Fungi

I bought a new ozonator and installed it, no problem... I had one of the restrictors left over so I stuck it on the input side of the ozonator. It makes the bubble smaller ad I can tell you it's not going to clog. I'm happy!

Hey I was so frustrated I called the guy back. After further prodding I was able to get to the bottom of this. I swear some tech support people have little knowledge of the English language. They didn't switch to a new magic system that does not have the gunking up problem... Rather they changed the way it's configured. They no longer put the restrictor on the output of the ozonator, they instead put it on the input side. No brainer when you think about it... He also shared the part number. 6473-124A. So there it is. Mystery solved. Pfft... New ozonator system indeed. lol

Looks like Jacuzzi has changed the way they use the restrictors. They tell me they are now putting them on the input side of the ozonator rather than the output. Makes sense. I think I may have solved my PH drift. I think one of the check valves was defective, had a leak that was pulling some oxygen in. This would certainly raise the PH as the filter pump runs 24/7.

Help out a guy with the terminology. I assume I have a CD one now. It used to make a high pitched noise. So the UV one, does it kill by running water past the light, or does it still make bubbles? This is so frustrating. Called Jacuzzi tech support. Told them my ozonator went out. The guy tells me "they are using a new one now that doesn't gunk up with brown acid." However he later told me the tech would not give a part number! Told me to go to a dealer... So, no part number, not even a description. Why is it when it comes to hot tubs, no one seams to have any freaking idea what the hell they are talking about!

Seriously! No one knows what range the temperature varies in their hot tubs! I mean you open it to use it, and there is a temperature displayed... You have to check it before you get in right? What temperature does your hot tub range from the selected temperature?

Tub: Jacuzzi J-345 50th anniversary model Capacity: 336 gallons Ozonator: Yes Jets: 27 Power: 240vac @ 60amp, can run pumps and heater at same time. Circ Pump: Yes Use: Year round, once every weeknight, sometime twice a day on W/E by two clean average size naked humanoids. Last week we had a storm and it killed my outside light and my Jacuzzi's ozonator. I was chatting with the Jacuzzi support guy. He told me the ozonator originally used on my tub had a problem of gunking up with brown acid, and they now install a new design that does not have that problem. I asked him for the part number but he could not find it. I am an Electronic Engineer and can replace this myself, but I have no idea what to get. Can anyone shed some light on this problem? The ozonator it has now is a blue box smaller than a shoe box. Two ports, one unconnected and one with a long 1/4" tube. There are two check valves, with a flow restrictor between them, and then it connects to a fitting on a larger tube. Help me please. I don't trust it without the ozone. Thanks, Jim

Well I called the number and chatted with a friendly guy named Rick. I submitted my argument, the wide temperature range, and the filter cycle loosing time. I also went into some detail about the fact that I have replaced the 30 amp slow blow fuse inside the box 5 times. And the fact that the bad temperature sensor was causing the heater relay to constantly cycle whenever heat was called for. (extra wear and tear) He pretty much shut me down on everything. His spiel... (The filter cycle is not on an actual timer. It uses an algorithm to set filter times and it's not out of the question for them to be off by a minute or two.) I do not believe this. It most likely uses a software based timer, and if the electronics (crystal or ceramic resonator) is off causing the timer to loose time. His speil... (The high temperature, 105, is probably due to secondary heating, if the filtration cycle is running at the same time the heater is on.) I know this is not the case. I can open it in the middle of the day and see 105. The filter cycle is normally around 7:00. Why when you want 103 does it continue to heat to 105? The PID for the temp control is not right. Period... Again people. You know who you are... Can anyone chime in here with their experiences concerning temperature variations in your spas? What is normal? I can't accept that it's normal for a tub set to 103 can be anywhere from 101 to 105...

