Ozone Tube Filter Thingie

[jdekan]

After one year, there are very few (if any) bubbles coming out of the ozone port inside the tub. I tracked the problem to the four-inch piece of tubing shown in the photo. If I disconnect the tube at connection #2, then still no bubbles. But if I disconnect at connection #1, then bubbles start flowing like crazy. I haven't tried disconnecting in the middle. So what are those two little disc-shaped filter-looking things and what's the best way to fix this problem? Thanks - Jim

[Dr. Spa]

Check valves... one way valves

[jdekan]

Upon further troubleshooting, I found the problem to be with this little plastic insert thing right in front of the check valve at connection #2 shown in the photo above. Here's a few photos of the insert, which I guess is supposed to have a hole in it, but the hole was apparently plugged. Although I couldn't really tell - one side has an obvious hole about the size of a paper clip, the other appeared to be flat solid white plastic. I poked the hole all the way through using a needle, and the air is flowing again. But I still have no idea what this thing is or why it's supposed to be in there. Can anyone shed some light on this thing?

[djousma]

Upon further troubleshooting, I found the problem to be with this little plastic insert thing right in front of the check valve at connection #2 shown in the photo above. Here's a few photos of the insert, which I guess is supposed to have a hole in it, but the hole was apparently plugged. Although I couldn't really tell - one side has an obvious hole about the size of a paper clip, the other appeared to be flat solid white plastic. I poked the hole all the way through using a needle, and the air is flowing again. But I still have no idea what this thing is or why it's supposed to be in there. Can anyone shed some light on this thing?

I suspect you just defeated the one-way valve by poking the hole through. Maybe it was installed backwards and that is why you were not getting any flow. best advice is to get new ones from your spa dealer, and replace them, taking care to install them in the proper direction.

[Peteyboy]

Your fine with that piece out.

You must have a Jacuzzi brand.

That is a restrictor valve and I've removed plenty. You will actually get a little better ozone flow.

The check valves that the Doc pointed out is why you have no bubbles. They keep water from backing up into the ozone generator.

Try taking out one check valve at a time, maybe only one is clogged and you really only need one. They can not be unclogged - just get a new one, they are pretty cheap.

[jdekan]

I suspect you just defeated the one-way valve by poking the hole through. Maybe it was installed backwards and that is why you were not getting any flow. best advice is to get new ones from your spa dealer, and replace them, taking care to install them in the proper direction.

That little plastic piece is not part of the check valve. I pulled both of the check valves off and they are both working fine. I blew into both ends - one way was unrestricted, teh other way was blocked. This piece of plastic did not come out of that check valve, it is a separate piece that was shoved into the tube in between the two check valves.

I'm certain that the culprit is that plastic piece and not either of the check valves, because the air flow was stopped, then I poked the hole, then air flow started again - with no change to the check valves, only to that plastic piece.

So problem solved, but I'm still curious as to:

1) what is that plastic piece, and what is it's intended function?

2) why only a pin-size hole in that plastic piece? Why have 1/4" tubing in the system only to have the system eventually blocked by a piece of plastic with a tiny pinhole in it? Why not use a smaller tube, if the airflow is restricted by that plastic piece and its pinhole opening?

P.S. this is a 2008 Sundance Marin hot tub.

[Peteyboy]

I suspect you just defeated the one-way valve by poking the hole through. Maybe it was installed backwards and that is why you were not getting any flow. best advice is to get new ones from your spa dealer, and replace them, taking care to install them in the proper direction.

That little plastic piece is not part of the check valve. I pulled both of the check valves off and they are both working fine. I blew into both ends - one way was unrestricted, teh other way was blocked. This piece of plastic did not come out of that check valve, it is a separate piece that was shoved into the tube in between the two check valves.

I'm certain that the culprit is that plastic piece and not either of the check valves, because the air flow was stopped, then I poked the hole, then air flow started again - with no change to the check valves, only to that plastic piece.

So problem solved, but I'm still curious as to:

1) what is that plastic piece, and what is it's intended function?

