Jazser Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Hi - first time poster. I've been researching spas as my 1995 Hotsprings Highlife kicked the bucket (over $1k in repairs, not counting potential leaks). I just bought the house with the tub in June - figures. Anyway, I've been looking for a replacement and I should note that I haven't wet tested anything yet (I know this is essential). But I have been working with a local dealer or two, and I've maininly been researching brands. From these forums, and many others I've visited (not the easiest to find), Hotsprings, D1, Sundance, Catalina. Caldera (HS) and a few others have consistantly been rated well. However, it is apparent that a) there are no brands that are exempt from someone having absolute nightmares and the dealer seems important. The current dealer I am working with (excellent technical knowlege), suggested that there is a new model coming from Lay Z Boy that we was very impressed with at the Spa show in Las Vegas. Some of the unique features are a salt system (which I know little about - I think Arctic has used salt based systems in the past), the first variable speed motor (with 10 speed settings to select jet power), and massage action similar to a massage chair (jets fire in sequence up and down your back to simulate a massage). These are being made by Tatum (Gulf Coast, Pilates, Freestyle, Garden Leisure, Centurion, Cool Nights). I have read some posts about costco tubs made by this company - I'm not interested in getting in a costco discussion. But I would be interested in any help/advice regarding these new technologies, and any feedback about salt sanitation. http://www.lazboyspas.com/spas/providence.asp is the model I'm considering. I haven't ruled out HS, Sundance etc by any means - but I love the idea of reduced or no chemicals, and I like the features of this tub. Thanks for any help you can provide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIALDA Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Hi - first time poster. I've been researching spas as my 1995 Hotsprings Highlife kicked the bucket (over $1k in repairs, not counting potential leaks). I just bought the house with the tub in June - figures. Anyway, I've been looking for a replacement and I should note that I haven't wet tested anything yet (I know this is essential). But I have been working with a local dealer or two, and I've maininly been researching brands. From these forums, and many others I've visited (not the easiest to find), Hotsprings, D1, Sundance, Catalina. Caldera (HS) and a few others have consistantly been rated well. However, it is apparent that a) there are no brands that are exempt from someone having absolute nightmares and the dealer seems important. The current dealer I am working with (excellent technical knowlege), suggested that there is a new model coming from Lay Z Boy that we was very impressed with at the Spa show in Las Vegas. Some of the unique features are a salt system (which I know little about - I think Arctic has used salt based systems in the past), the first variable speed motor (with 10 speed settings to select jet power), and massage action similar to a massage chair (jets fire in sequence up and down your back to simulate a massage). These are being made by Tatum (Gulf Coast, Pilates, Freestyle, Garden Leisure, Centurion, Cool Nights). I have read some posts about costco tubs made by this company - I'm not interested in getting in a costco discussion. But I would be interested in any help/advice regarding these new technologies, and any feedback about salt sanitation. http://www.lazboyspas.com/spas/providence.asp is the model I'm considering. I haven't ruled out HS, Sundance etc by any means - but I love the idea of reduced or no chemicals, and I like the features of this tub. Thanks for any help you can provide! This is the best post I have seen in a while. There are names on here that even I dont think about, and you are new and just looking. Geeez You think these people are stupid!! I cannot believe your office let you post this, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Spa Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Search Tatum Manufacturing. The first link in Google lists ALL the brands they make...and he left off Shoreline Besides, his IP number leads to Colorado Stop being so paranoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Search Tatum Manufacturing. The first link in Google lists ALL the brands they make...and he left off Shoreline Besides, his IP number leads to Colorado Stop being so paranoid Nothing you mentioned is new technology....nothing. Salt systems have been around for years and several manufacturers including Arctic offer it. And it IS NOT a reduced chemical tub. Salt systems produce chlorine!! Variable speed pumps have been around for years. It's not offered in many tubs but the pumps are here (I think Calspa still offers one) And 2-3 manufacturers offer sequential jets that actualy work and will be relativly reliable. I dout anything from Tatum will be very reliable as there reputation proceeds them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 8, 2009 Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Roger covered it pretty well. That spa may have looked nice siting on the floor at the spa show but you need something that will be reliable in your back yard and Tatum isn't known for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazser Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 Hi - first time poster. I've been researching spas as my 1995 Hotsprings Highlife kicked