paintnsunni Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 He was in a PICKLE the brand was a Hotsprings and the issue was to let someone that was going to purchase a spa for 2k less from costco have a wet test. He looks stupid if he doesen't allow a wet test of his companies brand of spa in my opinion yet he also knows he can't compete with Costco on price. I am glad you mentioned this as Hotsprings dealers are under contract to deliver and service the spa from Costco. no exceptions!!! Kinda like eating crow if your a dealer as you just got outed on your two thousand dollar markup.... Watkins, ie.... Hotsprings doesen't sell the spa any less to Costco then a dealer, smell a rat? gota love the internet! As for a dealership just wanting money, I am not sayeing they are not nice but if there isn't money from a sale or service, they wont invite you for a holliday meal. it is all about money, proffit and survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 The difference with this dealer is that he has some imagination - that's what I took from the situation. He can see the win - win in it. He has a chance to sell a new spa on service but even if the supermarket take the sale he will still win on service tickets. This is what is clever. Many people would baulk at this situation and alienate the customer but this, I can see now, would be a total folly. I would add that if what you say about identical product being made available in bulk to supermarkets is accurate then Hotsprings have been rather sharpish but I suppose this is simple economics and economies of scale. If I were a dealer then I would feel a little short changed but as you say, this is life and it is just another obstacle to get in the way of making a profit. Profit, by the way, is not an ugly word. Profit is good - profit feeds your family and profit allows economic progress. Profit is your friend and you should work hard to remember that. Loss is bad. Loss means poverty and recession. Loss, and thin margins in every instance means hardship. The key is to make sure you too are making a Profit with what you do so you can let others do the same. Think about this one (and I won't insult you by discussing it further - it is meant as a token of respect because I too enjoyed the analogy when I first heard of it)....... If a financial advisor turned up driving a brand new Bentley would you embrace him for being successful and seeming to make a lot of money or would you not use him because he was obviously creaming off his clients? Would you prefer that he turned up driving a beat up old car which might show that he does not make a lot of money - or would this make you wonder that if he could not do well enough to afford a better car than you then why ought you listen to his advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Its obvious you assume the Platinum spa from Costco is a lesser tub and that's simply not accurate, You will know in about 5 years or so why it is a lessor tub paint man. See you then, we will help. If it's any consulation you can buy three of the ones you bought for the price of a high end tub, and you will need to, to make 15 years. Value comes over time, not in the first 5 years. I can tell you this from experience. I have a 5 year old Great Lakes that was 4000 new. Still going strong, but this is the cruicial 5 years coming up where value is mesured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 You will know in about 5 years or so why it is a lessor tub paint man. See you then, we will help. If it's any consulation you can buy three of the ones you bought for the price of a high end tub, and you will need to, to make 15 years. Value comes over time, not in the first 5 years. I can tell you this from experience. I have a 5 year old Great Lakes that was 4000 new. Still going strong, but this is the cruicial 5 years coming up where value is mesured. Oh sure Roger, now you're teaching him about real value and how that works. Gee, and I thought "value" was determined by the number at the very bottom of the invoice??? LMAO! Buy cheap my cheapo friend... you get what you pay for and that's never more true than in this purchase... Oh...and do me a favor....walk into your Costco and ask the first person you see putting buns away how to balance pH and if they can test for TDS for ya real quick and give recommendations. LMAO! No support, weak product, weak service and most importantly...very little value to the intelligent shopper. Nuff said... you'll NEVER change my mind as I know far too much how THAT game is played Paintman. Keep trying to justify the purchase of your spa to yourself Paintman and maybe ONE DAY, you may truly believe yourslef! It's pointless trying to justify it to the people that know and have been around more than a couple weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 You will know in about 5 years or so why it is a lessor tub paint man. See you then, we will help. If it's any consulation you can buy three of the ones you bought for the price of a high end tub, and you will need to, to make 15 years. Value comes over time, not in the first 5 years. I can tell you this from experience. I have a 5 year old Great Lakes that was 4000 new. Still going strong, but this is the cruicial 5 years coming up where value is mesured. watter chemistry isn't rocket science! I guess your customers don't know how to read otherwise they wouldn't blindly hand over 10k to 15k.......a dealer very seldom tells a consumer how to balance their spa but rather to just dump in chems because if they did explain the water chemistry the customer might just use bleach for shock. knowledge is power. Really! Same pumps......56 frame mmmmm ok..... fibergass hand rolled fiberglass shell.....mmmmmm.......ok.... Top rated spa pac...........mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....ok.... A.B.S. Bottem...................mmmmmmmmmmm........ok... Same exact manififolds.........mmmmmmm...ok... same jet manufacurer................mmmmmmmm...ok.... same plumbing parts..............mmmmmmm.ok....... pressure treated perimiter