2) why only a pin-size hole in that plastic piece? Why have 1/4" tubing in the system only to have the system eventually blocked by a piece of plastic with a tiny pinhole in it? Why not use a smaller tube, if the airflow is restricted by that plastic piece and its pinhole opening?

P.S. this is a 2008 Sundance Marin hot tub.

Did you read my post ???

They have a pin hole to restrict the flow so it is not too noisy - a complaint from some people.

You should have much better bubble flow now.

[JerimiahR]

So problem solved, but I'm still curious as to:

1) what is that plastic piece, and what is it's intended function?

2) why only a pin-size hole in that plastic piece? Why have 1/4" tubing in the system only to have the system eventually blocked by a piece of plastic with a tiny pinhole in it? Why not use a smaller tube, if the airflow is restricted by that plastic piece and its pinhole opening?

P.S. this is a 2008 Sundance Marin hot tub.

1) It appears to be a restriction device to reduce flow of ozone gas.

2) The smaller the hole, the more you can restrict gas flow. This could also help in a sense. The smaller the "gas bubbles" the greater overall surface area you get on the many ozone gas bubbles that are introduced to the water. The greater the surface area, the more oxidation you get. As for the 1/4" tubing, that's pretty much the standard size for ozone systems in hot tubs.

I've seen restrictions put into ozone lines to reduce the flow simply to please customers. I've heard of people claiming the ozone bubbles make too much noise. Put a restriction in, gas flow is reduced, and you get less bubbling noise.

To be honest, what makes me most curious is not the restriction point, but the fact that they have 2 check valves in the same line. Sort of a redundant setup. I can only assume they put two in so that they don't get a service call if a single check valve fails.

[jdekan]

That all makes sense - thanks for the replies, guys!

[Dr. Spa]

My thought was it's to reduce the speed, or amount of air traveling through the ozonator. If air travels through the ozonator too fast, it wont have enough contact time with the UV light and you wont get the proper amount of conversion of oxygen to ozone.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

My thought was it's to reduce the speed, or amount of air traveling through the ozonator. If air travels through the ozonator too fast, it wont have enough contact time with the UV light and you wont get the proper amount of conversion of oxygen to ozone.

I agree with doc. Many tubs use a mixing chamber with a restricter also. We have had numerous problems with this on the new Del's. We have to remove the chamber because it cause the flow to be reduced so much it causes flo errors. Ozone does seem to work better when the mixing chambers are working properly though.

[Peteyboy]

I have removed these from Jacuzzi systems and the ozone output is just fine.

Crystal clear water and excellent ozone smell.

[Dr. Spa]

Most people can smell ozone at concentrations as low as 3 parts per billion. But that's not anywhere near enough to have any effect on the water.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Ultra Pure spa ozone detection kit. Have you had good luck with these Dr Spa?

[Dr. Spa]

heh heh heh, forgot we offer these. Pretty new, haven't gotten any feedback.

[Fungi]

Your fine with that piece out.

You must have a Jacuzzi brand.

That is a restrictor valve and I've removed plenty. You will actually get a little better ozone flow.

The check valves that the Doc pointed out is why you have no bubbles. They keep water from backing up into the ozone generator.

Try taking out one check valve at a time, maybe only one is clogged and you really only need one. They can not be unclogged - just get a new one, they are pretty cheap.

Yeah, about a year after I got my Jacuzzi the ozone bubbles stopped. The repair guy told me "I was told to just take these out if the tub is in a vented room." Well he did so... Well that certainly did fit it. Lots of bubbles now... After that day I had problems with the PH raising... It drove me absolutely mad! When I finally figured it out I had Jacuzzi send me three of the things and the PH has been spot on from then on... I keep a very tightly monitored hot tub. Keep a journal and have a record of the last two years. Removing these restrictors really &*#$ up the chemistry...

If you are yanking these restrictors out, you are not doing your customers any favors at all!

So what's clogging them? The tubing is full of a very sticky gunk. What is it? I have not tried to clean them with some sort of solvent, but I've got three of them to try and clean. They charge $20.00 each for them.

[Dr. Spa]

Try soaking them in vinegar.

[Peteyboy]

Your fine with that piece out.

You must have a Jacuzzi brand.

That is a restrictor valve and I've removed plenty. You will actually get a little better ozone flow.

