After Market Salt Water Chlorine Generators (swcg)

[simonc]

I posted this question in the "Water Chemistry" section of this forum and didn't get any response specific to my questions. So ... I figured I try this section of the forum. If you have some experience with after market Salt Walter Chlorine Generators for hot tubs, please take a look at my questions:

I'm seriously considering getting an after market Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG) for my Jacuzzi brand hot tub. It's a small tub - about 275 gallons, 4 years old. My wife and I use it about 4 or 5 times a week.

Does anyone have direct experience with one of the aftermarket SWCG? On the web (and in a few posts in this forum), I have found mention of the following brands:

- Nexa Spa

- SpaChlorinator

- Spa Pilot

There may be other brands that I'm not aware of.

Here are my questions:

1. Which brand(s) have you tried?

2. Overall, are you happy with results?

3. Is it effective? (i.e., keep FC levels sufficient for sanitation. I don't mind adding chlorine occasionally.)

4. Does it create water/spa maintenance problems? (unstable ph? corrosive to spa pump/heater/etc?)

5. Any other observations?

I like the idea that I can just drop this thing in the tub and I don't need to worry about FC levels for normal use or when I'm away on a trip. It seems they cost about $300 and just plug into an GFI electrical outlet. It seems too easy to be true?

Thanks,

- Simon

[Roger]

I posted this question in the "Water Chemistry" section of this forum and didn't get any response specific to my questions. So ... I figured I try this section of the forum. If you have some experience with after market Salt Walter Chlorine Generators for hot tubs, please take a look at my questions:

I'm seriously considering getting an after market Salt Water Chlorine Generator (SWCG) for my Jacuzzi brand hot tub. It's a small tub - about 275 gallons, 4 years old. My wife and I use it about 4 or 5 times a week.

Does anyone have direct experience with one of the aftermarket SWCG? On the web (and in a few posts in this forum), I have found mention of the following brands:

- Nexa Spa

- SpaChlorinator

- Spa Pilot

There may be other brands that I'm not aware of.

Here are my questions:

1. Which brand(s) have you tried?

2. Overall, are you happy with results?

3. Is it effective? (i.e., keep FC levels sufficient for sanitation. I don't mind adding chlorine occasionally.)

4. Does it create water/spa maintenance problems? (unstable ph? corrosive to spa pump/heater/etc?)

5. Any other observations?

I like the idea that I can just drop this thing in the tub and I don't need to worry about FC levels for normal use or when I'm away on a trip. It seems they cost about $300 and just plug into an GFI electrical outlet. It seems too easy to be true?

Thanks,

- Simon

Never used one but it seems that adding chlorine through a generator would be adding chlorine even when you don't need it? A little dichlor after use seems awfully easy.

But I can tell you in my experience if it seems to easy to be true or to good to be true....99% of the time its not true!!

[simonc]

Never used one but it seems that adding chlorine through a generator would be adding chlorine even when you don't need it? A little dichlor after use seems awfully easy.

But I can tell you in my experience if it seems to easy to be true or to good to be true....99% of the time its not true!!

Roger -

I agree that when something seems too good to be true, it probably is. However, salt water generators have been around for sometime for swimming pools. My brother had an above ground pool for his young boys and used a SWCG/pump/filter combination unit successfully. Also, some spa manufacturers (Arctic Spa Onzen) have SWCG that are built into the system.

I'm interested in getting an aftermarket unit like this one. Unfortunately, I don't see many threads in this forum from people who have experience with these. On the bright side ... I also didn't find any threads that say "I hate my after market SWCG and I'm throwing it away."

The main problem I have with manually adding chlorine is that sometimes I forget if I haven't used the tub in a few days and then the water turns cloudy. Also, this is a problem when I go away on vacation. To "solve" this problem, I've occasionally used a floater with Triclor tablets. The triclor floater has it's own problems - hard to adjust dissolve rate, adds CYA that makes the chlorine less effective, and drives the pH down making the water acidic, not good for the tub or the people in it.

I'm hoping that someone in this forum has had at least a few months experience with one of these aftermarket units and can tell me their experience - good or bad.

- Simon

[UK Arctic Dealer]

We have used an Aquablue Spa Chlorinator for a couple of months on a showroom tub and it worked great.

The model we tested has a button that when pressed will work and turn the saltwater into chlorine for 1 hour. The rep told us that 1 hour a day was enough to maintain sufficient levels. We did this and chlorine levels where fine anytime levels dropped slightly we would just press the button again and then more chlorine would be produced. The only other product we used was ph- to bring the ph levels down. Apparently when using any swcg the ph+ levels rise so you just need to be aware of this and keep on top of it.