with plastic"everwood" cabinete I guess since there isn't a Hotsprings 10k price tag then it's a bad spa No support, weak product, weak service and most importantly...very little value to the intelligent shopper. Nuff said... you'll NEVER change my mind as I know far too much how THAT game is played Paintman. Keep trying to justify the purchase of your spa to yourself Paintman and maybe ONE DAY, you may truly believe yourslef! It's pointless trying to justify it to the people that know and have been around more than a couple weeks. Your just upset you got rooked is all, you have no clue or facts other the you unwittingly shelled ot 60 one hundred dollar bills more the Costco.....Please tell me how you have more value? I have 6k in the bank at my disposal and if the tub craps out in five years, I'll return it!!! That's Value [/color] You are just like people that own a Honda or a Toyota and swore you had the best car and paid a premium only to have Hyundai sweep the nation and beat Toyota and Honda on quality and satisfaction for thousands less! The big three where left in the dust. Hope you like the image Also the Costco Elite is on the third generation with no reports of total meltdown so your five year theory is bunk!!!! perhaps you ment 6...7....errrrrrr nevermind! What you claim will happen is wrong! These spas have been out more then five years!!! your domesday prediction is wrong! get your facts straight please. By the way, If I played your game, you'd have raped me to the turne of 6k!!!!!! I don't want to play your game. Neither do alot of hard working Americans that do understand value, ethics, honesty and respect. Most dealers don't. Nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 BLAH BLAH BLAH... Ya know what, I'm just going to let you believe all of that BS and move on. I see the product you purchased, the people you defend and the lack of knowledge you have about sales in general and I really don't have time to teach a 6 month old fractions nor you on shopping for value. Try and find a spa forum where people have no clue and I bet you'll become their David Corresh in no time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Also the Costco Elite is on the third generation with no reports of total meltdown so your five year theory is bunk!!!! perhaps you ment 6...7....errrrrrr nevermind! What you claim will happen is wrong! These spas have been out more then five years!!! your domesday prediction is wrong! get your facts straight please.[/color] Does this include the Hydrsopa units like the one I bought that never make it out the gate and die before they get through a few months. I'm glad to see you responding to everyone else with the same personal attacks and bullying tactics, only it doesn't seem to work. Good luck with your spa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Nope. Every spa mfg. has a Mr. Mendoza know what, I'm just going to let you believe all of that BS and move on. I see the product you purchased, the people you defend and the lack of knowledge you have about sales in general and I really don't have time to teach a 6 month old fractions nor you on shopping for value. Please explain value then? you yourself said your 4k spa was over five years old and going strong!!!!!! your a goofball! Give me facts other then your thoughts about the longevity of the Elite Spa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Ya know what, I'm just going to let you believe all of that BS and move on. I see the product you purchased, the people you defend and the lack of knowledge you have about sales in general and I really don't have time to teach a 6 month old fractions nor you on shopping for value. Try and find a spa forum where people have no clue and I bet you'll become their David Corresh in no time! That shows me you can't deal with me on a level playeing feild unless you try to manipulate my post and say untruths! I forgot, your used to telling fibs as a salesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_The_Jim Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 That shows me you can't deal with me on a level playeing feild unless you try to manipulate my post and say untruths! I forgot, your used to telling fibs as a salesman I thougth I was the worst salesman for getting into arguments with fools who bought full foam tubs and peices of crap spa with acrylic and ABS shells. As a "sales man" you are not supposed to argue with consumers. You are supposed to "seduce" them with sweet BS and try to get them on your side. I guess Steve forgot that. That is because he needs to learn anger management. Steve, ever see that movie "Anger Management", with Robert De Niro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 watter chemistry isn't rocket science! I guess your customers don't know how to read otherwise they wouldn't blindly hand over 10k to 15k.......a dealer very seldom tells a consumer how to balance their spa but rather to just dump in chems because if they did explain the water chemistry the customer might just use bleach for shock. knowledge is power. Ummmm I am not a dealer, I'm a service guy. I have a bunch of the type of spas you bought, in my area, they came from Home Depot and Sams club, Menards (our local kinda like costco stores) I like them for one reson, I get to service them. They are inexpensive tubs for sure, and perfect for someone who wants to invest less money up from to determine whether the hot tub life style is for them. But if you are looking for a tub that will last as long as the high end tubs you will be dissapointed down the road. But like I said for less money you can buy 2 of them. If a 4000 dollar tub lasts for 5 years and an 8000 tub lasts for 15 years the 4000 dollar tub is not such a good value. If a 4000 dollar tub lasts for 10 years and an 8000 dollar tub lasts last for 15 then the 4000 dollar tub is a good value. The only way you are going to know if your purchase was a good value is to wait it out or ask long time service guys and owners about there experience. Theres no other way, so how educated of a consumer are