Dimension One Lotus Bay - To Buy Or Not?

[twiggy]

We are looking at the D1 Lotus Bay and liked all the bells and whistles but then read some bad reviews on this forum about repair problems. Does anyone out there have good experience with this spa? We were also looking at Jacuzzi and Hot Springs. We really do not want to buy a repair headache. Any input is welcome.........

[Wannago]

I double that...

I've been lurking here for awhile, and finally decided to register and join-in.

We too are looking for a new tub and don't mind spending decent money to get a quality product.

I was in at the local D1 dealer today, and ended up dealing with the Sales/Service manager directly. He definitely knew his stuff, especially about the technical aspects of the tub. He was a nice guy and said all the right things to make me feel comfortable with dealing with his Company.

I really liked the Lotus Bay, as it was just the right size for our needs and loaded with lots of features. The tub was listed (retail) at $21,000.00 Cdn. It was marked down to $18,499.00 Cdn. The fellow offered me a "builder's price" of $16,999.00 Cdn. This price includes delivery, cover, cover lifter, stairs, chemical pack, etc. Naturally, for me to be assured of "great price" he wanted me to put down a deposit to secure the deal.

As we won't be actually buying the tub for another month - possibly two, I decided to drop a $500.00 deposit, which is completely refundable. The wife and I can go in and pick out the surround color and style of our choice, or even pick a different model with the same "builder pricing" discount.

So, all you experts, what are your thoughts? Is this make/model worth this much money? Anything I shoudl know about D1 or this model?

This will be my third hot tub. The first became an innocent victim of a divorce ( still miss that tub!). The second was a cheapie (Cal Spas Victory series, small, round, 9 jets (Wow!) that ironically we picked up cheap from our neighbours as THEY were going through a divorce. The motherboard on that POS died last winter, right in the middle of a 2 week -35 degree cold snap, and I didn't notice until I flipped the cover one day and saw a giant ice cube. So, we are going to haul that one to the dump and want to replace it with a "keeper", a good tub we can plan on keeping for many many years. Is the D1 Lotus Bay a good choice?

Thanks.

[Roger]

Not sure where the bad press came from other than one or two posters and there problems but D1 in my opinion is one of the best on the market and my personal favorite. They have a long standing reputation for longevity, reliability and innovation.

I personaly am not a fan of the bay collection but prefer the reflections series. And the Nautilis is my favorite.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

Not sure where the bad press came from other than one or two posters and there problems but D1 in my opinion is one of the best on the market and my personal favorite. They have a long standing reputation for longevity, reliability and innovation.

I personaly am not a fan of the bay collection but prefer the reflections series. And the Nautilis is my favorite.

D1 had a few quality issues such as controls that probably showed up on a search but it was more of a glitch as they make a solid spa. I'm also not a fan of the Bay series as it’s a bit flashy and expensive for me but it’s more of a taste/value thing. Every spa maker has customers that have had issues but overall they make a good product and even though the posts you may have read are real where some people had issues I don't think that means everyone should shy away from them based solely on that.

[hottubdan]

Standard answer is shop w/ better brands. Wet test.

You should do fine with the brands you mentioned.

[twiggy]

Thanks to all for helpful responses. We have decided to stick with simpler tub and so are now down to wet testing Jacuzzi, Hot Springs and D1 reflection series. I feel pretty confident with these local dealers and I think the wet test will make the final decision easy (I hope!).

[Wannago]

Thanks to all for helpful responses. We have decided to stick with simpler tub and so are now down to wet testing Jacuzzi, Hot Springs and D1 reflection series. I feel pretty confident with these local dealers and I think the wet test will make the final decision easy (I hope!).

Twiggy, you and I seem to be thinking the same way.

I am now considering not buying the D1 Lotus Bay, but instead going with the Chairman 2. The regular shaped tub basically has everything the Lotus Bay has, without the extra cost of the Bay series.

However...

I also went and looked at the HotSpring tubs. I am now somewhat torn between the D1 and the HS. Jacuzzi is not being considered, due to the type of cover we want to go with and the "stupid" shape of their shells.