the bucket (over $1k in repairs, not counting potential leaks). I just bought the house with the tub in June - figures. Anyway, I've been looking for a replacement and I should note that I haven't wet tested anything yet (I know this is essential). But I have been working with a local dealer or two, and I've maininly been researching brands. From these forums, and many others I've visited (not the easiest to find), Hotsprings, D1, Sundance, Catalina. Caldera (HS) and a few others have consistantly been rated well. However, it is apparent that a) there are no brands that are exempt from someone having absolute nightmares and the dealer seems important. The current dealer I am working with (excellent technical knowlege), suggested that there is a new model coming from Lay Z Boy that we was very impressed with at the Spa show in Las Vegas. Some of the unique features are a salt system (which I know little about - I think Arctic has used salt based systems in the past), the first variable speed motor (with 10 speed settings to select jet power), and massage action similar to a massage chair (jets fire in sequence up and down your back to simulate a massage). These are being made by Tatum (Gulf Coast, Pilates, Freestyle, Garden Leisure, Centurion, Cool Nights). I have read some posts about costco tubs made by this company - I'm not interested in getting in a costco discussion. But I would be interested in any help/advice regarding these new technologies, and any feedback about salt sanitation. http://www.lazboyspas.com/spas/providence.asp is the model I'm considering. I haven't ruled out HS, Sundance etc by any means - but I love the idea of reduced or no chemicals, and I like the features of this tub. Thanks for any help you can provide! This is the best post I have seen in a while. There are names on here that even I dont think about, and you are new and just looking. Geeez You think these people are stupid!! I cannot believe your office let you post this, Ok this made me laugh - as I have been known to be paranoid about shills. Usually I can spot them from a mile, but I never thought I'd be acused of being one - showed this to my wife as she knows I have been obsessing over research since our spa broke. I take it as a compliment! Seriously though, when I was on the phone with them they mentioned Costco, and I found some other info through searches on this website - I then was able to pull up their press release on their site - which listed out the other brands they manufacture.I typed them up in order - but I couldn't read my own writing and left off Shoreline. So Don't be so quick to pull the "shill" trigger! I'm a normal guy living in the foothills of Colorado with a broken Hotsprings Highlife! Thank you for the info regarding the existing technologies Roger - I thought as much. I had read Arctic had salt systems, but I did not know that other companies had tried variable speed motors and sequential jets. Do you know which companies use this? How do they work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lighthouse206 Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Hi - first time poster. I've been researching spas as my 1995 Hotsprings Highlife kicked the bucket (over $1k in repairs, not counting potential leaks). I just bought the house with the tub in June - figures. Anyway, I've been looking for a replacement and I should note that I haven't wet tested anything yet (I know this is essential). But I have been working with a local dealer or two, and I've maininly been researching brands. From these forums, and many others I've visited (not the easiest to find), Hotsprings, D1, Sundance, Catalina. Caldera (HS) and a few others have consistantly been rated well. However, it is apparent that a) there are no brands that are exempt from someone having absolute nightmares and the dealer seems important. The current dealer I am working with (excellent technical knowlege), suggested that there is a new model coming from Lay Z Boy that we was very impressed with at the Spa show in Las Vegas. Some of the unique features are a salt system (which I know little about - I think Arctic has used salt based systems in the past), the first variable speed motor (with 10 speed settings to select jet power), and massage action similar to a massage chair (jets fire in sequence up and down your back to simulate a massage). These are being made by Tatum (Gulf Coast, Pilates, Freestyle, Garden Leisure, Centurion, Cool Nights). I have read some posts about costco tubs made by this company - I'm not interested in getting in a costco discussion. But I would be interested in any help/advice regarding these new technologies, and any feedback about salt sanitation. http://www.lazboyspas.com/spas/providence.asp is the model I'm considering. I haven't ruled out HS, Sundance etc by any means - but I love the idea of reduced or no chemicals, and I like the features of this tub. Thanks for any help you can provide! This is the best post I have seen in a while. There are names on here that even I dont think about, and you are new and just looking. Geeez You think these people are stupid!! I cannot believe your office let you post this, Ok this made me laugh - as I have been known to be paranoid about shills. Usually I can spot them from a mile, but I never thought I'd be acused of being one - showed this to my wife as she knows I have been obsessing over research since our spa broke. I take it as a compliment! Seriously though, when I was on the phone with them they mentioned Costco, and I found some other info through searches on this website - I then