lebrocoli Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Please help me as I and the technician does not know what is going on: A brand new 2010 Jandy LJ Legacy pool heater was installed with natural gas. Plumbing and electricity was hooked-up and all seemed good so we turned it on for the first time. All was good. The digital display was OK and we wet the temperature to 85 degrees. The heater lit and all was good. After an 1 hour or so, the heater stopped working. The digital display was dead and the 2 amp fuse was dead. So we changed the fuse BUT the fuse burned right away. So the technician changed the transformer, the ignition board and the control board. We turned it on again, and all was good again. The digital display was good so we set it up to 85 degrees and the heater lit and all was good. Believe it or not, an 1 hour later or so, the heater stopped working and the digital display was dead and the fuse was dead. Just to test, we put another fuse in BUT it burned right away again. I ask the electrician to come back and he check the whole setup and he said that all was fine. The only thing that is strange is that because the water is cold ~ 70 degrees, I get water puddles at the bottom of the heater, ONLY when the heater is turned on. PLEASE HELP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Call Jandy and go thru their warranty service. Or... The only thing left is the igniter. If you disconnect the two wires that have the fuses, and measure the resistance (of the wires w/o the fuses.) it should be between 25 and 300 ohms, usually 60 to 80 ohms. But how the igniter is wrecking those two boards i don't know. From what i can see, you have replaced about all the electronics, minus the igniter. The puddles are condensation, that should go away as you go up thru the sixty's and early seventies. Or something like that, can't remember. Some one else could probably give you those numbers if you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hey, thanks a lot for your answer! The technician is coming in again today to change some pieces and we will start it up again so will see. At the same time we will try to measure the resistance like you said. I am starting to believe that this is a Design issue since it is a brand new model and, according to the technician, all the electronic pieces inside are different from the previous model. I am really starting to feel like Jandy is sh.. I just do not know what is the experience with the other owners. Sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I called the technician at lunch time and he said that Jandy decided to ship another new unit. I doubt that this will fix the issue but will see. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfixit Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 I can't see after changing all the electronics that the same issue happened again... either the electronic design is flawed, in which case a new unit will not help you because it would do the same thing..or.. there is a different electical issue going on, which I suspect is more likely. Even though your electician says all is ok does not mean that all really is ok. I recently changed a circuit board on a brand new hot tub after the electrician wired 330v into it instead of 220v. point is, they make mistakes. I suggest that you read your installation and wiring instructions so that you can be armed with questions, often the instructions will give warnings or advice about wiring that is essential to the operation of the unit that he may have missed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Ok. I will let you know how is the new unit. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well, Assuming that the electrician is happy and I have also verified the end-to-end setup and all seems perfect. How can the heater work flawlessly for 1 hour? That does not make any sense. How can this be possible? Why would the fuse be happy for the first hour and then not be happy anymore? That looks like a Design flaw? Any ideas? Thanks everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Well, Assuming that the electrician is happy and I have also verified the end-to-end setup and all seems perfect. How can the heater work flawlessly for 1 hour? That does not make any sense. How can this be possible? Why would the fuse be happy for the first hour and then not be happy anymore? That looks like a Design flaw? Any ideas? Are you saying that the second heater did the same thing? Or are you just asking about the first heater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Is this the heater you have? Jandy Legacy LRZE? What is the supply voltage as tested? What voltage is the heater configured to accept? What is the Natural gas supply pressure? The heater comes factory-wired intended for use with 240 Volt, 60 Hz AC field electrical supply. To use 120 Volt, 60 Hz AC requires rewiring of the heater. This must be done by a certified electrician only, as with all wiring. To wire the heater for 120V, 60 Hz AC, follow the alternate 120V wiring method depicted in Figure 16. Additionally, the ignition control module must be rewired. The wire from the terminal marked IGN/240 must be removed and placed on the terminal marked IGN/120. http://clubp.info/emblast2/pdfs/LRZE%20I-O%20Manual.