The check valves that the Doc pointed out is why you have no bubbles. They keep water from backing up into the ozone generator.

Try taking out one check valve at a time, maybe only one is clogged and you really only need one. They can not be unclogged - just get a new one, they are pretty cheap.

Yeah, about a year after I got my Jacuzzi the ozone bubbles stopped. The repair guy told me "I was told to just take these out if the tub is in a vented room." Well he did so... Well that certainly did fit it. Lots of bubbles now... After that day I had problems with the PH raising... It drove me absolutely mad! When I finally figured it out I had Jacuzzi send me three of the things and the PH has been spot on from then on... I keep a very tightly monitored hot tub. Keep a journal and have a record of the last two years. Removing these restrictors really &*#$ up the chemistry...

If you are yanking these restrictors out, you are not doing your customers any favors at all!

So what's clogging them? The tubing is full of a very sticky gunk. What is it? I have not tried to clean them with some sort of solvent, but I've got three of them to try and clean. They charge $20.00 each for them.

I've been pulling them out and all my customers have very clear spas. I do smell a good concentration of ozone (I've been going this a long time - even though I'm up there in age my nose still works pretty good - my wife says it's a honker).

[Fungi]

I've been pulling them out and all my customers have very clear spas. I do smell a good concentration of ozone (I've been going this a long time - even though I'm up there in age my nose still works pretty good - my wife says it's a honker).

I guess your customers don't bother to check the PH then.

I'm telling you I have proven this with accurate data logging. Your reply is your nose is big? Whatever...

[JAMES THE HOT TUB GUY]

I've been pulling them out and all my customers have very clear spas. I do smell a good concentration of ozone (I've been going this a long time - even though I'm up there in age my nose still works pretty good - my wife says it's a honker).

I guess your customers don't bother to check the PH then.

I'm telling you I have proven this with accurate data logging. Your reply is your nose is big? Whatever...

I have read all of these post here and I am sorry to say you are all wrong in some of the things first it is a restrictor plug to reduce the off gases of the ozone not to restrict the flow sundance and jucuzzi put these on so the off gases would not deteriorate the pillows and the cover sooner than should be they think smaller bubbles less off gases but they do not work I take them out of every spa I deliver and soaking them in vinegar will not help it. The sticky goo you call it is nitric acid coming from your ozone this is normal it will turn brown and sticky nothing you can do about it the nitric acid is what clogged it up just take my advice take it out and leave it out you dont need it anyway. The next thing is they put 2 check valves in so if one fails there is a backup so you dont pump water into your ozone and fry it it is a safety precaution to protect your generator it is cheaper to replace a check valve than it is to replace your ozone. You should replace your check valves every 2 years anyway. Last thing the ozone does not effect your PH of the water. The down fall off taking it out is you will have too buy new pillows every 2 to 3 years but what is easier buy new pillows or fight with your water chemistry on a daily basis. Once you take it out and you will see a major difference to how much easier it is to maintain your spa. I hope this helps and I am sorry if I affended any body that was not my intent

[Peteyboy]

I've been pulling them out and all my customers have very clear spas. I do smell a good concentration of ozone (I've been going this a long time - even though I'm up there in age my nose still works pretty good - my wife says it's a honker).

I guess your customers don't bother to check the PH then.

I'm telling you I have proven this with accurate data logging. Your reply is your nose is big? Whatever...

You know - I made a crack about my nose being big - I guess you didn't get it. I believe I said more than my nose is big.

We are not here to cut others down on replies...whatever?

I guess you don't feel experience with smelling ozone has any merit.

I can appreciate your data, but I can tell, from many years in the field, if I have a good amount of ozone - by smell.

One reply to James - I have noticed, again in my years in the field, that ozone does help keep the pH balanced, I don't know why.

[Fungi]

To Peteyboy,

I apologize for my crass comments. There was no reason for it.

To James,

I was adding PH down every 2 to 3 days to keep the PH below 7.9. This went on for 3 weeks. I received and installed the restrictor and had a stretch of 3 consecutive weeks where the PH bounced from 7.6 to 7.7. That is the ONLY thing that changed. I continue to have a rock solid steady PH of 7.6 to 7.7.

