Well Water Issues & Non-chlorine Sanitizers

[pacificm]

Hot Tub Set Up & Water Issues

I have a Snorkel cedar hot tub with well water and an ozonator. For years I was using chlorine with Nature 2. When I would first add the water to the tub, it was clear. Then, when I'd add the sanitizer, the water would cloud up to a brownish color. I would then add a product called Metal Free and the water would clear up.

For the last year I've been using Clear Water Blue in an attempt to not use Chlorine or Bromine. Clear Water Blue also clouds up the water with a brownish color - except the manufacturer has informed me that I cannot use Metal Free to clear up the water. Clear Water Blue requires daily shocks which bring about wild swings in the PH and alkalinity and need daily attention. And, unless I shock it with chlorine periodically, the water eventually develops a musty smell.

I've attempted using an Eco-One Pre-Filter and while it helped some, the problems still persists. The Eco-One vendor suggested I have the water tested and possibly get an iron reduction filter. The water was tested and was found to have a high iron content. A local water treatment vendor recommended a Pentek RFFE20-BB Radial Flow Iron Reduction Cartridge.

Questions

Any suggestions on the following:

A non-chlorine/bromine sanitizer that would work well in the above situation?

How to maintain clear, fresh smelling water with well water and a high iron content?

Any recommendations on the Pentek RFFE20-BB Radial Flow Iron Reduction Cartridge?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

First, there are no EPA approved sanitizers that contain no bromine/chlorine or biguinades. Even eco one you are suppose to keep a risidual of chlorine in the tub, and I personally tried it last year and had poor results.

By the sounds, the metal remover then the addtion of nature 2, (try their low chlorine recipe) was what was working for you. Is there a medical reason you switched from that? If you go back to the N2. use the metal remover before adding the N2 stick or adding any other chemicals. You should be waiting at least 24 hours before adding N2 after adding metal remover anyway since you would be removing the metals N2 is adding also.

[Dr. Spa]

Do you have a circulation/filtration system on the tub?

[pacificm]

Do you have a circulation/filtration system on the tub?

Yes, I do have circulation/filtration system that is connected with the ozonator.

[pacificm]

First, there are no EPA approved sanitizers that contain no bromine/chlorine or biguinades. Even eco one you are suppose to keep a risidual of chlorine in the tub, and I personally tried it last year and had poor results.

By the sounds, the metal remover then the addtion of nature 2, (try their low chlorine recipe) was what was working for you. Is there a medical reason you switched from that? If you go back to the N2. use the metal remover before adding the N2 stick or adding any other chemicals. You should be waiting at least 24 hours before adding N2 after adding metal remover anyway since you would be removing the metals N2 is adding also.

The reason for the move away from chlorine is that I was experiencing health issues related to the chlorine. I'm a swimmer and am in an ozonated/chlorinated pool several times a week. Plus, we use our hot tub daily. After a lifetime of absorbing chlorine in my body, I began to have some reactions to the chlorine.

Therefore, I've begun to explore options. Are the copper-based approaches effective? Has research demonstrated that they are or not? I'm also curious what readers of this forum have experienced.

[Fungi]

The reason for the move away from chlorine is that I was experiencing health issues related to the chlorine. I'm a swimmer and am in an ozonated/chlorinated pool several times a week. Plus, we use our hot tub daily. After a lifetime of absorbing chlorine in my body, I began to have some reactions to the chlorine.

Therefore, I've begun to explore options. Are the copper-based approaches effective? Has research demonstrated that they are or not? I'm also curious what readers of this forum have experienced.

Curious, what sort of health issues? Side effects?

[pacificm]

The reason for the move away from chlorine is that I was experiencing health issues related to the chlorine. I'm a swimmer and am in an ozonated/chlorinated pool several times a week. Plus, we use our hot tub daily. After a lifetime of absorbing chlorine in my body, I began to have some reactions to the chlorine.

Therefore, I've begun to explore options. Are the copper-based approaches effective? Has research demonstrated that they are or not? I'm also curious what readers of this forum have experienced.

Curious, what sort of health issues? Side effects?

Flu-like symptoms, eye inflammation. I've spent a life time in the stuff. I feel like I'm a human guinea pig for chlorine. Let's face it, chlorine was used by the military to kill people. It is potentially very dangerous. I've experienced some of its devastating health dangers and want to avoid it.

This led me to do research on chlorine. There are many studies which confirm health risks - http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swimming/chlorine/chlorine.htm

Which brings me back to my initial question for this forum - "Are there viable alternatives to chlorine, and if so, what are they?"

[missyk97]

http://www.nature2.com/spaproducts/cense.asp

I am going to try to order this, it's suppose to go with the N2, I've been using renew(I think, it's the non-chlorine stuff). I am not sure if anyone has any experience with it--but I like the fact that it's got added aeromatherapy.

[chem geek]

The only non-halogen (no chlorine or bromine) approaches for sufficiently fast sanitation are Nature2 with non-chlorine shock (MPS) and Baqua/biguanide/PHMB. A lot of people use the former and like it, but MPS is a strong oxidizer that can be irritating to some though when used with Nature2 it can be less irritating since the small contaminant in MPS is fairly quickly broken down when silver ions are present.