was able to pull up their press release on their site - which listed out the other brands they manufacture.I typed them up in order - but I couldn't read my own writing and left off Shoreline. So Don't be so quick to pull the "shill" trigger! I'm a normal guy living in the foothills of Colorado with a broken Hotsprings Highlife! Thank you for the info regarding the existing technologies Roger - I thought as much. I had read Arctic had salt systems, but I did not know that other companies had tried variable speed motors and sequential jets. Do you know which companies use this? How do they work? I I have done a fair amount of research on Tatum / Living Waters. What I've found is that a good number of industry insiders (not just on this board) despise them for lots of reasons. I've also interacted with some actual satisfied customers. If you do searching I think you'll find very few posts on here or any other board with an actual Tatum customer agreeing that the product they received is junk (as the dealers and techs on here will tell you). If you look at the online reviews of Costco tubs made by Tatum you'll see plenty of positive reviews and some not so positive ones. Be sure to look at both Costco.ca (Canada) and Costco.com (US) as both sell Pilates, which looks like near twins to these Lazyboy models... The biggest con I found (and the sole reason I didn't purchase the Pilates/Tatum product) is that there seems to be general agreement that these tubs aren't as well insulated as other brands. I live in a northern-ish climate and energy efficiency is very important to me, even if the power here is pretty cheap. Like you, I haven't found any other tub with the sequential pump massage chair system featured on these tubs. This is a fascinating feature and very interesting technology. The only thing I've found that even sort of compares is the MotoMassage on HotSprings. Of course, I'd assume that this feature is reason to suspect a greater likelyhood of mechanical issues in the future as it probably involves moving parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thank you for the info regarding the existing technologies Roger - I thought as much. I had read Arctic had salt systems, but I did not know that other companies had tried variable speed motors and sequential jets. Do you know which companies use this? How do they work? Moto massage by Hot Springs. Dynamic Massage Sequencer from D1 just to name 2 off the top of my head. I gaurentee there are more. The Moto is OK, I'm not a big fan. I think the Sequencer from D1 is cool though. They both are relatively trouble free also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 If you do searching I think you'll find very few posts on here or any other board with an actual Tatum customer agreeing that the product they received is junk (as the dealers and techs on here will tell you). The problems with Living Waters (and all the names they went by previously) are concentrated in 3 areas: 1) Lack of quality 2) Lack of warranty service (the purpose of their touted 24 hr phone help is so they can get YOU to fix the spa rather than send out a service person) 3) They are energy pigs. Plan on paying probably $40 more per month to run their spas versus a well insulated spa (that's $500 per year). Here are just a few people less than impressed from Doc's review site. There are MANY more out there saying the same thing and the past couple years 80% of the reviews seem to be less than kind: http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1021 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/2655 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1219 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1222 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1268 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/9359 http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=670 (look for Cueball's post) http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/2273 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=2132 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=2655 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/2420 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl?rev=9381 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.p...mes;read=105201 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1203 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1113 http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/reviews/reviews.pl/read/1183 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps558 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Hi - first time poster. I've been researching spas as my 1995 Hotsprings Highlife kicked the bucket (over $1k in repairs, not counting potential leaks). I just bought the house with the tub in June - figures. Anyway, I've been looking for a replacement and I should note that I haven't wet tested anything yet (I know this is essential). But I have been working with a local dealer or two, and I've maininly been researching brands. From these forums, and many others I've visited (not the easiest to find), Hotsprings, D1, Sundance, Catalina. Caldera (HS) and a few others have consistantly been rated well. However, it is apparent that a) there are no brands that are exempt from someone having absolute nightmares and the dealer seems important. The current dealer I am working with (excellent technical knowlege), suggested that there is a new model coming from Lay Z Boy that we was very impressed with at the Spa show in Las Vegas. Some of the unique features are a salt system (which I know little