Lounger Seat? Football Jets?

[sonomablue]

All,

I am new to spas and hot tubs. We are looking to purchase a spa within the next month or two. We have looked at several stores. (wow, there is a lot out there).

I entered into our research with the assumption that we definitely would want a "lounger seat". One salesman tried to talk me out of it by saying that people tend to float out of, or up away from, the jets in a lounger. I am curious for those who have loungers, if you like them? Would you buy a spa with a lounger seat again, if you had it to do over again?

Also, what about jets for the feet? Seems like some spas have the "football" jets. The spherical device in teh bottom with jets on all sides. Others have a more open floor, and the jets for feet are not on the bottom, but are across from where you sit. For those spas, which do your prefer and why ?

thanks

[pg_rider]

In my opinion foot jets are the most enjoyable part of the spa. Most tubs have some form of them, although it seems like in most tubs they're an afterthought. As I already posted elsewhere, I think a footdome is a must have, not only for the foot massage but for the way you can get therapy to the rest of your legs. When I drop my butt to the floor of our Optima and stretch my legs over the dome I've got two jets on my butt, two on my hams, two on my calves, and two on my feet. Can't beat it in my opinion.

Now, if foot and leg therapy aren't important then I would say an open footwell would be a better arrangement. All comes down to personal preference...

[sonomablue]

In my opinion foot jets are the most enjoyable part of the spa. Most tubs have some form of them, although it seems like in most tubs they're an afterthought. As I already posted elsewhere, I think a footdome is a must have, not only for the foot massage but for the way you can get therapy to the rest of your legs. When I drop my butt to the floor of our Optima and stretch my legs over the dome I've got two jets on my butt, two on my hams, two on my calves, and two on my feet. Can't beat it in my opinion.

Now, if foot and leg therapy aren't important then I would say an open footwell would be a better arrangement. All comes down to personal preference...

Glad that you are in a "reply" kind of mode. Your answers are VERY helpful, since i have never owned a spa before. The only spas that i have ever really been in have been those at hotels (nice but nothing special).

Another question, if you have another minute:

How about the configuration of the jets on each seat? Some (ex: Sundance) have some very fancy jets configured in different locations. In one seat, it looks like they go up the center of your spine. In another seat, there are two vertical rows that go on either side of your spince. Does these really work? Do they really make a difference? Do you notice effects on different muscle areas? Or is it just a fancy gimmic?

thanks

[pg_rider]

I can only speak "authoritatively" on the Optima since I've lived with it for a while now. In that tub, the two real therapy seats are the ones opposite from the control panel and yes, they have different feels. The one to the left (the AccuSage seat) gives an awesome whole-back massage and is very strong if you want it to be (using the diverter and the two air controls for that seat). The neck jets are also good. The seat on the right is more targeted towards specific areas (and will vary depending on how tall you are and your posture in the seat -- straight up or slumped down). The neck jets are stronger in this seat, so I end up using them both to get two different "feels". In both seats the jets offer some back and forth motion which I see no real benefit in. And, once you turn the air controls up the jets get VERY strong and the motion stops. Just the way *I* prefer it (although I'm certain you'll hear lots of people say they swear by rotating jets and other nonsense ).

The remaining seats and jets are just average I would say. Good for guests just hanging around in the tub at a party, but not real therapeutic. The two main seats and especially the foot dome are what make this a great tub.

[sonomablue]

I understand that you like and enjoy the football jets. Do they at all get in the way, when you want to move around the spa?

Also, you may have posted and i don't recall, but my wife is curious... is this your first spa? If not, what others have you owned? If it is your first, what other models did you consider? and what sold you on Sundance (over any other brands).

:-) .. i think that i am about out of questions, and will stop bothering you.

thanks

[pg_rider]

Foot dome doesn't get in the way at all...

It's our first spa. We wet tested several Jacuzzis, the Sundance Cameo, and a couple Vitas. Dry tested several Arctics and D1's. None of them were as comfortable for us as the Optima (although the Cameo was close, as you can imagine). The clincher was the variety of lower body massage, as I've mentioned. And we were just very impressed with the overall quality of Sundance. We needed to be, as our local dealer basically sucks! But the Optima was THE tub for us so it was a fair tradeoff.