Overall i thought it was a good product but you just got to remember to press that button each day.

Hope this is helpful.

[simonc]

We have used an Aquablue Spa Chlorinator for a couple of months on a showroom tub and it worked great.

The model we tested has a button that when pressed will work and turn the saltwater into chlorine for 1 hour. The rep told us that 1 hour a day was enough to maintain sufficient levels. We did this and chlorine levels where fine anytime levels dropped slightly we would just press the button again and then more chlorine would be produced. The only other product we used was ph- to bring the ph levels down. Apparently when using any swcg the ph+ levels rise so you just need to be aware of this and keep on top of it.

Overall i thought it was a good product but you just got to remember to press that button each day.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the information. I think this is one of units that I'm considering. In the USA, I think it is marketed under the name of Nexa Spa. Here is the link to the Nexa Spa unit. It seems to look the same as the Aquablue unit in your store.

The unit has an optional timer (US$10). I assume this avoids having to "remember to press the button each day".

I posted my question about after market units in this forum and also the "water chemistry" section. You are the only one to respond as someone with direct experience with these types of devices. This begs the question ...

"Why don't more people have them?"

The cost seems reasonable ... about US$300. This seems like a relatively small expense given the cost of a hot tub, electrician for setup, and possible decking/landscaping that many people do, and monthly utility costs of heating the water. Granted, it's probably cheaper to buy diclor or bleach, but these do not have the convenience of having a generator. Since you sell these things, do you have a feeling for why their acceptance appears to be slow?

- Simon

[UK Arctic Dealer]

We have used an Aquablue Spa Chlorinator for a couple of months on a showroom tub and it worked great.

The model we tested has a button that when pressed will work and turn the saltwater into chlorine for 1 hour. The rep told us that 1 hour a day was enough to maintain sufficient levels. We did this and chlorine levels where fine anytime levels dropped slightly we would just press the button again and then more chlorine would be produced. The only other product we used was ph- to bring the ph levels down. Apparently when using any swcg the ph+ levels rise so you just need to be aware of this and keep on top of it.

Overall i thought it was a good product but you just got to remember to press that button each day.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the information. I think this is one of units that I'm considering. In the USA, I think it is marketed under the name of Nexa Spa. Here is the link to the Nexa Spa unit. It seems to look the same as the Aquablue unit in your store.

The unit has an optional timer (US$10). I assume this avoids having to "remember to press the button each day".

I posted my question about after market units in this forum and also the "water chemistry" section. You are the only one to respond as someone with direct experience with these types of devices. This begs the question ...

"Why don't more people have them?"

The cost seems reasonable ... about US$300. This seems like a relatively small expense given the cost of a hot tub, electrician for setup, and possible decking/landscaping that many people do, and monthly utility costs of heating the water. Granted, it's probably cheaper to buy diclor or bleach, but these do not have the convenience of having a generator. Since you sell these things, do you have a feeling for why their acceptance appears to be slow?

- Simon

Hi Simon,

we only got introduced to this about 5/6 months ago and i think up until this product most salt water generators where aimed at the pool market. Just taken a look at the Nexa unit and it looks the same as the one we have but just re-badged. Because i am an Arctic Dealer we offer a saltwater system at point of sale built into the tub (onzen) and my customers who have ordered it love although if you search on the message boards other customers have had difficulties.

I think the main reason why more people dont try these aftermarket units is because it can be seen as a high price to pay to just try something new whereas if customers want to switch from Chlorine to Bromine or Aquafinesse etc it costs very little in comparison. If you buy one please keep the message boards updated with what you think of it, i think you will love it because it does exactly what it says on the box!

[simonc]

I think the main reason why more people dont try these aftermarket units is because it can be seen as a high price to pay to just try something new whereas if customers want to switch from Chlorine to Bromine or Aquafinesse etc it costs very little in comparison. If you buy one please keep the message boards updated with what you think of it, i think you will love it because it does exactly what it says on the box!

I agree about price being an issue for "trying" something. If the unit cost only US$100, I would buy it and give it a try. At US$300+ I want to do a little research first, therefore I posted this thread asking forum members for their experience.

On the positive side ... when I did a search of forum posts regarding SWCG, I found very few posts at all, but I didn't see any posts relating a negative experience with these devices. All the ones I found were positive. Usually, one finds more complaints about a product than compliments because people are just more passionate about complaining.