I have had my Jacuzzi for three years. Just last fall the thing was going into safe mode so called for service. The guy comes and replaces the temperature sensor. Seams it was bad from day one. This is what it was doing from day one... Set heat to 103. When temp drops to 102 the heat comes on. Heat is on for 30 seconds, OH is displayed and heat is turned off. A minute later it comes back on and repeats. Eventually the temp goes back to 103 and the heat turns off. So the guy changes the temp sensor and all is well... Except this is how it works now. Set heat to 103. When temp drops to 101 the heat comes on. Heat stays on till temp reaches 104-105, then turns off. Heats up much faster now. But it's practically impossible to predict the temperature. It can be anywhere from 101 to 105. Another issue is the timer loses a minute per day. For example set it to filter cycle at 6:30 and the following day it starts at 6:29, then the next day it starts at 6:28. Losing 30 minutes per month. Can others with a similar tub comment on how it works for them, cause I have apparently never had it right from day one. Tub: Jacuzzi J-345 50th anniversary model Capacity: 336 gallons Ozonator: Yes Jets: 27 Power: 240vac @ 60amp, can run pumps and heater at same time. Circ Pump: Yes Use: Year round, once every weeknight, sometime twice a day on W/E by two clean average size naked humanoids. Thanks in advance, Jim

Really... Below quote from a chemist friend of mine. He didn't know the restrictor was made from plastic, but you should get the idea. Nitric acid seems a little far fetched! Wiki ref. Nitric acid (HNO3)is a highly corrosive and toxic strong acid. This is the stuff you once used in High School Chemistry class that will dissolve copper pennies. It is very corrosive on metal surfaces and particularly corrosive upon ferrous metals. I suspect these are Nitrous salts, Wiki ref. Nitrous acid (molecular formula HNO2) is a weak and monobasic acid known only in solution and in the form of nitrite salts. It makes more sense that these weak acid salts result from a small proportion of the normal atmospheric nitrogen that gets oxidized by the ozone generator. A basic solution such as a household drain cleaner should work to clean this such as "Drano", "The Works" or "Liquid Plumber". These are strong basic hydroxide salt solutions such as sodium hydroxide. Aluminum is one of the few metals that can be damaged by basic solutions. One cheap way to make hydrogen gas is to dissolve strips of aluminum foil in a warm solution of sodium hydroxide. Do this in a plastic soda bottle and you can stretch a balloon over the mouth and watch it inflate. Unfortunately, hydrogen gas is highly flammable so this neat trick can be kind of dangerous especially if anyone around you is smoking at the time. So if the restrictor is not made out of aluminum, then try soaking it overnight in one of these dilute solutions of drain cleaner. Wear some disposable dish gloves and thoroughly clean the thing after soaking. Ozone and Nitrous are corrosive oxidizing agents so eventually these things will cause corrosion to the point of mechanical failure.

To Peteyboy, I apologize for my crass comments. There was no reason for it. To James, I was adding PH down every 2 to 3 days to keep the PH below 7.9. This went on for 3 weeks. I received and installed the restrictor and had a stretch of 3 consecutive weeks where the PH bounced from 7.6 to 7.7. That is the ONLY thing that changed. I continue to have a rock solid steady PH of 7.6 to 7.7. I use a highly accurate electronic drop tester. The tub is balanced using ChemGeeks bleach method. You can say what you want, but I'm never running a full flow ozone system again. Your mileage most certainly will vary.

I guess your customers don't bother to check the PH then. I'm telling you I have proven this with accurate data logging. Your reply is your nose is big? Whatever...

Yeah, about a year after I got my Jacuzzi the ozone bubbles stopped. The repair guy told me "I was told to just take these out if the tub is in a vented room." Well he did so... Well that certainly did fit it. Lots of bubbles now... After that day I had problems with the PH raising... It drove me absolutely mad! When I finally figured it out I had Jacuzzi send me three of the things and the PH has been spot on from then on... I keep a very tightly monitored hot tub. Keep a journal and have a record of the last two years. Removing these restrictors really &*#$ up the chemistry... If you are yanking these restrictors out, you are not doing your customers any favors at all! So what's clogging them? The tubing is full of a very sticky gunk. What is it? I have not tried to clean them with some sort of solvent, but I've got three of them to try and clean. They charge $20.00 each for them.

Yeah, that's basically what I've been doing. Just not on purpose. lol Well at least I mastered the saturation index... 8) Thanks for the reply.

