Diary, The Purchasse Of A Costco Tub

[Matt87109]

Today I ordered the following tub from costco. I am generating this post to document my experiences in real time. I'm hoping for smooth sailing, but I promise to accurately document the process so both views in the whole costco tub argument can have a simple post to read. I'm wasting my time doing this because I want to give back to this community and provide some real data as many here have helped me. Please DO NOT post denigrating text that offers no technical value (that includes you Roger ) as we all know the general consensus. Thanks, Matt

To give you perspective:

-I have a technical background

-have wet tested a number of leading spas

-returned one tub to costco about five years ago after a month due to a leak that damaged the interior of the tub badly

-want just an adequate tub as a starter. If this tub lasts five years and I can prove to myself that I'm dedicated to the process than maybe I'll consider a more expensive tub.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...〈=en-US

http://calspas.net/images/swf/oc-hot-tubs-m534-video.html

because this link will eventually go inactive I'll copy and paste the specifications below.

-I noted that some of the specifications on the costco site and the "watch demo" link that goes to calspas (link above) site don't agree. One difference being that costco site indicates 1 year labor while the OC pdf indicates no labor coverage. Another is 1 pump on costco's site and two pumps on cal's site. Also the control has a different specification. This is bothersome, but for a low cost tub I don't really care as long as it operates.

Specs from costco's site:

Majestic Series – MOC-534L:

Standard Features:

· Seating: 3 Person

· Dimensions: 64” x 84” x 32”

· Total # of Jets: 34 Stainless Steel Spoke Jets

· 16 Micro Flow Directional Jets (ED)

· 13 Euro Less Eyeball Jets (ELE)

· 4 Euro Directional Jets (ED)

· 1 Ozone Jet (OZ)

· Full Foam Insulation

· Water Treatment: Ozonator Installed

· High Performance Pump: 1 x 6.0BHP 240V

· Pump Voltage: 240V (Electrical connections must be made by qualified and licensed personnel. Improper installation present Hazards, which can result in personal injury or property damage. Please contact a licensed residential electrician for these services)

· 2” Plumbing

· Gate Valves

· Lighting: 12V Spa Light

· Filter Screw In with Weir Gate: 50 sq. ft.

· 3 Comfort Pillows

· Weight: Dry: 600lbs Filled: 3,307 lbs

· Water Capacity: 325 USG

· Equipment: "V300 Control with Digital Top Side"

· Flow-Through Heater

· Low Profile Drain (LPFD)

· Wall Drain

· Cabinet Accessible Drain Valve

· Pressure Treated Cabinet Frame

· Standard Bottom Tray

· Shell Color: Snow White

· Synthetic Cabinet Panels: Mist

· Cover: Gray

Warranty:

· 5 Years - Structural

· 2 Years - Finish

· 2 Years - Parts

· 1 Year - Labor

[Matt87109]

Today I received confirmation from the suppler. They requested that I read, sign, and fax back the delivery instructions. The delivery instructions indicated that my tub may arrive in one week rather than the 4-6 weeks.

I noted that the 1000 dollar return fee note that was present in the delivery instructions from costco's website is not present on the form they are asking me to sign. I'll note that costco also told me that the fee would not be charged if the tub was defective. That is fine by me because I'm only interested in the product arriving safely and not having any early failures. At this point I have a lot of faith that costco will take care of me short of me trying to rip them off by sending back a well used tub.

So far so good.

[Dr. Spa]

costco is now charging $1000 to return a spa? This I don't think I've heard before. Any one else?

Does this make their unconditional return policy.........conditional?

side notes;

This fee is between you and costco, there's not reason for the manufacture to mention it in their instructions.

What constitutes "defective"? Would an ordinary breakdown, be it under warranty or not, be considered a defect?

[Matt87109]

No they do not charge the fee.

The "1000 fee" was on a linked document on costco's site. The link went to the manufacturers site, so it's not even costco saying that.

It was the manufacturer sticking that small print in, but as I said the actual document signed does not have that small print and costco has told me that short of trying to return it after it's heavily used they would take care of me.

I can't make comment about what "defective" is defined as. I can say that five years ago after having a costco tub for one month I noticed water dripping out of the side. Upon opening the mechanical compartment I noted standing water and separated plywood. I called costco and they had it extracted from the very place I installed it and refunded all of my money.

Anyway so far so good. I'll post as milestones are passed or not. Costco haters please don't run with this and hijack the post. Thanks.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

costco is now charging $1000 to return a spa? This I don't think I've heard before. Any one else?