If I decide to get one I will certainly share my experience (positive or negative) on this forum. But for now I'm still holding on to my $300!

- Simon

[Mark SC]

Anyone else care to comment on the after-market chlorine generators since the last post was a year ago? They definitely seem to be increasing in popularity. I've seen Nexa Spa on-line, which looks promising, and my local Hot Springs dealer carries Technichlor. Can anyone vouch for one or the other or give a brief review of their experience using it?

[Spa God]

Not thrilled so far with these systems... high failure rates, and finicky as hell to try and keep the levels balanced...

The mineral salt system "Aqua finesse" on the other hand if you can stomach the $50 a month cost is fantastic...

[yzoldman]

Anyone else care to comment on the after-market chlorine generators since the last post was a year ago? They definitely seem to be increasing in popularity. I've seen Nexa Spa on-line, which looks promising, and my local Hot Springs dealer carries Technichlor. Can anyone vouch for one or the other or give a brief review of their experience using it?

I am in the process of installing one right now. Just added the salt and waiting a little for it to disolve. Hope to have it running in an hour or two,and then I will let everyone know how it goes. The one I am using is the Technichlor. It will probably take a while to see how it works.

[Mark SC]

Spa God, is there a particular brand that you've seen trouble with? My local Hot Springs dealer says that Technichlor manufactures the system pre-installed on their tubs and their customers love it (of course, what else would a dealer say?). Yzoldman, please do keep us updated. Any one else try Technichlor or Nexa Spa and care to comment?

[hottubdan]

Spa God, is there a particular brand that you've seen trouble with? My local Hot Springs dealer says that Technichlor manufactures the system pre-installed on their tubs and their customers love it (of course, what else would a dealer say?). Yzoldman, please do keep us updated. Any one else try Technichlor or Nexa Spa and care to comment?

What do you mean that Technichlor manufacturer the system pre-installed?

We sell both the Hot Spring ACE and Technichlor. Neither is "pre-installed." We install them. And customers do love the salt systems by and large.

[armyguy]

Hottubdan,

Have you guys installed any of the Chlormaker(inline version)? If so, how are they holding up comparred to the ACE? I am really close to pulling the trigger within the next week and having my Hot Spring dealer install one in my 2008 Limelight Flair. Any experiences would be appreciated.

[Mark SC]

I was just restating what the dealer told me. They probably meant that they install it. Does the same manufacturer make the ACE?

[PoolSpaGuy30]

Hottubdan,

Have you guys installed any of the Chlormaker(inline version)? If so, how are they holding up comparred to the ACE? I am really close to pulling the trigger within the next week and having my Hot Spring dealer install one in my 2008 Limelight Flair. Any experiences would be appreciated.

salt content is higher in the chlormaker, on a 400gal spa your adding approx. 6lbs of salt and keeping salt levels around 2000ppm...whereas the ACE in a similar setup you are using approx. 2.75lbs of salt and running levels around 1000ppm

[yzoldman]

Spa God, is there a particular brand that you've seen trouble with? My local Hot Springs dealer says that Technichlor manufactures the system pre-installed on their tubs and their customers love it (of course, what else would a dealer say?). Yzoldman, please do keep us updated. Any one else try Technichlor or Nexa Spa and care to comment?

After adding salt and starting the SWG the other night I took a soak for about 45 mins. Normally I would have added about 1.5 oz of dichlor after that soak to keep CL level up. This time I did nothing. Checked chemistry the next evening and Cl =5, TA=80, PH=7.0, CA=100. Not sure why the drop in PH. Added a little Baking soda about an oz. Today the readings are the same except PH=7.8. Salt concentration is betwwen 2500 to 3000. I have lowered the power level of the SWG and plan on a soak tonight.

Normally if I had not added CL for two days after a soak I would have a Cl of less than 1. So it does appear to be keeping the level up but a little high.

[hottubdan]

Spa God, is there a particular brand that you've seen trouble with? My local Hot Springs dealer says that Technichlor manufactures the system pre-installed on their tubs and their customers love it (of course, what else would a dealer say?). Yzoldman, please do keep us updated. Any one else try Technichlor or Nexa Spa and care to comment?

After adding salt and starting the SWG the other night I took a soak for about 45 mins. Normally I would have added about 1.5 oz of dichlor after that soak to keep CL level up. This time I did nothing. Checked chemistry the next evening and Cl =5, TA=80, PH=7.0, CA=100. Not sure why the drop in PH. Added a little Baking soda about an oz. Today the readings are the same except PH=7.8. Salt concentration is betwwen 2500 to 3000. I have lowered the power level of the SWG and plan on a soak tonight.