Price-wise, the HS is much cheaper that the D1. I still feel that the D1 spa is more solid. The duralife shell seems more robust, while the HS acrylic shell seems "flimsier" (for lack of a better word). It might just be me, but I don't often like the look of the smooth, shiny finishes anyway. Liftetime warranty on the D1 shell, 7 years on the HS. Overall, I personally seem to like the look of the white D1 shell as opposed to the shiny look of the HS. At the HS dealership, I first started talking with the "water/service guy" while the sales rep was busy. We were talking about the warranty on the shell, and he told me how, within the past year, they had replaced 2 tubs that were in their 7th year of ownership, for customers who had developed a crack in the top of their shell. I think he was trying to demonstrate how they stand by their warranty, and how these customers got a new tub after 7 years. My cynical perspective, which I posed to him in the form of the following question was "So had these cracks developed a few months later (outside the 7 year window), these guys would have been sh!t out of luck?" This kinda set the guy back a bit, and he replied "uh...yeah". This is now haunting me...2 tubs within a year had to be replaced, right at the very end of their warranty? Not a good sales pitch.

The D1 back massager seems better. It is programmable, and is more involved than the HS massager, which is basically a whipping hose behind the backrest. I know this translates into extra cost up front, and is potentially one more thing to go wrong, but I haven't read of any issues with the programmable controller or the mechanism itself.

Jets - D1 has more jets than the HS. I'm a guy....more is better!

The Chairman 2 has the Max Therapy seat, which I really like the idea of. I like the ability have have jets attack my shoulders and arms too. Just sit back in this chair and get blasted.

Lounger - Design of the D1 Ultra lounge is claimed to be, and does appear to be, so that it reduces / minimizes float. The HS lounger appears more laid out which in my simple mind, might contribute to float. The HS (Vista) lounger does not have jets for the back of your legs, does not have jets for your arms or wrists, nor does it even have arm rests. The D1 lounger does.

Waterfalls etc. - The D1 has liquid Fx, which I like, while the HS does not. I know, not a function, just a little "extra".

Expensive. The Lotus Bay I was considering had a retail sticker price of 21K Cdn. Yikes! Like I previsouly wrote, I was given a price of 17K, which was quite a reduction, but is still a lot of money. The HS Vista has a retail price of 12.9k, and I haven't event begun to deal with them yet, so it will be a LOT cheaper than the Lotus Bay. I still need to go in to the D1 dealer and haggle over the price of the Chairman 2, which is now the tub we are considering. In your area, what can you get a Chairman 2 for? At the time of writing, I still suspect that the Chairman 2 will be quite a bit more expensive than the HS Vista.

Cover - We have decided that we want to use a Covana cover (www.sterlingcovana.com). This bad boy retails for 5K Cdn. The HS dealer also sells these covers, and I am confident that I could get a HS Vista and this cover, for less than what I was expecting to pay for the D1 Lotus Bay. As the D1 dealer does not sell them, I need to make sure that after I negotiate my best price on the Chairman, that I also get a credit for not taking their cover and lifter.

Control panel. I have read a few reviews on the D1 which indicate that the M Drive control panel is quite prone to problems and is often replaced. This is my one main concern with the D1. The panel on the HS is a bit nicer, and I have not heard of any issues with it.

So, this essentially comes down to price.

In Speaking with the HS sales rep, I appear that I will get more for my money, although I haven't even started to haggle yet.

The HS dealer will deliver my spa, will connect the wiring to the tub (as long as it is already present at the site), and also includes a sub panel and GFCI. They will also fill the tub for me and help with the startup chemicals. They will also take my old Cal Spa Victory tub away. All this, including the setup and install of the Covana cover, for a price I expect would be less than the purchase price of the Lotus Bay.

The D1 dealer told me their price includes the typical delivery etc. but I don't think they will actually wire up the tub for me. I will negotiate this. I can do it, as I have with both my previous tubs, but as this will be my most expensive tub to date, I don't want to risk making a wrong connection. I mean, if the wires are already there at the site, why wouldn't the dealer want to make sure it is connected properly?

He also told me they do not fill the tub, as the guys don't want to hang around while the tub fills. This is not a must-have for me, but it is definitely a nice gesture on behalf of the HS dealer. The D1 dealer said they will take my old tub away, but it might cost 200-300 bucks. I am going to press them on this too...I mean, they have the dolly and the trailer, and conveniently drive right by a landfill site to get to my community. I understand they may not want the tub, but what would it cost them to take my old one away and drop it off at the landfill? Maybe 50-75 bucks landfill fee? I'm sure there is still "some" profit left in this tub

We haven't wet tested either tub yet. I intend to, but my wife is very shy and refuses to put on her suit in a store, even though it will be after hours etc...So, she will have to live with my opinion. The local HS dealer loses a couple points for their store setup. They do have a Vista in the showroom that is filled, but it can only run for a couple minutes before it throws a breaker. As well, they have right beside it an Envoy, which is also filled. This is on a different circuit, as this tubs jets do run, however as soon as you turn them on, you get this rotten eggs smell. As well, one the jets were turned off, the tub was full of "floaties" - white particulate (calcium?) which looked really bad. I would have thought that being a reputable dealer, the last place you would find bad water such as this would be in their showroom.

