspect that phosphate levels may be an issue. For example pretty much any rural water source will have phosphates. If the phosphate level is at all significant then you can expect that your salt system will need to work overtime to develop a sanitizer level. Because this is not a standard test for spa water in all cases, a phosphate level can go undetected longer when troubleshooting water quality issues. It is especially important for salt water systems as the generator has trouble overcoming the bacteria production in the water. Heavy doses of oxidizer can help with this, more for sodium bromide than sodium chloride systems, but the real solution is to remove the phosphates from the water.

I always use a pre filter for my clients, as well as my personal hot tub. Even if you are not on a rural water supply, metals and other contaminants in the water can play havoc with water chemistry - again, most especially with salt water systems.

In regards to the filter question you asked, pleated filters tend to work better for salt water tubs as the much more dense disposable style filters can get clogged easily from calcium formation due to high pH levels. Even through the water is softer than a traditional tub from the salt content, the calcium can be pulled out of solution easily with a high pH. Why this is significant is because most, if not all salt sanitizer generators create sanitizer with a high pH. It takes continual corrective action to keep the pH from climbing. If you don't do this, or do not do this enough, calcium hardens and the ultra fine disposable filters can plug. FYI- I love the disposable filters and recommend them to all my clients. If water clarity becomes an issue I will move them back to the reusable pleated style filters. The ease of use and fine filter medium makes the disposable filters best for everyone except those who have problems with plugged filters.

As to the relative reliability of pool salt water systems over spa salt water systems - yes this is 100% true. EXCEPT for the consideration that the generation system is not the problem, the volume of water body is the problem. Pools are huge and even a bunch of filthy swimmers have little overall impact on the overall sanitizer levels. A hot tub full of people is the relative same as hundreds of bathers in a swimming pool. Pool systems are not more reliable, to be accurate, pool and hot tub salt water systems are of equal quality. Maintaining hot tub water chemistry is much more difficult than maintaining pool water chemistry when it comes to the specific example of salt water system sanitizer levels.

I hope you find this information helpful.

S.

[fan1]

THis post makes sense to me .. I've had a Summit since May 2011. Could never get the water anywhere close to clear. Dealer had no clue (where do they train these guys anyhow??)

Kept telling me can't use any clarifiers it'll clog the filters. Might as well not use a filter then ... !

FINALLY through a long process of elimination - I found out what was causing (I think) the milky clouding. It was the Dealer recommended SpaGuard Spa-Shock-Oxidizer.

How did I find this out ?

Long story short.

I DID use a small amount of clear clarifier ran the filtering system as directed (overnight) and the next day sparkling clear. I wanted to drink it - it looked so good.

All my chems were spot on - so I didn't add anything for about 8 days. Everything stayed great .(BTW - I didn't mention I have the ONZEN salt system too.)

One day I decided to add the recommended amount of SpaGuard Shock again ... I did it overnight. Next morning - guess what? milky cloudy again ..

Repeated the process with the water clear clarifier, less that 24 hours later, perfectly clear again.

Clearly the dealership has no problem solving skills and our warranty is wasting away. Good way to just give up Spas and go to a club to enjoy the comforts.

[Spa_Guru]

THis post makes sense to me .. I've had a Summit since May 2011. Could never get the water anywhere close to clear. Dealer had no clue (where do they train these guys anyhow??)

Kept telling me can't use any clarifiers it'll clog the filters. Might as well not use a filter then ... !

FINALLY through a long process of elimination - I found out what was causing (I think) the milky clouding. It was the Dealer recommended SpaGuard Spa-Shock-Oxidizer.

How did I find this out ?

Long story short.

I DID use a small amount of clear clarifier ran the filtering system as directed (overnight) and the next day sparkling clear. I wanted to drink it - it looked so good.

All my chems were spot on - so I didn't add anything for about 8 days. Everything stayed great .(BTW - I didn't mention I have the ONZEN salt system too.)

One day I decided to add the recommended amount of SpaGuard Shock again ... I did it overnight. Next morning - guess what? milky cloudy again ..

Repeated the process with the water clear clarifier, less that 24 hours later, perfectly clear again.

Clearly the dealership has no problem solving skills and our warranty is wasting away. Good way to just give up Spas and go to a club to enjoy the comforts.

The reason your dealer told you to not use clarifier is because of the filters, they are micro-pure, a finer media than the typical polyester ones, the local arctic dealer here found he had to replace his showroom models with Unicel C-4950s, the polyester replacement for the micro ones so he could use clarifier.

I am curious, can we get posts from any of the disgruntled Arctic owners that they were taken care of?

[Spa Master]

Hey Guys,

All Arctic Spas dealers are privately owned.

My suggestion to anyone having problems to call the Arctic Spas head office and talk to a service tech first hand. These guys are amazing

and would like to get everything up and running for you.

Contact info:

Shane

1-800-309-1744

Ext. 322

Or

shane@goarctic.com

[Spa_Guru]

Hey Guys,

All Arctic Spas dealers are privately owned.

My suggestion to anyone having problems to call the Arctic Spas head office and talk to a service tech first hand. These guys are amazing

and would like to get everything up and running for you.

Contact info:

Shane

1-800-309-1744

Ext. 322

Or

shane@goarctic.com

Don't you guys own the stores in Coeur d' Alene ID, Spokane WA, and a half dozen or so in the Seattle WA area? (The old Apollo stores)

[Ladygray68]

We have a Tundra that keeps spiking chlorine numbers. X-it does not reduce it.

Did a complete water change, and it spiked again in two days.
 

Any suggestions!?!?

[RDspaguy]

On 10/25/2022 at 6:47 PM, Ladygray68 said:

Any suggestions!?!?

Try starting your own thread, this one is 11 years dead. Include details of your maintenance routine.