No bother at all -- these forums are great for learning. The only real way to know which tub is best is to try it in person though.

[wesj53]

Let me add to some of the things pg told you specifically about his tub. From a general standpoint, you and your significant others MUST wet test a variety of spas to decide what feels best for you and the type of jet therapy you need. My wife and I actually wet tested a few of our finalist models on multiple occasions to remember what their advantages and disadvantages were.

Each mfg has different types of jets but I would stay away from models that have too many small bullet type jets. They almost burn or sting to the touch but again thay may be personal preference. After trying a few models, my wife who is petite found herself "floating" quite a bit (especially in loungers) so we had to narrow our search to models with center footdomes or configurations like our Tundra which has a dual level floor system and foot jet slots which hold the occupant in the seat.

I would also recommend when you are wet testing to sit next to each other in adjoining seats to determine the closeness of the spa. If you're going to have guests often, I would not want a spa where you feel like you're in someone else's lap or playing footsie in a crowded center footwell. We also wanted a spa where you got at least 4 active seats and one with at least 1 jet in all seats. Those are more difficult to find and you generally pay more for units with larger number of jets. Some folks here will tell you the number of jets is not important, so again it is a matter of personal preference.

Finally, I would suggest looking at the mfg process of units in addition to the wet testing. There are significant differences in how they are made and the warranties will note how long the mfgs will stand behind their products. Also try and find a reputable dealer who will be there for you with prompt and friendly service when you need them.

And yes, we would not do without footjets. The part of the body that takes the most punishment deserves a treat at night! Good luck and if you have any other specific questions, feel free to ask.

[paintnsunni]

Wet test! Wet test! Wet teast!!!!! I tried a few lounges and found I float so I personally didn't care for them. As for the foot dome I love it and it also helps my wife who is 5' ahe uses the fot dome to brace herself if you will as the Costco Elite Platinum II has alot of jet force if you want it and will actually push you out of your seat so the foot dome allows you to stay put whilr getting a nice powerfull massage.

[sonomablue]

Thanks to all. Your input is very valuable. We will wet test as we get closer to narrowing our search.

I have another few questions that i am hoping that some of you might be inclined to address.

Maybe our direction will change, but currently some of our favorites are Sundancy spas. Maybe you can address your answer generically because probably all Mfg's have the same issue, but i will post the question specific to Sundance. Sundance has 2 models that we like (the size, look, features, jets, seating, pumps, etc). The "Optima" is their better model. The Bahia is one step down. The configuration is very very similar between the two.

Optima:

http://www.sundancespas.com/800Series/Optima.php (approx $8900)

Bahia:

http://www.sundancespas.com/700Series/Bahia.php (approx. $6900)

The Optima is approx $2,000 higher in price, than the Bahia.

Is the price difference worth the extra $2,000 (and again, you can answer generically, since all Mfg's have higher end models, and medium priced models, and sometimes low end models.

The Bahia does not have a separate circulation pump (which the Optima does) so it must use one of the main 2 pumps to do circulation.

The jets in the Optima seem to be a bit larger, definitely more sophisticated (can adjust on/off, pulsating/non, directional, etc). There are more foot jets in the footwell (looke like 2 per person, Bahia has one per person). The Optima has more jets 39, compared to 32 with Bahia.

The Bahia, you have to replace the filters every 3 months, instead of once/year with the Optima.

The Optima has a waterfall (i don't need this, but it seems like it would be fun to have at night?)

The Optima has 480 gallon capacity, comared to 365 for the Bahia. (a bit surprising, considering their sizes are very close. Optima 7'5" x 7'5" x 37.5", Bahia 7'4" x 7'4" x 36").

So, we are a bit confused. We like the features of the Optima, and obviously the price of the Bahia.

Is there that much different in high end to med level spas?

Put differently, are the differences that noticeable?

What did any of YOU do, when faced with a similar situation? How did you decide?

(I know, i need to wet test, and plan to today or tomorrow)

thanks

[Trigger]

Optima is bigger, deeper more jets, different style of jets, different pumps, diferent lighting. dual control panels, waterfalls, difernt plumbing, differnt head rests, hand rails, ...Check the specs and wet test.