Normally if I had not added CL for two days after a soak I would have a Cl of less than 1. So it does appear to be keeping the level up but a little high.

Tap it down a little.

[hottubdan]

Hottubdan,

Have you guys installed any of the Chlormaker(inline version)? If so, how are they holding up comparred to the ACE? I am really close to pulling the trigger within the next week and having my Hot Spring dealer install one in my 2008 Limelight Flair. Any experiences would be appreciated.

We should be installing our 1st in a week or two. We have installed @ 20 regular Technichlor 220 units. Seem to be working fine.

[hottubdan]

I was just restating what the dealer told me. They probably meant that they install it. Does the same manufacturer make the ACE?

Different manufacturers. Different technologies. ACE is controlled from hot tub control panel. Technichlor is independent.

[Spa God]

I Have never ever sold a salt system (except the mineral salts) but I have serviced a few and talked to loads of customers over the years and I find all kinds of dealers, and manufacturers that love them (with $500 profit on the system why not love it) but very few customers who love them...

Now Pool customers... that's a different story, they all love them, and they seem to work great on the larger bodies of cool water but I have never seen a really real hot tub customer (ok time for the fake customer/dealer to chime in) that likes them.

I just dont get it... you pay $1000 (ok you can pay less) for a machine that makes chlorine... Unstabalised chlorine... you still need to do all the checks and balances and in the end it, well.... It just makes chlorine...

Am I missing something here???

I dont mean to be funny but try Aquafinesse... I swear I have no vested interest here but the mineral system works great because it treats the cause of bad water instead of the symptom like the regular base salt system, chlorine, bromine, silver ion etc. does and there is no up front cost and because it controls scale so well and most customers get 6 months or more from a batch of water it works out to be a pretty good price...

Big mistake of my life... Aquafinesse inventor approaches me at a show in Barcelona a decade or so ago (or was it Lyon??) and I laugh at him thinking it is just another enzyme and dont even listen... could have been in on the ground floor...

[PoolSpaGuy30]

I Have never ever sold a salt system (except the mineral salts) but I have serviced a few and talked to loads of customers over the years and I find all kinds of dealers, and manufacturers that love them (with $500 profit on the system why not love it) but very few customers who love them...

Now Pool customers... that's a different story, they all love them, and they seem to work great on the larger bodies of cool water but I have never seen a really real hot tub customer (ok time for the fake customer/dealer to chime in) that likes them.

I just dont get it... you pay $1000 (ok you can pay less) for a machine that makes chlorine... Unstabalised chlorine... you still need to do all the checks and balances and in the end it, well.... It just makes chlorine...

Am I missing something here???

I dont mean to be funny but try Aquafinesse... I swear I have no vested interest here but the mineral system works great because it treats the cause of bad water instead of the symptom like the regular base salt system, chlorine, bromine, silver ion etc. does and there is no up front cost and because it controls scale so well and most customers get 6 months or more from a batch of water it works out to be a pretty good price...

Big mistake of my life... Aquafinesse inventor approaches me at a show in Barcelona a decade or so ago (or was it Lyon??) and I laugh at him thinking it is just another enzyme and dont even listen... could have been in on the ground floor...

unfortunately you are missing a lot, and the fact you pitch a product that costs $600+ per year gives me a big hearty lol

[Spa God]

I pitch the Aquafinesse product because I sell 800 odd kits a year and customers stay on it, and refer it business... that's about $120,000 a year through my till... so who is missing what??? The laugh is on you mate

I dont do salt because i try and really really sell what is best for my customer and I just dont believe the salt systems work well on spas (and sitting around the water cooler at any of the big trade shows the manufacturers all admit the same)...

I'm a simple man... And like many people out there I do not mind paying a premium for something that does the job right.

[Mark SC]

I pulled the trigger on the Technichlor 220 and will keep you updated (thanks for your update yzoldman; keep 'em coming). For me, the consideration was mainly health related. I recently switched to bromine, and love the ease and water clarity. However, I have been having minor throat irritation and dry skin after soaks. I know I don't with chlorine, so my choices were between a swcg or the dichlor then bleach method. I think $300 is worth it for the convenience of not having to manually add chlorine or worry about other spa users forgetting to do so. An additional benefit is that I like the feel of the salt water, as it doesn't dry skin as much, at least based on my experience with commercial salt water pools.