about - I think Arctic has used salt based systems in the past), the first variable speed motor (with 10 speed settings to select jet power), and massage action similar to a massage chair (jets fire in sequence up and down your back to simulate a massage). These are being made by Tatum (Gulf Coast, Pilates, Freestyle, Garden Leisure, Centurion, Cool Nights). I have read some posts about costco tubs made by this company - I'm not interested in getting in a costco discussion. But I would be interested in any help/advice regarding these new technologies, and any feedback about salt sanitation. http://www.lazboyspas.com/spas/providence.asp is the model I'm considering. I haven't ruled out HS, Sundance etc by any means - but I love the idea of reduced or no chemicals, and I like the features of this tub. Thanks for any help you can provide! Don't forget they just got the Coleman name rights to make spas under that logo. I also believe they now call themselves Living Water Products. Or at least that is what they are using to Make the Coleman now D1 use to make spas with sequencing seats and I know the top of the line Maax Spas has one. Tatumis not that great of a product. I have not seen one with variable speed pump, I like to see that it action from them and what they lied about. My opinion they are not very insulated, the exterior panels suck are the two biggies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazser Posted January 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 well the whole energy thing is a huge minus for me - so thanks for letting me know about their high energy consumption. I'm going down with my wife to check out Sundance, Hotsprings, and Artic on sunday (wet testing). Talked to the sundance guy for a while on the phone - nice guy, I think he was biting his tongue quite a bit trying not to bash the Artic tubs. He felt HS and Sundance were a lot more comparable. He was adament that full foam was the way to go - interesting, he pointed out that the highly touted technology where "the pump keeps the dead air space warm" doesn't make sense because a)the energy has to come from somewhere, so how much longer does the pump have to run to create the extra heat, and now you've got a pump that is running in a heated air space (say 104 degrees), which isn't condusive to longevity. I guess that makes sense to a point - you have to cool down a motor to have it run more efficiently and last longer (usually passive/venting). Anyway - I think they are all good tubs, and Artic does have one of the highest energy efficieny ratings in cold climates. I think it will come down to the wet test, the dealer, and the price (probably in that order). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 well the whole energy thing is a huge minus for me - so thanks for letting me know about their high Anyway - I think they are all good tubs, and Artic does have one of the highest energy efficieny ratings in cold climates. I think it will come down to the wet test, the dealer, and the price (probably in that order). If you would like to match or surpass Arctics energy rating with any other high quality brand.....get a cover upgade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ps558 Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 well the whole energy thing is a huge minus for me - so thanks for letting me know about their high energy consumption. I'm going down with my wife to check out Sundance, Hotsprings, and Artic on sunday (wet testing). Talked to the sundance guy for a while on the phone - nice guy, I think he was biting his tongue quite a bit trying not to bash the Artic tubs. He felt HS and Sundance were a lot more comparable. He was adament that full foam was the way to go - interesting, he pointed out that the highly touted technology where "the pump keeps the dead air space warm" doesn't make sense because a)the energy has to come from somewhere, so how much longer does the pump have to run to create the extra heat, and now you've got a pump that is running in a heated air space (say 104 degrees), which isn't condusive to longevity. I guess that makes sense to a point - you have to cool down a motor to have it run more efficiently and last longer (usually passive/venting). Anyway - I think they are all good tubs, and Artic does have one of the highest energy efficieny ratings in cold climates. I think it will come down to the wet test, the dealer, and the price (probably in that order). Pump heat is exhaust to the outside in a full foam spa, there is no were else for it to go. If the spa uses a circulator pump there is no pump heat. If uses one of the main jet pumps to filter and heat then the pump can give off heat. It must well built spa for the open area to retain the heat, just like artic and Maax does Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spatech (the unreal one) Posted January 10, 2009 Report Share Posted January 10, 2009 Pump heat is exhaust to the outside in a full foam spa, there is no were else for it to go. If the spa uses a circulator pump there is no pump heat. If uses one of the main jet pumps to filter and heat then the pump can give off heat. It must well built spa for the open area to retain the heat, just like artic and Maax does That is not entirely true. When the pump is on it exhausts heat. At that time the pumps is pumping water to the jets and that water draws in air. Some full foam spas will simply have the air draw at the pump exhaust so that hot air goes into the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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