I read that post with great interest. FYI There is another source of irritation that wasn't mentioned. If you have an ozonator, they usually have a restrictor inline to keep the bubbles small. If it is removed (bad repair technician, bad...) the result is significant PH drift upwards. But it also irritated (burned) my skin! On the backs of my calves where the filter pump outlet sends a stream of ozone "bubbles". No where else was my skin irritated. But for the longest time I didn't connect the rash with the ozonator issue.

Curious, what sort of health issues? Side effects?

Hi all, I had a pretty difficult time figuring out why my PH was climbing. Every three days I had to add PH down to keep it below 7.9. I finally found out what was causing it! A long time ago the ozonator stopped working. I called the repair guy and he came to fix it. He removed a little plastic "restrictor" inline with the output of the ozonator. He told me he was told this is "ok" with the management because my tub was not enclosed in a room. Boy was this a big mistake! With the restrictor removed the bubbles were much larger, a BIG difference. As we all learn here running air jets causes PH to rise. I complained and got them to send me a new restrictor and I installed it. Here is the bottom line... After I replaced the restrictor I have not had to add PH down in 22 days! Here's my numbers! I'm very proud of them... Temp = 103 PH = 7.6 Alk = 70 CH = 200 CYA = 21 SI = +0.16 I'm following the famous ChemGeek / Nitro bleach method. My only problem now is CC. I have "shocked" twice with 1/2 cap full of spa shock, but the CC has never gone below 1.2! I have not tried bleach shock cause we use the tub every day, and I don't want to miss not a single day. I'm adding about 6 ounces bleach each night to cover the tubs demand and our nightly dip. The Chlorine is reading around 3ppm when we use it. I've come so far. I'm nearly there. Can anyone help me understand this CC junk.

Re-read my link on Chorine Demand. You need to measure your IDLE Chlorine Demand. That means you need to shock to 10 ppm, let sit overnight (WITHOUT using it), then check FC the next day. IDLE CD is represented as a Percentage and will stay the same regardless of your FC level. What you are measuring is how much FC is needed while soaking. Nice to know, but is not the same as CD. There's no magic about using 10ppm except it makes for easier math. Perhaps my explanation is a little confusing. The bottom line is I add chlorine after use using math in my head... BUT I test it before closing the lid for the night. So I adjust chlorine for a target of 8-9ppm after we are done with it for the night. The following night I test it before we get in. So for example If I add chlorine to a level of 9ppm after use, and it's 3 the following night before use, those numbers should work in the math just as good as adjusting to 10. 3/9=.33, 1-.33=.67 or 67% My testing for chlorine needed for a soak has been from 1-1.5ppm pretty reliably. Thanks, Jim

Nah, my biggest problem is I found this forum too late. I had already used sanichlor for too long before I learned here to stop at around 20-30, then switch to bleach. I don't really use the tubs capacity to calculate anything. I only mentioned it here cause I didn't know if it was valuable information for troubleshooting purposes. Thanks again, Jim

Thanks Tony and Nitro, This really does help me. Although I don't want to I will do a refill. I will let you guys know if this solves my CC measurement issues. The tub hasta be a little more easy on the skin with a lower cya too! Thanks again and sorry to be such a pain...

Haaa!!! That explains a lot. I thought I remembered the fill volume being more like 350. But approaching 50 I decided to check on the internet to check the accuracy of my memory. It said 450... So assumed I remembered it wrong. lol Thanks for the reality check! I think mine is the 07 bought it as their 50th anniversary model. Thanks again! I'm not going crazy! lol

I measure the tub before we get in and it's around 3ppm. The average chlorine used by us when we soak is around 1ppm. For me adding 1/2 cup raises chlorine 7ppm, My math says 3 - 1 +7 = 9. The tub uses 6 overnight so we're back to 3 the next night. So it's using from 5 to 6 ppm. If I add more wouldn't the values just go up. Ok this is just as simple, sorry for using the incorrect term. So the tub uses between 5 and 6 repeatably I was using this as the chlorine demand. I have tried to hit 8 as the target for chlorine when I add after a soak. I guess using your percentage method, 3/9=.33, 1-.33=.67 or 67% I appreciate this. It does go one step further in explaining how to do a more effective shock. I also appreciate the advice to refill. The tubs getting a bit irritating now even though it's only got 2 months use. Thanks so much for your replies...