I there a link to this? It only makes sense based on the quality of spas from Costco over the past couple years along with the fact that most every spa maker they've done business with has gone belly up.

[doubled]

I feel for you Matt - you just can't keep these guys away. Keep up the diary!

[Roger]

I feel for you Matt - you just can't keep these guys away. Keep up the diary!

Matt will disapear before a year of ownership goes by, they almost all do. Keep up the diary if you feel it's of use to you. I doudt anyone else will get much out of it except your opinion.

[Matt87109]

costco is now charging $1000 to return a spa? This I don't think I've heard before. Any one else?

I there a link to this? It only makes sense based on the quality of spas from Costco over the past couple years along with the fact that most every spa maker they've done business with has gone belly up.

hi spatech. if you follow the link to costco's site, scroll down to the bottom left and click on that link. a pdf with the delivery instructions will come up. the "returns" note at the bottom is not present on the form I was asked to sign but it's similar otherwise.

[Matt87109]

I feel for you Matt - you just can't keep these guys away. Keep up the diary!

Matt will disapear before a year of ownership goes by, they almost all do. Keep up the diary if you feel it's of use to you. I doudt anyone else will get much out of it except your opinion.

Hey moderator that deleted my post requesting rogers negative post be removed. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but it certainly has me wondering about the integrity of this forum. Feel free to delete this entire post because I won't be adding anything additional.

EDIT ADD: After getting several personal message from others saying they valued my post I've decided to add additional comments. If you are reading this to get my story you will have to scroll though all the other comments as I'm just posting for other potential costco buyers that come in the future, not to have the same old debate. Thanks.

[soakerguy]

I have full faith in Costco's 100% money back. I just returned a four year old lcd tv that had dead pixels and in twenty minutes was out the door with a brand new tv bigger better and absolutely no hassle along with money in my pocket! I have no doubt that a spa return will go exactly the same as any retun. NO HASSLE PERIOD! They even refund your tax!

[Roger]

I feel for you Matt - you just can't keep these guys away. Keep up the diary!

Matt will disapear before a year of ownership goes by, they almost all do. Keep up the diary if you feel it's of use to you. I doudt anyone else will get much out of it except your opinion.

Hey moderator that deleted my post requesting rogers negative post be removed. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but it certainly has me wondering about the integrity of this forum. Feel free to delete this entire post because I won't be adding anything additional.

Several people have chronicled there Costco tub experiences here. From purchase to broke to return. I just don't think there's much value in it, sorry that is my opinion. I'm not sure why you think there is value in it. If your experience goes OK because your tub works when you hook it up great!!! But it's only one and for every one that gets hooked up and functions, several don't.

My post wasn't meant to be derogitory at all Matt. I just don't see any value. We who have been here for 5-10 and even more years have seen hundreds of Costco/Home Depot/Sams Club purchasers come here wondering why there tub was falling apart in only a couple years or so. A good quality high end Hot Tub is designed to last for 10-15 or even 20 years and yet theres was struggling to make it to 5. And yet we still have folks who tell us our advise is simply that of naysayers, or Costco bashers or whatever you want to call it. Yet 2-3 years or so down the road there are never any folks who stick around here and give there insights to owning one of the inexpensive tubs sold at box store. (except Soaker) but to him our experience is BS because of the luck he says he is having with his....Thats One!! It seems that after a couple years your diary may be worth a whole lot more!!

I joined this forum I think 7-8 years ago and people who don't believe anything my experience, or several others here have to give them come and go by the thousands phhhttttt who cares. We give advice because we enjoy it and some gain allot from our advice. Thats why I do it. Those who don't probably don't gain allot from anyones advice. I use feedback (advice) as a gift. And it's a learned thing to do that.

I get called a Costco Basher when in all my years here and all the advice I have given my words are this. Those tubs that they sell are designed to be a price point tub and they are exactly that. Inexpensive in price and inexpensivly built and worth every nickle.

[Dr. Spa]

Agenda? The only one that seems to have an agenda here is you. You're the one seemingly making demands for your "conditional posting". Roger has as much right to post his opinions and experiences as you. I saw no negativity in Rogers post. Actually, I got a nice chuckle out of it, and thought to myself, "amen brother" as I read it. Notice Roger is member #8...that in itself lend to credibility. You don't have the right to demand posts that aren't in agreement with yours to be removed...unless you feel they violate the Board Guidelines. Your welcome to PM me if you believe they do, and I'll take it under advisement.