So, for us, at this point, we still intend to go with the D1 IF we can get the Chairman 2 for a decent price. We are going out today to check out the Chairman 2 a bit closer, and if the guy is around, I will try to negotiate my best deal, using the HS as leverage. If he wants my business and can get me into the Chairman 2 for a decent price, he will keep the deal. If he refuses to play nice, I walk and go with the HS, knowing that I still am getting a very good product, maybe not everything the D1 had, but at a significant savings.

[shovelhd]

What about the Jacuzzi shell do you consider "stupid"?

[THE SPA GUY]

Thanks to all for helpful responses. We have decided to stick with simpler tub and so are now down to wet testing Jacuzzi, Hot Springs and D1 reflection series. I feel pretty confident with these local dealers and I think the wet test will make the final decision easy (I hope!).

Twiggy, you and I seem to be thinking the same way.

I am now considering not buying the D1 Lotus Bay, but instead going with the Chairman 2. The regular shaped tub basically has everything the Lotus Bay has, without the extra cost of the Bay series.

However...

I also went and looked at the HotSpring tubs. I am now somewhat torn between the D1 and the HS. Jacuzzi is not being considered, due to the type of cover we want to go with and the "stupid" shape of their shells.

Price-wise, the HS is much cheaper that the D1. I still feel that the D1 spa is more solid. The duralife shell seems more robust, while the HS acrylic shell seems "flimsier" (for lack of a better word). It might just be me, but I don't often like the look of the smooth, shiny finishes anyway. Liftetime warranty on the D1 shell, 7 years on the HS. Overall, I personally seem to like the look of the white D1 shell as opposed to the shiny look of the HS. At the HS dealership, I first started talking with the "water/service guy" while the sales rep was busy. We were talking about the warranty on the shell, and he told me how, within the past year, they had replaced 2 tubs that were in their 7th year of ownership, for customers who had developed a crack in the top of their shell. I think he was trying to demonstrate how they stand by their warranty, and how these customers got a new tub after 7 years. My cynical perspective, which I posed to him in the form of the following question was "So had these cracks developed a few months later (outside the 7 year window), these guys would have been sh!t out of luck?" This kinda set the guy back a bit, and he replied "uh...yeah". This is now haunting me...2 tubs within a year had to be replaced, right at the very end of their warranty? Not a good sales pitch.

The D1 back massager seems better. It is programmable, and is more involved than the HS massager, which is basically a whipping hose behind the backrest. I know this translates into extra cost up front, and is potentially one more thing to go wrong, but I haven't read of any issues with the programmable controller or the mechanism itself.

Jets - D1 has more jets than the HS. I'm a guy....more is better!

The Chairman 2 has the Max Therapy seat, which I really like the idea of. I like the ability have have jets attack my shoulders and arms too. Just sit back in this chair and get blasted.

Lounger - Design of the D1 Ultra lounge is claimed to be, and does appear to be, so that it reduces / minimizes float. The HS lounger appears more laid out which in my simple mind, might contribute to float. The HS (Vista) lounger does not have jets for the back of your legs, does not have jets for your arms or wrists, nor does it even have arm rests. The D1 lounger does.

Waterfalls etc. - The D1 has liquid Fx, which I like, while the HS does not. I know, not a function, just a little "extra".

Expensive. The Lotus Bay I was considering had a retail sticker price of 21K Cdn. Yikes! Like I previsouly wrote, I was given a price of 17K, which was quite a reduction, but is still a lot of money. The HS Vista has a retail price of 12.9k, and I haven't event begun to deal with them yet, so it will be a LOT cheaper than the Lotus Bay. I still need to go in to the D1 dealer and haggle over the price of the Chairman 2, which is now the tub we are considering. In your area, what can you get a Chairman 2 for? At the time of writing, I still suspect that the Chairman 2 will be quite a bit more expensive than the HS Vista.