[pg_rider]

I believe the Bahia DOES have a 24-hr circ pump, but it's not as powerful as the 880 series and doesn't move as much water so theoretically it won't filter quite as effectively.

The electronics in the 880 series are a step up from the 780 series as well. Supposedly more robust...

You may want to sign up and post on http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl. Someone there just bought a Bahia (username SilentWater). Lot of good information over there...

[paintnsunni]

Thanks to all. Your input is very valuable. We will wet test as we get closer to narrowing our search.

I have another few questions that i am hoping that some of you might be inclined to address.

Maybe our direction will change, but currently some of our favorites are Sundancy spas. Maybe you can address your answer generically because probably all Mfg's have the same issue, but i will post the question specific to Sundance. Sundance has 2 models that we like (the size, look, features, jets, seating, pumps, etc). The "Optima" is their better model. The Bahia is one step down. The configuration is very very similar between the two.

Optima:

http://www.sundancespas.com/800Series/Optima.php (approx $8900)

Bahia:

http://www.sundancespas.com/700Series/Bahia.php (approx. $6900)

The Optima is approx $2,000 higher in price, than the Bahia.

Is the price difference worth the extra $2,000 (and again, you can answer generically, since all Mfg's have higher end models, and medium priced models, and sometimes low end models.

The Bahia does not have a separate circulation pump (which the Optima does) so it must use one of the main 2 pumps to do circulation.

The jets in the Optima seem to be a bit larger, definitely more sophisticated (can adjust on/off, pulsating/non, directional, etc). There are more foot jets in the footwell (looke like 2 per person, Bahia has one per person). The Optima has more jets 39, compared to 32 with Bahia.

The Bahia, you have to replace the filters every 3 months, instead of once/year with the Optima.

The Optima has a waterfall (i don't need this, but it seems like it would be fun to have at night?)

The Optima has 480 gallon capacity, comared to 365 for the Bahia. (a bit surprising, considering their sizes are very close. Optima 7'5" x 7'5" x 37.5", Bahia 7'4" x 7'4" x 36").

So, we are a bit confused. We like the features of the Optima, and obviously the price of the Bahia.

Is there that much different in high end to med level spas?

Put differently, are the differences that noticeable?

What did any of YOU do, when faced with a similar situation? How did you decide?

(I know, i need to wet test, and plan to today or tomorrow)

thanks

Another option which also has a foot dome is the Costco Elite Platinum III Spa for $4999.00 which saves you $2000.00 over the Bahia or a whopping $4000.00 over the Optima. The Elite Platinum III has 75 jets, 24 hour circ pump, two jets(one two speed) , ozone and a mp-3 cd stereo with a nice subwoofer. The controlls and spa pac are Balboa EL series and very robust with M-7 technology( nothing to program just power it up and use it) 56 frame pumps and a great warranty by Hydrospa. I know people on this board will disagree with this option but look at it this way...IF and only IF everthing that the neysayers tell you is true the you can alway return it to Costco for a full refund, no other dealer will offer you that period! I have the Platinum II with no issues and have no regrets. My electrical usage is the same as other tubs that use a insulated cabinet method rather then full foam.

[wesj53]

I didn't buy a Sundance but I didn't think there was any spa on the market where you only have to change filters once a year. You sure you heard that right? We wet tested both models and found the Optima to provide a much better "ride" than the Bahia. We also thought - from an asthetics standpoint - that the Optima looked a lot better. (I think most agree looking at the posted pics.)

My wife and I decided to splurge and go expensive with the max # of jets and special features we could buy (except for electronic options). After 5 days of use of ours, I think the waterfall is nice but not necessary but we really enjoy the optional deluxe lighting package which can be adjusted from long intervals of color changes to a strobe effect! As mentioned before, we would not do without footjets, I like our thigh and hip jets, but I think only seat with wrist jets is necessary. That's my opinion, but as most will tell you, the arrangement, feel, and intensity of jets is totally subjective. YOU NEED TO MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION; DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE ELSE ON THIS ISSUE.

