Seeking A First Hot Tub!

[Water Boy]

Waterboy, I almost fell of my chair laughing about the little video and after my day today I really needed it. If you want to know something funny, I am going to call my local HS dealer and see if they are ready to come down on a 09 vanguard. I need to see if they can compete with out of town dealer or I might buy a BF 462.

No problem man, glad I could make you laugh. Life’s a lot more fun we can get a laugh every now and again. Its all in joking around for that reason. Wasn’t trying to be immature like some one else suggested. As far as the tubs you are looking at, I would go with the Vanguard over the BF 462, but that is just me. Wet test both, and look closely at both dealers, and go with your gut!! Good luck!

[Markee]

JeremiahR:

You say you are being honest, but you aren't. The model being looked at is a Marquis Spirit which is a dual-filter, one pump system. This spa will pull ALL (100%) of the water through the filters 100% of the time, even with jets on high-speed. Yes, even the water that is pulled through the bottom suction fittings goes through the filter before it enters the equipment. Some of the other Marquis models filter differently, but the spa being discussed has NO bypass.

While we're on the subject, the Marquis Spirit will filter 18,000+ gallons of water per day, whereas the HotSpring SilentFlo 5000 circulation pump will only filter 5000 gallons of water per day.

As far as the base of the spa, I will let these pictures speak for themselves:

This is a 2008 HotSpring base

----------------------------

This is a Marquis base

[waylon33]

JeremiahR:

You say you are being honest, but you aren't. The model being looked at is a Marquis Spirit which is a dual-filter, one pump system. This spa will pull ALL (100%) of the water through the filters 100% of the time, even with jets on high-speed. Yes, even the water that is pulled through the bottom suction fittings goes through the filter before it enters the equipment. Some of the other Marquis models filter differently, but the spa being discussed has NO bypass.

While we're on the subject, the Marquis Spirit will filter 18,000+ gallons of water per day, whereas the HotSpring SilentFlo 5000 circulation pump will only filter 5000 gallons of water per day.

As far as the base of the spa, I will let these pictures speak for themselves:

This is a 2008 HotSpring base

----------------------------

This is a Marquis base

come on markee, everyone would prefer foam and eventually rotted out 2X4's to any base provided! Its obvious isnt it!

hehe

[hottubdan]

Sure, except we have 30 year old spas out there with sealed foam and pressure treated 2 x 4s that are still pumping hot water.

[waylon33]

Sure, except we have 30 year old spas out there with sealed foam and pressure treated 2 x 4s that are still pumping hot water.

No doubt, but in some climates like mine that wouldnt be the case.

[r5ran]

Sorry to jump in. Hey Jeremiah -just a note to let you know you can have the phase 1 display the actual temp. Put a jumper on #10 and it should do it.

Aha! I was told there was a way to have the temp show on the display via jumpers, but could never find out what jumper. Now, the question is, how can I tell if I have a Phase 1 display or not? My tub is an 08 Vanguard....somehow I got that feeling it's not a phase 1.

Thanks, Ran

Ran,

The 2008 Vanguard would be equivalent to the Phase 1 we're talking about. Phase 1 and Phase 2 are specific to the 2009 Hot Spring models, and some mid year changes that took place.

OK, now I know what you meant by phase 1 and 2 panels, and my 08 is a phase 1 afterall. So does this mean I can jumper pin #10 and have it read the current temp? Just put a jumper across the 2 pins (similar to a PC system board, got lots of those jumpers laying around)? No other mods needed? Just making sure, don't want to fry anything!

Thanks again, Ran

[JerimiahR]

JeremiahR:

You say you are being honest, but you aren't. The model being looked at is a Marquis Spirit which is a dual-filter, one pump system. This spa will pull ALL (100%) of the water through the filters 100% of the time, even with jets on high-speed. Yes, even the water that is pulled through the bottom suction fittings goes through the filter before it enters the equipment. Some of the other Marquis models filter differently, but the spa being discussed has NO bypass.

Before you call someone a liar, check your facts. The diagram you provided above, does not clearly show the water being pulled in through the bypass was going through either of those filters. You provided the image, I didn't. If in fact that water is sucked in through the bypass, and then fed through the filter, Marquis should consider redrawing that diagram. You're not representing your filter system the way it should be. If it is a 100% no-bypass, show that so people will see it. After all, you need to make it obvious if it's going to be a selling feature. It's interesting to me though, to see other hot tub companies pick up on things Hot Spring has done for a long time.

And as far as the Hot Spring base is concerned. Have you seen very many of them after 15 or 20 years? Because they aren't the "rotted out" image that waylon33 suggests. I'm talking about Hot Spring spas in Montana, where we rain through spring and summer, and snow from October to June.

Truth be told though, there are currently 2 Hot Spring models (Vanguard and Aria) which have a plastic base under them. Also, the three Limelight models (made by Hot Spring) also have a plastic base under them. Even still, I personally prefer the old Hot Spring method. It's rigid, can be handled in ways other spas sometimes cannot be, and stands the test of time even in our relatively harsh climate.

