Temp Fall While Soaking

[Zirgalmnod]

Hello Forum

I have had my Artesian spa some time now, and have noticed that the temperature drops 2-3 degrees while soaking. Living in Sweden, Europe I use Celcius but have converted my observations to Fahrenheit hence it is not exactly the correct figures, anyway

Set (and actual) watertemp: 101

Outside air temperature: 40-45

Actual watertemp after 45 mins of soak incl jets with air on: 98

Also some wind but not too bad.

Would this seem normal to you?

Zirgalmnod

[ivan355]

We live in Ontario Canada. Ours is set at 38,drops to 36.5 then the heater comes on and heats it back up. The weather here is still just above 0c druring the day and -7c at night.

[UK Arctic Dealer]

I live in the uk and when my tub drops 0.5 degree the heater kicks in and brings it back to 38.5 which is the temp we soak at even in the Winter. Our winters get to about -7 at most so i cant comment on anything more extreme.

It is worth noting that I used to own a Chinese tub before i started in the hot tub business and when it was cold it would lose about 10 degrees after an hour in the cold !!

[Stuart A]

As I live in England I agree with UK Arctic Dealers post.

The fact that you have air jets on could be cooling the water, however a 3 degrees drop in 45 minutes does seem a bit high. It could be your heater is too small or it does not switch on with all jets running.

[Zirgalmnod]

As I live in England I agree with UK Arctic Dealers post.

The fact that you have air jets on could be cooling the water, however a 3 degrees drop in 45 minutes does seem a bit high. It could be your heater is too small or it does not switch on with all jets running.

2-3 degrees drop would be Fahrenheit, Celcius drop would be 1-1.5 max. My Dove Canyon has a 2.5 kw heater, which should be enough I believe. I have tried to find out using the manual if there are some settings or options for heating with running jets, but so far I have not found anything relevant.

How much, if at all, does your temperature drop?

/Zirgalmnod

[Roger]

As I live in England I agree with UK Arctic Dealers post.

The fact that you have air jets on could be cooling the water, however a 3 degrees drop in 45 minutes does seem a bit high. It could be your heater is too small or it does not switch on with all jets running.

2-3 degrees drop would be Fahrenheit, Celcius drop would be 1-1.5 max. My Dove Canyon has a 2.5 kw heater, which should be enough I believe. I have tried to find out using the manual if there are some settings or options for heating with running jets, but so far I have not found anything relevant.

How much, if at all, does your temperature drop?

/Zirgalmnod

2.5 KW is small. Most 220V tubs have a 4.5-5.5KW

[Mikey_in_NY]

The temp drop doesn't sound too unreasonable to me.

Sweden is on 230v so I think(?) a 2.5KW heater there is the equivalent of 5.0KW in the US. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Dr. Spa]

2.5kw is equivalent to 2.5kw, not 5.0kw.

2kw to 3kw heaters are also pretty standard for most of Europe (homes there don't have the power availability US homes have).

[Zirgalmnod]

The temp drop doesn't sound too unreasonable to me.

Sweden is on 230v so I think(?) a 2.5KW heater there is the equivalent of 5.0KW in the US. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Hi Mikey,

yes Sweden is on 230V like most of Europe. I did some research, and according to some links on the web, Sundance claims to have a 5.5 kw heater, whereas Hostspring has a 1.5 kw heater. Info from their state of the art lines Cameo 880 series or HS Grandee. So I am really confused.

I will also talk to my dealer and hear his version, he has been in the trade for many years and worked with many different brands.

But I guess that you all experience some noticable drop in temperature while soaking. I am just a little worried that with falling outside air temperature, that the temp drop will be even worse...

/Zirgalmnod

[Mikey_in_NY]

2.5kw is equivalent to 2.5kw, not 5.0kw.

2kw to 3kw heaters are also pretty standard for most of Europe (homes there don't have the power availability US homes have).

Are you sure? I took a look at the manual for my tub (Hawthorne), and in the US the circuit can be 40/50/60 Amp, whereas in Europe Sundance specify 20/30/40 Amp for the same model tub. Isn't the load (amperage) on a 110v circuit higher than the load on a 230v cicuit for an equivalent power demand?

Also, does this mean a tub in Europe will not only heat slower, but the pumps will also have a lower output (less power)? I'm willing to stand corrected but I find this hard to believe as there's plenty of countries in Europe, including Sweden, where it can get just as cold as the coldest parts of the US.

[intercooler]

2.5kw is equivalent to 2.5kw, not 5.0kw.

2kw to 3kw heaters are also pretty standard for most of Europe (homes there don't have the power availability US homes have).

Are you sure? I took a look at the manual for my tub (Hawthorne), and in the US the circuit can be 40/50/60 Amp, whereas in Europe Sundance specify 20/30/40 Amp for the same model tub. Isn't the load (amperage) on a 110v circuit higher than the load on a 230v cicuit for an equivalent power demand?

Also, does this mean a tub in Europe will not only heat slower, but the pumps will also have a lower output (less power)? I'm willing to stand corrected but I find this hard to believe as there's plenty of countries in Europe, including Sweden, where it can get just as cold as the coldest parts of the US.

I live up north in Norway and in my new Hot Spot Mallorca the temprature drops from 40C to 38C within one hour, this happens in cold weather, -10C. Is this normal or is the heatin element to small? (1000W 230V 50Hz.) Before i bought it the dealer told me that the heater was big enough but I am not sure.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I live up north in Norway and in my new Hot Spot Mallorca the temprature drops from 40C to 38C within one hour, this happens in cold weather, -10C. Is this normal or is the heatin element to small? (1000W 230V 50Hz.) Before i bought it the dealer told me that the heater was big enough but I am not sure.