Bottom line, if you can afford the Optima, then do it. Over the course of many years, what's a couple grand? But you are still new to the search and there's a lot more product in the market than Sundance. I would recommend to continue looking. As pg even admitted, the Optima really only has 2 therapy seats and for over $9k, I think you could do better. That is the reason we purchased something different.

[pg_rider]

Well, let's not forget simple math -- assuming the same number of pumps with the same HP, the tub with MORE jets is going to have LESS water pressure coming out of those jets, unless of course the tub with more jets is using SMALLER jets. So I would argue that if you're looking for true hyrdrotherapy then sheer jet count is irrelevant at best, and detrimental at worst. Quality, not quantity, rings very true here...

[paintnsunni]

look at the whole package and as what are trully getting for the extra money paid and is it worth more to you. Personally I like the look of the Optima and Our freinds have one thats currently in dispute over a microcrazing? of the shell and after only 6 months of use the manufacture says its her issue. she has bi weekly printed chemisty results from dealer so i think there changing their tune as she was called to have another rep look at the tub. I say that only to show that a lot of companies misshandle issues with their spas. I do however like the spa layout.

she cringed when she paid double what I did for a spa that offers the same if not more features. look around and although I didn't buy one I thought the quality was good was Clearwater spas in Woodinville, WA. good value for the product in my opinion.

[wesj53]

Well, let's not forget simple math -- assuming the same number of pumps with the same HP, the tub with MORE jets is going to have LESS water pressure coming out of those jets, unless of course the tub with more jets is using SMALLER jets. So I would argue that if you're looking for true hyrdrotherapy then sheer jet count is irrelevant at best, and detrimental at worst. Quality, not quantity, rings very true here...

I mainly agree with you pg, although it is my understanding that the routes and the degree of bends that plumbing takes also dictates the strength of output. But I think we're in general consensus with one another. I didn't mean to put down the Optima; it's just that more jets was one of our "hot buttons".

By the way, how often do you change your filters pg? This poster said they were told annually. Is that true?

[pg_rider]

I mainly agree with you pg, although it is my understanding that the routes and the degree of bends that plumbing takes also dictates the strength of output. But I think we're in general consensus with one another. I didn't mean to put down the Optima; it's just that more jets was one of our "hot buttons".

By the way, how often do you change your filters pg? This poster said they were told annually. Is that true?

For sure the plumbing layout would play a role, yes.

I didn't think you were putting down the Optima, but even if you were I'd agree with you on some points! I don't think it's the perfect tub overall, but it was as good as I could find and it has the right aspects that truly ARE perfect for ME (the two main massage seats and the foot dome). I think a tub with more jets would be even better provided it had either stronger pumps to maintain the pressure, or else an additional pump. To that end I sure wish I could have tried a Piper Glen but there aren't any in my area; that might just be the perfect tub! Anyway, my whole point was that sheer jet count shouldn't necessarily be a selling point if it's at the expense of power.

As for the filters, I've only had my tub a couple weeks so I haven't had to change it yet, but I've heard on forums and from my dealer you can go anywhere from 4-8 months on a filter. I think a year would really be pushing it!

[paintnsunni]

Bottom line, if you can afford the Optima, then do it. Over the course of many years, what's a couple grand?[/color

Ill tell ya.......... A LCD T.V, A vacation, good addition to a college fund, Nice patio set and a barbie.

Or just not haveing to work that much so you have time with the familly. That quote above sounds like a used car salesmans mantra.. Money and percieved value are whats happening here. If its only a couple of thousand and it's no big deal then send some to me I guess if you put that amount on a finnance plan the it would seem that a few thousand isn't painfull as the payment goes up little I'd imagine. However, If you count out 90 one hundred dollar bills verses 40 one hundred dollar bills there isn't one person that would with a straight face say "Bottom line, if you can afford the Optima, then do it. Over the course of many years, what's a couple grand?"

I'ts your money no one elses, don't go off the sales hype just because others do the same

[Julian Thompson]

We've just had our new Maxxus delivered - it's fantastic. We also tested the Optima and it too was a great tub. When you wet test try to get the feel of the controlability - you can really tune the jets to suit you but it is doubtful you'll get chance on your wet test. It takes a few nights to get things just right!