I use a highly accurate electronic drop tester. The tub is balanced using ChemGeeks bleach method. You can say what you want, but I'm never running a full flow ozone system again. Your mileage most certainly will vary.

[Peteyboy]

Apology accepted - whatever works is the best way to go. Glad it works for you.

[Fungi]

I have read all of these post here and I am sorry to say you are all wrong in some of the things <snip>The sticky goo you call it is nitric acid coming from your ozone this is normal it will turn brown and sticky nothing you can do about it

Really... Below quote from a chemist friend of mine. He didn't know the restrictor was made from plastic, but you should get the idea.

Nitric acid seems a little far fetched! Wiki ref. Nitric acid (HNO3)is a highly corrosive and toxic strong acid. This is the stuff you once used in High School Chemistry class that will dissolve copper pennies. It is very corrosive on metal surfaces and particularly corrosive upon ferrous metals.

I suspect these are Nitrous salts, Wiki ref. Nitrous acid (molecular formula HNO2) is a weak and monobasic acid known only in solution and in the form of nitrite salts. It makes more sense that these weak acid salts result from a small proportion of the normal atmospheric nitrogen that gets

oxidized by the ozone generator.

A basic solution such as a household drain cleaner should work to clean this such as "Drano", "The Works" or "Liquid Plumber". These are strong basic hydroxide salt solutions such as sodium hydroxide. Aluminum is one of the few metals that can be damaged by basic solutions.

One cheap way to make hydrogen gas is to dissolve strips of aluminum foil in a warm solution of sodium hydroxide. Do this in a plastic soda bottle and you can stretch a balloon over the mouth and watch it inflate. Unfortunately, hydrogen gas is highly flammable so this neat trick can be kind of dangerous especially if anyone around you is smoking at the time.

So if the restrictor is not made out of aluminum, then try soaking it overnight in one of these dilute solutions of drain cleaner. Wear some disposable dish gloves and thoroughly clean the thing after soaking. Ozone and Nitrous are corrosive oxidizing agents so eventually these things will cause corrosion to the point of mechanical failure.

[BFH]

<!--quoteo(post=104709:date=Apr 6 2010, 10:42 AM:name=Fungi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fungi @ Apr 6 2010, 10:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=104709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=104700:date=Apr 6 2010, 03:19 AM:name=Peteyboy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Peteyboy @ Apr 6 2010, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=104700"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've been pulling them out and all my customers have very clear spas. I do smell a good concentration of ozone (I've been going this a long time - even though I'm up there in age my nose still works pretty good - my wife says it's a honker).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I guess your customers don't bother to check the PH then. <img src="http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />

I'm telling you I have proven this with accurate data logging. Your reply is your nose is big? Whatever...

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I have read all of these post here and I am sorry to say you are all wrong in some of the things first it is a restrictor plug to reduce the off gases of the ozone not to restrict the flow sundance and jucuzzi put these on so the off gases would not deteriorate the pillows and the cover sooner than should be they think smaller bubbles less off gases but they do not work I take them out of every spa I deliver and soaking them in vinegar will not help it. The sticky goo you call it is nitric acid coming from your ozone this is normal it will turn brown and sticky nothing you can do about it the nitric acid is what clogged it up just take my advice take it out and leave it out you dont need it anyway. The next thing is they put 2 check valves in so if one fails there is a backup so you dont pump water into your ozone and fry it it is a safety precaution to protect your generator it is cheaper to replace a check valve than it is to replace your ozone. You should replace your check valves every 2 years anyway. Last thing the ozone does not effect your PH of the water. The down fall off taking it out is you will have too buy new pillows every 2 to 3 years but what is easier buy new pillows or fight with your water chemistry on a daily basis. Once you take it out and you will see a major difference to how much easier it is to maintain your spa. I hope this helps and I am sorry if I affended any body that was not my intent

What kind of tubing is the best for ozone? Why does the tubing clog up? I have a 3 month old Hot Springs spa and the ozone tubing clogged and stopped any ozone from getting into the spa. I was told that there wasn't enough flow through the tubing?