BTW costco's current return warranty on TV's (and computers) is rather limited in time. 30 or 60 days now?

[Trigger]

Keep in mind that "Costco Tubs" are not a brand. Costco is simply a discount retailer.

The tubs that costco has sold over the past several years have been from several different manufactuers.

The only real debate that I have found is answering the question "are they a good deal?"

When you seperate opionin from fact and personal ego, it's been shown that overall the tubs being offered from costco are consistently of a lower quality than the premiun brands that are often compared to. They usually contain, lower end parts, inferior insulation, poor support, etc.

a $3000 tub from costco is exactly that; a 3000 budget tub being sold by Costco. It is not a $9000.00 Hotsprings and for some folks, that's what they want.

The only arguments seem to be when people claim that a $3000 tub from a dsicount retailer is just the same as tub costing 2-3 x at a dealer.

Are they good deal? Eh; That's opinion. Salesmen who deal with the higher end premium brands will say "no". Experinced owners will say "no". Repair Technicians will say "no It seems that the only folks who say "yes" are new owners and prospective newbies.

[valvestem]

I am enjoying reading about the Costco experience. Mainly because I have not seen all the other related posts about them. I am also seeing a spirited digression of the OP into the area of "this has been done before". There are always repeated subject posts on all the forums, so I am not upset over that. This in fact maybe a complete new way to go about the Costco purchase as it is trying to be written as a diary, I like it.

[Roger]

I am enjoying reading about the Costco experience. Mainly because I have not seen all the other related posts about them. I am also seeing a spirited digression of the OP into the area of "this has been done before". There are always repeated subject posts on all the forums, so I am not upset over that. This in fact maybe a complete new way to go about the Costco purchase as it is trying to be written as a diary, I like it.

I do to. Keep honesty to the forfront and ego's aside it could give potential buyers some insight but it will have to remain active for more than a few months or even a year for it to be of any use whatsoever.

Who was it that had the couple year old Infinity purchased from Costco? If we could get in all honesty all the problems and power consumption data (not speculation) that that poster has had from day one we could gain insight. I know Sandi's is getting to be over a year old or so, but I also know she has had some problems.

[soakerguy]

I am enjoying reading about the Costco experience. Mainly because I have not seen all the other related posts about them. I am also seeing a spirited digression of the OP into the area of "this has been done before". There are always repeated subject posts on all the forums, so I am not upset over that. This in fact maybe a complete new way to go about the Costco purchase as it is trying to be written as a diary, I like it.

I do to. Keep honesty to the fo rfront and ego's aside it could give potential buyers some insight but it will have to remain active for more than a few months or even a year for it to be of any use whatsoever.

Who was it that had the couple year old Infinity purchased from Costco? If we could get in all honesty all the problems and power consumption data (not speculation) that that poster has had from day one we could gain insight. I know Sandi's is getting to be over a year old or so, but I also know she has had some problems.

But then again there are many people like me that have a three year old Platinum II from Costco with absolutely no issues and no huge electric bill either. And as far as the LCD T.V. I returned to Costco, The purchase was made before the new electronics 90 day return policy went into effect. You are not denied a return when they change the policy but rather the return policy that was in effect at the time of your purchase is what is honored.

[code]"a $3000 tub from costco is exactly that; a 3000 budget tub being sold by Costco. It is not a $9000.00 Hotsprings and for some folks, that's what they want. "

[/code]you are right, it is a $6000.00 dealer spa equivilant! The spa dealers around here do not offer anything at all in the $3000.00 to $4000.00 range to campare at all, If they did, you'd have a good argument but the fact is they don't!

[Roger]

"a $3000 tub from costco is exactly that; a 3000 budget tub being sold by Costco. It is not a $9000.00 Hotsprings and for some folks, that's what they want. you are right, it is a $6000.00 dealer spa equivilant! The spa dealers around here do not offer anything at all in the $3000.00 to $4000.00 range to campare at all, If they did, you'd have a good argument but the fact is they don't!

Wrong soaker, dealers here sell an equivelent spa for a 1000 to 1500 more. And that 1.5G's gets you local support, a knowledgable staff, service that you don't have to do yourself. And delivery. Your area seems to be an anoumaly and you had a bad experience with your local dealers. That's to bad, but don't lump the entire country into your perception.