We noticed that we floated in quite a few types of lounger but not the Sundance ones.

Also the foot dome is terrific because it lets you brace yourself into the seat which is essential when you've got the thing really firing!

Do check out the Maxxus - it has both the foot dome and the lounger as well as three pumps, and if you push you can get a price not much more than the Optima....

Good Luck!

[paintnsunni]

or look at Costco where a spa like that is half what the Optima cost and also has three pumps

[wesj53]

Loosen up the jockstrap paint, my comment about the 2 grand was offered since the original poster said nothing about not being able to afford the Optima; rather was questioning whether the model was worth the extra over the Bahia. In addition, I assume everyone buying a spa has the disposable income to buy such a luxury item (unless purchased solely for therapeutic reasons), some more than others granted.

Once again, though, it seems you cannot post without some reference to the Costco and/or HydroSpa product line. Based on many of the negative comments about their product, a $5k tub may turn into something much more expensive. You may have gotten lucky with yours, but it seems like a lot of other folks have not. By the way, since you seem to "sell" HydroSpa over these forums, do you know how much Costco is charging or going to be charging for the Platinum III ?

[paintnsunni]

Loosen up the jockstrap paint, my comment about the 2 grand was offered since the original poster said nothing about not being able to afford the Optima; rather was questioning whether the model was worth the extra over the Bahia. In addition, I assume everyone buying a spa has the disposable income to buy such a luxury item (unless purchased solely for therapeutic reasons), some more than others granted.

Once again, though, it seems you cannot post without some reference to the Costco and/or HydroSpa product line. Based on many of the negative comments about their product, a $5k tub may turn into something much more expensive. You may have gotten lucky with yours, but it seems like a lot of other folks have not. By the way, since you seem to "sell" HydroSpa over these forums, do you know how much Costco is charging or going to be charging for the Platinum III ?

Costco is $4999.00 for the Platinum III No returns in the whole Seattle area with a few hundred sold speak volumes considering Costco's liberal retun policy!!!! Lots of satisfied people apparently. I am still looking at the system to see if Mr. Mendoza returns his spa

"I have decided to return the Platinum Elite to COSTCO and am researching another spa I have my eye on the Hot Spring model they sell and welcome insights and recommendations from readers, particularly as they apply to the COSTCO Hot Spring model. No stereo is a bummer and 110v seelightweight."ms

I am starting to think he is a fraud? I am tired of people simply bashing a tub only due to its low price and not the true facts.

[wesj53]

Costco is $4999.00 for the Platinum III No returns in the whole Seattle area with a few hundred sold speak volumes considering Costco's liberal retun policy!!!!

How do you know in an area the size of Seattle that there are NO returns unless you have access to the sales/return numbers? You sure sound like a rep from HydroSpas to me and I'm probably not the only one who questions your authenticity. Now understand I have no problem with you posting; just be honest with us all on this site!

[paintnsunni]

How do you know in an area the size of Seattle that there are NO returns unless you have access to the sales/return numbers? You sure sound like a rep from HydroSpas to me and I'm probably not the only one who questions your authenticity. Now understand I have no problem with you posting; just be honest with us all on this site!

Lets just say I am in the know and have connections .

[Jim_The_Jim]

Lets just say I am in the know and have connections .

I sold a Fallsburg to one of the executives at Home Depot several years ago. By the way he has never had a problem with his spa. Anyway I asked him why he didn't just buy one of his own spas. He told me that they had a lot of returns and he did not want a "beginner spa".

Things have changed. I think that the Costco Hydro Spa is a deal, but it is still not competition for us.

Did you read my article "Bogus" on my site? There are a lot of interesting people on the net playing games.

We have had spa sales people pretent do be Haven Owners posting about "problems" with their spas. When I looked up the records this customer does not exist. The internet is full of crap and it is full of good. You have to use your discrimination (that is God's gift to human beings.) to figure out what the heck is going on.

Isn't there a Country Western song like that: "What the h3ll is going on. What the h3ll is goin' on........"