you? Have you asked about this brand from long time owners or long time service guys in your area? That information may not be available yet, so you may have to wait it out. I would be carefull spouting off about it's value though until you know. Most manufacturers have, at the end of an assembly line two piles of product (lets use electric motors) At the end of the line the motor goes through a bank of tests and one pile of motors passed all the tests with flying colors. In the other pile are the motors that didn't quit muster the high test standerds but are fine for resale, these motors will be sold for less money. Aquire these types of products from several suppliers and you will be able to build something like, say a boat for alot less money and sell it for alot less money. Theres a manufacturer in our area that builds boats, it's call Northwoods and the boats are called Northwoods. They are very inexpensive and alot less money than what is considered around here as a high end boat. But those who purchase them end up buying another after 5-6 maybe 10 years because the rivets have loosened up the carpet is wore out and generaly it is just falling apart. And there is no real old ones around because they just don't last that long. But the folks who pay a bit more for whats considered a quality brand, and there are several, usualy end up keeping the boats for 20-30 years with very little trouble. And as soon as you look at the 2 side by side you notice a big difference is fit and finnish and if you wait 5-6 years the difference becomes even more obvious. Give me facts other then your thoughts about the longevity of the Elite Spa I gave you facts about the longevity of my Great Lakes brand. I consider it a good value tub. On the other hand you are telling us yours is a good value but yet your the one not supplying any facts, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 But like I said for less money you can buy 2 of them. If a 4000 dollar tub lasts for 5 years and an 8000 tub lasts for 15 years the 4000 dollar tub is not such a good value. If a 4000 dollar tub lasts for 10 years and an 8000 dollar tub lasts last for 15 then the 4000 dollar tub is a good value. Still this cheap brand has already surpased your five year bench mark and you, better the anyone know the equipment is high quality..ie.. spa pacs, controlls, 56 frame motors, manifoled plumbing . ect. I see your opinion here but I already dissproved your five year theory by one year! Unless your going to now say the "good" spa will last 30 years and youd have to buy five "cheap" spas. Your ratio of longevity doesn't work nor your short life span of the spa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 That shows me you can't deal with me on a level playeing feild unless you try to manipulate my post and say untruths! I forgot, your used to telling fibs as a salesman Please point out ANY "untruths" you feel I have posted. I will address them in point form if you didn't understand what was written. Oh...and I don't retail spas so maybe try and get your facts straight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Please point out ANY "untruths" you feel I have posted. I will address them in point form if you didn't understand what was written. Oh...and I don't retail spas so maybe try and get your facts straight... Fact: Elite spa you disslike is older the five years. Fact: They don't purchase factory seconds motors and components. Fact: These spas aren't in the same league nor sold in Home Depot, Walmart or Sam's. fact: your boat comparison has nothing to do with this spa Well i'll go out on a limb here but I had a crew from Hotsprings deliver my spa from Costco for $350.00 for two miles and set it.. just call any local dealer they love the color of money! tried that they want 400 and it will be a week from now. I am accurate on what I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Nope. Every spa mfg. has a Mr. Mendoza You use the same old argument when you cannot deal with facts: you make a derogatory attack on a person. My guess is that there are plenty of people just like me who have had similar experience with Hydrospa. You argue with everybody on this board and have never posted any credentials of any kind. I wonder what expertise you have to make your prounouncements. I am convinced that you don't work for any manufacturer because like Jim said, it is stupid to argue with the customer. Please point out ANY "untruths" you feel I have posted. I will address them in point form if you didn't understand what was written. Oh...and I don't retail spas so maybe try and get your facts straight... Fact: Elite spa you disslike is older the five years. Fact: They don't purchase factory seconds motors and components. Fact: These spas aren't in the same league nor sold in Home Depot, Walmart or Sam's. fact: your boat comparison has nothing to do with this spa How do you know all this stuff when you said you were not a spa expert? Do you have an inside source on purchasing policices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 My guess is that there are plenty of people just like me who have had similar experience with Hydrospa Thats all it is , a guess not factuall. You use the same old argument Please explain that if you would? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Please point out ANY "untruths" you feel I have posted. I will address them in point form if you didn't understand what was written. Oh...and I don't retail spas so maybe try and get your facts straight... Fact: Elite spa you disslike is older the five years. Fact: They don't purchase factory seconds motors and components. Fact: These spas aren't in the same league nor sold in Home Depot, Walmart or Sam's. fact: your boat comparison has nothing to do with this spa Well i'll go out on a limb here but I had a crew from Hotsprings deliver my spa from Costco for $350.00 for two miles and set it.. just call any local dealer they love the color of money! tried that they want 400 and it will be a week from now. I am accurate on what I say! HAVE YOU BEEN SNIFFING PAINT? I didn't say any of that! You are confusing posts and posters so please, in future, if you are going to accuse me of something, get the FACTS STRAIGHT! As for your very last line...you are the furthest thing from accurate and there's an eerie resemblance in yours and Jim's posts. Let him talk long enough, and he buries himself...