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Pool Clown, The 2nd unit has not been installed yet. I was asking about the first unit, once the first unit was repaired. It worked again for 1 hour and then it was done. Quantumchromodynamics, Yes, it is a Legacy LRZE but it is a 125000 BTU unit. So it half the size I would say. The supply voltage at the unit is ~120 Volts. And Yes, the unit was re-wired for 120 Volts, as it was factory wired for 240 Volts. As for the pressure of the gaz, I have sincerely no clue. It is Natural Gaz. But let's say that I would have a pressure problem, I would assume that my digital display would work and I would have some kind of error code displayed. But the digital display is dead everytime the fuse blows. I read the voltage at the output of the transformer and it was ~28 Volts, once the unit was toasted. I found that was a little bit as it is supposed to output 24 Volts but the Jandy guy on the phone said that it was within the range. Here are some Pics: Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 The supply voltage at the unit is ~120 Volts. And Yes, the unit was re-wired for 120 Volts, as it was factory wired for 240 Volts. My first guess would be that the unit was not wired properly. Here is the link to the Installation and Operation Manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Well, the unit is wired like it is shown on the pic. 1 - The ignition wire is connected to the 120 pin. 2 - The W/R wire is connected to the left side of the plate, where is connected all the other red or white wires. 3 - The W/BK wire is connected to the right side of the plate, where is connected all the other black wires. That matches what is shown in the documentation. If there anything else to be done, please tell me because I really do not know what is going on. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 What did you find out about the HSI resistance? The 2 wires to measure the resistance are the two white wires that are zip tyed together in the middle of pic. Also the connection of the one white wire looks sketchy, where it has to connect with two other wires on the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I took some measurements tonight. Resistance between the white wires: 71,4 Ohms Voltage at the output of the transformer: 28,8 Volts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Are you going by figure 16 on page 22 of the Installation manual that shows "Alternate 120 VAC wiring"? It shows 4 connection screws. 1 2 3 4 Pin 1: Black hot 120 volt from supply and white with black trace. Pin 2: Black from transformer and black from Ignition Control L1. Pin 3: White neutral from power supply, white from Hot Surface igniter, and white with red trace. Pin 4: Red. Carefully study the difference between the 240-volt wiring and the 120-volt wiring. From your description, I think your heater is not wired correctly. Also, what is the exact voltage from the supply as measured by a voltmeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Here is the diagram. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 Here is the link to the Installation and Operation Manual. I think that the online diagram is easier to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted September 30, 2009 Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 I took some measurements tonight. Resistance between the white wires: 71,4 Ohms 71,400 Ohms? or 71 . 4 Ohms? normally that should be 60 to 80 ohms. Voltage at the output of the transformer: 28,8 Volts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted September 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2009 71.4 Ohms so it seems OK. Does everybody agrees that, from an Electrical Point of View, Pin 1 and Pin 2 are the same point and Pin 3 and Pin 4 are the same point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 No, they are not the same point. Connections 1, 2, 3 and 4 need to be treated as separate points. Look at the 240-volt diagram. The manufacturer made a point of showing the four connectors as separate. If there were only two points, the manufacturer would have only shown two connection points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, I feel that this is impossible since there is a metal plate in between 1&2 and 3&4. So they have to be the same point. Also the voltage at the input of the heater is 119.2 Volts. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 OK, I guess that I don't understand why they show four separate points. It's somewhat confusing and unclear. Do you think that 1 and 3, and 2 and 4 are the one that should be connected? The orientation of top and bottom suggest that 1 and 3 are connected, but the shape suggests that 1 and 2 are connected. They should have the terminals labeled to avoid confusion. Edit: It should have been obvious to me that 1 and 3 could not be connected because that would mean that the two power wires would be connected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quantumchromodynamics Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 You are assuming that the terminal block in the diagram is rotated 90 degrees clockwise from its orientation in the heater. If it isn't, then the heater is miswired. Perhaps a call to the manufacturer is in order to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lebrocoli Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Well, it's easier than you think. When the unit comes in, all the black wires are on the same side and all the red or white wires are on the same side of the plate. So when you re-wire for 120 Volts you just put the black on the black side and the red on the red side. Then you changed your ignition wire for 120 Volts and that is it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pool Clown Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Update: Brocoli, didn't see your last post but you got it right. I'm not sure why this is confusing. The heater is factory wired for 220, using two wires from the high side of the x-former. If you want to use 110 you will use all for wires from the x-former high side, instead of two wires (220). Then you change the HSI wire from 220 to 110 on the fire box (ign box). That is the reason they use a buss, (last pic in this post) so the voltage can be changed easily. Also makes a good test point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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