[Glid]

For the next fill, use an charcoal activated inline filter for iron removal. Available through amazon for about 30 bucks total for a 10,000 gallon RV filter with hose fittings on both ends.

[pacificm]

The only non-halogen (no chlorine or bromine) approaches for sufficiently fast sanitation are Nature2 with non-chlorine shock (MPS) and Baqua/biguanide/PHMB. A lot of people use the former and like it, but MPS is a strong oxidizer that can be irritating to some though when used with Nature2 it can be less irritating since the small contaminant in MPS is fairly quickly broken down when silver ions are present.

I've used Nature 2 before and it does require using some chlorine as well - http://www.nature2.com/about/.

It works fine, but once again, you're using chlorine which I'm attempting to avoid if possible.

[chem geek]

The chlorine that is used with Nature2 can be temporary -- used initially for shocking and then used only "as needed" if there are issues with water clarity, etc. I would presume that you would only use the tub in between those times when there would be no chlorine present. If necessary, you could use hydrogen peroxide to get rid of the chlorine and switch to MPS more quickly (say if the chlorine shock wasn't dropping in FC quickly enough). It's true that if you positively cannot have any chlorine in the tub ever, then another alternative such as Baqua/biguanide/PHMB would be a better choice (assuming you would have the same problem with bromine as with chlorine).

[Rivendell]

Hot Tub Set Up & Water Issues

I have a Snorkel cedar hot tub with well water and an ozonator. For years I was using chlorine with Nature 2. When I would first add the water to the tub, it was clear. Then, when I'd add the sanitizer, the water would cloud up to a brownish color. I would then add a product called Metal Free and the water would clear up.

For the last year I've been using Clear Water Blue in an attempt to not use Chlorine or Bromine. Clear Water Blue also clouds up the water with a brownish color - except the manufacturer has informed me that I cannot use Metal Free to clear up the water. Clear Water Blue requires daily shocks which bring about wild swings in the PH and alkalinity and need daily attention. And, unless I shock it with chlorine periodically, the water eventually develops a musty smell.

I've attempted using an Eco-One Pre-Filter and while it helped some, the problems still persists. The Eco-One vendor suggested I have the water tested and possibly get an iron reduction filter. The water was tested and was found to have a high iron content. A local water treatment vendor recommended a Pentek RFFE20-BB Radial Flow Iron Reduction Cartridge.

Questions

Any suggestions on the following:

A non-chlorine/bromine sanitizer that would work well in the above situation?

How to maintain clear, fresh smelling water with well water and a high iron content?

Any recommendations on the Pentek RFFE20-BB Radial Flow Iron Reduction Cartridge?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

I'm brand new on this forum - first posting- but have some thoughts that might be helpful.

By way of background, I've had hot tubs since the early 70's, starting with a 1,000 gal cypress pickle barrel with a wood fired heater and now have 2 "modern" (ie:1998) D-1 spas, one at my home and one at a vacation rental cabin I own. One is filled with well water, the other with spring water. Over the years I've tried most sanitizing systems, starting with a 3-day drain/fill cycle, then chlorine, bromine, ozone, silver ions, and biguanide.

Regarding your iron problem, I recently had an iron problem on my well water system and, long story short, it turned out to be the iron pipes in the well which, after 15 years, had developed a coating of rust. I had the pump pulled (375 foot well) and replaced the pipes with pvc. Problem solved. May not apply to your situation but maybe something to consider.

I also was searching for a non-chlorine/bromine system and, especially for my rental cabin, something simple and low-maintenance. For over 2 years now I've been using Baquaspa on both systems and have been happy with the results. Now, I know from reading posting on this site and others that folks, including dealers, service people and bathers, either love or hate biguanide systems. I like it because the sanitizer is much more stable and doesn't require daily attention, a real plus for my cabin guests, and it doesn't have any offensive or lingering odor.I also have guests who cannot tolerate chlorine/bromine. I generally treat every 4-7 days depending on usage and do a water change every 3 months.

The drawbacks to Baquaspa, in my experience, are 1) it took a little getting used to and initially I had a problem with a scum line which was probably due to residual chlorine from the changeover. Once I had drained and filled a couple of times (over several months) the problem mostly disappeared. Now a quick swipe around the water line when treating takes care of any minimal scum. 2) One tub has a smooth, white, Ultralife liner and I have noticed some staining in the seats and elsewhere which is difficult to remove. My other tub has a darker, textured Granitex liner and any staining isn't obvious. 3) I have noticed a rough, plaque-like buildup at some spots, particularly around the filter intakes. I'm not sure if it's calcium buildup or maybe etching from the peroxide. I know some manufacturers' warranties are voided if Baquaspa is used, maybe related to this. I've never noticed problems with deterioration of light lenses reported by others. Since my tubs are used, 1998 models and I do all my own maintenance and service I'm not too concerned.

You'll hear some opposing views I'm sure but for me Baquaspa has been very effective and low maintenance and a good alternative to chlorine/bromine systems.

Gordon Watkins

Ozark Mtns