Point is, there are different methods. "Plastic" is not simply superior. You simply told the original poster that they had to look for a sealed plastic base on a hot tub. That's typically what salesman say when they feel threatened by Hot Spring in my experience.

I'm disappointed by some of you "spa professionals" on these forums to be honest. There's a level of immaturity here that startles me. One person doesn't like my passion for Hot Spring, and starts throwing around the Kool Aid logo, while others tend to use scare tactics like suggesting rotten hot tub bases.

[Markee]

JermiahR:

Take another look at the animation:

http://www.marquisspas.com/difference_clean.asp

The suction fitting does not bypass the filter, it is plumbed in to the bottom of the filter canister, and the water from the suction is pulled upward in to the filter.

This is a picture of the bottom of a filter canister where the filter threads in. Hopefully this helps you understand:

[Water Boy]

JeremiahR:

You say you are being honest, but you aren't. The model being looked at is a Marquis Spirit which is a dual-filter, one pump system. This spa will pull ALL (100%) of the water through the filters 100% of the time, even with jets on high-speed. Yes, even the water that is pulled through the bottom suction fittings goes through the filter before it enters the equipment. Some of the other Marquis models filter differently, but the spa being discussed has NO bypass.

Before you call someone a liar, check your facts. The diagram you provided above, does not clearly show the water being pulled in through the bypass was going through either of those filters. You provided the image, I didn't. If in fact that water is sucked in through the bypass, and then fed through the filter, Marquis should consider redrawing that diagram. You're not representing your filter system the way it should be. If it is a 100% no-bypass, show that so people will see it. After all, you need to make it obvious if it's going to be a selling feature. It's interesting to me though, to see other hot tub companies pick up on things Hot Spring has done for a long time.

And as far as the Hot Spring base is concerned. Have you seen very many of them after 15 or 20 years? Because they aren't the "rotted out" image that waylon33 suggests. I'm talking about Hot Spring spas in Montana, where we rain through spring and summer, and snow from October to June.

Truth be told though, there are currently 2 Hot Spring models (Vanguard and Aria) which have a plastic base under them. Also, the three Limelight models (made by Hot Spring) also have a plastic base under them. Even still, I personally prefer the old Hot Spring method. It's rigid, can be handled in ways other spas sometimes cannot be, and stands the test of time even in our relatively harsh climate.

Point is, there are different methods. "Plastic" is not simply superior. You simply told the original poster that they had to look for a sealed plastic base on a hot tub. That's typically what salesman say when they feel threatened by Hot Spring in my experience.

I'm disappointed by some of you "spa professionals" on these forums to be honest. There's a level of immaturity here that startles me. One person doesn't like my passion for Hot Spring, and starts throwing around the Kool Aid logo, while others tend to use scare tactics like suggesting rotten hot tub bases.

If the foam base is " the better" method as you suggested in a earlier post, then why is HS/Watkins using plastic floors on five of their models now? Maybe they felt "threatened" and had to start doing what "everybody else has been doing for a while now"?? Also, I never said that I didn’t like your passion for HS. I have repeated that at least three times now. I said your spewing of the HS kool aid on every thread saying that they are the best at everything is what gets old after a while.

[waylon33]

"And as far as the Hot Spring base is concerned. Have you seen very many of them after 15 or 20 years? Because they aren't the "rotted out" image that waylon33 suggests. I'm talking about Hot Spring spas in Montana, where we rain through spring and summer, and snow from October to June"

Jeremiah I live in a harsh climate as well, and those floors rot out. I have seen them first hand. Ive seen them after 5-10 years and you can hardly pick them up without the bottom falling out. Its one of the main reasons that we only move the brand that we sell, which features a fiberglass floor. We need to quite kidding ourselves that the foam floor is even remotely the seem or as good of quality as a fiberglass floor. In no way shape or foam is it better. Its a cheaper way to build the spa and truthfully in lots of climates it works perfectly fine, but NOT in mine.

Its kind of like saying Ill take the Nissan Maxima without the floor, I think the carpet will do just fine!

[JerimiahR]

"And as far as the Hot Spring base is concerned. Have you seen very many of them after 15 or 20 years? Because they aren't the "rotted out" image that waylon33 suggests. I'm talking about Hot Spring spas in Montana, where we rain through spring and summer, and snow from October to June"

Jeremiah I live in a harsh climate as well, and those floors rot out. I have seen them first hand. Ive seen them after 5-10 years and you can hardly pick them up without the bottom falling out. Its one of the main reasons that we only move the brand that we sell, which features a fiberglass floor. We need to quite kidding ourselves that the foam floor is even remotely the seem or as good of quality as a fiberglass floor. In no way shape or foam is it better. Its a cheaper way to build the spa and truthfully in lots of climates it works perfectly fine, but NOT in mine.

Its kind of like saying Ill take the Nissan Maxima without the floor, I think the carpet will do just fine!

Your comparison with the Nissan Maxima makes no sense. Let's compare apples to apples.

I'm sorry you've had bad experience where you're at, but frankly our experience in Montana has been completely different. It's part of why we CHOOSE to sell Hot Spring only.

And it's part of why we only move & service Hot Spring. Why is Hot Spring changing to plastic bottoms on some new models? I wish I got to make those decisions. But it has more to do with the new internal structure than it does anything else.