This may be similar to the case of running 110V in the US where the heater is disabled when the jets are on high. In such a case it doesn't matter what size heater you have because the issue it can't be on while the jet pump is on high due to current draw and thus you get a temp loss. People who soak for long intervals and run the jets on high for an extended amount of time run into this in certain setups. I'm not sure what the power setup is like in Sweden or Norway but you could ask the dealer if this is the issue and if so all you can do is cut down on jet use in extreme cold weather or power differently (if even an option).

[Dr. Spa]

This may be similar to the case of running 110V in the US where the heater is disabled when the jets are on high. In such a case it doesn't matter what size heater you have because the issue it can't be on while the jet pump is on high due to current draw and thus you get a temp loss.

bingo

[Dr. Spa]

2.5kw is equivalent to 2.5kw, not 5.0kw.

2kw to 3kw heaters are also pretty standard for most of Europe (homes there don't have the power availability US homes have).

Are you sure?

absolutely

I took a look at the manual for my tub (Hawthorne), and in the US the circuit can be 40/50/60 Amp, whereas in Europe Sundance specify 20/30/40 Amp for the same model tub.

Read spatech below. The amp rating of the overall spa has little if anything to do with the amp rating of the heater

Isn't the load (amperage) on a 110v circuit higher than the load on a 230v cicuit for an equivalent power demand?

This has nothing to do wit the kW rating of a heater.

amp times volts equals watts...just do the math. a kilowatt is a kilowatt is a kilowatt...at least in this universe.

Also, does this mean a tub in Europe will not only heat slower, but the pumps will also have a lower output (less power)?

additionally, 1 hp is 1 hp is one hp.

I'm willing to stand corrected but I find this hard to believe as there's plenty of countries in Europe, including Sweden, where it can get just as cold as the coldest parts of the US.

Again, power avaiilable to homes in Europe varies GREATLY from the US. Here it's not unusual to have a 200 amp service running to your home. There, 50 amps max is not unusual. And that's 50 amps to run EVERYTHING in the entire home.

[ThomasSE]

Hi.

I'm experiencing similar problems as Zirgalmnod. I own a Hotspring Limelight Pulse and is also located in Sweden.

I've looked at the specs in the manual from the web (http://www.limelighthottubs.com/) says the heater is 4000 watts. However, in the printed one I got with the tub it says 1500...

Seems at bit small for 380 gal/1430 litres?

Wonder if I can switch the heater to a more powerful one...

I'll noticed that when I run both jets, the heater turns off.

//Thomas

[Voice]

The short answer is it's normal.......

As a company we suggest in colder climates to run your hot tub 2 degrees higher than where you like it to be......Even better we would like to see customers run their spas @ the max temp in the winter time......This way if the power goes out for any amount of time you have more time before your spa will freeze.....With any luck the power comes back on before you have to drain.

Think of it like wearing a winter hat......as soon as you take it off you cool down dramatically....70% of your heat loss is from your head, as heat rises......same with your roof in your house, it is the biggest area of heat loss.....so as soon as you open your spa you are going to lose heat....plain and simple

here in Ontario it is not strange to see -25 C temps with a wind chill in the winter, and we will lose 2-4 degrees instantly when opening the spa.....

if you have more then 3 pumps, the spa "could" not be heating when all pumps are on as well

[Mikey_in_NY]

2.5kw is equivalent to 2.5kw, not 5.0kw.

2kw to 3kw heaters are also pretty standard for most of Europe (homes there don't have the power availability US homes have).

Are you sure?

absolutely

I took a look at the manual for my tub (Hawthorne), and in the US the circuit can be 40/50/60 Amp, whereas in Europe Sundance specify 20/30/40 Amp for the same model tub.

Read spatech below. The amp rating of the overall spa has little if anything to do with the amp rating of the heater

Isn't the load (amperage) on a 110v circuit higher than the load on a 230v cicuit for an equivalent power demand?

This has nothing to do wit the kW rating of a heater.

amp times volts equals watts...just do the math. a kilowatt is a kilowatt is a kilowatt...at least in this universe.

Also, does this mean a tub in Europe will not only heat slower, but the pumps will also have a lower output (less power)?

additionally, 1 hp is 1 hp is one hp.

I'm willing to stand corrected but I find this hard to believe as there's plenty of countries in Europe, including Sweden, where it can get just as cold as the coldest parts of the US.

Again, power avaiilable to homes in Europe varies GREATLY from the US. Here it's not unusual to have a 200 amp service running to your home. There, 50 amps max is not unusual. And that's 50 amps to run EVERYTHING in the entire home.

Understood - I stand corrected!

[Stuart A]

Just been in the spa for just over an hour. The outdoor temperature is 8 degrees C. I had two of the three main pumps running all the time. After about 20 minutes the temperature went up from 37 to 37.5. When I got out the temperature had dropped back down to 37. As the preset temperature was set at 37 the spa did not call for the heater to switch on.

We have a 100 amp supply into our house our spa has a 32 amp supply. In England we are able to take diversity into account when installing certain circuits, however diversity will not apply to a spa circuit.

When all the main pumps are on in our spa the heater does not come on.

[ThomasSE]

Again, power avaiilable to homes in Europe varies GREATLY from the US. Here it's not unusual to have a 200 amp service running to your home. There, 50 amps max is not unusual. And that's 50 amps to run EVERYTHING in the entire home.

200? That's a lot. Wonder why we in EU have so much lower amps.

Anyway, I'm not an electrician but my tub is connected through 2*20 amps. The heater on 20 and the pumps on 20.

Shouldn't I be able to run the heater AND the pumps at the same time? The heater is only 1500 watts..

It will be interesting to see if the heater can keep up when the temp is going below -5 ºC / 23 ºF, so far we had a relative "mild" fall/winter here in Sweden (Stockholm area)...around 8 ºC /46.4 ºF