Thought about just getting one of the Taylor K-2006 tester just to know wth is going on here. $60.00 is a little much to quell my curiosity though. Plus it has a very limited range compared to the one I have. Thoughts?

Hi Tony, Let me explain my set up briefly. 450 gallon Jacuzzi with ozonator with restrictor removed by tech when original clogged. I'm using Chlorox method, but got into it late so the CYA is a little high. I have learned a lot from reading here, for example I now have no trouble getting my TA down without effecting PH! Have used test strips forever but wanted to have better control. Got this ColorQ PRO 7-PLUS Professional Hand-Held Water Analyzer and really like it. Here is the problem. When I measure CC it's from 0.93 to 2.05. I have shocked with chlorine and non chlorine methods with no relief. It's almost like the CC measurement is random. For example I shocked to 12ppm with Chlorox and the following night CC measured 1.4. The makers of the tester have sent me new reagents but the problem is the same. It must be something I'm doing wrong. Waddya think? http://www.lamotte.com/pages/pool/colorqs.html Edit: Wait... my CYA is like 100 so the Chlorine is not as effective. Does this mean I need to shock to even higher levels like 20ppm?

Ok I'm no longer listing all the results of all the tests. I think there is something wrong. I will tell you I know the CD is between 5 and 6 every day. I am using about 1/2 cup Chlorox daily. Is that "normal" In this regard I'm ok and have been since the beginning. I joke about never having chlorine when I open the tub, but honestly this has only happened a few times in the 2 years we have been using the tub. One time we were very ill and the tub wasn't opened for 48 hours. In my case that will not help. I have a severe nasal blockage and can rarely smell anything. What is low here. 5-6 seams high to me. I'm enjoying it believe me. I just find it extremely irritating I can't get results other people, and even the book with my tester, say I should get. I only measure CC when I open it at night just before we use it. From all I have read this is the correct method. It's almost random. Bounces from 0.93 to 2.05, never lower or higher. Even after I shock with both methods I get really no change. I called the place that makes the tester. They sent me a new batch or bottles of reagent. These measure FC a little lower then the original, like about 0.1ppm lower. But the CC is still well above 1. http://www.lamotte.com/pages/pool/colorqs.html There you have it. Concise, no long lists of measurements, just my basic problem. I hope someone with similar issues can help me shed some light on this.

That could be the reason your CD isn't getting lower. I wouldn't worry about your CD then. As long as you're under 50% you're good. Bleach smell IS Chlorine smell. They are the same thing. However, if it's strong smell, it's probably chloromines. Chlorine (Bleach) has a fresh clean smell. The object is to keep CC low (<1 ppm), not to measure it. If you keep your CD low, and shock with MPS once a week and as needed, your CC will stay low. I don't even bother measuring my CC, I know it's low. With that said, MPS will not last very long in the tub (hours, maybe a day). Just measure CC once a week before you add MPS. Not sure how to know something is low if there is no way to measure it? The book that came with the tester goes into a lot of detail telling you how to measure CC, but doesn't go into any detail as to what would make reading CC inaccurate. Wow... just wow... Sadly hangs head shaking slowly mumbling to self. I'm so glad I now have the required tool to not be able to measure the required things to maintain a safe tub. Really I feel like either you guys aren't as good at this as I thought, or I'm being taken on a ride for someones entertainment. I have spent hours collecting accurate information and it's been mostly ignored. I spent a great deal of time taking measurements that were of no value because of when they were taken or for some other unpublished technical reason. I have tried to learn and provide feedback and all for nothing. Chem Geek tells me the ozonator should take care of all CC overnight, Nitro tells me the ozonator is causing the CC to read high. Chem Geek tells me not to use MPS as it makes CC readings impossible, Nitro tells me MPS will make the CC read properly the following day and Chlorox will not. Just go back and read this thread. Hey I have the upper hand here as I already stated I'm stupid. But I'm not telling people I can help them am I... I have spent a lot of money and am only a little closer to resolving my problems then the day I found this forum. Is this really that diverse? I would have thought the process of taking care of a hot tub would have been nailed down and documented by someone in the year 2009.