Cover - We have decided that we want to use a Covana cover (www.sterlingcovana.com). This bad boy retails for 5K Cdn. The HS dealer also sells these covers, and I am confident that I could get a HS Vista and this cover, for less than what I was expecting to pay for the D1 Lotus Bay. As the D1 dealer does not sell them, I need to make sure that after I negotiate my best price on the Chairman, that I also get a credit for not taking their cover and lifter.

Control panel. I have read a few reviews on the D1 which indicate that the M Drive control panel is quite prone to problems and is often replaced. This is my one main concern with the D1. The panel on the HS is a bit nicer, and I have not heard of any issues with it.

So, this essentially comes down to price.

In Speaking with the HS sales rep, I appear that I will get more for my money, although I haven't even started to haggle yet.

The HS dealer will deliver my spa, will connect the wiring to the tub (as long as it is already present at the site), and also includes a sub panel and GFCI. They will also fill the tub for me and help with the startup chemicals. They will also take my old Cal Spa Victory tub away. All this, including the setup and install of the Covana cover, for a price I expect would be less than the purchase price of the Lotus Bay.

The D1 dealer told me their price includes the typical delivery etc. but I don't think they will actually wire up the tub for me. I will negotiate this. I can do it, as I have with both my previous tubs, but as this will be my most expensive tub to date, I don't want to risk making a wrong connection. I mean, if the wires are already there at the site, why wouldn't the dealer want to make sure it is connected properly?

He also told me they do not fill the tub, as the guys don't want to hang around while the tub fills. This is not a must-have for me, but it is definitely a nice gesture on behalf of the HS dealer. The D1 dealer said they will take my old tub away, but it might cost 200-300 bucks. I am going to press them on this too...I mean, they have the dolly and the trailer, and conveniently drive right by a landfill site to get to my community. I understand they may not want the tub, but what would it cost them to take my old one away and drop it off at the landfill? Maybe 50-75 bucks landfill fee? I'm sure there is still "some" profit left in this tub

We haven't wet tested either tub yet. I intend to, but my wife is very shy and refuses to put on her suit in a store, even though it will be after hours etc...So, she will have to live with my opinion. The local HS dealer loses a couple points for their store setup. They do have a Vista in the showroom that is filled, but it can only run for a couple minutes before it throws a breaker. As well, they have right beside it an Envoy, which is also filled. This is on a different circuit, as this tubs jets do run, however as soon as you turn them on, you get this rotten eggs smell. As well, one the jets were turned off, the tub was full of "floaties" - white particulate (calcium?) which looked really bad. I would have thought that being a reputable dealer, the last place you would find bad water such as this would be in their showroom.

So, for us, at this point, we still intend to go with the D1 IF we can get the Chairman 2 for a decent price. We are going out today to check out the Chairman 2 a bit closer, and if the guy is around, I will try to negotiate my best deal, using the HS as leverage. If he wants my business and can get me into the Chairman 2 for a decent price, he will keep the deal. If he refuses to play nice, I walk and go with the HS, knowing that I still am getting a very good product, maybe not everything the D1 had, but at a significant savings.

Both the D1 angd the Hot Springs spa are great spas and represent the industry well, whichever you go with.. i would say beyond the brands is the dealer you buy from, I sell D1 spas in the northwest have been a dealer for a year now and absolutely love the line, its a much better line the our previous, if any questions or problems D1 is quick to help out. ihave not seen a lot of problems with the m drive., only have had one problem. but again both are great brands you will enjoy either of them.i would talk to your local D1 dealer and tell him you are consisering the Hot Springs, andbring up the fact they will fill the spa and start, we do that for our customers, but we do not hook up the electrical, usually the electrician is there when we deliver , so not abig deal. So if you tell him that he may say we can do that to get your business.!!!!!! hope this helps

[Wannago]

What about the Jacuzzi shell do you consider "stupid"?

shovelhd,

As I mentioned, I want to use a Covana cover. This is a one piece, hardtop cover that raises and lowers electrically. It provides security, better insulation, and lasts a "lifetime" (okay.....many years then - much longer than a normal cover).

For us, the ability to use the retractable screens with this cover provides us with the privacy we have been lacking, essentially doubling as a gazebo.

The "stupid" part of the Jacuzzi tub, IMHO, is the raised section where the waterfall comes out. No real need for this, and it restricts owners from using any other type of cover, be it the Cavona or some other third party manufacturer.

For us, this "stupid" design precludes them from our consideration, which is too bad, as clearly they are a quality tub.