But even if you pay the 1.5G's more for what the dealers here offer, your still getting a tub that won't last as long, have the fit and finish, look as well built or be as effiecient as an 8 grand tub.

[soakerguy]

I'd love to see examples of that. Our local Sundance dealer doesnet have anything comparable even in the 680 series. none under 6k! that line of spas is a grade lower then what I have and alot more money. Hotsprings doesent have one tub that is comparable for less then 6k!

[Roger]

I'd love to see examples of that. Our local Sundance dealer doesnet have anything comparable even in the 680 series. none under 6k! that line of spas is a grade lower then what I have and alot more money. Hotsprings doesent have one tub that is comparable for less then 6k!

A grade lower than your Infinity huh? Why because you have 30-40 holes in your shell with bullet jets in them that bring the jet count up, when theres truely only 10 or so real jets and another 10 crappy ones? How can you surmise yours is better when I cut up and disposed of a 16 YO Sundance last week and yours is how old? I sold a 6 YO Great Lakes that was a year or to from it's death that was a 4000 dollar tub. The Sundance was a 6000 dollar tub and it was 16 years old!!!

Or does longevity not count in our evaluation of tubs? For some it is the MOST important factor. I'm not a Sundance fan but there seems to be some value in 8-10 years more of ownership.

[Chris H]

I just wanted to make a comment regarding Hotspring. Hotspring offers a Solana TX for approximately $3,500 to $4,000.

It can be found here: http://www.solanaspas.com/showroom_tx.html

Costco offers a spa very similar found here and it sells for $3,500: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?...p=C&topnav=

Not much difference if you ask me and the Hotspring comes from a dealer that services the product and delivery to you back yard. I pay $500 bucks for that.

[kengorman]

I'd love to see examples of that. Our local Sundance dealer doesnet have anything comparable even in the 680 series. none under 6k! that line of spas is a grade lower then what I have and alot more money. Hotsprings doesent have one tub that is comparable for less then 6k!

I chronicled my experience with the local Sundance dealer quoting $9k for a Chelsee in September 2007 on this board. The short story is I went with an Infinity tub for $2999 - about 1/3 of what the dealer was charging for a similarly spec'ed Sundance tub.

I don't frequent this board as often as I once did, but I see the same folks are keeping the Costco bashing alive. Unfortunately, Infinity went out-of-business, but not before I got a great deal on my tub. Incidentally, the local Sundance dealer who quoted me $9k went out of business as well - this economy is definitely pinching the hot tub market.

Good thing I didn't purchase a local spa for the local support - that support evaporated. Anyone who suggests buying from a local dealer because the dealer will stand by their product should consider that dealers can go out of business.

I've previously documented on this board the difference between the Sundance Chelsee and the Infinity tub I got. Without rehashing everything, the tubs are virtually equivalent. I know some will have issues with this statement, but hot tubs aren't complex pieces of machinery. They are simply a shell, control pack, a few motors, and some jets. Sundance and Infinity get their parts from the same suppliers (Waterway, Balboa, etc.). The fit and finish on my tub was top-notch.

My tub runs today as well as it did when I got it in September 2007. I'll check in again in year or so to provide another update.

Regards,

Ken

[Roger]

Sundance and Infinity get their parts from the same suppliers (Waterway, Balboa, etc.). The fit and finish on my tub was top-notch.

My tub runs today as well as it did when I got it in September 2007. I'll check in again in year or so to provide another update.

Regards,

Ken

And of the 34 different Packs that Balboa makes, ranging in price from 225 to 1400 and the 121 different jets Waterway makes, ranging in price from 7 bucks to 66 bucks your absolutly certain Sundance and Infinity used the same ones? I did not know that!!!!

[Hillbilly Hot Tub]

Along with...what they back the acrylic with and how well they do the process.

Your local Sundance DEALER is gone, not Sundance. They will find someone to service their tubs (we just became a service center for them due to the local delaer going under) Infinity itself is gone...no support.

We used to be a dealer for Infinity spas 3-4 years ago. I see what the tubs are doing after this time frame, yes they are still in the field, but everyone but 1 of them has had work doen on it and 75% of them have blisters forming in the shell. (Bad backing process), the covers are crap and the synthetic cabinets are looking rough. This should not be after 3-4 years.

By the way, they used custom molded jets which are a chinese knockoff of waterway. They also used the low end Balboa and added "sister" boards on tubs that needed extras. This is a poor way of doing things and a problem in the future trying to replace those "sister" boards.