[waylon33]

"Your comparison with the Nissan Maxima makes no sense. Let's compare apples to apples.

I'm sorry you've had bad experience where you're at, but frankly our experience in Montana has been completely different. It's part of why we CHOOSE to sell Hot Spring only.

And it's part of why we only move & service Hot Spring. Why is Hot Spring changing to plastic bottoms on some new models? I wish I got to make those decisions. But it has more to do with the new internal structure than it does anything else. "

Sorry I forgot to include the pressure treated 2X4's underneath the carpet on that Nissan.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

[Trigger]

I have found that tone of certain salesfolks usually are a good reflection of the product they represent. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it seems to hold true the majority of the time in this forum.

[hottubdan]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

[Water Boy]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Well, I apologize to the original poster if I caused this thread to go haywire. A couple of different people pm'd me saying they enjoyed the humor I tried to throw in about the HS kool aid and cheerleading. Guess I can't please everyone. Oh well...

[Seeker]

You don't have to apologize, I enjoyed it too. And I actually learned a few things!!!!

[Water Boy]

You don't have to apologize, I enjoyed it too. And I actually learned a few things!!!!

Well good. Glad you were able to learn a few things!!

[waylon33]

You don't have to apologize, I enjoyed it too. And I actually learned a few things!!!!

Well good. Glad you were able to learn a few things!!

Im glad to hear that you learned a few things, there should always be a bit of humor involved with every thread I believe. It just never turns out good in some peoples eyes when the HS brand is on the other end of the humor.

[waylon33]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

There are many flavors of Koolaid: Hot Spring Grape, Arctic Blueberry, Sundance Orange, Cal Lemon... Everyone has their favorite flavor.

[hottubdan]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

Just to clarify facts; not selling, or claiming one is better than another.

Hot Spring base is pressure treated wood. The 60# foam seals the insulation; it is not the base.

What does "a fully structured base" mean?

Ah, that sip of kool aid was good.

[waylon33]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

Just to clarify facts; not selling, or claiming one is better than another.

Hot Spring base is pressure treated wood. The 60# foam seals the insulation; it is not the base.

What does "a fully structured base" mean?

Ah, that sip of kool aid was good.

A fully structured base would be similar to the Forever Floor that Arctic sells, and many other brands sell. Your right HS uses pressure treated wood but it doesnt completely cover the floor and relies on foam in the other areas. Plus that pressure treated wood has a short lifespan when used in the application that HS is using it. I have seen it first hand. Arctic used to build the floors very similar to this and it didnt hold up well either. Again in lots of climates this is a moot point cause even the HS floor will outlast the tub, but not in my climate.

Yes we all drink the koolaid of whatever brand we sell, but at least I am able to admit when my brand is inferior at something. The HS floor is obviously inferior to many brands when it comes to flooring.

[hottubdan]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

Just to clarify facts; not selling, or claiming one is better than another.

Hot Spring base is pressure treated wood. The 60# foam seals the insulation; it is not the base.

What does "a fully structured base" mean?

Ah, that sip of kool aid was good.

A fully structured base would be similar to the Forever Floor that Arctic sells, and many other brands sell. Your right HS uses pressure treated wood but it doesnt completely cover the floor and relies on foam in the other areas. Plus that pressure treated wood has a short lifespan when used in the application that HS is using it. I have seen it first hand. Arctic used to build the floors very similar to this and it didnt hold up well either. Again in lots of climates this is a moot point cause even the HS floor will outlast the tub, but not in my climate.

Yes we all drink the koolaid of whatever brand we sell, but at least I am able to admit when my brand is inferior at something. The HS floor is obviously inferior to many brands when it comes to flooring.

Waylon,

Give me an example of what you "admit when my brand is inferior."

[waylon33]

This thread has surely gone down hill. Too bad, it started as a request for helpful information and turned a bit unnecessarily nasty.

Ditto.

Sorry hottubdan, next time Ill just have to brainwash myself that a foam base is better than a fully structured base. BTW maybe I can get on the Koolaid mailing list.

Just to clarify facts; not selling, or claiming one is better than another.

Hot Spring base is pressure treated wood. The 60# foam seals the insulation; it is not the base.

What does "a fully structured base" mean?

Ah, that sip of kool aid was good.

A fully structured base would be similar to the Forever Floor that Arctic sells, and many other brands sell. Your right HS uses pressure treated wood but it doesnt completely cover the floor and relies on foam in the other areas. Plus that pressure treated wood has a short lifespan when used in the application that HS is using it. I have seen it first hand. Arctic used to build the floors very similar to this and it didnt hold up well either. Again in lots of climates this is a moot point cause even the HS floor will outlast the tub, but not in my climate.

Yes we all drink the koolaid of whatever brand we sell, but at least I am able to admit when my brand is inferior at something. The HS floor is obviously inferior to many brands when it comes to flooring.

Waylon,

Give me an example of what you "admit when my brand is inferior."

Ill give you an example when you admit that the HS foam/wood floor is inferior to the Arctic Forever Floor and many other floors on the market.