Spa God, your facts are wrong on several counts. Believe me, I've done hours of research on the pros and cons of salt water chlorine generators for spas. You say that the chlorine is unstabalized, but that's not the case if you have a small CYA reserve. Also, there are many who favor unstabilized chlorine as a more effective sanitizer, since uv sun protection is not often an issue with spas. You say that the manufacturers "don't believe the salt systems work well on spas." Which manufacturers would that be? The ones who make Aquafinesse and other competing systems and are losing market share? Can you give us a physical or chemical reason that the swcg on a spa would not work as well as in a pool? You mention the cooler water temps of pools, but the spa generators are specifically designed to have higher chlorine output for the higher water temps. Most automatically adjust the output based on the temperature.

[waterbear]

I pitch the Aquafinesse product because I sell 800 odd kits a year and customers stay on it, and refer it business... that's about $120,000 a year through my till... so who is missing what??? The laugh is on you mate

So you make a huge profit which is why you sell it. Nothing to do with whether it actually sanitizes water!

I dont do salt because i try and really really sell what is best for my customer and I just dont believe the salt systems work well on spas (and sitting around the water cooler at any of the big trade shows the manufacturers all admit the same)...

I'm a simple man... And like many people out there I do not mind paying a premium for something that does the job right.

Something simple that does the job right? Sounds like 3-step bromine to me!

If it does the job right then WHERE IS THE EPA APPROVAL FOR IT AS A STAND ALONE HOT TUB SANTIZER? If it does not have one then don't compare it to chlorine (whether from a SWCG or not), bromine, silver/MPS, or biguanide/peroxide because you are comparing apples to oranges!

Bottom line is this. if you want to maintain sanitized water you need a santizer and if you want balanced water, no matter how you sanitize you need to test the water and then balance it. Both need to be done on a regular schedule. "magic in a bottle" is a nice dream that all spa owners (and pool owners) want (and waste a lot of money on all the time) but it does not actually exists! However, dealers LOVE the 'magic in a bottle" approach because it helps the bottom line! (and I used to work in the retail end of the industry so I know just a little about this)

Finally, right off the Aquafinesse website on the Hot tub watercare Box page--

the box kit contains trichlor--last time I checked those were a source of chlorine so it seems that aquafinesse needs chlorine to keep the water sanitized! It also says that if trichlor is not compatible with your tub they can supply dichlor inatead! Whoops, seems it is NOT a sanitizer at all! It's just another (unnecessary) additive!

(In their pool care manual it explicitly states that it must be used with chlorine, bromine, or or oxidiser (NOT the US spelling of the word oxidizer). It then states to follow your countries guidelines about chlorine usage. Once again, not a stand alone sanitizer but an unneeded addtive!

[Spa God]

I pulled the trigger on the Technichlor 220 and will keep you updated (thanks for your update yzoldman; keep 'em coming). For me, the consideration was mainly health related. I recently switched to bromine, and love the ease and water clarity. However, I have been having minor throat irritation and dry skin after soaks. I know I don't with chlorine, so my choices were between a swcg or the dichlor then bleach method. I think $300 is worth it for the convenience of not having to manually add chlorine or worry about other spa users forgetting to do so. An additional benefit is that I like the feel of the salt water, as it doesn't dry skin as much, at least based on my experience with commercial salt water pools.

Spa God, your facts are wrong on several counts. Believe me, I've done hours of research on the pros and cons of salt water chlorine generators for spas. You say that the chlorine is unstabalized, but that's not the case if you have a small CYA reserve. Also, there are many who favor unstabilized chlorine as a more effective sanitizer, since uv sun protection is not often an issue with spas. You say that the manufacturers "don't believe the salt systems work well on spas." Which manufacturers would that be? The ones who make Aquafinesse and other competing systems and are losing market share? Can you give us a physical or chemical reason that the swcg on a spa would not work as well as in a pool? You mention the cooler water temps of pools, but the spa generators are specifically designed to have higher chlorine output for the higher water temps. Most automatically adjust the output based on the temperature.

??? which facts are wrong??? You just agreed that it is un-stabalised unless you have a CYA reserve... I think we just agreed...

the manufacturers I refer to is the hot tub manufacturers which have no ownership or interest on Aquafinesse... I dont get what you are trying to elude to...

I cannot tell you why but I know that I have 20+ customers who have salt systems on their pools and spas and they have disconnected the salt systems on the spas and gone to Aquafinesse, and they love the salt systems on the pools. go figure...

I hope it works well for you, genuinely, I just have not heard any verifiable success stories from these systems on hot tubs... I have no vested interest here man, It is highly unlikely you will buy your Aquafinesse from me :-) let us know how it goes for you though.