I usually don't say much about the whole box store stuff, but every company the box stores have delt with has gone out of buisness (or nearly such as Jacuzzi) and people need to understand, you get what you pay for. Many of us in the industry have talked with the manufactue such as balboa Auqa flo and waterway and they will tell you, they do make a lower quality part for these entry level tubs. If you take a $3000.00 tub and stuctue wise it lasts for 5 years, thats $600.00 a year. If you take a $8000.00 and structure wise it lasts 20 years its $400.00 year. Now add in the electric savings, the savings of not replacing the cover every 2 years ect, I like the overall savings. Plus the customer service is key in any major purchase I make.

This is my 2 cents.

[spatech (the unreal one)]

I know some will have issues with this statement, but hot tubs aren't complex pieces of machinery. They are simply a shell, control pack, a few motors, and some jets. Sundance and Infinity get their parts from the same suppliers (Waterway, Balboa, etc.).

Read Hillbilly's post above for more specifics but hot tubs are not complex. That can be said for many things but that doesn't mean all brands are equal or even close. My buddy who installs AC units is doing so for a friend of mine and was explaining how there are good AC units and junk AC units. He said some people just don't want to spend the $ and they make teh mistake of getting units that are not efficient and won't last. He can advise them otherwise but that only goes so far. Just as with hot tubs, they all have, compressors, condensers, etc. and probably many are from the same suppliers just like Balboa makes cheap controls, medium quality ones and good ones. To even think two spas are equivalent because they both happen to use Balboa and Waterway is ridiculous.

The thing that kills me more than anything is besides the fact that people talk themselves into thinking the specs are similar and the features are similar and they all buy parts from the same suppliers is the fact that those who buy some of these low end spas end up paying $50/month more to run them and the NEVER seem to factor that in (or allow themselves to believe it).

[sandi]

Who was it that had the couple year old Infinity purchased from Costco? If we could get in all honesty all the problems and power consumption data (not speculation) that that poster has had from day one we could gain insight. I know Sandi's is getting to be over a year old or so, but I also know she has had some problems.

OK, I'll weigh in. My Infinity spa from Costco is fast approaching its 2nd birthday (in July). It's running fine and I don't regret my decision a bit. As I have said several times, this is our first spa and I wasn't about to spend more than $3K on something that we might not love. Turns out it was a good decision b/c we only use the spa about once or twice a week and, when this one dies, I'm not sure that we'll even replace it. While I certainly wasn't thrilled that Infinity went out of business and took my warranty with it, if I have a major problem within the next year or so, I'll use the Costco return policy. My husband and I are both DIYers and the repair guys on here are great at troubleshooting and very generous about offering free advice. As for problems, only one real problem and a couple of "thought there was a problem but there really wasn't."

I'll start with the real problem and I can tell "the rest of the story" now that Infinity is out of business and can't send someone out to my house to collect. Our house was struck by lightning when the spa was still less than a year old. At the suggestion of one of the guys on here (who shall remain nameless unless he wants to step up), I called Infinity and said, "My spa was working yesterday, but it's not working today." Infinity shipped me a whole new spa pack and sent a repair guy out to replace it at no charge.

When the repair guy was here, he said that we were missing one of the slice valves. I called Infinity and told them I wanted the slice valve added. They shipped the valve and arranged for the same guy to come out and add it. When he got here the 2nd time, he found the slice valve (the t-shaped handle that you turn had some spray foam covering it - not a lot but I guess enough that the guy couldn't see it). So that wasn't really a problem.

Some time after that, I was getting error messages on the topside panel that the heater sensors weren't working correctly and I figured one or both had died. Roger told me what they looked like and I opened the spa pack figuring I would disconnect them and call Infinity to send me new ones. Turns out that one was just a little loose - as soon as I pushed it in all the way, the error messages stopped.

In addition, I got an air lock once when the skimmer basket wasn't put in properly and floated up and out into the spa. Again, Roger walked me thru how to get rid of an air lock - problem solved.

As I said earlier, we're pretty good about doing things ourselves. We added extra insulation to all 4 sides the first fall that we had the spa (before we got an astronomical bill) and use a floating blanket and, best estimate, the spa only adds about $30 to our electric bill per month (repeat - estimate. I have never metered it). Knock on wood, we have had none of the problems Hillbilly alluded to - no shell blistering, our cover is still in great shape, and the cabinet looks fine.

As long as I own a spa, I'll be sticking around this forum so I'll be happy to keep documenting the details of our ownership.

Sandi