(and spells at a grade 3 level) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 First off why do you feel I was replying to you? never said I was! Second....Last line is one hundred percent accurate...don't believe me...ask the other poster about H.S. delivery..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 First off why do you feel I was replying to you? never said I was! Second....Last line is one hundred percent accurate...don't believe me...ask the other poster about H.S. delivery..... Ummm, because you have my post that you quoted at the top...Is this really difficult for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Why do you resort to personal attacks? Ya know what, I'm just going to let you believe all of that BS and move on. I see the product you purchased, the people you defend and the lack of knowledge you have about sales in general and I really don't have time to teach a 6 month old fractions nor you on shopping for value. or...... Try and find a spa forum where people have no clue and I bet you'll become their David Corresh in no time! And yes, that is you useing yor character assasination rather the discuss the topic....... Funny you worry about who I am and what I do rather then what I say..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmendoza17 Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Stevie, I began contending with paintsunni when he personally attacked me in his posts. All I did was post about a negative experience with a spa I purchased and asked for advice on the forum. Soon after, paintsunni objected to my post and began to attack. He refuses to answer the question about wwhat credentials he has, so either he is deceptively passing off as a consumer, or is just an ammateur know-it-all who likes to spout off opinions. Neither is enviable. Paint regularly asks lame questions to which he already has answers in mind. When others disagree, he attacks them personally. To top it off, paint complains that others attack him, when it may as well be his trademark. What a piece of work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 My! My! What a ding dong is going on here! I have just purchased a lovely new hot tub from a very reputable company here in the UK and am glad I did not get it from any of you dealers. This remark is not intended to be derogatory to anyone in particular but is just an observation and an eyeopener into what appears to be the shady world of spa wheeling and dealing. You may not have thought how much damage your rantings are making on the spa scene. More and more people are considering becoming hot tubs owners and so this forum is being read my millions of people across the world . I like Paintsunni am new to "hot tubbing" and, moreover, like many new owners were hoping this site would offer some honest, genuine unbiased advice, however, we as readers are having a peep into a very dodgy and contrived forum and are also taking note of various spa manufacturers and dealers that are playing perfidious and crooked games with our hard earnt money. I feel this is doing the spa business alot of harm, in particular certain mentioned spas on these postings. If their engineering is anything like their command of the English language, then...........draw your own conclusions. Sellers beware..........Public be aware! Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintnsunni Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Its not just me!!!!!!!!! More people Think with logic and and know the value of a dollar and don't appreciate being rooked out of thousands over a phasod of a better product when in fact there is very little difference other then substantial cost. as for Mr. mendoza. I am sure you did question the huge disparity in cost, your case was 5k easily. You have had issues with your spa and shouldn't have but you are not the norm, unfortunatly it was you! My freind has a Sundance tub perported to be a quality spa and is in a dispute over microcrazeing of the shell in which the dealer support just bowed out so its the factory and the consumer much like you Mr. Mendoza. Good news is you do have a warranty and a company that will service your spa but for 5k less and her local dealer who won't help her now.. so much for dealer support. I hope for my freind aand Mr. Mendoza things work out well. I feel they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davidny Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Can't we all just get along? I think this all comes down to 'you get what you pay for.' and caveat emptor. Now hop in your tubs and chill :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Its not just me!!!!!!!!! More people Think with logic and and know the value of a dollar and don't appreciate being rooked out of thousands over a phasod of a better product when in fact there is very little difference other then substantial cost. My wife can speak for the fact that when I shop I study the product, look for deals (I am known to many as a coupon junkie), research and always have to make sure I get a good deal whether it's a car, big screen TV or a pizza. I always balance between cost and quality and the older I've gotten the more I've learned that there is a trade off and it's all about value. Your approach to shopping for a spa is probably not different that mine would be so I think it all gets down to the conclusions we draw and the last statement you made covers it: "when in fact there is very little difference other then substantial cost." What you see as being "rooked out of of thousands" others see as a higher quality product as they do see a "difference other then substantial cost" . To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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